TOTAL Lag Time for M7D

xavier said:

xavier211199 said:

Don't expect this to be an advantage on the M7D if it has a 1.5x
crop. Unless, of course, Minolta does something incredibly cool
and magnifies the viewfinder.

Click to expand...

Actually I believe that the "incredible thing" that would provide
us better viewfinders on DSLRs is "full frame sensor" (or nearly)...

Click to expand...

There's nothing incredible about a full-frame sensor. At the cost and with the number of lens defects that will become evident, you can keep your full frame sensor. I'm happy with 1.5x, especially with all the new ultra-wides available.

--
JCDoss

Member said:

There's nothing incredible about a full-frame sensor. At the cost
and with the number of lens defects that will become evident, you
can keep your full frame sensor. I'm happy with 1.5x, especially
with all the new ultra-wides available.

Click to expand...

I did not mean that I was expecting/wishing FF on any DSLR. So I will not "keep it".

Sorry for the confusion if you understood in my post that I was wishing for FF to happen.

My point was just that the size of the VF depends on the size of the sensor. Indeed, at some point, you have to crop the photographer's view as well as the image is cropped to fit in the size of the sensor. Then, you just have a limited amount of light available for the VF image. Of course, you can magnify but, the amount of light being fixed, this will make the VF image darker.

Here was my point: no larger sensor => no larger/brighter/better VF on DSLRs.
Clearly this is not enough to wish for full frame sensors though.

M7D is not expected to have a full frame sensor. And, as you mentioned in your previous post the M7D will probably not have a great VF as the maxxum 7 has.

My opinion about FF is that it is more than premature right now:

• too costly
• very good glass required to take advantage from a FF sensor
• I have not been so enthusiastic about the existing full frame DSLRs up to now

The "right" crop factor would be around 1.2 or 1.3 for me. Anyway, I have a DSLR and do not plan to buy another one in the next 4 or 5 years

--
Regards,

Xavier

Hi Biu,

Biu said:

The real strength of the Maxxum 7 is not on its AF speed. Yes, it
is fast but more important is its ability to focus in very dim
light, even without firing the infrared assist. It consistently
outperforms other brands in dim light.

Click to expand...

I agreed with you on this. I'm quite amazed with it ability to focus in lowlight condition. In many situation, I'll have to switch to MF if using my older 505si.

Biu said:

Another less mentioned one is the additional f2.8 AF sensor. If
you have a f2.8 lens, it nail the focus much more precisely. It is
especially apparent at the wide end.

Click to expand...

Hmm.. something new to me here.. all I know is 7 is equiped with double cross sensor.

Cheers!
Des

Desmond Lim said:

Desmond Lim said:

Another less mentioned one is the additional f2.8 AF sensor. If
you have a f2.8 lens, it nail the focus much more precisely. It is
especially apparent at the wide end.

Click to expand...

Hmm.. something new to me here.. all I know is 7 is equiped with
double cross sensor.

Click to expand...

The 7 normally uses a '+' sensor (in the center), but if the lens is f2.8 or brighter it uses a 'x' sensor as well to increase precision.

Yours etc.
Torsten

xavier said:

I did not mean that I was expecting/wishing FF on any DSLR. So I
will not "keep it".

Click to expand...

Sorry about that. Re-reading that, it did sound fairly rude. I did not intend to offend you.

xavier211199 said:

Sorry for the confusion if you understood in my post that I was
wishing for FF to happen.

Click to expand...

I was under that impression.

xavier211199 said:

My point was just that the size of the VF depends on the size of
the sensor.

Click to expand...

True, but there are viewfinder magnifiers available for Canon EOS cameras, and the angle viewfinder has a built-in 2x magnifier. My suggestion was that hopefully Minolta would forge ahead and put a magnifier into the viewfinder of their first DSLR. Something that could be turned on or off, like in the case of the Canon angle-finder. Sure, it's not going to make it any brighter, but the alternative (small and dim) seems of benefit to what we could have (large and dim).

--
JCDoss

The 2nd cross sensor is configured to read phase detection from f2.8 aperture opening. Compared to the f6.7 sensors usually found in AF cameras, the f2.8 sensors are measuring light rays passing through the lens wider apert. Therefore, it is about double the accuracy of the regular sensor.

However, if you have a lens with maximum aperture smaller than f2.8 (say f3.5), the aperture would block this cross hair sensor and the camera will use the regualr sensor instead. Minolta just gave us another reason to buy f2.8 or faster lenses.

Elgsdyr said:

Elgsdyr said:

Elgsdyr said:

Another less mentioned one is the additional f2.8 AF sensor. If
you have a f2.8 lens, it nail the focus much more precisely. It is
especially apparent at the wide end.

Click to expand...

Hmm.. something new to me here.. all I know is 7 is equiped with
double cross sensor.

Click to expand...

The 7 normally uses a '+' sensor (in the center), but if the lens
is f2.8 or brighter it uses a 'x' sensor as well to increase
precision.

Yours etc.
Torsten

Click to expand...

Thanks Biu and Elgsdyr,

Must review all my non-F2.8 lenses now ;p

Biu said:

However, if you have a lens with maximum aperture smaller than f2.8
(say f3.5), the aperture would block this cross hair sensor and the
camera will use the regualr sensor instead. Minolta just gave us
another reason to buy f2.8 or faster lenses.

Elgsdyr said:

Biu said:

Biu said:

Another less mentioned one is the additional f2.8 AF sensor. If
you have a f2.8 lens, it nail the focus much more precisely. It is
especially apparent at the wide end.

Click to expand...

Hmm.. something new to me here.. all I know is 7 is equiped with
double cross sensor.

Click to expand...

The 7 normally uses a '+' sensor (in the center), but if the lens
is f2.8 or brighter it uses a 'x' sensor as well to increase
precision.

Yours etc.
Torsten

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I hope KM will figure out how to make big and bright VF like 7 for 7D.. its might be another Wow factor.

JCDoss said:

xavier said:

I did not mean that I was expecting/wishing FF on any DSLR. So I
will not "keep it".

Click to expand...

Sorry about that. Re-reading that, it did sound fairly rude. I
did not intend to offend you.

Member said:

Sorry for the confusion if you understood in my post that I was
wishing for FF to happen.

Click to expand...

I was under that impression.

Member said:

My point was just that the size of the VF depends on the size of
the sensor.

Click to expand...

True, but there are viewfinder magnifiers available for Canon EOS
cameras, and the angle viewfinder has a built-in 2x magnifier. My
suggestion was that hopefully Minolta would forge ahead and put a
magnifier into the viewfinder of their first DSLR. Something that
could be turned on or off, like in the case of the Canon
angle-finder. Sure, it's not going to make it any brighter, but
the alternative (small and dim) seems of benefit to what we could
have (large and dim).

--
JCDoss

Click to expand...

Member said:

Sorry about that. Re-reading that, it did sound fairly rude. I
did not intend to offend you.

Click to expand...

No problem; I should have stated my opinion in a more precise maneer.

Member said:

True, but there are viewfinder magnifiers available for Canon EOS
cameras, and the angle viewfinder has a built-in 2x magnifier. My
suggestion was that hopefully Minolta would forge ahead and put a
magnifier into the viewfinder of their first DSLR. Something that
could be turned on or off, like in the case of the Canon
angle-finder. Sure, it's not going to make it any brighter, but
the alternative (small and dim) seems of benefit to what we could
have (large and dim).

Click to expand...

Obviously something can be done: I compared a D2H and a D70 side by side and the D2H had a much better VF, yet with the same crop factor (and same aperture lens). The choice of a good pentaprism and a bright focusing screen is a first step in the good direction.

I have been thinking about a magnifier; but I think it may turn "small and dim" into "larger and dimer" instead of "large and dim". Some people did it with nikon DSLRs.

I have had my 10D for two months now and my only frustration about it is that I cannot manual focus accurately when I badly need it, that is when the scene is too dark and the AF is goofed.
At least, I can look at the distance ring :-[

--
Regards,

Xavier

xavier said:

I have been thinking about a magnifier; but I think it may turn
"small and dim" into "larger and dimer" instead of "large and dim".

Click to expand...

I think you're probably right about this. It might work the same way teleconverters do... it will magnify but cost you some brightness. However, I'm just guessing here, but I would not expect the magnified viewfinder to be more than a half stop or so darker. I would expect the payoff in magnification to be worth the light lost.

I'll see if I can't dig around and find some user experiences with the Canon equipment I mentioned earlier, and see if magnification resulted in significant image darkening.

--
JCDoss