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Do I really need such a good tripod/ballhead?

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Gymrat1976

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Hi,

Having just sold my firstborn and my left kidney to buy the 70-200 f/2.8VR, I was just poking around the store hoping to pick up a cheap Manfrotto 488RC2 ballhead for my Manfrotto 679B monopod (buying a tripod will have to wait until I'm well enough to sell the house) when the camera shop guy told me that to get a really good and solid mount for my D70 + 70-200VR lens, I should consider getting a Wimberly P-10 plate + Arca Swiss B1 ballhead and a really expensive CF monopod, which I probably couldn't afford anyway at the moment.

It may seem like a dumb question, but I'm kinda wondering if I wanna blow so much money on really high end tripod/ballhead when considering that I bought the VR so that I wouldn't have to use the darned tripod so much in the first place! Is the Manfrotto 488RC2 ballhead on a monopod and/or a ok-priced tripod good enough for my conbination of D70+70-200VR, or should I really save up for the abovementioned conbination?

Still scratching my head over this one..TIA
Jason
 
The VR lens (I own one) is not a substitute for a tripod. A cheap tripod is not a substitute for a good one. Ditto for the head.

For years I used a Manfrotto/Bogen, I think it is the 3021 ... legs sell for about $100. I later got a Ries wooden tripod and what a difference! Now I use a CF Gitzo, but you only need CF if weight is an issue. I like the aluminum Gitzo as long as I don't have to carry it far.

I own a Foba Superball and an Ultimate. The Foba can handle a Sinar P, but is large, expensive, and heavy. The Ultimate does the job for my S2 and XPan. For my Noblex, I just use a Really Right Stuff panning clamp since my Gitzo has a leveling stage built in.

So, research a good, at least midrange, tripod/head for your use and start saving up for it. The least I would recommend is a Gitzo 1340 and Ultimate head for a combined price of around $600.

Denis
 
Gymrat1976 said:
Hi,

Having just sold my firstborn and my left kidney to buy the 70-200
f/2.8VR, I was just poking around the store hoping to pick up a
cheap Manfrotto 488RC2 ballhead for my Manfrotto 679B monopod
(buying a tripod will have to wait until I'm well enough to sell
the house) when the camera shop guy told me that to get a really
good and solid mount for my D70 + 70-200VR lens, I should consider
getting a Wimberly P-10 plate + Arca Swiss B1 ballhead and a really
expensive CF monopod, which I probably couldn't afford anyway at
the moment.

It may seem like a dumb question, but I'm kinda wondering if I
wanna blow so much money on really high end tripod/ballhead when
considering that I bought the VR so that I wouldn't have to use the
darned tripod so much in the first place! Is the Manfrotto 488RC2
ballhead on a monopod and/or a ok-priced tripod good enough for my
conbination of D70+70-200VR, or should I really save up for the
abovementioned conbination?

Still scratching my head over this one..TIA
Jason
Click to expand...
One of the problems of having a cheapo ballhead like the one you are considering is that such indispensable goodies as the L-brackets and camera and lens quick-release (QR) plates sold by third-party vendors such as RRS and Kirk will be incompatible.

When I first started out I also bought a cheap Manfrotto system and now only rarely use it to hold a second flash. Besides, that glued-on cork/rubber pad on the Manfrotto QR plate started to twist when I used it with my heavy AFS 28-70 in vertical format.

I would only recommend an Arca-Swiss style QR system, which has been copied by many less expensive ballhead manufacturers, such as Acratech, Markins.com and Kirk.
 
Denis of Whidbey Island said:
For years I used a Manfrotto/Bogen, I think it is the 3021 ... legs
sell for about $100. I later got a Ries wooden tripod and what a
difference! Now I use a CF Gitzo, but you only need CF if weight is
an issue. I like the aluminum Gitzo as long as I don't have to
carry it far.
Click to expand...
Hmm, have you tried Bogen/Manfrotto Carbon One 3444?

Do you prefer it over some Gitzo model? I am going to buy a CF tripod soon, but am not familiar with the Gitzo models, but they seem to be in the same price range as the 3444 that I am considering (I need a traveling tripod with an integrated bubble level).
Denis of Whidbey Island said:
I own a Foba Superball and an Ultimate. The Foba can handle a Sinar
P, but is large, expensive, and heavy. The Ultimate does the job
for my S2 and XPan. For my Noblex, I just use a Really Right Stuff
panning clamp since my Gitzo has a leveling stage built in.
Click to expand...
There has been recently lots praise for this new head:
http://www.markinsamerica.com/product.php?mod=M10&catname=Ballheads

It is light, precise, superior quality (so they say in the forums, have never seen one...) and can take huge amount of load (weight 510g, load max 40,0 kg!)

I have currently a Bogen 3021 / Manfrotto 055CB tripod and Manfrotto 410 Junior Geared Head, for architectural use, and it is too heawy for travelling.

So I think I will have to buy rather a Bogen 3444 + 3437 combo (Manfrotto 460mg mangnesium 3D head) or some similar setup rather than a ballhead and a CF tripod. But I am open to all ideas you might have for this use!

--
Osku
 
I have done an extensive amount of research on this topic. I think Markins makes the best ball heads. Arca-Swiss are about the same but more costly. Kirk ball heads, don't get favorable reviews for tension control. The Arcatech are very good but at a lower cost than the others and they don't have quite the weight capacity. For the money the Arcatech offers a very good ball head. Gitzo is the cream of the crop in tripods. Plain and simple. Carbon fiber is lighter and the Markins is a light but very strong ball head. The purpose is for you not to have to carry 10 -15 LBS of extra weight besides your camera gear. I read about other tripods and Gitzo is the way to go. Nothing other than good reviews on Gitzo. Same with Markins ball heads. Markins Q-Ball M10 ball head is the way to go or to save some money, Arcatech is also good.
Bob Lang said:
Gymrat1976 said:
Hi,

Having just sold my firstborn and my left kidney to buy the 70-200
f/2.8VR, I was just poking around the store hoping to pick up a
cheap Manfrotto 488RC2 ballhead for my Manfrotto 679B monopod
(buying a tripod will have to wait until I'm well enough to sell
the house) when the camera shop guy told me that to get a really
good and solid mount for my D70 + 70-200VR lens, I should consider
getting a Wimberly P-10 plate + Arca Swiss B1 ballhead and a really
expensive CF monopod, which I probably couldn't afford anyway at
the moment.

It may seem like a dumb question, but I'm kinda wondering if I
wanna blow so much money on really high end tripod/ballhead when
considering that I bought the VR so that I wouldn't have to use the
darned tripod so much in the first place! Is the Manfrotto 488RC2
ballhead on a monopod and/or a ok-priced tripod good enough for my
conbination of D70+70-200VR, or should I really save up for the
abovementioned conbination?

Still scratching my head over this one..TIA
Jason
Click to expand...
One of the problems of having a cheapo ballhead like the one you
are considering is that such indispensable goodies as the
L-brackets and camera and lens quick-release (QR) plates sold by
third-party vendors such as RRS and Kirk will be incompatible.

When I first started out I also bought a cheap Manfrotto system and
now only rarely use it to hold a second flash. Besides, that
glued-on cork/rubber pad on the Manfrotto QR plate started to twist
when I used it with my heavy AFS 28-70 in vertical format.

I would only recommend an Arca-Swiss style QR system, which has
been copied by many less expensive ballhead manufacturers, such as
Acratech, Markins.com and Kirk.
Click to expand...
 
Make sure that you read the information on the link to Thom Hogans website that someone else sent. I would get a Tripod. A monopod will only provide you vertical stability. It is all in Thom Hogans report. Are you going to put a $1600 dollar 70-200VR and a $1000 D70 on something cheap. I would not want to do that. Read these.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=9379272

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=9378046
lawnmower said:
Bob Lang said:
One of the problems of having a cheapo ballhead like the one you
are considering is that such indispensable goodies as the
L-brackets and camera and lens quick-release (QR) plates sold by
third-party vendors such as RRS and Kirk will be incompatible.

When I first started out I also bought a cheap Manfrotto system and
now only rarely use it to hold a second flash. Besides, that
glued-on cork/rubber pad on the Manfrotto QR plate started to twist
when I used it with my heavy AFS 28-70 in vertical format.

I would only recommend an Arca-Swiss style QR system, which has
been copied by many less expensive ballhead manufacturers, such as
Acratech, Markins.com and Kirk.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Get the best that you can afford. A tripod lasts a liftime with care. I have a bunch of Manfrotto tripods that hardly ever see the light of day now that I use Gitzo CF's. I mainly loan them to others or use them when the going is really rough. A good head (I would recommend a Kirk over an Arca Swiss - mine locks up too much), and a 13xx tripod is the way to go. Forget about a CF monopod unless you need to save a few ounces - the stability (or lack of) doesn't depnd on the monopod as much as it does on you. Definitely use RRS or Kirk plates.

Wayne
Gymrat1976 said:
Hi,

Having just sold my firstborn and my left kidney to buy the 70-200
f/2.8VR, I was just poking around the store hoping to pick up a
cheap Manfrotto 488RC2 ballhead for my Manfrotto 679B monopod
(buying a tripod will have to wait until I'm well enough to sell
the house) when the camera shop guy told me that to get a really
good and solid mount for my D70 + 70-200VR lens, I should consider
getting a Wimberly P-10 plate + Arca Swiss B1 ballhead and a really
expensive CF monopod, which I probably couldn't afford anyway at
the moment.

It may seem like a dumb question, but I'm kinda wondering if I
wanna blow so much money on really high end tripod/ballhead when
considering that I bought the VR so that I wouldn't have to use the
darned tripod so much in the first place! Is the Manfrotto 488RC2
ballhead on a monopod and/or a ok-priced tripod good enough for my
conbination of D70+70-200VR, or should I really save up for the
abovementioned conbination?

Still scratching my head over this one..TIA
Jason
Click to expand...
 
Thanks everyone for your input.. pardon me for asking another silly question:

If I DO decide to get the quick release plate (such as Wimberly/Kirk), I would put that on the tripod foot of the 70-200VR, right? What about when I need the tripod for my D70 with smaller lenses, i.e. mount the CAMERA on the tripod head as opposed to the lens. Do I need another QR plate for the bottom of my camera (is there even such a thing??)

TIA
Jason
Gymrat1976 said:
Hi,

Having just sold my firstborn and my left kidney to buy the 70-200
f/2.8VR, I was just poking around the store hoping to pick up a
cheap Manfrotto 488RC2 ballhead for my Manfrotto 679B monopod
(buying a tripod will have to wait until I'm well enough to sell
the house) when the camera shop guy told me that to get a really
good and solid mount for my D70 + 70-200VR lens, I should consider
getting a Wimberly P-10 plate + Arca Swiss B1 ballhead and a really
expensive CF monopod, which I probably couldn't afford anyway at
the moment.

It may seem like a dumb question, but I'm kinda wondering if I
wanna blow so much money on really high end tripod/ballhead when
considering that I bought the VR so that I wouldn't have to use the
darned tripod so much in the first place! Is the Manfrotto 488RC2
ballhead on a monopod and/or a ok-priced tripod good enough for my
conbination of D70+70-200VR, or should I really save up for the
abovementioned conbination?

Still scratching my head over this one..TIA
Jason
Click to expand...
 
I'm using a Manfrotti 3021BPRO tripod with a Kirk BH-1 with my 70-200mm VR lens and it is a dream combination--very stable, smooth as silk ball head, very secure. The combo was not cheap--around $600 with the Kirk QR replacement plate for the 70-200mm VR lens, but less than CF, which I don't need as I prefer to "travel light" when hiking the back country and even a CF tripod with head is NOT light when hiking the Rockies!

And yes, you would "need" a QR plate for each lens or camera body that you plan to use with the ball head. The Kirk currenty comes with a universal QR plate which I have permanently installed on my D70. And they make plates for virtually all of the Nikon lenses which might require one.

You could use a universal QR plate and switch it from lens to lens to body, but then it's no longer "QR"! They cost about $50-75 @.

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for the info. I noticed that Kirk seems to be a popular choice for QR plates. How do they compare with Wimberly plates?

Cheers
Jason
snapshotdoc said:
I'm using a Manfrotti 3021BPRO tripod with a Kirk BH-1 with my
70-200mm VR lens and it is a dream combination--very stable, smooth
as silk ball head, very secure. The combo was not cheap--around
$600 with the Kirk QR replacement plate for the 70-200mm VR lens,
but less than CF, which I don't need as I prefer to "travel light"
when hiking the back country and even a CF tripod with head is NOT
light when hiking the Rockies!

And yes, you would "need" a QR plate for each lens or camera body
that you plan to use with the ball head. The Kirk currenty comes
with a universal QR plate which I have permanently installed on my
D70. And they make plates for virtually all of the Nikon lenses
which might require one.

You could use a universal QR plate and switch it from lens to lens
to body, but then it's no longer "QR"! They cost about $50-75 @.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
 
Gymrat1976 said:
Thanks for the info. I noticed that Kirk seems to be a popular
choice for QR plates. How do they compare with Wimberly plates?
Click to expand...
Wimberley plates come with 2 safety stop screws, one at each end of the plate. This prevents your load from sliding out of the QR clamp if the clamp is loosened inadvertently.

I wouldn't buy a universal camera plate because they don't have an anti-twist flange just like the cheapo Manfrotto plates, which defeats the whole purpose of the Arca-Swiss style QR. Notice the 2 anti-twist flanges on the RRS plate for the D70:

 
Osku said:
Hmm, have you tried Bogen/Manfrotto Carbon One 3444?

Do you prefer it over some Gitzo model? I am going to buy a CF
tripod soon, but am not familiar with the Gitzo models, but they
seem to be in the same price range as the 3444 that I am
considering (I need a traveling tripod with an integrated bubble
level).
Click to expand...
You really have to use a Gitzo to appreciate the difference, at least in the aluminum tripods. My experience is that it's like the difference between an Explorer and a Suburban.

Denis
 
lawnmower said:
Markins Q-Ball M10 ball head is the way
to go or to save some money, Arcatech is also good.
Click to expand...
How do the weights compare? My Acratech is really light, which I like with my Gitzo 1227LVL tripod.

Denis
 
The QR system is the only way to go. I've used it with everything from my S2 to a Roundshot Super 220 VR. Get a dedicated right angle plate for your camera so you can shoot verticals with footless lenses without flopping the ball head. Get the replacement foot for your 70-200, not the add-on plate.

My first Kirk product was the old, heavy bracket for the 80-200 before it had a foot. Soon after, I discovered Really Right Stuff with their much more elegantly designed and executed products. Kirk has responded to the competition and refined its products, mimicking RRS designs (so it would seem).

The competition has produced some great products and we all benefit from it. My last purchases were a RRS panning clamp and a Kirk replacement foot for the 70-200VR. I'm very happy with both. The RRS foot for 70-200 seems slightly more elegant, but I saw no benefit to justify its higher price.

Denis
 
I recommend small Kaiser Pro ballhead ($70) and RRS A/S clamp ($72) for D70 + 70-200VR combination. This headball and clamp combination is just over 12 ounces. You can combine this ballhead with a Bogen 3001N for $220 support solution. I'm using this ballhead on my Gitzo G1128 but I also use Acratech ballhead which is only 3oz heavier but it is also double in price.
Gymrat1976 said:
Hi,

Having just sold my firstborn and my left kidney to buy the 70-200
f/2.8VR, I was just poking around the store hoping to pick up a
cheap Manfrotto 488RC2 ballhead for my Manfrotto 679B monopod
(buying a tripod will have to wait until I'm well enough to sell
the house) when the camera shop guy told me that to get a really
good and solid mount for my D70 + 70-200VR lens, I should consider
getting a Wimberly P-10 plate + Arca Swiss B1 ballhead and a really
expensive CF monopod, which I probably couldn't afford anyway at
the moment.

It may seem like a dumb question, but I'm kinda wondering if I
wanna blow so much money on really high end tripod/ballhead when
considering that I bought the VR so that I wouldn't have to use the
darned tripod so much in the first place! Is the Manfrotto 488RC2
ballhead on a monopod and/or a ok-priced tripod good enough for my
conbination of D70+70-200VR, or should I really save up for the
abovementioned conbination?

Still scratching my head over this one..TIA
Jason
Click to expand...
 
I feel your pain. I've been doing a lot of research as well trying to find the right combination at a price that I could live with. I initially looked at a "cheaper" combo like the Manfrotto 3443D and Acratech Ultimate ballhead. I think this is a nice combo, but maybe a little too lightweight.

I have now moved to a plan that includes a Gitzo 1228 and Markins M-10. I would also make some of the modifications suggested on Nikonians by removing the center post of the Gitzo and adding the Markins TB-20 tripod base.

For me, this will make for a good combination of weight, capacity, and price. The Gitzo 1325 is tempting as well, but I think I prefer the 1228. I don't want to end up with a combo I don't want to carry, so I'm trying to keep it reasonably light and compact.

I'm also planning on an L-bracket for my D100 and a QR plate for the 70-200 VR. I'll get these from RRS.

Good luck,
BB
 
Denis of Whidbey Island said:
You really have to use a Gitzo to appreciate the difference, at
least in the aluminum tripods. My experience is that it's like the
difference between an Explorer and a Suburban.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I already found the G1228LVL from their site, and unfortunately also the price (was about $680 @ BH)... If I will buy a new tripod, now it seems to have an "if", I will buy the LVL-model, since for my use it seems the only fast and light solution, since if I have understood it correctly, it can be levelled by releasing some knob and having weight added to the centre column, and the it just is leveled (and there is some bubble level also to verify the success).

So I would also need a good ballhead, since I found out theat he Manfrottos 460mg mangnesium head is not a geared head as my current ven it looks rather similar, and so I could not use it. So it seems the Markins M10 is the way to go, but together these are rather expensive, over 900 EUR + shipping + VAT (comparable to 1420 USD). That is almost 5 times more than my current Manfrotto...

So I will see if I buy a lighter and shorter monopod (Cullmann Magic) and try to find out how long I can hold without seeing any difference (usually use 12-24 in FF so camera shake is not so big problem). But the leveling is, so I will try to get my self convinced to buy a G1228LVL + M10 combo in the future.

--
Osku
 
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