Disappointed again!

Eric "Dog Boy" · Jul 17, 2004

You may remember my posts from awhile back. I had an AF360-FGZ flash that was defective as soon as I received it. I had sent it to Pentax for repair and it returned with another problem. Well, after its second trip to Pentax for repair it has returned to me with not one, but a whole host of problems. The problems are as follows:

1) I believe the catch light panel was installed both backwards, and inserted in the wrong direction. I am looking for confirmation on this!!! It has one side that is flat white, and the other is glossy. The glossy side is now towards the back of the flash while the flat side faces the subject. It seems this was the oposite case before. It also now has a small rectangular cut out in it that I do not remember it having before. This leads me to believe that the wrong side is installed into the flash.

2) The bounce flash indicator on the LCD now only works for the -10 degree setting. In addition the manual states that when using bounce flash in positive rotations the effective range will not be displayed, but on my flash it continues to be displayed. I guess the sensor for detecting this was either not installed, was not installed properly, or was connected. This is with the assumption that the -10 degree setting uses a different sensor.

3) Finally, and most severe is that on one occasion, I was back to an over exposure problem, but the camera/flash behavior was very different. The camera would only use a shutter speed of 6/10ths of a second. The flash symbol in the view finder was flashing, yet the flash indicated ready. The camera was in P mode, and was not forced into aperture or shutter priority mode with one of the command wheels. Yet the flash fired and my pictures were considerably over exposed, but not as over exposed as when I sent the flash in the last time. I turned the flash and camera off for a few seconds, and the problem persisted. It was only after I turned the camera and flash off for several minutes that the situation was corrected.

On Monday I plan to talk to the manager of the service department at Pentax. If he or she does not agree to replace this flash, that day, with a factory new one, I may very well sell off my Pentax *ist D, Pentax SMC DA 16-45 lens, Tamron 28-200 XR lens, and go back to Olympus. I will just throw the flash in the trash, or get some kind of salvage value for it. With the the problems it has, It could not be worth more the 50usd. I had asked them to replace this flash the second time I sent it in. I hope they honor this request this time. At any rate, this will most likely be the first and last Pentax camera I own. My reasoning being that even it there is a lot to like about their products, if they cannot support them in a reasonable manner, the products are just not worth the headaches of trying to get something repaired.

Responses appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric

racehorse in the desert · Jul 17, 2004

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
You may remember my posts from awhile back. I had an AF360-FGZ
flash that was defective as soon as I received it. I had sent it to
Pentax for repair and it returned with another problem. Well, after
its second trip to Pentax for repair it has returned to me with not
one, but a whole host of problems. The problems are as follows:

1) I believe the catch light panel was installed both backwards,
and inserted in the wrong direction. I am looking for confirmation
on this!!! It has one side that is flat white, and the other is
glossy. The glossy side is now towards the back of the flash while
the flat side faces the subject. It seems this was the oposite case
before. It also now has a small rectangular cut out in it that I do
not remember it having before. This leads me to believe that the
wrong side is installed into the flash.

No, the flat side is forward, and there is a small rectangular whole. Yours is okay on this point.

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
2) The bounce flash indicator on the LCD now only works for the -10
degree setting. In addition the manual states that when using
bounce flash in positive rotations the effective range will not be
displayed, but on my flash it continues to be displayed. I guess
the sensor for detecting this was either not installed, was not
installed properly, or was connected. This is with the assumption
that the -10 degree setting uses a different sensor.

There is only one indicator on the LCD that the flash is in bounce position. So you are okay there. However, the effective range does disappear on mine in bounce mode. I have two AF360's same with both.

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
3) Finally, and most severe is that on one occasion, I was back to
an over exposure problem, but the camera/flash behavior was very
different. The camera would only use a shutter speed of 6/10ths of
a second. The flash symbol in the view finder was flashing, yet the
flash indicated ready. The camera was in P mode, and was not forced
into aperture or shutter priority mode with one of the command
wheels. Yet the flash fired and my pictures were considerably over
exposed, but not as over exposed as when I sent the flash in the
last time. I turned the flash and camera off for a few seconds, and
the problem persisted. It was only after I turned the camera and
flash off for several minutes that the situation was corrected.

Sometimes it seems that the AF360 "locks up" and you have to turn it off and on.

Now, if the flash consistently over-exposes, that is a problem because posts on this forum indicate that it is usually necessary to boost the AF360 by 1/2 or 1 stop in many situations. This parallels my own experience, but the units work well for me overall.

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
On Monday I plan to talk to the manager of the service department
at Pentax. If he or she does not agree to replace this flash, that
day, with a factory new one, I may very well sell off my Pentax
*ist D, Pentax SMC DA 16-45 lens, Tamron 28-200 XR lens, and go
back to Olympus. I will just throw the flash in the trash, or get
some kind of salvage value for it. With the the problems it has, It
could not be worth more the 50usd.

If you are that unhappy, just buy a third party flash. No reason to trash a good sysem just because of one piece.

I had asked them to replace this

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
flash the second time I sent it in. I hope they honor this request
this time. At any rate, this will most likely be the first and last
Pentax camera I own. My reasoning being that even it there is a lot
to like about their products, if they cannot support them in a
reasonable manner, the products are just not worth the headaches of
trying to get something repaired.

Anyway, just my 2Cs.
--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

Eric "Dog Boy" · Jul 17, 2004

racehorse in the desert said:
racehorse in the desert said:

2) The bounce flash indicator on the LCD now only works for the -10
degree setting. In addition the manual states that when using
bounce flash in positive rotations the effective range will not be
displayed, but on my flash it continues to be displayed. I guess
the sensor for detecting this was either not installed, was not
installed properly, or was connected. This is with the assumption
that the -10 degree setting uses a different sensor.

Click to expand...

There is only one indicator on the LCD that the flash is in bounce
position. So you are okay there. However, the effective range
does disappear on mine in bounce mode. I have two AF360's same
with both.

I really appreciate your response.

I would like to make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that for positive rotations, rotated up from the locked position, the pictorial bounce indicator on the LCD panel does not come on? This is the indicator that looks like a profile of the flash. I seems to me when I first got the flash this came on for positive rotations and the effective range was not displayed. Now, the indicator does not come on when the flash head is rotated up from the locked position and the effective range continues to be displayed on my flash. The flash acts as it is supposed to for the -10 degree rotation setting. In this case the bounce indicator comes on and the effective range display flashes.

I also wonder if there is just an indication of rotation or if some compensations are made by the flash when in bounce mode. If compenstions are made by the flash it is essential that it be able to recognize when the flash head is rotated up from the locked position.

Thanks,
Eric

Eric "Dog Boy" · Jul 17, 2004

racehorse in the desert said:
If you are that unhappy, just buy a third party flash. No reason
to trash a good sysem just because of one piece.

I have given some consideration to the Metz 44AF-MZ2, or a second AF360-FGZ. The Metz just does not have the features of the AF360-FGZ, yet it costs considerably more when you factor in the adapter. At the same time, I hate to buy another AF360-FGZ considering the problems I have had with my current one. I want to believe it is unlikely that I would get another bad one, but what if I did?

Question:

Can you use one AF360-FGZ mounted on the camera and another one wireless? Or, do you have to go to a wired setup to use two?

Thanks,
Eric

Bruce Dayton · Jul 17, 2004

I have heard of people being happy with the latest flash from Sigma. It is a very recent model that seems to have about the same feature set as the AF360FGZ except a bit more powerful. It is probably at least worth checking into.

Bruce

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
racehorse in the desert said:

If you are that unhappy, just buy a third party flash. No reason
to trash a good sysem just because of one piece.

Click to expand...

I have given some consideration to the Metz 44AF-MZ2, or a second
AF360-FGZ. The Metz just does not have the features of the
AF360-FGZ, yet it costs considerably more when you factor in the
adapter. At the same time, I hate to buy another AF360-FGZ
considering the problems I have had with my current one. I want to
believe it is unlikely that I would get another bad one, but what
if I did?

Question:
Can you use one AF360-FGZ mounted on the camera and another one
wireless? Or, do you have to go to a wired setup to use two?

Thanks,
Eric

hurtsme · Jul 17, 2004

I can recommend the Metz 54MZ-4 for Pentax. Most places have it for $399.00. It comes with the adapter, and is compatible with P-TTL It is a good deal more expensive than the AF360, but it is a much more complete flash unit.

Face it, the 360 is a seriously undepowered flash unit with a guide number of only 117 ft (hence the need to dial in over exposure). The Metz gives the most consistent flash exposures I have seen in a while, and has a guide number of 177 ft. In addition, it gives a more neutral color tone than the 360, and has more in the way of accessories to build a complete lighting system.

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
racehorse in the desert said:

If you are that unhappy, just buy a third party flash. No reason
to trash a good sysem just because of one piece.

Click to expand...

I have given some consideration to the Metz 44AF-MZ2, or a second
AF360-FGZ. The Metz just does not have the features of the
AF360-FGZ, yet it costs considerably more when you factor in the
adapter. At the same time, I hate to buy another AF360-FGZ
considering the problems I have had with my current one. I want to
believe it is unlikely that I would get another bad one, but what
if I did?

Question:
Can you use one AF360-FGZ mounted on the camera and another one
wireless? Or, do you have to go to a wired setup to use two?

Thanks,
Eric

--
God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.

racehorse in the desert · Jul 17, 2004

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
racehorse in the desert said:

Eric "Dog Boy" said:

2) The bounce flash indicator on the LCD now only works for the -10
degree setting. In addition the manual states that when using
bounce flash in positive rotations the effective range will not be
displayed, but on my flash it continues to be displayed. I guess
the sensor for detecting this was either not installed, was not
installed properly, or was connected. This is with the assumption
that the -10 degree setting uses a different sensor.

Click to expand...

There is only one indicator on the LCD that the flash is in bounce
position. So you are okay there. However, the effective range
does disappear on mine in bounce mode. I have two AF360's same
with both.

Click to expand...

I really appreciate your response.

I would like to make sure I understand you correctly. Are you
saying that for positive rotations, rotated up from the locked
position, the pictorial bounce indicator on the LCD panel does not
come on? This is the indicator that looks like a profile of the
flash. I seems to me when I first got the flash this came on for
positive rotations and the effective range was not displayed. Now,
the indicator does not come on when the flash head is rotated up
from the locked position and the effective range continues to be
displayed on my flash. The flash acts as it is supposed to for the
-10 degree rotation setting. In this case the bounce indicator
comes on and the effective range display flashes.

I misunderstood you. Yes, the little drawing that looks like a profile of the flash should be displayed when you move the head off the 90 degree position. That would indicate you have a problem.

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
I also wonder if there is just an indication of rotation or if some
compensations are made by the flash when in bounce mode. If
compenstions are made by the flash it is essential that it be able
to recognize when the flash head is rotated up from the locked
position.

Thanks,
Eric

--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

racehorse in the desert · Jul 17, 2004

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
Question:
Can you use one AF360-FGZ mounted on the camera and another one
wireless? Or, do you have to go to a wired setup to use two?

Thanks,
Eric

I believe that the manual says you can use the AF360 in wireless mode mounted on the camera. However, I rarely mount it on the camera as I use a Stroboframe. I have tested a two AF360 wireless combo with one at the camera on the Stroboframe in wireless mode (not using cables) and a second AF360 mounted on a stand in wireless mode, with good results. However, you lose the zoom feature in wireless mode.
--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

FJEH · Jul 17, 2004

I agree no point in trashing a good system just because of a problem flash. I have the 500FTZ and I can't reccomend it highly enough (assuming it has the features you want). I've had mine for over 12 years initially on a Z1 and never a problem. Loads of power and most features I need - I'd rather have the power than the wireless. Certainly worth a look at some of the recent independants also. Don't give up on a great camera and lens (just got my 16-45) over a faulty flash - agree the service should have been better though. Hope this helps.

Regards

Frank.

racehorse in the desert said:
Eric "Dog Boy" said:

You may remember my posts from awhile back. I had an AF360-FGZ
flash that was defective as soon as I received it. I had sent it to
Pentax for repair and it returned with another problem. Well, after
its second trip to Pentax for repair it has returned to me with not
one, but a whole host of problems. The problems are as follows:

1) I believe the catch light panel was installed both backwards,
and inserted in the wrong direction. I am looking for confirmation
on this!!! It has one side that is flat white, and the other is
glossy. The glossy side is now towards the back of the flash while
the flat side faces the subject. It seems this was the oposite case
before. It also now has a small rectangular cut out in it that I do
not remember it having before. This leads me to believe that the
wrong side is installed into the flash.

Click to expand...

No, the flat side is forward, and there is a small rectangular
whole. Yours is okay on this point.

racehorse in the desert said:

2) The bounce flash indicator on the LCD now only works for the -10
degree setting. In addition the manual states that when using
bounce flash in positive rotations the effective range will not be
displayed, but on my flash it continues to be displayed. I guess
the sensor for detecting this was either not installed, was not
installed properly, or was connected. This is with the assumption
that the -10 degree setting uses a different sensor.

Click to expand...

There is only one indicator on the LCD that the flash is in bounce
position. So you are okay there. However, the effective range
does disappear on mine in bounce mode. I have two AF360's same
with both.

racehorse in the desert said:

3) Finally, and most severe is that on one occasion, I was back to
an over exposure problem, but the camera/flash behavior was very
different. The camera would only use a shutter speed of 6/10ths of
a second. The flash symbol in the view finder was flashing, yet the
flash indicated ready. The camera was in P mode, and was not forced
into aperture or shutter priority mode with one of the command
wheels. Yet the flash fired and my pictures were considerably over
exposed, but not as over exposed as when I sent the flash in the
last time. I turned the flash and camera off for a few seconds, and
the problem persisted. It was only after I turned the camera and
flash off for several minutes that the situation was corrected.

Click to expand...

Sometimes it seems that the AF360 "locks up" and you have to turn
it off and on.

Now, if the flash consistently over-exposes, that is a problem
because posts on this forum indicate that it is usually necessary
to boost the AF360 by 1/2 or 1 stop in many situations. This
parallels my own experience, but the units work well for me overall.

racehorse in the desert said:

On Monday I plan to talk to the manager of the service department
at Pentax. If he or she does not agree to replace this flash, that
day, with a factory new one, I may very well sell off my Pentax
*ist D, Pentax SMC DA 16-45 lens, Tamron 28-200 XR lens, and go
back to Olympus. I will just throw the flash in the trash, or get
some kind of salvage value for it. With the the problems it has, It
could not be worth more the 50usd.

Click to expand...

If you are that unhappy, just buy a third party flash. No reason
to trash a good sysem just because of one piece.

I had asked them to replace this

racehorse in the desert said:

flash the second time I sent it in. I hope they honor this request
this time. At any rate, this will most likely be the first and last
Pentax camera I own. My reasoning being that even it there is a lot
to like about their products, if they cannot support them in a
reasonable manner, the products are just not worth the headaches of
trying to get something repaired.

Click to expand...

Anyway, just my 2Cs.
--
John Power
Racehorse in the desert

'Life is too short to miss out on photography.'

*isteve · Jul 17, 2004

Hey Eric! My 360 works flawlessly so you were unlucky. Tell them to replace the wretched thing and buy a new flash rather than writng off a great cam and losing loads of money in a fit of pique - after all you lose far more than the cost of a new flash!!

This is my first Pentax SLR of any kind and I'm sold. Theres nothing I can replace it with let alone the E1 with that awful image ratio that doesnt fit properly on A4!!
Steve

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
You may remember my posts from awhile back. I had an AF360-FGZ
flash that was defective as soon as I received it. I had sent it to
Pentax for repair and it returned with another problem. Well, after
its second trip to Pentax for repair it has returned to me with not
one, but a whole host of problems. The problems are as follows:

1) I believe the catch light panel was installed both backwards,
and inserted in the wrong direction. I am looking for confirmation
on this!!! It has one side that is flat white, and the other is
glossy. The glossy side is now towards the back of the flash while
the flat side faces the subject. It seems this was the oposite case
before. It also now has a small rectangular cut out in it that I do
not remember it having before. This leads me to believe that the
wrong side is installed into the flash.

2) The bounce flash indicator on the LCD now only works for the -10
degree setting. In addition the manual states that when using
bounce flash in positive rotations the effective range will not be
displayed, but on my flash it continues to be displayed. I guess
the sensor for detecting this was either not installed, was not
installed properly, or was connected. This is with the assumption
that the -10 degree setting uses a different sensor.

3) Finally, and most severe is that on one occasion, I was back to
an over exposure problem, but the camera/flash behavior was very
different. The camera would only use a shutter speed of 6/10ths of
a second. The flash symbol in the view finder was flashing, yet the
flash indicated ready. The camera was in P mode, and was not forced
into aperture or shutter priority mode with one of the command
wheels. Yet the flash fired and my pictures were considerably over
exposed, but not as over exposed as when I sent the flash in the
last time. I turned the flash and camera off for a few seconds, and
the problem persisted. It was only after I turned the camera and
flash off for several minutes that the situation was corrected.

On Monday I plan to talk to the manager of the service department
at Pentax. If he or she does not agree to replace this flash, that
day, with a factory new one, I may very well sell off my Pentax
*ist D, Pentax SMC DA 16-45 lens, Tamron 28-200 XR lens, and go
back to Olympus. I will just throw the flash in the trash, or get
some kind of salvage value for it. With the the problems it has, It
could not be worth more the 50usd. I had asked them to replace this
flash the second time I sent it in. I hope they honor this request
this time. At any rate, this will most likely be the first and last
Pentax camera I own. My reasoning being that even it there is a lot
to like about their products, if they cannot support them in a
reasonable manner, the products are just not worth the headaches of
trying to get something repaired.

Responses appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric

Darren M · Jul 17, 2004

Hi Eric. Sorry to hear you are having some bad experiences and bad luck. Just as a little point of interest, changing brands may not change your luck with service at all. Most electronics companies do not have their own service department, those are subcontracted out locally. At least this is the way it is done in Canada. This being the case, the same subpar service you get from Pentax could well be the same subpar service you will get from Canon or Nikon, etc. One service outlet is very likely to be the warranty depot for a number of different brands. This might change country to country, or if you live in a very large city, but even in moderately large cities, this is true. I worked in retail electronics (not photography) in Vancouver for a number of years, and I can tell you that most major brands (Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Yamaha, etc) end up at the same service centers, there just isn't enough business dealing with one company only to have that compay run an independent service desk. My guess is that the service issues you are having are more to do with a local company as opposed to Pentax themselves. All this is simply a long way of saying that switching brands may not solve your service issues at all. Hopefully if you contact someone in the right position with Pentax themselves (in your country), your problems can be resolved.

As a side note, I just picked up at Sigma EF 500 DG Super, which offers the same features as the 360, but also offers higher power and left to right swivel as well. This is the first time I have used a flash, I am a natural light guy, but I have been more than pleased with the results and ease of use. Considering that in Taiwan, the Sigma is about the Same price as the Pentax, it is worth considering I think.

Gook luck.

--

http://www.trekearth.com/members/Darren/photos/

Have camera, will travel

Dave · Jul 18, 2004

Hi All,

I'll pss along my observations with multiple istD bodies with a number of 360 flashes, 500FTZ flashes, Metx 54MZ-4 flash, and built in flash.

It appears that for the most part istD bodiies will severly underexpose with any true "PTTL" flash..that would include the Pentax 360 flash and also the built in flash (I haven't yet tried Sigma's new flash). There is something in the evaluative circuitry of PTTL flashes on the istD that causes this severe underexposure. Of course how much underexposure is dependent on subject, distance and exposure value of surroundings and background. It can be as much as 2.5 stops underexposure (in extreme cases) but generally runs in the neighborhod of 1.5 f-stops, give o take. In contrast, regular TTL flash (non-PTTL), generally exposes quite well with the ist...occasionally a bit "hot" requiring -.5 or a bit more exposure compensation. Of course unlike PTTL flashs there is no true flash compensation on regular TTL flash for Pentax (just on their PTTL flashes). Also wireless can only be performed with PTTL flashes. The 360 underexposure is not due to a weak output since even close up, it still underexposes. So it's a trade off...flash compensation, wireless operation but severe underexposure with PTTL flashes or generally accurate exposures but no wireless or true flash compensation with non PTTL flash.

So far with the latest metz 54Mz4 and the latest Met module, as far as I can tell (and confirm with Bogan the Metz distributor), the 54Mz4 and latest module is a non-PTTL flash. It's flash exposure accuracy on the istD falls right in line with other non PTTL flashes such as the 500 FTZ. With that said I completely agree with mpeman that the consistancy, high power outut and quality of this flash (although somewhat big, has been ideal with the istD. Exposures run a bit hot, just like with the 500 FTZ, and I expected this to be the case. If Metz does release a PTTL module, I would be severe underexposure will be seen (as with all PTTL flash for Pentax)...but we'll gain flash exposure compensation..so once again the same tradeoff. So far I have much prefered non PTTL the way it's been working on the istD and the Metz will still give you their own wireless operation.

Lastly when it comes to outdoor fill flash, I often wonder why pentax doesn't have a indicator in the viewfinder warning of fill falsh overexposure due to reaching the limits of flash sync speed. Nikon immediately flashing "Hi", to warn of pending fill flash overexposure.

In my experience with all the falshes mentioned with the istD and those of both Nikon and Canon digital SLr's..Pentax is where Nikon was a few years ago, where flash exposure was inconsistant and all sorts of exposure compensation needed to be dialed in in many situations. Both these systems have evolved to the point where for the most part, flash is very highly accurate in a large majority of both indooor flash use as well as outdoor fill flash, with little imput fo the shooter. Flash with digital SLR has been quite a learning curve for the manufacturers over the past few years and no doubt Pentax will impove upon their system.

David

wlachan · Jul 18, 2004

If you are certain your flash was new and faulty, and Pentax USA was unable to repair and unwilling to send you a new one. Just email Pentax Japan for a formal complaint and you will have a new unit in no time. Works for many Pentax users world wide (but don't abuse it). Email me for their email address if you need it eventually (rather not expose it publically).
--
http://www.pbase.com/wlachan/

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
You may remember my posts from awhile back. I had an AF360-FGZ
flash that was defective as soon as I received it. I had sent it to
Pentax for repair and it returned with another problem. Well, after
its second trip to Pentax for repair it has returned to me with not
one, but a whole host of problems. The problems are as follows:

1) I believe the catch light panel was installed both backwards,
and inserted in the wrong direction. I am looking for confirmation
on this!!! It has one side that is flat white, and the other is
glossy. The glossy side is now towards the back of the flash while
the flat side faces the subject. It seems this was the oposite case
before. It also now has a small rectangular cut out in it that I do
not remember it having before. This leads me to believe that the
wrong side is installed into the flash.

2) The bounce flash indicator on the LCD now only works for the -10
degree setting. In addition the manual states that when using
bounce flash in positive rotations the effective range will not be
displayed, but on my flash it continues to be displayed. I guess
the sensor for detecting this was either not installed, was not
installed properly, or was connected. This is with the assumption
that the -10 degree setting uses a different sensor.

3) Finally, and most severe is that on one occasion, I was back to
an over exposure problem, but the camera/flash behavior was very
different. The camera would only use a shutter speed of 6/10ths of
a second. The flash symbol in the view finder was flashing, yet the
flash indicated ready. The camera was in P mode, and was not forced
into aperture or shutter priority mode with one of the command
wheels. Yet the flash fired and my pictures were considerably over
exposed, but not as over exposed as when I sent the flash in the
last time. I turned the flash and camera off for a few seconds, and
the problem persisted. It was only after I turned the camera and
flash off for several minutes that the situation was corrected.

On Monday I plan to talk to the manager of the service department
at Pentax. If he or she does not agree to replace this flash, that
day, with a factory new one, I may very well sell off my Pentax
*ist D, Pentax SMC DA 16-45 lens, Tamron 28-200 XR lens, and go
back to Olympus. I will just throw the flash in the trash, or get
some kind of salvage value for it. With the the problems it has, It
could not be worth more the 50usd. I had asked them to replace this
flash the second time I sent it in. I hope they honor this request
this time. At any rate, this will most likely be the first and last
Pentax camera I own. My reasoning being that even it there is a lot
to like about their products, if they cannot support them in a
reasonable manner, the products are just not worth the headaches of
trying to get something repaired.

Responses appreciated.

Thanks,
Eric

Parham · Jul 18, 2004

... how is it possible to have two Daves (with a capital "D") registered in the same forum...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/postersprofile.asp?poster=hjifidizhe

And btw, hi Dave!

Regards.

Dave said:
Hi All,

I'll pss along my observations with multiple istD bodies with a
number of 360 flashes, 500FTZ flashes, Metx 54MZ-4 flash, and built
in flash.

It appears that for the most part istD bodiies will severly
underexpose with any true "PTTL" flash..that would include the
Pentax 360 flash and also the built in flash (I haven't yet tried
Sigma's new flash). There is something in the evaluative circuitry
of PTTL flashes on the istD that causes this severe underexposure.
Of course how much underexposure is dependent on subject, distance
and exposure value of surroundings and background. It can be as
much as 2.5 stops underexposure (in extreme cases) but generally
runs in the neighborhod of 1.5 f-stops, give o take. In contrast,
regular TTL flash (non-PTTL), generally exposes quite well with the
ist...occasionally a bit "hot" requiring -.5 or a bit more exposure
compensation. Of course unlike PTTL flashs there is no true flash
compensation on regular TTL flash for Pentax (just on their PTTL
flashes). Also wireless can only be performed with PTTL flashes.
The 360 underexposure is not due to a weak output since even close
up, it still underexposes. So it's a trade off...flash
compensation, wireless operation but severe underexposure with PTTL
flashes or generally accurate exposures but no wireless or true
flash compensation with non PTTL flash.

So far with the latest metz 54Mz4 and the latest Met module, as
far as I can tell (and confirm with Bogan the Metz distributor),
the 54Mz4 and latest module is a non-PTTL flash. It's flash
exposure accuracy on the istD falls right in line with other non
PTTL flashes such as the 500 FTZ. With that said I completely
agree with mpeman that the consistancy, high power outut and
quality of this flash (although somewhat big, has been ideal with
the istD. Exposures run a bit hot, just like with the 500 FTZ, and
I expected this to be the case. If Metz does release a PTTL
module, I would be severe underexposure will be seen (as with all
PTTL flash for Pentax)...but we'll gain flash exposure
compensation..so once again the same tradeoff. So far I have much
prefered non PTTL the way it's been working on the istD and the
Metz will still give you their own wireless operation.

Lastly when it comes to outdoor fill flash, I often wonder why
pentax doesn't have a indicator in the viewfinder warning of fill
falsh overexposure due to reaching the limits of flash sync speed.
Nikon immediately flashing "Hi", to warn of pending fill flash
overexposure.

In my experience with all the falshes mentioned with the istD and
those of both Nikon and Canon digital SLr's..Pentax is where Nikon
was a few years ago, where flash exposure was inconsistant and all
sorts of exposure compensation needed to be dialed in in many
situations. Both these systems have evolved to the point where for
the most part, flash is very highly accurate in a large majority of
both indooor flash use as well as outdoor fill flash, with little
imput fo the shooter. Flash with digital SLR has been quite a
learning curve for the manufacturers over the past few years and no
doubt Pentax will impove upon their system.

David

--
Think.
http://www.pbase.com/parham

Eric "Dog Boy" · Jul 18, 2004

I appreciate all the responses.

It is not that I want to sell my *ist D, but given the performance of the Pentax repair department in Colorado, USA I would have a difficult time entrusting a repair to them on an item as expensive as my camera body. If they cannot get the flash repair right, why/how should I trust them if I have a problem with my camera body. The reason I would go ahead and sell my *ist D is so I would never be faced with this proposition.

When I got my flash back from them the first time, I realized immediately that something was wrong. I called the service department to inform them of the situation and was quite shocked by their attitude. It was not one of regret, concern, or embarassment for having sent the flash back to me when it was so obvious that the repair was faulty. It was more like, send it back in and we will try to get it right this time. I got the feeling that I was supposed to have infinite patients with their attempts at repair, and I should accept that it is completely allright for them to perform a faulty repair. The fact that they did not seem to see anything wrong with this situation causes me grave concern about thier corporate culture, and the resulting diligence of their efforts.

I still want to give them one last chance on Monday to make things right. One little simple thing that would make me feel infinitely better about them is a sincere apology. I will let you know what they have to say.

In the mean time, has anyone used the Metz AF44-MZ2 flash with the *ist D, and if so what type of results did you get?

Thanks,
Eric

Dave said:
Hi All,

I'll pss along my observations with multiple istD bodies with a
number of 360 flashes, 500FTZ flashes, Metx 54MZ-4 flash, and built
in flash.

...

Dave · Jul 18, 2004

Hi Parham,

First let me say hi to you too! Although I didn't psst at the time, I truly enjoyed the picture your posted of your "favorite photographer"! Very interesting looking individual and I love how he decorated his camera gear!

Wow, you are right! Those posts by that other "Dave" (with a capital "D") is certainly not me. I too would have thought only one unique picked name can be used for dprevie site, so this is a mystery. Of course if I could get this other "Dave" to pay all my "bills", wash my car, recharge all my batteries when they need charging and so on....I then wouldn't mind...oh and yes, hand over his paycheck each weak so I can purchase additional lenses! (all said in jest of course). Serious though, when I have time, I might e-mail Phil Askey and ask how this is possible. Just thin, maybe this other "Dave" will dipute all my istD observations and my reputation will be taken down a notch or two

. I better get writing. Anyhow, thank you for the "heads-up" Parham and hope all is well. Regards,

Dave

Parham said:
... how is it possible to have two Daves (with a capital "D")
registered in the same forum...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/postersprofile.asp?poster=hjifidizhe

And btw, hi Dave!

Regards.

Parham · Jul 19, 2004

Hi Dave,

Dave said:
Hi Parham,

First let me say hi to you too! Although I didn't psst at the
time, I truly enjoyed the picture your posted of your "favorite
photographer"! Very interesting looking individual and I love how
he decorated his camera gear!

I'm glad you liked it. I just love the character. I wished I had my *ist D with me that day though. That pic was taken with the tiny S4.

Member said:
Wow, you are right! Those posts by that other "Dave" (with a
capital "D") is certainly not me. I too would have thought only
one unique picked name can be used for dprevie site, so this is a
mystery. Of course if I could get this other "Dave" to pay all my
"bills", wash my car, recharge all my batteries when they need
charging and so on....I then wouldn't mind...oh and yes, hand over
his paycheck each weak so I can purchase additional lenses! (all
said in jest of course).

If I were you, I'd also take advantage of the situation by dumping all my Carpenters record collection on him as well. :-D

Member said:
Serious though, when I have time, I
might e-mail Phil Askey and ask how this is possible. Just thin,
maybe this other "Dave" will dipute all my istD observations and my
reputation will be taken down a notch or two .

You're right, that would be dangerous. OTOH, may be I should contact him regarding an idea you just gave me. Hehehe... ;-)

Member said:
I better get
writing. Anyhow, thank you for the "heads-up" Parham and hope all
is well. Regards,

Dave

I wish you the same Dave, take care.

Member said:
Parham said:

... how is it possible to have two Daves (with a capital "D")
registered in the same forum...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/postersprofile.asp?poster=hjifidizhe

And btw, hi Dave!

Regards.

Click to expand...

--
Think.
http://www.pbase.com/parham

Eric "Dog Boy" · Jul 28, 2004

All:

The good news is I now have a replacement flash for my AF360FGZ compliments of Pentax. Kudos to Pentax! The bad news is that I purchased a Metz 44MZ-2 in the interim. I guess this is really not bad news, but I felt compelled to say it. I have done some initial comparisons and I will most likely keep the Metz and sell the Pentax. The pictures for the Metz seem to have better color, exposure consistency, and as a result more detail. I will make further comparisons before a final decision is made. This will also give me more opportunity to make sure the Pentax is working correctly. Does anyone know how I can determine what a slightly used AF360FGZ is worth? If I decide to sell it, and I cannot get much for it, I will probably keep it as a backup flash.

Thanks for listening and the feedback,
Eric

Eric "Dog Boy" said:
I appreciate all the responses.

It is not that I want to sell my *ist D, but given the performance
of the Pentax repair department in Colorado, USA I would have a
difficult time entrusting a repair to them on an item as expensive
as my camera body. If they cannot get the flash repair right,
why/how should I trust them if I have a problem with my camera
body. The reason I would go ahead and sell my *ist D is so I would
never be faced with this proposition.

When I got my flash back from them the first time, I realized
immediately that something was wrong. I called the service
department to inform them of the situation and was quite shocked by
their attitude. It was not one of regret, concern, or embarassment
for having sent the flash back to me when it was so obvious that
the repair was faulty. It was more like, send it back in and we
will try to get it right this time. I got the feeling that I was
supposed to have infinite patients with their attempts at repair,
and I should accept that it is completely allright for them to
perform a faulty repair. The fact that they did not seem to see
anything wrong with this situation causes me grave concern about
thier corporate culture, and the resulting diligence of their
efforts.

I still want to give them one last chance on Monday to make things
right. One little simple thing that would make me feel infinitely
better about them is a sincere apology. I will let you know what
they have to say.

In the mean time, has anyone used the Metz AF44-MZ2 flash with the
*ist D, and if so what type of results did you get?

Thanks,
Eric

pictureman · Jul 28, 2004

Yes, I was having trouble with my Pentax 360 flash, with constant underexposure. Also, I melted the front panel from shooting too much. Pentax replaced the front panel at no charge, but it took a month.

I bought the Metz 54 MZ-4 and Metz 44 AF-3 flashes. They are great! You will be pleased with the improved exposure accuracy and build quality. The features are not as comprehensive as the 360's, but you won't have those problems that you've been having. I got mine from B&H.

--
pictureman

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