A-85 is finally here...but is it accurate?

coppertop · Jul 21, 2004

Dave-57 said:
The differences:
Focal Length :
7.8 – 23.4 mm (35mm film equivalent: 38 – 114mm) (A80)
5.4 – 16.2 mm (35mm film equivalent: 35 – 105mm) (A85=better)

O.K. show me the person who can tell the difference between 38mm and 35mm or 114mm and 105mm.... The difference doesn't mean squat.

Dave-57 said:
Maximum f/number :
f/2.8 – f/4.9 (A80)
f/2.8 – f/4.8 (A85=better)

0.1 difference? This makes the A85 Better? You've got to be kidding me. Wonder how much more light is necessary to shoot a picture at f/4.9 instead of f/4.8? My guess... not enough to make the light meter to think about budging...

Dave-57 said:
Construction :
6 elements in 5 groups (2 aspherical elements) (A80)
9 elements in 7 groups (1 aspherical element) (A85=better)

Someone else has already pointed this out but it does deserve repeating. Given the same quality of glass fewer groups produce sharper, clearer, better quality images.

Dave-57 said:
Monitor :
Vari-angle 1.5" TFT (A80)
1.8” P-Si TFT, approx. 118,000 pixels (A85=maybe not better)

A80=rotating, flip LCD; A85=fixed LCD. A80 LCD offers more angles to shoot at, when not in use the LCD can be closed inward to protect the screen. Curious about the notation about the pixels....who depends on the LCD to determine total image quality? I can see the LCD to help determine cropping, focus, maybe lighting, but color saturation?

Dave-57 said:
Movies :
(M)320 x 240, (S)160 x 120 (A80)
(L)640 x 480, 10fps (M)320 x 240, (S)160 x 120, 15fps (A85=better)

You want better movies? Buy a camcorder, not a digital camera.

Dave-57 said:
PictBridge :
Supported (A80? is that a yes or no!)
Yes (A85)

Ummmm.... who uses pictbridge?

Dave-57 said:
Lenses :
1.75x Tele-converter TC-DC52A,0.7x Wide Converter WC-DC52,Close-up
Lens 250D (52mm),Conversion Lens Adapter LA-DC52D (A80)
Tele-converter 2.4x TC-DC52,Wide Converter 0.7x WC-DC52,Close-up
Lens 250D (52mm),Conversion Lens Adapter LA-DC52C (A85=better?)

Don't like add-on lenses, so I can't comment with any reliability.

Dave-57 said:
Dimensions :
103.1 x 64.6 x 34.7 mm (A80)
101.0 x 64.0 x 31.5mm (excluding protrusions) (A85=better!)

Weight (body only) :
Approx. 250g (A80)
Approx. 200g (A85)

WHere is the significant difference? Where is the overwhelming size and weight difference that makes the A85 so much better? Judging camera's solely on size and weight the S410 blows the A80 out of the water. Just don't see an overwhelming difference to sell me on the A85 over the A80.

I would buy into the postition that the A85 is slightly better in some areas than the A80. That some of the differences are so insignificant no to make one camera better than the other. Unfortunately your argument lacks the credibility to support your position and is somewhat decieving with all the statistical data you clutter it with.

Dave-57 said:
David

booth99 · Jul 21, 2004

Funny, my S1 was made in Japan, is well built, and takes good pictures. I don't want to lug around a DSLR. I am sure the cheap cameras will work fine for most people and will not be considered a waste of money to them.

namdang2004 said:
Any reason why Canon can not put 5 MP in the new Canon A85. I
still had the two old Canon A20 and S30, made in Japan and took
nice pictures. Excep the expensive SLR as D10D, most of recently
point and shoot camera as Pro1, S1, S60 were not very well made and
some were assembled in China. What I suggest is to continue to use
the whatever camera you have. I khew someone upgraded from G3 to
G5 (4MP to 5MP) - not worth it. In facts, G3 had a overall better
review than G5. even with lower MP. I you want to take a nice and
detailed picture, go for a at least Rebel 300D or 10D or Nikon
D70. Do not waist your money on cheap cameras. They do not work.

Nam Dang

Luppapa · Jul 22, 2004

Yes. But many people won't notice the smaller senzor in the A85 (than the A80) only the bigger LCD. I think Canon knows this well. If I wouldn't have a camera at all and would consider buying the A75 or the A85 I would go for the A75 because of better image quality (senzor-megapixel).

But, again, most of the people do not know this relation and don't care it at all, just watching the numbers.

sueanne said:
I will wait for the A90 or whatever but still hang on to my A80
cause it ROCKS!!

sue anne
--------------------------------------

Luppapa said:

absurd_username said:

The News Release of the A85 is somewhat confusing...

"Canon has today announced the PowerShot A85 a replacement to the
entry-level PowerShot A70"

-Did Canon forget they produced an A75?

"The A85 remains a four megapixel"

-The A70/75 was 3.2mp.

The designation of A85 implies that it's a higher grade cam than an
A80...but 4mp on a 1/2.7 CCD is more of a downgrade from A80's 4mp
on a 1/1.8 CCD.

This can't possibly an actual news release from Canon, but some
elaborate hoax???

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Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Robbiee · Jul 22, 2004

When is the A90 due for release?

sueanne said:
I will wait for the A90 or whatever but still hang on to my A80
cause it ROCKS!!

sue anne
--------------------------------------

Luppapa said:

absurd_username said:

The News Release of the A85 is somewhat confusing...

"Canon has today announced the PowerShot A85 a replacement to the
entry-level PowerShot A70"

-Did Canon forget they produced an A75?

"The A85 remains a four megapixel"

-The A70/75 was 3.2mp.

The designation of A85 implies that it's a higher grade cam than an
A80...but 4mp on a 1/2.7 CCD is more of a downgrade from A80's 4mp
on a 1/1.8 CCD.

This can't possibly an actual news release from Canon, but some
elaborate hoax???

--
My G3 Pictures
http://www.pbase.com/absurd_username

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

majfive · Jul 22, 2004

coppertop said:
O.K. show me the person who can tell the difference between 38mm
and 35mm or 114mm and 105mm.... The difference doesn't mean squat.

I just had to laugh when I read this statement, because it makes a difference on the 35mm vs 38mm end of the lense when you are taking group shots. Those of us with the 35 lense can get more in the shot.

I think of this everytime us parents are doing team pictures after a game. I get to be in the front center taking pictures because I can be closer than most of the others. (I am vertically challenged and that is always important to me)

.

WChu · Jul 22, 2004

Digital cameras are not cheap these days. I can buy a refrigerator for the price of some digicam. they would be REALLY cheap when pictures taken in a camera phone rival those by dslr today and nobody would care to talk about photo quality anymore then grocery shopping in the future. Ten year from now?

namdang2004 said:
Any reason why Canon can not put 5 MP in the new Canon A85. I
still had the two old Canon A20 and S30, made in Japan and took
nice pictures. Excep the expensive SLR as D10D, most of recently
point and shoot camera as Pro1, S1, S60 were not very well made and
some were assembled in China. What I suggest is to continue to use
the whatever camera you have. I khew someone upgraded from G3 to
G5 (4MP to 5MP) - not worth it. In facts, G3 had a overall better
review than G5. even with lower MP. I you want to take a nice and
detailed picture, go for a at least Rebel 300D or 10D or Nikon
D70. Do not waist your money on cheap cameras. They do not work.

Nam Dang

absurd_username · Jul 22, 2004

DavidMaven said:
DavidMaven said:

The designation of A85 implies that it's a higher grade cam than an
A80...but 4mp on a 1/2.7 CCD is more of a downgrade from A80's 4mp
on a 1/1.8 CCD.

Click to expand...

By your reasoning, the 10D is a "higher grade" than the 1Ds.
--
[email protected]

You misunderstood me...I was questioning the designation of A85 to this cam...I was unsure as to the accuracy of the information given in the news release. In my original thread, I found the news release to me a mix of conflicting information...

'replacing the A70' -what happened to the A75?'
'remains 4mp' -the camera(s) it's replacing is a 3.2mp cam.

According to this poster, Canon's own numbering designation doesn't automatically mean a higher grade of camera over the lower numbers...A10/20 to A30/40 etc. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=9605503 .

I can accept that...if Canon had released this cam as an A90 and an update to the A80 as an A100. Calling it an A85 is a designation that IMPLIES it belongs in the '80 series' calibre of camera...which it doesn't seem to...and I was trying to convey that with information about sensor sizing.

Why do we suddenly see this camera so soon after the A75? The A75 kind of told us that an update to the A80...probably going to be an A85 based on the release of an A75.

Canon's new '75' and '85' numbering games are misleading marketing now.

We all could be wrong and this new 4mp 1/2.7" CCD may be a gem of a sensor...but there's nothing in the news release about better sensor technology...and we all know how many feel about the G3/5, S400/500 'upgrades'.

Reviews and comparisons of the cam will tell.

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Forbes · Jul 22, 2004

one of the rare "Canon Classics." A80 is without a doubt a gem, and if its successor is not as much of a camera (time will tell) then it may become more sought after as production winds down. So far no regrets that I got mine.

Don F.

akpinar said:
Canon says on Bebit site:
"PowerShot A85 is the follow-on model of PowerShot A75.

Main enhancements from the PowerShot A75 are as follows;

Equipped with an approximately 4.0 megapixel CCD

Digital zoom magnification has increased to approximately 3.6

times, and up to approximately up to 11 times when combined with
optical zoom

Other specifications are the same as with the PowerShot A75"

So it is not a follow-on model of A80. Very confusing naming.
Actually A85 is lower grade camera than an A80.

Bulent Akpinar
http://bulent-akpinar.fotopic.net

--
http://www.DForbesRowanPhotos.OrangeCountyandSurrounding.PhotoShare.co.nz
A-Eighty: It's a really neat camera, even if it's not black.

Gee-Five: What a fine camera, too, with some great features -- and it's black!
(There! Now I can't be accused of harming newbie camera searches).
D. F. R.

Stephen88603 · Jul 23, 2004

WChu said:
namdang2004 said:

Any reason why Canon can not put 5 MP in the new Canon A85. I
still had the two old Canon A20 and S30, made in Japan and took
nice pictures. Excep the expensive SLR as D10D, most of recently
point and shoot camera as Pro1, S1, S60 were not very well made and
some were assembled in China. What I suggest is to continue to use
the whatever camera you have. I khew someone upgraded from G3 to
G5 (4MP to 5MP) - not worth it. In facts, G3 had a overall better
review than G5. even with lower MP. I you want to take a nice and
detailed picture, go for a at least Rebel 300D or 10D or Nikon
D70. Do not waist your money on cheap cameras. They do not work.

Nam Dang

Click to expand...

The prove in the pudding is in eating, and I guess we have to wait and see how good this 4mp on a 1/27 sensor is with regards to picture quality.

Perhaps Canon has developed new technology in picture quality on a smaller sensor.

However I fear that the rat race is getting out of hand in trying to produce cheaper cameras at the expense of picture quality.

I few weeks ago I did a stupid mistake of getting a Nikon coolpix 4100 which is 4mp on sensor size1/25 , must say the picture quality was very poor when compared to my previous coolpix 3100

I only hope Canon will retain its superior picture quality in these new cameras

Only difference between A75 and A85 is 4mp we have to see its results before we jude it , but I'm not too impressed yet.

Frank G · Jul 23, 2004

I think I understand what you mean. In reality I think that Canon is going through growing pains with fierce competition and price point issues and shifting manufacturing, materials, and designs to reduce cost.

I don't think we would be happy to get an A70 that looked and was built differently with different specs than an older A70. So Canon must come up with all of these model numbers to make it clear the cameras are not exactly the same even though they may be similar.

It is like the megapixel game that manufacturers are luring people with. Many of the sub $500 6 megapixel cameras are not that great. Some have lenses that don't support the resolution of the CCD. Or the CCDs are substandard themselves.

I think one thing that Canon will not do is mismatch sesors and CCDs.

A lot of stupid reviewers for the magazines knock the S1 because it has high end features with only a 3 megapixel sensor.

The lens will not support a 4 mp I don't think. It is not a mismatch -- it is a perfect match and Canon should be respected for delivering this inherent balanced quality.

Some of these 6 mp sensors are coupled with poor lenses an eletronics. We know these cameras. Prints up to 20"x30" -- yeah right -- at what quality?

Caveat Emtor

Andy Somnifacient said:
andyisgod said:

It's less a camera than A80, but more than A75/A70. Frankly, there
is not much difference between all these models, I don't see why
Canon do this.

Click to expand...

My guess is because X ammount of a model are made, and when X
ammount of that model are sold, there aren't any left. Thus, they
need to supply the demand for the product.

--
Andy
http://www.somnifacient.us

I'm not vain enough to think that people care what equipment I use
or that my equipment makes me who I am.

absurd_username · Jul 23, 2004

Stephen said:
Perhaps Canon has developed new technology in picture quality on a
smaller sensor.

You'd think that they would make some kind of fuss about 'new and improved' sensor technology in their press release.

With Canon's (and several other manufacturer's) history of stuffing more MP into old sensor real estate, I figure IQ of this new cam is going to be noisier than the A70/75...and future A90(?) should that cam go to a 5mp.

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Mark B. · Jul 23, 2004

If you follow the link to the Canon announcement, their web site says it is an upgrade to the A75. I've pointed this out in several threads, it's still not corrected in Phil's article.

Mark

absurd_username said:
The News Release of the A85 is somewhat confusing...

"Canon has today announced the PowerShot A85 a replacement to the
entry-level PowerShot A70"

-Did Canon forget they produced an A75?

"The A85 remains a four megapixel"

-The A70/75 was 3.2mp.

The designation of A85 implies that it's a higher grade cam than an
A80...but 4mp on a 1/2.7 CCD is more of a downgrade from A80's 4mp
on a 1/1.8 CCD.

This can't possibly an actual news release from Canon, but some
elaborate hoax???

--
My G3 Pictures
http://www.pbase.com/absurd_username

absurd_username · Jul 23, 2004

Mark B. said:
If you follow the link to the Canon announcement, their web site
says it is an upgrade to the A75. I've pointed this out in several
threads, it's still not corrected in Phil's article.

Mark

I think that the information in the News release came directly from Mogens Jensen, Head of Canon Consumer Imaging Europe. It may be up to them to officially release an amendment to their previous statements.

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Dogger Blue · Jul 23, 2004

absurd_username said:
Mark B. said:

If you follow the link to the Canon announcement, their web site
says it is an upgrade to the A75. I've pointed this out in several
threads, it's still not corrected in Phil's article.

Mark

Click to expand...

I think that the information in the News release came directly from
Mogens Jensen, Head of Canon Consumer Imaging Europe. It may be up
to them to officially release an amendment to their previous
statements.

I doubt they'll bother. News releases get stale and do not undergo minor corrections. Info on a company's web site is kept fresh and is usually considered the official word. It's an upgrade to the A75, according to the website and to common sense. To state anything else is to propagate a clearly absurd claim. Is the Pentium IV an upgrade to the Pentium II? Nope, and it wouldn't matter what any news release said, that claim shouldn't be repeated as fact.

Dogger Blue · Jul 23, 2004

Another thing I'd like to point out: comparing the A85 to the A70 sounds a lot more impressive than comparing it to the A75. According the Canon's website, there is only one difference of any importance between the A85 and the A75: 4 MP vs. 3.2 MP. Listing it as an upgrade to the A70 allows them to list the slew of features the A75 provides as "new". So I doubt that this was unintentional; but it's still dead wrong, and pure marketing fluff, and should NOT be repeated as fact by a review site.

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A-85 is finally here...but is it accurate?

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