How do I create a black background and just light the model?

I want the background completely black. Just a glamour model will be posing and only she should be visible in the image. How do I do it?
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

...I'm a beginner myself, but I do it by placing the models at least 4-5 feet in front of the back drop and training the strobes on the model from an angle... failing that, we'll have to wait for one of the experts to come in with some advice.

--
Carrie Viohl

http://www.carrieviohl.com

kapalua,

I'm not an expert, but I'll offer my suggestions anyway.

If you have enough separation between your subject and the background the background will go black naturally (if the distance from flash to background is twice as far as the distance from flash to subject, the background will be 4 stops darker, which should be almost dead black.)

If you don't have enough room for that, get some black velvet and hang it as a background. It eats light. Then angle your lights from the sides to minimize spill, and use barn doors or flags to further reduce the light hitting the background.

Duncan C
-----

kapalua said:

I want the background completely black. Just a glamour model will
be posing and only she should be visible in the image. How do I do
it?
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

Click to expand...

--
dpreview and PBase supporter.



http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

Thanks Duncan,

That's going to require a very large piece of velvet. I can see how the strobes need to be to the sides. The problem is I need like 3 or 4 of them or a lot of white reflectors to eliminate shadows and make the model look like she's illuminated by a soft box, which would be my preferred lighting look.

Duncan C said:

I'm not an expert, but I'll offer my suggestions anyway.

If you have enough separation between your subject and the
background the background will go black naturally (if the distance
from flash to background is twice as far as the distance from flash
to subject, the background will be 4 stops darker, which should be
almost dead black.)

If you don't have enough room for that, get some black velvet and
hang it as a background. It eats light. Then angle your lights from
the sides to minimize spill, and use barn doors or flags to further
reduce the light hitting the background.

Duncan C
-----

kapalua said:

I want the background completely black. Just a glamour model will
be posing and only she should be visible in the image. How do I do
it?
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

Click to expand...

--
dpreview and PBase supporter.



http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

Click to expand...

--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

kapalua,

You can use black seamless paper too. It doesn't eat light quite as well as black velvet, but it will help. you can also patch together 2 pieces, since it should be invisible to the picture if your exposure is correct.

Duncan C
----

kapalua said:

That's going to require a very large piece of velvet. I can see how
the strobes need to be to the sides. The problem is I need like 3
or 4 of them or a lot of white reflectors to eliminate shadows and
make the model look like she's illuminated by a soft box, which
would be my preferred lighting look.

Duncan C said:

I'm not an expert, but I'll offer my suggestions anyway.

If you have enough separation between your subject and the
background the background will go black naturally (if the distance
from flash to background is twice as far as the distance from flash
to subject, the background will be 4 stops darker, which should be
almost dead black.)

If you don't have enough room for that, get some black velvet and
hang it as a background. It eats light. Then angle your lights from
the sides to minimize spill, and use barn doors or flags to further
reduce the light hitting the background.

Duncan C
-----

kapalua said:

I want the background completely black. Just a glamour model will
be posing and only she should be visible in the image. How do I do
it?
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

Click to expand...

--
dpreview and PBase supporter.



http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

Click to expand...

--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

Click to expand...

--
dpreview and PBase supporter.



http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

kapalua said:

I want the background completely black. Just a glamour model will
be posing and only she should be visible in the image. How do I do
it?
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

Click to expand...

Joe Peoples writes:

When you DON'T want your background to go black, it will. When you try to get it completely black, it turns out to be an impossible feat. The way to do it is, as others have suggested, eiither use black or a light-soaking material, such as velvet/velour, and (to help ensure the process) put up masking material to block the light on the sides and top of your subject. You can also use Photoshop to help get you the rest of the way, if need be.

Is this the effect you're after?



Main light is a softbox on camera right, fill light is a reflector on camera left, hair light from behind on camera right, no light on the backdrop.

In this shot the backdrop is 4 feet behind the subject.

Lighting was about f8 at 1/125s, ISO 100.

Happy shooting.

Daniel

Joe Peoples said:

kapalua said:

I want the background completely black. Just a glamour model will
be posing and only she should be visible in the image. How do I do
it?
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

Click to expand...

Joe Peoples writes:

When you DON'T want your background to go black, it will. When you
try to get it completely black, it turns out to be an impossible
feat. The way to do it is, as others have suggested, eiither use
black or a light-soaking material, such as velvet/velour, and (to
help ensure the process) put up masking material to block the light
on the sides and top of your subject. You can also use Photoshop to
help get you the rest of the way, if need be.

Click to expand...

--
Daniel Payne
http://danieljpayne.com/

Thanks for the additional explanation. I think I'll check out the fabric stores to find out if velvet is within reasonable costs. I can see how blocking the light from touching the background becomes very important. Thanks for the demo of the use of a softbox in this technique. How do you block the light with the use of a soft box from going off to towards the black backdrop?

Daniel Payne said:

Main light is a softbox on camera right, fill light is a reflector
on camera left, hair light from behind on camera right, no light on
the backdrop.

In this shot the backdrop is 4 feet behind the subject.

Lighting was about f8 at 1/125s, ISO 100.

Happy shooting.

Daniel

Joe Peoples said:

kapalua said:

I want the background completely black. Just a glamour model will
be posing and only she should be visible in the image. How do I do
it?
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

Click to expand...

Joe Peoples writes:

When you DON'T want your background to go black, it will. When you
try to get it completely black, it turns out to be an impossible
feat. The way to do it is, as others have suggested, eiither use
black or a light-soaking material, such as velvet/velour, and (to
help ensure the process) put up masking material to block the light
on the sides and top of your subject. You can also use Photoshop to
help get you the rest of the way, if need be.

Click to expand...

--
Daniel Payne
http://danieljpayne.com/

Click to expand...

--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

kapalua said:

Daniel Payne said:

Main light is a softbox on camera right, fill light is a reflector
on camera left, hair light from behind on camera right, no light on
the backdrop.

In this shot the backdrop is 4 feet behind the subject.

Lighting was about f8 at 1/125s, ISO 100.

Happy shooting.

Daniel

Joe Peoples said:

kapalua said:

I want the background completely black. Just a glamour model will
be posing and only she should be visible in the image. How do I do
it?
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

Click to expand...

Joe Peoples writes:

When you DON'T want your background to go black, it will. When you
try to get it completely black, it turns out to be an impossible
feat. The way to do it is, as others have suggested, eiither use
black or a light-soaking material, such as velvet/velour, and (to
help ensure the process) put up masking material to block the light
on the sides and top of your subject. You can also use Photoshop to
help get you the rest of the way, if need be.

Click to expand...

--
Daniel Payne
http://danieljpayne.com/

Click to expand...

--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

Click to expand...

For this shot, I used a 22"x 22" softbox camera left about 3' from model and fill bounced into large umbrella camera right. Model was 5' from background material. Keep in mind that the smaller the light source, the quicker the light falls off.



Good luck,
Rodney
--

kapalua wrote:
How do you block the light with the use of a soft box

kapalua said:

from going off to towards the black backdrop?

Click to expand...

===

Here's my amateur photographer take on it.

As some others have said, distance from the background has a lot to do with it.

Ensure that the lighting as close as possible and solely on the model and that no lighting is falling or spilling onto the background. I've used black seamless paper and black material and they are both fine.

I think in your earlier message you said you wanted to shoot models against black.

Here's a model lit with 2 large softboxes either side of camera, plus hairlight. No lights on background, which is black fabric. She's standing about 6 feet from the background:



Here's a model shot in a different studio, with a black paper background. The main lighting is coming from a softbox towards her right side (camera left), but again there is no lighting on the background. She is standing about 6-8 feet from the background:



Hope this helps.

Regards

Paul
--
Paul Jones
http://www.pauljones.org

Thanks for the help, i have been reading the post and have kept notes. i want to do the same stuff. thanks again everyone.

Pickle

Paul Jones said:

Paul Jones said:

from going off to towards the black backdrop?

Click to expand...

===

Here's my amateur photographer take on it.

As some others have said, distance from the background has a lot to
do with it.

Ensure that the lighting as close as possible and solely on the
model and that no lighting is falling or spilling onto the
background. I've used black seamless paper and black material and
they are both fine.

I think in your earlier message you said you wanted to shoot models
against black.

Here's a model lit with 2 large softboxes either side of camera,
plus hairlight. No lights on background, which is black fabric.
She's standing about 6 feet from the background:



Here's a model shot in a different studio, with a black paper
background. The main lighting is coming from a softbox towards her
right side (camera left), but again there is no lighting on the
background. She is standing about 6-8 feet from the background:



Hope this helps.

Regards

Paul
--
Paul Jones
http://www.pauljones.org

Click to expand...

--
Pickle

kapalua said:

Thanks for the additional explanation. I think I'll check out the
fabric stores to find out if velvet is within reasonable costs.

Click to expand...

It will be. Watch for sales. I got mine when it was 1/2 price.

You need "velour" or "velveteen", not "velvet".

Velvet is a silk or nylon plush, single angled so it has a nice sheen. Great for clothes, lousy for backdrops.

Velveteen and velour are cotton straight plush (ok, they do have a little nap) and eat light.

The very best stuf for a light eating backdrop is called "triple velour". That's produced as a mix of three different lengths of plush, so the ends and angles are fairly random. An aquanitance of mine has a German triple velour backfrop. That thing is the black hole. You'll wanl into it, because it's hard to see exactly how far you are away from it.

Also look at "commando cloth" or Duvetyne at theatrical supply stores. That's a deeply black dyed brushed canvas type material. Better black than black paper, mot as good as the velour, priced between paper and velour. Duvetyne is easy to handle, lighter per square foor than velour.

This last bit is important. Do not buy anything labled "stretch Velour", or uses words like "active". Check the fabric composition, you want 100% cottton. If it's a lycra mix, it will drive you cazy, stretching itself like slow moving molasses as you hang it.

kapalua said:

I
can see how blocking the light from touching the background becomes
very important. Thanks for the demo of the use of a softbox in this
technique. How do you block the light with the use of a soft box
from going off to towards the black backdrop?

Click to expand...

Gobos. Black fabric in a frame on a stand. Like a reflector, excelt that it blocks light, instead of redirecting it.

--
A cyberstalker told me not to post anymore...
So I'm posting even more!

Ciao!

Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com

One thing nobody mentioned (I think) is the use of light falloff. Rodney hinted at it, but here is more detail.

If you use a large source of soft light (softbox, scrim, etc.) and you place it really close to your subject...just out of the picture frame. The light will fall off much quicker than if you place your light source farther away from your subject.

Keep in mind that the closer you place your soft light source, the wider the transition zone will be from diffused highlight to shadow.

The principle behind this is simple. As you move your light source closer to your subject, the more intense the light becomes on your subject and the less intense it becomes on your background. Unless of course you have your subject standing right up next to the background! The farther away from your subject you place your light source, the less difference in intensity you will obtain between your subject and background.

Combine the above with the other recommendations for enough distance between your subject and background, along with black paper or velour, and you will be on your way.

kapalua said:

I want the background completely black. Just a glamour model will
be posing and only she should be visible in the image. How do I do
it?
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

Click to expand...

--
A.J.
http://www.ag3photography.com

A.J. Grossman III said:

If you use a large source of soft light (softbox, scrim, etc.) and
you place it really close to your subject...just out of the picture
frame. The light will fall off much quicker than if you place your
light source farther away from your subject.

Keep in mind that the closer you place your soft light source, the
wider the transition zone will be from diffused highlight to shadow.

The principle behind this is simple. As you move your light source
closer to your subject, the more intense the light becomes on your
subject and the less intense it becomes on your background. Unless
of course you have your subject standing right up next to the
background! The farther away from your subject you place your
light source, the less difference in intensity you will obtain
between your subject and background.

Combine the above with the other recommendations for enough
distance between your subject and background, along with black
paper or velour, and you will be on your way.

kapalua said:

I want the background completely black. Just a glamour model will
be posing and only she should be visible in the image. How do I do
it?
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

Click to expand...

--
A.J.
http://www.ag3photography.com

Click to expand...

--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter

The best way to keep the background black is to keep the light off of it. Missing pieces of the puzzle are how you are metering and exposing your photos and whether you are using stobes or hot lights.

With hot lights the #1 cause of gray background is the use of in-camera reflective metering which always tries the average the scene as middle gray. With strobes ambient light can be a factor if the room lights are very bright and you use a slow shutter speed.

Chuck Gardner

Duncan C said:

You can use black seamless paper too...

Click to expand...

The problem I find with paper is that its almost impossible to handle without getting creases in it. We've got some huge rolls of both blue and green (chosen for chromakey work) and every time I try to use it, I end up with creases - which show up in the shots.

Chris.
--
Freelance sports photography
http://www.hockeyphotos.com/