Olympus E-1 or Canon 10D ?

Yes it will, maybe sooner. 11 days sooner. Thanks, Jim

dgrogers said:

JM Porter said:

Kevin Barrett said:

A launch this early makes sense, as it would give Oly ample time to
ramp up production for the holiday season. The pro-sumer C5050z was
launched in Aug of 2002 with general availability around November.
So their is a precedent for this timetable

I'm guessing that a dust removal system and weather protection etc.
will not be included in their pro-sumer body. However, I'm sure
performance will be class leading and I believe Oly will maintain a
metal body as another differentiator from Canon and Nikon.

Again, pure speculation on my part.... I'm curious to see if I'm
even close or most likely, I'm all wet and it's Canon's
announcement of the 10D MkII!

Either way, it shall be an interesting holiday season...

James Pilcher said:

JM Porter said:

11 days to blast off.

Click to expand...

--
Intrigued,

Jim

'The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without
a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange

Click to expand...

--
Kevin Barrett
Lowell, MI

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
dgrogers

http://www.pbase.com/drog

Click to expand...

Chris Charlton said:

I have a 10D but I have considered jumping ship to the E1, I only
have two canon lenses so it would not be a big issue for me.

Pros for the Canon IMO:

For me it boils down to a couple of things, one is that canon has a
better future as far as upgrades, I can upgrade to the 10DmkII
(soon) a 1DmkII or a 1Ds if I want to in the future and I can keep
the same lenses I have now.
The other thing is noise, the 10D has superior noise at higher
ISO's which really makes a difference in certain circumstances, I
like being able to crank up the sensitivity without suffering too
much.

Cons for 10D:

Weight, big difference to E1.

Wide angle options, I have 17mm zoom which gives me 27mm FOV
(compared with 35mm film), if I want to go wider than 27mm its $$$
and the quality may not be that good.

Pros for E1:

Body sealing and quality, the E1 beats the 10D, its clearly superior.

Weight, the E1 and lenses are certainly lighter than the equivalent
10D's.

Click to expand...

An E-1+14-55+50-200 weights 76.7 oz[no batteries].10D+17-40+70-300DO IS weights 71.2oz[no batts]Oly covers 28-400,Canon covers 27-480 ,speed identical due to C's lower noise sensor offsetting the faster Oly lens.. IS gives a 3 stop advantage in the tele range,too. Canon gives you the option!

The E-1 + 14-55 + 50-200 cost US$2794.95 (B&H pricing, $1795 + $999.95).

The 10D + 17-40 + 70-300 DO IS cost US$3347.95 (B&H pricing, $1399 + $649.95 + $1299).

The price difference is US$553. It is not a fair comparision.

bigmack said:

An E-1+14-55+50-200 weights 76.7 oz[no
batteries].10D+17-40+70-300DO IS weights 71.2oz[no batts]Oly covers
28-400,Canon covers 27-480 ,speed identical due to C's lower noise
sensor offsetting the faster Oly lens.. IS gives a 3 stop advantage
in the tele range,too. Canon gives you the option!

Click to expand...

--
Billy F
Hong Kong
Check equipment in profile

bigmack said:

bigmack wrote:
An E-1+14-55+50-200 weights 76.7 oz[no
batteries].10D+17-40+70-300DO IS weights 71.2oz[no batts]Oly covers
28-400,Canon covers 27-480 ,speed identical due to C's lower noise
sensor offsetting the faster Oly lens.. IS gives a 3 stop advantage
in the tele range,too. Canon gives you the option!

Click to expand...

But the zoom range of the E-1 is continuous, the Canon is missing 40-70 (64-122). You need to add in an extra Canon lens to fill that gap and IS is very overrated.

BTW I use an E-1 + 14-55 + 55 200 and a D60 + 17-40 + 50 1.4 + 70-200. The E-1 gets 60-70% use.
--
John W
No equipment worth talking about....!!!

I guess I'm all wet then... LOL!

My friends are moving to the E1... I'm still counting my pennies. I'm intrigued with the countdown

JM Porter said:

Kevin Barrett said:

A launch this early makes sense, as it would give Oly ample time to
ramp up production for the holiday season. The pro-sumer C5050z was
launched in Aug of 2002 with general availability around November.
So their is a precedent for this timetable

I'm guessing that a dust removal system and weather protection etc.
will not be included in their pro-sumer body. However, I'm sure
performance will be class leading and I believe Oly will maintain a
metal body as another differentiator from Canon and Nikon.

Again, pure speculation on my part.... I'm curious to see if I'm
even close or most likely, I'm all wet and it's Canon's
announcement of the 10D MkII!

Either way, it shall be an interesting holiday season...

James Pilcher said:

JM Porter said:

11 days to blast off.

Click to expand...

--
Intrigued,

Jim

'The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without
a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange

Click to expand...

--
Kevin Barrett
Lowell, MI

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Kevin Barrett
Lowell, MI

John W. said:

Member said:

bigmack wrote:
An E-1+14-55+50-200 weights 76.7 oz[no
batteries].10D+17-40+70-300DO IS weights 71.2oz[no batts]Oly covers
28-400,Canon covers 27-480 ,speed identical due to C's lower noise
sensor offsetting the faster Oly lens.. IS gives a 3 stop advantage
in the tele range,too. Canon gives you the option!

Click to expand...

But the zoom range of the E-1 is continuous, the Canon is missing
40-70 (64-122). You need to add in an extra Canon lens to fill that
gap and IS is very overrated.
BTW I use an E-1 + 14-55 + 55 200 and a D60 + 17-40 + 50 1.4 +
70-200. The E-1 gets 60-70% use.
--
John W
No equipment worth talking about....!!!

Click to expand...

Agree. The 40-70 (64-122) is very commonly used range and we should add another lens for comparison.
--
Billy F
Hong Kong
Check equipment in profile

Ray Thompson said:

Let's see, Olympus had the OM-1, then the OM-2, then the OM-3, then
the OM-4. So the next logical step would be an E-2. It may have an
8 megapixel imaging device, less noise, perhaps 2 to 8 fps shooting
(adjustable, naturally), a larger frame buffer allowing 24 frames,
continuous shooting as long as the button is held, and there is
space in the buffer, a picture is taken and as pictures are written
to the memory the shooting continues, multiple automatic programs
with priority given to aperture or shutter, complete flash
compensation where the flash level can be set to fractional levels
of what would be a proper flash exposure (dynamic fill flash), and
longer battery life with in-camera charging, a new off-camera flash
grip with all connections made where the grip attaches to the
camera (no more cables), one HV external pack can power the camera
and the flash, and fingerprint authorization so that if the owners
hand is not using the camera, it fails work, and perhaps On-Star
for theft protection.

Click to expand...

So this is your trial balloon, or what?

Gary Eickmeier

billyf said:

The E-1 + 14-55 + 50-200 cost US$2794.95 (B&H pricing, $1795 +
$999.95).
The 10D + 17-40 + 70-300 DO IS cost US$3347.95 (B&H pricing, $1399
+ $649.95 + $1299).

The price difference is US$553. It is not a fair comparision.

Click to expand...

The 10D is now $1299,difference is $453. 10D has built-in flash(like the hassy) for occasional fill,IS[If you don't have don't underrate it],80mm on the long end.And it's lighter.Good value!

Member said:

But the zoom range of the E-1 is continuous, the Canon is missing
40-70 (64-122). You need to add in an extra Canon lens to fill that
gap and IS is very overrated.

Click to expand...

The Canon is set-up is missing 64-112 not 122.It's 80mm longer on the long end;however. Add a 50/1.4[80mm] filling the middle and shoot candids[with fine bokeh] and in low-light conditions impossible {2-3 stops better] with the E-1.

Ask all those pro's using IS just how overrated it is,use it you won't want to lose it.You can't shoot the E-1 at higher shutter speeds[including the Oly lens speed advantage] than the 10D due to noise anyway.

bigmack said:

E-1 at higher shutter
speeds[including the Oly lens speed advantage] than the 10D due to
noise anyway.

Click to expand...

Wrong wrong wrong!!!! I can shoot at any ISO. Maybe a little more work to bring out the image but at least I don't have to worry about working on the images at lower ISO in PP like you do with the 10D. You know, me and I think I can speak for many here, are a little tired if you popping your head in here and talking down on the E-1. Sure the 10D may have some advantages over the E-1 (i.e. lower noise at higher ISO, IS) but you never seem to recognize the E-1 strong points over the 10D like, weatherproofing, sonic sensor cleaning, better dynamic range, less PP work, better focusing, better metering. I could go on. Don't get me wrong, the 10D is not a bad camera I just don't think it is as good as the E-1 IMHO. The E-1 is not even a year old and is already giving Canon a run for it's money. Oly has some issuse with the E-1 but in a year or two when they are solved then what will you have to say? Your Canon may turn into a big dinosaur in the not to distant future.

--
Tom
http://www.deltonalakes.com/galleries
Feel free to post your photos

Gary Eickmeier said:

Ray Thompson said:

Let's see, Olympus had the OM-1, then the OM-2, then the OM-3, then
the OM-4. So the next logical step would be an E-2. It may have an
8 megapixel imaging device, less noise, perhaps 2 to 8 fps shooting
(adjustable, naturally), a larger frame buffer allowing 24 frames,
continuous shooting as long as the button is held, and there is
space in the buffer, a picture is taken and as pictures are written
to the memory the shooting continues, multiple automatic programs
with priority given to aperture or shutter, complete flash
compensation where the flash level can be set to fractional levels
of what would be a proper flash exposure (dynamic fill flash), and
longer battery life with in-camera charging, a new off-camera flash
grip with all connections made where the grip attaches to the
camera (no more cables), one HV external pack can power the camera
and the flash, and fingerprint authorization so that if the owners
hand is not using the camera, it fails work, and perhaps On-Star
for theft protection.

Click to expand...

So this is your trial balloon, or what?

Gary Eickmeier

Click to expand...

No, just a wish list of some things I would like. If I had to prioritize I would eliminate the cables from the flash grip as they are annoying and look, well, ugly.

Then I would like to have the ability to give preference to shutter or aperture (user selectable) when in program mode.

Next I would like to have the batteries in the flash grip be used to augment the power for the camera the same as they do for the flash.

I could care less about 8 megapixels as that is nothing more than marketing hype.

--
RayT

bigmack said:

billyf said:

The E-1 + 14-55 + 50-200 cost US$2794.95 (B&H pricing, $1795 +
$999.95).
The 10D + 17-40 + 70-300 DO IS cost US$3347.95 (B&H pricing, $1399
+ $649.95 + $1299).

The price difference is US$553. It is not a fair comparision.

Click to expand...

The 10D is now $1299,difference is $453. 10D has built-in
flash(like the hassy) for occasional fill,IS[If you don't have
don't underrate it],80mm on the long end.And it's lighter.Good
value!

Click to expand...

Just missed one thing, a 40-70mm lens shoudl added to the 10D set to fill the zoom range gap. The closest one is the 24-70 2.8L which is US$1119.95 (from B&H price included rebate). Thus, the total price difference is US$1572.95 (US$ 453 + US$1119.95).

You may argue that the overlap between zoom range. Yes, all lens from Canon are targeted for 35mm FF camera. The 1.6 FOV make existing zoom lens range very strange.

Considering weight:

-E-1 660g (w/o battery)
-14-54mm 435g
-50-200mm 1070g
Total = 2165g

• 10D 790g (w/o battery)
• 17-40mm 500g
• 70-300mm 720g

Total = 2010g

• 24-70mm 950g

Total (include 24-70mm) = 2960g

--
Billy F
Hong Kong
Check equipment in profile

wayne said:

The E-1 uses lenses designed specifically for digital photography,
meaning that they are optimized for a flat sensor rather than the
curved film plane. The 10D uses film camera lenses which do not
focus properly on a flat sensor (the DR or 300D can use the EF-S
lenses, which in addition to their intrusion into the mirror box -
they cannot be used on a 10D - they are designed for the CMOS
sensor, thus back/front focus issues do not occur with this lens).

Click to expand...

I don't know where you got all this, but it's COMPLETELY untrue.

wayne58604 said:

With that said, there are the Sigma lenses which are specifically
designed for digital cameras, and might solve some focus issues
with the 10D.

Click to expand...

I doubt it.

wayne58604 said:

Oh, Canon does have plenty of lenses, but how many do you actually
need? The biggest reason to get a Canon DSLR is their CMOS sensor,
which in theory, is superior to the CCD sensors used in most other
digital cameras.

Click to expand...

In theory, CMOS are NOT superior to CCDs - the primary motivation for going CMOS was so that they could take advantage of normal semiconductor fabrication techniques and thereby drive down cost whilst driving up quality.

Adrian

dgrogers said:

So, the E-1 will be available for the same price as the 10D in 11
days.....

Click to expand...

Hmmm ... here in the UK the E-1 is already cheaper than the 10D - it has been since Oly reduced the price by £300 (to about £999 for the body) a couple of months ago.

mjcrowe said:

HI all.
I have had the E1 for 3 months now , It is a very good camera and
can hold it's own against the 10D .
On Saturday I went to Mallory Park to see the super bikes , The E1
handle well and the A/F was very good , then I tryed my mates 10D
with the EOS 300mm f4 L lens WOW what a nice lens very sharp and
quient as well .
What I would love to have is the E1 body and the EOS 300mm f4 L lens ,
this lens is only £900 and the OLY 50-200 is £700. There is only
£200 difference I have to admit that the EOS lens is a better lens
but the E1 is a better camera.
I do feel very tempted to buy the 10D just for the lense's but I
may just wait a little longer to see what OLY will bring out soon.
Mick

Click to expand...

Mick, I am in the opposite situation - I have a Canon 10D but for the last couple of months I have been toying with the idea of switching to the E-1 system because, in the short term, I like the specification of the E-1 body and, in the long-term, I am not happy with the direction in which Canon appear to be moving (ie. towards full-frame 35mm sized sensors which I consider to be totally unnecessary in the digital world - they are slaves to an old film standard that is no longer relevant).

I played with an E-1 for the first time last Friday (in a shop) and was very impressed with its handling, build quality, AF speed, etc. The one big thing that is stopping me upgrading to the E-1 from the 10D is the lack of a decent telephoto lens at a sensible price. At present my favourite lens is the Canon 100-400 mm f4.5/5.6 IS L. Olympus should prioritize producing a sensibly priced 300mm f4 prime or a 100-300mm f4 telephoto zoom or similar (preferably with IS).

Terry.

wayne said:

The E-1 uses lenses designed specifically for digital photography,
meaning that they are optimized for a flat sensor rather than the
curved film plane.

Click to expand...

First, I will reluctantly admit that the sensor in the Oly E-1 is flat. But, I always though film was held as flat as possible because the lenses were designed to project an image onto a 2-dimensional plane. That film pressure plate in the back of my EOS-1 looks damn flat to me.

--
Regards,

Jim

'The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange

bigmack said:

Ask all those pro's using IS just how overrated it is,use it you
won't want to lose it.

Click to expand...

I've been using a Canon 10D with three IS lenses for the previous 15 months and I agree that it is very nice to have - I would certainly miss it were I to move away from Canon. However, it is a double-edged sword in that it is very easy to be complacent and use very low shutter speeds (thanks to the IS) that are insufficient to freeze subject motion. You end up with nice sharp backgrounds (no handshake blur) but blurred subjects. So, like any tool, IS must be used with care and discipline. And it is no advantage when dealing with fast moving subjects. Given the choice between adding IS to a lens or increasing its maximum aperture to allow faster shutter speeds to be used in general the latter is preferable since it accommodates both handshake blur and subject motion.

bigmack said:

You can't shoot the E-1 at higher shutter
speeds[including the Oly lens speed advantage] than the 10D due to
noise anyway.

Click to expand...

I cannot agree with this. I often shoot my 10D at ISO 1600 and the images are pretty good but far from perfect. Moreover, I have no doubt that E-1 image noise is grossly exaggerated, based upon the images and tests that I have seen on the web and in magazines, and last Friday I played with an E-1 for the first time and took a few shots at high ISO on my CF card. When I examined the images at home they were not significantly worse than 10D images at ISO 800 in terms of noise.

Further, there are factors other than noise to consider at high ISO - some DSLRs keep noise under control but the images loose colour saturation and/or contrast and/or sharpness. In these other respects high ISO images from the E-1 are some of the best - they retain colour saturation, contrast and sharpness very well (indeed because of this one UK magazine ("Digital Photo") which performed a comparative test of most of the current DSLRs rated the E-1 as being one of the best performers at ISO 3200!). I suspect that this is the reason why, by my subjective judgement, high ISO E-1 images seem to clean up particularly well and better than images from many other DSLRs.

Terry.

John W. said:

Member said:

bigmack wrote:
An E-1+14-55+50-200 weights 76.7 oz[no
batteries].10D+17-40+70-300DO IS weights 71.2oz[no batts]Oly covers
28-400,Canon covers 27-480 ,speed identical due to C's lower noise
sensor offsetting the faster Oly lens.. IS gives a 3 stop advantage
in the tele range,too. Canon gives you the option!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The Olympus 50-200 is tack sharp with high contrast. Early reports on the Canon DO zoom are not that complimentary except for its diminutive size. Some first-adopters rated the DO image quality on par with Canon's consumer (cheap) lenses. Have the image quality issues subsided recently?

Does the Canon sensor give a full 1 to 1-1/2 stops less effective noise across the entire E-1 ISO range 100-800? My ISO 100 shots on the E-1 are astoundingly clean and always dust-free.

--
Regards,

Jim

'The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange

Adrian

Terry Sessford said:

I played with an E-1 for the first time last Friday (in a shop) and
was very impressed with its handling, build quality, AF speed, etc.
The one big thing that is stopping me upgrading to the E-1 from the
10D is the lack of a decent telephoto lens at a sensible price. At
present my favourite lens is the Canon 100-400 mm f4.5/5.6 IS L.
Olympus should prioritize producing a sensibly priced 300mm f4
prime or a 100-300mm f4 telephoto zoom or similar (preferably with
IS).

Terry.

Click to expand...

Hum, the 50-200 (100-400 35mm equiv) is a very nice lens and is only around $850 plus it is a faster lens. It is f2.8/3.5. How much is the 100-400 Canon lens?

--
Tom
http://www.deltonalakes.com/galleries
Feel free to post your photos