Q re Mac Stability

First of all let me say I am not a Mac user. I am seriously thinking going Mac (iBook or PBook as others have kindly suggested in the 10D forum).

One question is stability. Every Windows OS I have had (I started with DOS in a 8088 environment) have had to eventually be re-installed. It takes years but YES, it has to be done. Is the same for a Mac? Please let me know honestly if this is the case. My latest OS is Windows 2000. Very stable (relatively) but after three years, with software being added and removed, it is time for me to re-install and clean it up. It has slowed down significantly. I guess you know the amount of time this will take.

I hope that this is not the case with the Mac. Any information you can give to me in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

Bob

--
BobM

I can't speak for pre-OS X and the initial versions of OS X were rough around the edges but it seems that with OS 10.2 they've gotten most of the rough bits worked out. I've had my powerbook 667 for over 3 years now and while it's a little slow (compared to what's out now) I'm still very happy with it. The only reloading I've had to do was to install 10.2 and then 10.3 but that was just upgrading. Haven't had to do a full install since I got it. Great machines.

Bob Magluyan said:

First of all let me say I am not a Mac user. I am seriously
thinking going Mac (iBook or PBook as others have kindly suggested
in the 10D forum).

One question is stability. Every Windows OS I have had (I started
with DOS in a 8088 environment) have had to eventually be
re-installed. It takes years but YES, it has to be done. Is the
same for a Mac? Please let me know honestly if this is the case. My
latest OS is Windows 2000. Very stable (relatively) but after three
years, with software being added and removed, it is time for me to
re-install and clean it up. It has slowed down significantly. I
guess you know the amount of time this will take.

I hope that this is not the case with the Mac. Any information you
can give to me in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

Click to expand...

Part of what makes reinstall nessicary on Windows is the registry - things build up in there (and elsewhere) and cause issues over time.

Happily OSX does not have the registry. It has the "Library" folder, where things like that live - but in seperate pieces. It makes it a lot easier to clean out if you like, or migrate programs to other systems while keeping settings. And adding things to the library does not effect performance of the system.

I have also had a Powerbook 667 for around three years. While I have installed newer versions of the OS, these have been updates and I have never spent any effort in cleaning out the computer at all. I have not had to reinstall the OS and it feels as snappy as the day I bought it (well, a little snappier actually as the OS updates have increased UI speed a bit over time).

One other thing that helps is that OS X has a very good scheme for keeping disks defragmented, another potential for decreased system performance.

Also, since you don't have to run a virus scanner constantly you gain that much CPU that is otherwise also lost on a Windows system. At work it's mandated that we have to keep Norton going in the background all the time, and that can REALLY slow IO at times.

--
---> Kendall
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/user_home
Summer Shoot:
http://www.pbase.com/kgelner/sigmachangingseasonsiibyday

I use a PC at work and a Mac at home. The main difference I see between PC's & Mac's is how they handle the installation & removal of applications.

On the PC side when installing a program WIN2K seems to spray little pieces of the application all over the place. A dll file in this folder another one in another folder, etc. This is why you need a separte program altogether to remove programs. Basically it's going through your system and finding all those files that were sprayed all over the place and deleting them. Sometimes this works OK. Other times it leaves a lot behind, like mouse droppings, if enough of the droppings accumulate system performance begins to slow down.

On the Mac side (OSX) application management is very tidy. Most everything is packed neatly into one place. Meaning, when it's time to remove a program you just drag it into the trash - poof it's gone. All withouth the fuss and mess of dll droppings.

I was a diehard PC user - 386 with DOS 4.11, Desqview, Win 3.0/3.11, 95, 98, ME, NT, 2k, XP. I used to build my own and ended up with my last PC, a Duron 700. Ran relatively well, but due to my digital photo hobby, decided to go Mac.

Biught an iMac in March, 02 with OSX 10.1 on it. Upgraded to Jaguar in late '02, and Panther in '03. Never once reinstalled. Try upgrading from 95 to 98 and then to XP without reinstalling!

And, my system has an average uptime of 30 days, with many times a 60-70 day uptime is normal before I update something.

In short, it's been the most stable system I've ever owned. And my Duron 700 will be my LAST PC.

Not only are 3rd party applications much better behaved in regards to stability and installations and de-installations, OS X is better able to handle apps that decide to go their own way. I've had many Windows apps lock up/bluescreen Windows on me, but anytime I've had problems under OS X, I've always been able to recover. Even if it means dropping to terminal and killing it manually, or waiting several minutes for the beachball of death to stop, I always come back without having to reboot the machine.

In fact, I only reboot on OS X updates, otherwise my PB and my upgraded B&W stay up or in sleep mode.

I've always thought it odd that Windows users had to re-install intermittently. My bro'-in-law uses a PC and it seems he's always re-installing yearly. Maybe he's doing something wrong but he's been using a PC for well over 10 years and knows DOS. As for the Mac, since OS X I've never had to re-install the OS. I think you'll find that the Mac is a breath of fresh air once you get used to the differences in UI and desktop metaphors.

Bob Magluyan said:

First of all let me say I am not a Mac user. I am seriously
thinking going Mac (iBook or PBook as others have kindly suggested
in the 10D forum).

One question is stability. Every Windows OS I have had (I started
with DOS in a 8088 environment) have had to eventually be
re-installed. It takes years but YES, it has to be done. Is the
same for a Mac? Please let me know honestly if this is the case. My
latest OS is Windows 2000. Very stable (relatively) but after three
years, with software being added and removed, it is time for me to
re-install and clean it up. It has slowed down significantly. I
guess you know the amount of time this will take.

I hope that this is not the case with the Mac. Any information you
can give to me in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

Bob

--
BobM

Click to expand...

Rey_G said:

I've always thought it odd that Windows users had to re-install
intermittently. My bro'-in-law uses a PC and it seems he's always
re-installing yearly. Maybe he's doing something wrong but

Click to expand...

Actually when I was using Win 98 I had to reinstall every three months, without doing anything wrong

And I didn't have any games nor tested software on that machine.

Radu Grozescu

http://www.RaduGrozescu.com
Corporate & Editorial Photography

I won't repeat what everyone else said, but I just wanted to tell you this.

I was in my office working. My Mac OX10.3.4 was up as I use it as a webserve too. It never crashes, and the only time it reboots is when I do an upgrade. Anyway, an electrical storm caused a power outage. I had about fifteen apps open listening to iTune when it happened. Of course the whole office went black. Then the power came back on and since my Mac is set to boot after a power outage it did just that. Then in the middle of booting out went the power again. When if finally came on for good and the Mac was able to boot and I logged in I did a fsck and checked the permissions. Nothing was wrong! Nothing needed to be fixed! That journalled file system is great. I can't imagine a more bullet proof system. Since I switched from Wintel I am amazed at these machines.

Apple Computer does a lot things really, really well.

Adopting the FreeBSD Unix deal as the basis for OS X is one of those great things from Apple Computer.

BUT........................

One of the things that they did NOT do too well was implementing the necessary scheduling of the cron scripts, i.e. by default (via Apple engineers) these scripts run at 4:00 AM for the daily, weekly and monthly functions. If you leave your machine on 24/7 then it's no problem. But if you've set your machine to 'go to sleep' after 30 minutes of inactivity and you're not up working at 4:00 AM then these scripts don't get run.

There's several ways around this with the easiest (for some people anyway) is to use the Terminal.app and one of the installed Unix text editors (Vi, Pico, emacs, etc.) and open the cron documents and rewrite the run times.

If that doesn't appeal to you then there are several freeware/shareware applications at VersionTracker.com or MacUpDate.com like Cronnix, OnyX, Cocktail, et al. that you can download and do any number of Unix maintenance processes like repair permissions, run cron scripts, system optimization (NOT defragging) and more.

Jim
--
'When the going gets weird the weird turn pro' - Hunter S. Thompson

But if you've set your machine to 'go to sleep' after

Oregon Jim said:

30 minutes of inactivity and you're not up working at 4:00 AM then
these scripts don't get run.

Click to expand...

I've been leaving my box on several nights a week so the scripts will run. Never thought about the 'sleep' factor. I was hoping tiny little Mac Elves would come out in the wee hours and run the appropriate scripts.

Guess I should put my hands on OnyX. We us that at work and I'm pretty happy with it.

Thanks for the solid info.

Bob Magluyan said:

First of all let me say I am not a Mac user. I am seriously
thinking going Mac (iBook or PBook as others have kindly suggested
in the 10D forum).

One question is stability. Every Windows OS I have had (I started
with DOS in a 8088 environment) have had to eventually be
re-installed. It takes years but YES, it has to be done. Is the
same for a Mac? Please let me know honestly if this is the case. My
latest OS is Windows 2000. Very stable (relatively) but after three
years, with software being added and removed, it is time for me to
re-install and clean it up. It has slowed down significantly. I
guess you know the amount of time this will take.

I hope that this is not the case with the Mac. Any information you
can give to me in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

Bob

Click to expand...

Hi Bob

I bought the new imac when it first came out and I have a Power Book, both running Panther.

I use both machines every day and neither has crashed once, or frozen up. They just work...

Gor

Bob Magluyan said:

--
BobM

Click to expand...

--
Gor

I remember having to reinstall older Windows operating systems periodically, even as recently as Win2k, but I haven't had to reinstall any of my WinXP machines -- they are all working great despite very heavy long-term use.

I think OS X is on the same level. You shouldn't have to reinstall it, but if you visit the discussion forums on the Apple site, you will find that sometimes a reinstall is prescribed to solve a problem. So while in principle you shouldn't have to reinstall, there's no guarantee. You shouldn't have to do it regularly, though.

In fact, Apple's official method of defragmenting the hard drive in OS X is to format the drive and reinstall the OS. (Of course OS X has several nice features that make fragmentation a non-issue in most cases, but my point is that even Apple sometimes suggests you reinstall the OS.)

I think you'll be very pleased with the stability of OS X, but I'm also very pleased with the stability of WinXP.

Bob Magluyan said:

First of all let me say I am not a Mac user. I am seriously
thinking going Mac (iBook or PBook as others have kindly suggested
in the 10D forum).

One question is stability. Every Windows OS I have had (I started
with DOS in a 8088 environment) have had to eventually be
re-installed. It takes years but YES, it has to be done. Is the
same for a Mac? Please let me know honestly if this is the case. My
latest OS is Windows 2000. Very stable (relatively) but after three
years, with software being added and removed, it is time for me to
re-install and clean it up. It has slowed down significantly. I
guess you know the amount of time this will take.

I hope that this is not the case with the Mac. Any information you
can give to me in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

Bob

Click to expand...

I am an employee for a BIG BLUE company and would'nt consider going back to a PC...
As mentioned in Apples ads THEY JUST WORK...

eagle..i

Equipment in profile...

eagle..i said:

I am an employee for a BIG BLUE company and would'nt consider going
back to a PC...
As mentioned in Apples ads THEY JUST WORK...

eagle..i

Equipment in profile...

Click to expand...

I haven't had a hint of considering going back to PC's. Like eagle said, "they just work", and work is what they excel at. I can't remember the last time I had to reboot, search for a driver or had any software conflicts; well I do remember owning a pc once.

--
S404, Nikon N65
http://homepage.mac.com/vanbochoven/PhotoAlbum3.html

I've never experienced such a stable operating system - its far better and easier to deal with than the XP machines we have. OS X is very stable and is also a very smart system in that it optimizes itself "after hours" (as long as its running) so you don't have to get into de-fragging routines.

As far as bang for the buck metrics, Apple's OS X offers real productivity as users don't have to turn themselves into part-time software plumbers just to get work done.

My 2 cents worth

Phil Allsopp

Bob Magluyan said:

First of all let me say I am not a Mac user. I am seriously
thinking going Mac (iBook or PBook as others have kindly suggested
in the 10D forum).

One question is stability. Every Windows OS I have had (I started
with DOS in a 8088 environment) have had to eventually be
re-installed. It takes years but YES, it has to be done. Is the
same for a Mac? Please let me know honestly if this is the case. My
latest OS is Windows 2000. Very stable (relatively) but after three
years, with software being added and removed, it is time for me to
re-install and clean it up. It has slowed down significantly. I
guess you know the amount of time this will take.

I hope that this is not the case with the Mac. Any information you
can give to me in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

Bob

--
BobM

Click to expand...