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Lens experts, where is the QC with Canon

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noname_guy said:
most people who
buy an L lense are probably out taking photos and not spending alot
of time in forums
Click to expand...
Well it's too dark to take photos now and anyway my only lens (a week old) has stopped working properly - 400 5.6.

What's worse is that I'm expecting two "L" lenses to arrive on Monday. After reading all the "bitching" (sic) in this thread I'm resigned to them both being lemons COL (crying out loud)

Why didn't I stick with Leica?
 
Let's do the math:

Canon "expected" quality level: 20ppm
Average lens experience : 10 lenses/user (which is a lot it we talk average)

That means each customer has 200 ppm possibility to have one bad lens from the shop. That means every 5 000th customer is expected to have at least one bad experience with newly bought Canon lenses.

Bringing the math further, having had at least 20 different user complain about bad experiences in this forum means at least 1 000 000 users are engaged in this forum here. Now DPReview/Canon SLR Lens talk forum is a hell of a good forum, but 1 000 000 users only in this forum would be an exaggeration.... Then perhaps the original 20ppm assumption was wrong....
 
I've had no problems with any Canon lens or body so far.
My Nikon 28-70 f2.8 stops focusing occasionally and I have to turn
the camera off and on again.

These are complex machines.
Thank goodness they all work better than any version of Windows.

maljo
 
PhotoTom said:
I do hope that people are doing something a little more
accurate than taking a picture of a lone ruler or scale at a
45-degree angle and calling it adequate.
Click to expand...
After a long search of the archive I understand the reference! I can't, on the other hand, find any "adequate" test referred to. There are "sharpness" tests but they are not, really, the same thing are they? Any links/suggestions?

After this thread I'm scared to death my lenses are not as good as they could be - I know ignorance may be bliss but I'd still like the best "version" available! And "... but if you've been happy with them so far ..." doesn't really do it!
 
I have just taken delivery of my 2nd 70-200mm f4L. It again back focuses. i have run multiple tests today and the only thing that is consistent about the focus is that is focuses behind the subject.

I tried photographing my nievce giving my son a piggy back. i focussed on her and he was always in focus she was not (maybe it's telling me something)

I lined up three stones on top of a pillar at 5.6 and it picked out the back stone.

I guess I'll be calling 17th Photo on Monday - they've been great BTW

Rob
jonmatd said:
After returning two 100-400L IS lenses to my dealer I decided to
keep the third because it was the best of the bunch. After trying
to shoot the moon with this third version I just returned it to
Canon but this time with my 1D. If the 1D wont focus it, it can't
be focused. This is really getting annoying. I have a Rebel also
and sold my 10D. BTW, the Rebel is a great camera for the money
and is virtually faultless from a QC standpoint.

I now have been to Canon four times and returned seven lenses to my
dealer in the last year for poor focusing. Both of the 24-70L's I
had were back focusing. The 70-200L IS is great but it is the
second one. The best zoom lens I have and the only one that has
focused correctly from day one is the 28-135 IS. I'm not counting
the standard primes whch work beautifully (50, 1.8, etc.) I'm not
starving to enjoy my hobby but this is ridiculous and I think is a
lot more common than we want to admit. Do they think we should
invest in a 500 or 600 mm prime to get a lens that works as
advertised. Even then you can be fooled.

For any record lovers out there the analogy to turntables is very
clear. The first thing a turntable has to do is rotate at the
right speed, everything else is secondary and can only make the
musical presentation better if done correctly. The first thing a
lens and camera have to do is focus. That is job number one
because it is irrelevant if you get the shutter or aperture or
exposure right if the focus is off.

My D70 and 80-400VR shot the moon without a whimper and the
pictures are crystal clear. The D70 is not even half the camera
the 1D is yet the combination of Nikor lenses and D70 produce
beautiful clear prints and great 100% crops. I know I'm not alone
here, Canon has to tighten up the QC. These are not cheap lenses.
I bought the D70 as a great walk around for my son and I wind up
using it much more than I should.

BTW, just got the 18-125 Sigma for the D70 (wanted one for the
Rebel but the few I tried were just not focusing right.) and it
works beautifully. Very sharp and contrasty with good color. A
really amazing walk around lens at a great price.

HW
Click to expand...
 
In the other forums I am hearing a pretty similar things. Focus issues and other QC stuff.

I know from my experiance I have had no QC probleems yet with my Canon stuff. I use both the D60 and the 1D at home. My 100-400 L IS focused correct from the get-go, although mine does seem to be one of those that gets a little soft beyond about 370mm or so. Since I had seen this in a few post by other people I figured it was just an undesirable feature of the lens. Both of my 70-200 L's focused correct, the f4 and the f2.8 IS. The 17-40 f4 L focuses correctly also, as does the 28-135 IS, and several other lenses I have, Sigma and Canon. Not one of them repeatably backfocuses.

On the other hand, I use Nikon at work, the D100 and the D1x with a few different lenses. The D100 consistantly back focused with the 80-400 ED VR, particularly in close. Nikon did not want the lens (unlike what Canon seems to do) but instead wanted the D100. This makes sense, as the lens seems to focus fine on the D1x. The D100 has been back to Nikon twice, it seems the last trip did the trick, it focuses the 80-400 ED VR fine now. But, recently we have notice that the Nikkor 28-200 we have used for a couple of years seems to be back focusing on the D1x on the short end of the zoom. Looking back at some pictures from right after we got the lens shows they are indeed "soft" at the short end, and it looks as if the lens has always back focused slightly.

I believe that Canon is not alone in this issue, but I agree, it is a shame that so many high end lenses seem to have problems. One really has to wonder what is the percentage. Are we seeing a very vocal minority on these forums? Or, is the percentage actually very high? Anything higher than something like 1 in a thousand with any kind of problem would be bad I would think, very bad. Remember how low volume these L lenses probably are, this would not yield more than a few hundred bad lenses a year at worst case. It seems unacceptable to me, but I wonder what Canons line on this is?

T!
 
I wonder if you have so much focusing problem with so many lenses..if it is not your camera that has a focusing problem instead. If only one lens focus ok with that camera..then something might be wrong with the camera instead.
jonmatd said:
After returning two 100-400L IS lenses to my dealer I decided to
keep the third because it was the best of the bunch. After trying
to shoot the moon with this third version I just returned it to
Canon but this time with my 1D. If the 1D wont focus it, it can't
be focused. This is really getting annoying. I have a Rebel also
and sold my 10D. BTW, the Rebel is a great camera for the money
and is virtually faultless from a QC standpoint.

I now have been to Canon four times and returned seven lenses to my
dealer in the last year for poor focusing. Both of the 24-70L's I
had were back focusing. The 70-200L IS is great but it is the
second one. The best zoom lens I have and the only one that has
focused correctly from day one is the 28-135 IS. I'm not counting
the standard primes whch work beautifully (50, 1.8, etc.) I'm not
starving to enjoy my hobby but this is ridiculous and I think is a
lot more common than we want to admit. Do they think we should
invest in a 500 or 600 mm prime to get a lens that works as
advertised. Even then you can be fooled.

For any record lovers out there the analogy to turntables is very
clear. The first thing a turntable has to do is rotate at the
right speed, everything else is secondary and can only make the
musical presentation better if done correctly. The first thing a
lens and camera have to do is focus. That is job number one
because it is irrelevant if you get the shutter or aperture or
exposure right if the focus is off.

My D70 and 80-400VR shot the moon without a whimper and the
pictures are crystal clear. The D70 is not even half the camera
the 1D is yet the combination of Nikor lenses and D70 produce
beautiful clear prints and great 100% crops. I know I'm not alone
here, Canon has to tighten up the QC. These are not cheap lenses.
I bought the D70 as a great walk around for my son and I wind up
using it much more than I should.

BTW, just got the 18-125 Sigma for the D70 (wanted one for the
Rebel but the few I tried were just not focusing right.) and it
works beautifully. Very sharp and contrasty with good color. A
really amazing walk around lens at a great price.

HW
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
BTW...Sigma is no better..

So far out of 5 lenses bought from Sigma, I had to return 4.

The more I read your post and the more I think that your camera has a problem.
Daniella said:
jonmatd said:
After returning two 100-400L IS lenses to my dealer I decided to
keep the third because it was the best of the bunch. After trying
to shoot the moon with this third version I just returned it to
Canon but this time with my 1D. If the 1D wont focus it, it can't
be focused. This is really getting annoying. I have a Rebel also
and sold my 10D. BTW, the Rebel is a great camera for the money
and is virtually faultless from a QC standpoint.

I now have been to Canon four times and returned seven lenses to my
dealer in the last year for poor focusing. Both of the 24-70L's I
had were back focusing. The 70-200L IS is great but it is the
second one. The best zoom lens I have and the only one that has
focused correctly from day one is the 28-135 IS. I'm not counting
the standard primes whch work beautifully (50, 1.8, etc.) I'm not
starving to enjoy my hobby but this is ridiculous and I think is a
lot more common than we want to admit. Do they think we should
invest in a 500 or 600 mm prime to get a lens that works as
advertised. Even then you can be fooled.

For any record lovers out there the analogy to turntables is very
clear. The first thing a turntable has to do is rotate at the
right speed, everything else is secondary and can only make the
musical presentation better if done correctly. The first thing a
lens and camera have to do is focus. That is job number one
because it is irrelevant if you get the shutter or aperture or
exposure right if the focus is off.

My D70 and 80-400VR shot the moon without a whimper and the
pictures are crystal clear. The D70 is not even half the camera
the 1D is yet the combination of Nikor lenses and D70 produce
beautiful clear prints and great 100% crops. I know I'm not alone
here, Canon has to tighten up the QC. These are not cheap lenses.
I bought the D70 as a great walk around for my son and I wind up
using it much more than I should.

BTW, just got the 18-125 Sigma for the D70 (wanted one for the
Rebel but the few I tried were just not focusing right.) and it
works beautifully. Very sharp and contrasty with good color. A
really amazing walk around lens at a great price.

HW
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
Click to expand...
--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel
 
Daniella said:
I wonder if you have so much focusing problem with so many
lenses..if it is not your camera that has a focusing problem
instead. If only one lens focus ok with that camera..then
something might be wrong with the camera instead.
Click to expand...
No argument Daniella and it's probably why Canon took the 1D with the 100-400L. I'll let everyone know if they succeed in correcting the problem or if they make the 1D-100-400L work perfectly and throw off my other L and regular lenses.

On a positive note I attached a 500D close up lens to my 100mm 2.0 and it has become a wonderful close up lens. Very sharp and the Rebel has no problem at all focusing it. Then again most of the primes I've used have focused beautifully, it's just the expensive zooms that seem to have all the problems in my case.

My wife and I went out for dinner and wound up spending the last two hours checking out the flowers at Home Depot and Stop and Shop. If you want to get great shots of very fresh flowering plants that's the way to do it and they keep them outside so no one is annoyed.

HW
 
I'm planning soon on a new higher quality lens (if some major financial calamity doesn't occur)..and what scares me, although I have only been on the forums here for a few months, is that a lot of the QC issues are being reported by forum regulars. I always thought that people who had problems were more vocal, and more noticed, but it's not so much that, as people who are very regular here, have had many issues with many brands, and many different lenses within those brands...and the people reporting them are very good photographers.
 
I had originally posted this about 3 months ago.

Just received a shipment from B&H. A brand new 70-200 2.8L IS and a brand new 24-70 2.8L. When I took off the front and back lens covers and held the lens up to the light of an outside window, gee gads.. a small black fleck at 4 O’clock living somewhere in the depths of the lens on one of the internal elements. I zoomed, I focused, I gave up. The bit of whatever, was there to stay. As a last effort, hoping that this was not the case I used a squeeze bulb blower to see if its position was an illusion. It’s not. Very disappointed I put it away in its box and opened the 24-70. Guess what. When I looked through this one I saw a flaw, albeit tiny, at about 7 O’clock. Unlike the more gross black fleck it its big brother, this seems to be a chip or bubble on one of the internal elements of the lens. It may not have a significant impact on image quality, or it might if it caught the light just right. What gives. I had only but to look, and the problems were obviously immediately. Where was quality control. A final inspection. Have any of you ever had a similar experience? 3 grand worth of glass, and they both have to go back. I think I will try and return them to B&H in person and inspect their replacements before I leave the store. Very disappointed in Canon. Shame on them to have let either of these “pro” lenses leave the factory.
 
searching said:
I agree with you 100%. I have a 50mm 1.8 II in for repairs right
now. It front focuses terribly. Way off. Also when I bought it,
it had dust on the lens. I also returned a 70-300 which also had
dust in the middle of the lens.

Anyone buying a 24-70L should have absolutely no problems with it.
C'mon its $2500 Canadian. Imagine coming home with it and finding
out its not working properly and then having to deal with Canon
service centre. My 50mm had been in for two weeks now. Its been
back three times.

I read way to many complaints on this issue. Are they all user
problems?
Click to expand...
I just returned a 100-400L that had what appeared to be small chips of paint behind the objective lense. It appeaered to be a sharp copy but I just don't think that a $1500.00 lense should have this type of defect. The store replaced it and I haven't tried the new one yet, I only hope it is as sharp as the defective one.
--
Please visit my gallery at: http://www.msnusers.com/RWSSRImages
 
When I took off the front and back lens
Sisyphus said:
covers and held the lens up to the light of an outside window, gee
gads.. a small black fleck at 4 O’clock living somewhere in the
depths of the lens on one of the internal elements.
Click to expand...
Just like the lense hood, the longer barrel sections of the lense has a coating of flocking inside. (Page 181-182 of Lense Works III) As we know from the hood, that flocking can sometimes come off. That speck most likely came off after the lense left the factory. (During shipping, etc.) Some of my lense which didn't have the speck when I got the lense, now have one. I have never been able to find it making any difference in the quality of the picture.
 
Wm. Bates said:
A friend of mine purchased a Nikon D70 and his first copy was DOA.
It would not recognize any brand of card. We looked carefully and
no bent pins. It was promptly replaced by the local dealer.
Click to expand...
The first 300D I tried to buy went Err99 after 2 shots, so the QC on the bodies is not perfect from Canon either.

I think the original post is about the bad quality control of lenses, and it seems like all the manufacturers we see in the Canon forums are having "problems" (of their own making!). I handled a Nikon D70 and the kit lens on it seemed much better quality in terms of build than the Canon kit lens, the Tamron 28-75 I have, and the 28-135 IS I played with. Focus speed was lighting fast, and the manual focus was very neat, the focus ring was geared down so you could get very accurate focus.

Cheers,

Indulis
 
jonmatd said:
After returning two 100-400L IS lenses to my dealer I decided to
keep the third because it was the best of the bunch. After trying
to shoot the moon with this third version I just returned it to
Canon but this time with my 1D. If the 1D wont focus it, it can't
be focused. This is really getting annoying. I have a Rebel also
and sold my 10D. BTW, the Rebel is a great camera for the money
and is virtually faultless from a QC standpoint.

I now have been to Canon four times and returned seven lenses to my
dealer in the last year for poor focusing. Both of the 24-70L's I
had were back focusing. The 70-200L IS is great but it is the
second one. The best zoom lens I have and the only one that has
focused correctly from day one is the 28-135 IS. I'm not counting
the standard primes whch work beautifully (50, 1.8, etc.) I'm not
starving to enjoy my hobby but this is ridiculous and I think is a
lot more common than we want to admit. Do they think we should
invest in a 500 or 600 mm prime to get a lens that works as
advertised. Even then you can be fooled.

For any record lovers out there the analogy to turntables is very
clear. The first thing a turntable has to do is rotate at the
right speed, everything else is secondary and can only make the
musical presentation better if done correctly. The first thing a
lens and camera have to do is focus. That is job number one
because it is irrelevant if you get the shutter or aperture or
exposure right if the focus is off.

My D70 and 80-400VR shot the moon without a whimper and the
pictures are crystal clear. The D70 is not even half the camera
the 1D is yet the combination of Nikor lenses and D70 produce
beautiful clear prints and great 100% crops. I know I'm not alone
here, Canon has to tighten up the QC. These are not cheap lenses.
I bought the D70 as a great walk around for my son and I wind up
using it much more than I should.

BTW, just got the 18-125 Sigma for the D70 (wanted one for the
Rebel but the few I tried were just not focusing right.) and it
works beautifully. Very sharp and contrasty with good color. A
really amazing walk around lens at a great price.

HW
Click to expand...
--

max...the only problem i have had with canon lenses has been the lens hood ring on my 24-70 falling off, and a 16-35 that is nowhere near as good as my 17-40. otherwise no problems with over 25 different lenses, 18 of which i still own.
 
noname_guy said:
noname_guy said:
covers and held the lens up to the light of an outside window, gee
gads.. a small black fleck at 4 O’clock living somewhere in the
depths of the lens on one of the internal elements.
Click to expand...
Just like the lense hood, the longer barrel sections of the lense
has a coating of flocking inside. (Page 181-182 of Lense Works III)
As we know from the hood, that flocking can sometimes come off.
That speck most likely came off after the lense left the factory.
(During shipping, etc.) Some of my lense which didn't have the
speck when I got the lense, now have one. I have never been able to
find it making any difference in the quality of the picture.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Indeed, although my lens had been blocked by a bit of flock, it has shifted and I am no longer mifted. Perhaps it will reappear, but I will not live in dread, because of what you wrote, and what I read.
 
Sage said:
I own a Canon 300D which works very well. However, most of my lens
have been sent to Canon for repair for focuisng issues (i.e., back
focus). Here is my list:

85mm - repaired on first attempt to fix back focus
70-200 F4 - repaired on first attempt to fixr back focus
24-70 - returned 2 copies to dealer. One for backfocus problems,
one for softness at 24mm
24-70 - sent 3rd copy to Canon for 2 repair attempts. It took Canon
2 attempts to fix it. Now it works great.
17-40 - Currently at the Canon repair facility for 2nd attempt to
fix focus probems at 17mm.

My other Canon lens are fine. No problems at all. They are 50mm 1.8
and 100-400mm.
Click to expand...
6 types of lenses, 8 returns. I thought Canon quality was pretty bad but your story goes beyond my wildest imagination. Did you buy your lenses from the same dealer?
 
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