Z3 and Z10 comments

Helen

Veteran Member
Messages
7,606
Solutions
66
Reaction score
4,199
Location
UK
Well, the new Z3 looks very interesting - I'm a Panasonic FZ10 owner so it's interesting to finally see a direct competitor. I did briefly own a Z1 which had the all-too-common problem with a sticking switch finder, so I am glad to see that there is a separate EVF on the Z3. I haven't quite decided whether the Z3 is nice-looking or not - I could never decide with the Z1 and Z2 either, and I haven't come to a conclusion of whether it's a stylistic improvement - but I am certain that the Z10 looks dreadful (to me, anyway)! The buttons around the back are very uninspiring in design...the whole effect seems rather toylike on that one. The Z3 is certainly better.

Back to the Z3 - I wonder if the choice of silver or black will be available everywhere, or certain colours for certain markets? I am envious of the small size for a 12x zoom camera (335g? very impressive - the lens when retracted looks remarkably compact) and the movie modes (BTW - is the lipsync problem the Z1 had fixed yet?).

However, there are a couple of things I am concerned about. 1.5" for the monitor is a bit small these days, though bearable - but the resolution is unusually low at 78,000 pixels. The EVF looks better at 118,000, though it's still the minimum that this class of camera comes with (same as on my FZ10 - the current Olympuses and the Kyocera M410R especially have considerably more EVF resolution - on paper at least).

My main concern, though, is the maximum aperture of the lens at full zoom - f4.5 is pretty slow (remember, the FZ10 maintains f2.8 even at 12x zoom and it is undoubtedly what makes the lens so large, but I think it is worth it - at least with my example, the focusing sensitivity and speed remains very good even at full zoom [as it takes place via that wide-open aperture] Like most of these large-zoom cameras, the FZ10 has no AF illuminator either). What makes me concerned about the f4.5 maximum aperture is that I don't see any sign of the external passive AF sensor of the other Z series (even the Z10) and nor can I make out an AF illuminator. Obviously nothing will be truly discovered until the camera is out there being used and tested (they don't always perform the way you expect from the spec - and it cuts both ways) but I wondered what you all thought? Being stabilised, the f4.5 restriction isn't such an issue regarding requiring the use of slower shutter speeds as it would be in an unstabilised camera, but it is half a stop down on the previous smallest full-zoom maximum aperture - f3.7 - on the Z2 and the Olympuses (oh, and the Kodak DX6490 - I think the 10x lens used on all those cameras is suspiciously similar...).
 
I don't
see any sign of the external passive AF sensor of the other Z
series (even the Z10) and nor can I make out an AF illuminator.
There is no AF light, but not sure about the passive AF. Would it be possible without it to focus in 0.2 secs, as KM claims?
 
I don't
see any sign of the external passive AF sensor of the other Z
series (even the Z10) and nor can I make out an AF illuminator.
There is no AF light, but not sure about the passive AF. Would it
be possible without it to focus in 0.2 secs, as KM claims?
I'm intrigued by that claim too. And I notice they aren't bandying about the 60 fps figures of the Z1/Z2 either. But surely, if it had the external passive broad range-finding sensors, we would be able to see them - especially on the clear illustrations of a silver Z3 on the Dimage website (the one for worldwide consumption)? They are usually pretty prominent and can still clearly be seen on the Z10 (who on earth designed that?!). Maybe the Z3 has a hybrid TTL system? But I'm not sure that's been done before - most hybrid systems have something visible on the outside of the camera (see several of the 8MP models). Come to think of it, does the maybe A1/A2 have a combined TTL system? I expect their many fans could easily answer that one.
 
On another note - I find it extremely ridiculous, that minolta is still coupling the camera with a measly 16mb SD-card.

I bought my dimage Xi like.. 3-4 years ago, and I got a 16mb SD-card with it back then.... with the prices down like they are, why aren't minolta at least giving 64mb? - I'm sure they could buy at discounted prices, so a 64mb would cost them like 10 bucks...
 
why aren't minolta at least giving 64mb? - I'm sure they could buy
at discounted prices, so a 64mb would cost them like 10 bucks...
Better yet, they shouldn't give any card and lower the price accordingly. Most people start with putting the 16MB card to the bottom of a drawer and buy 256 or 512 MB
 
Hi Helen,
Well, the new Z3 looks very interesting - I'm a Panasonic FZ10
owner so it's interesting to finally see a direct competitor. I
did briefly own a Z1 which had the all-too-common problem with a
sticking switch finder, so I am glad to see that there is a
separate EVF on the Z3. I haven't quite decided whether the Z3 is
nice-looking or not - I could never decide with the Z1 and Z2
either, and I haven't come to a conclusion of whether it's a
stylistic improvement - but I am certain that the Z10 looks
dreadful (to me, anyway)! The buttons around the back are very
uninspiring in design...the whole effect seems rather toylike on
that one. The Z3 is certainly better.
Form follows function. I'm not much concerned how a camera looks, to me they're all more or less ugly appliances.
Back to the Z3 - I wonder if the choice of silver or black will be
available everywhere, or certain colours for certain markets? I am
envious of the small size for a 12x zoom camera (335g? very
impressive - the lens when retracted looks remarkably compact) and
the movie modes (BTW - is the lipsync problem the Z1 had fixed
yet?).
I'd wonder if the weight is without batteries. With batteries it might be the same as your Panasonic.
However, there are a couple of things I am concerned about. 1.5"
for the monitor is a bit small these days, though bearable - but
the resolution is unusually low at 78,000 pixels. The EVF looks
better at 118,000, though it's still the minimum that this class of
camera comes with (same as on my FZ10 - the current Olympuses and
the Kyocera M410R especially have considerably more EVF resolution
  • on paper at least).
A better EVF would be better, but that may just be something you get at this price point.
My main concern, though, is the maximum aperture of the lens at
full zoom - f4.5 is pretty slow (remember, the FZ10 maintains f2.8
even at 12x zoom and it is undoubtedly what makes the lens so
large, but I think it is worth it - at least with my example, the
focusing sensitivity and speed remains very good even at full zoom
[as it takes place via that wide-open aperture]
I'd say f/4.5 is quite fast actually. But yes, 2.8 would be better, and the constant aperture is a big plus for the Panasonic. You have to realize though that if Minolta can handle the noise a bit better than Panasonic, and I suspect they can, that stop advantage could disappear completely due to a higher ISO.

But ultimately I'd think that the choice will be made on performance and ergonomics. The Panasonic images don't have the greatest contrast or bokeh, and I'd give up a stop+ for those without too much issue. The AF speed and accuracy will also be important .........

The other positive for the Minolta is the amount of control you have. There are a lot of settings which the Panasonic seems to have forgone, perhaps by design to appeal to its target market (nothing wrong with that BTW). And the progressive capture could be awesome for some applications.

In a totally different vein, the macro capability of the camera also seems rather amazing at 1cm ...........

All in all, I'd say this may be the first successor to the Oly EZI. We'll have to wait of course to see the images, but I'd say this is one heck of a camera. IMHO of course.

DSC
 
My Z3 disappointment is that they did not move the zoom range down to 28mm equivalent.
Jack G
 
Seeing the spec, I want to buy this camera, unfortunately only a couple of days ago I bought an A2.

I found the Z3 is superior to FZ10 in many respects:
  • AA Batteries, not a big deal for most, but for those who carry more than one camera.
  • (Hopefully) Faster AF.
  • TTL Hotshoe. YES! Put in on AUTO and just press the shutter release button.
The rest is the same with FZ10, 4Mp, 12x Optical zoom, SD Card and Image stabiliser. The only drawback I can see is the variable aperture zoom, but it is not a big deal.
 
I don't
see any sign of the external passive AF sensor of the other Z
series (even the Z10) and nor can I make out an AF illuminator.
There is no AF light, but not sure about the passive AF. Would it
be possible without it to focus in 0.2 secs, as KM claims?
I'm intrigued by that claim too. [snip]
I don't think their 0.2 sec claim says anything about being in low light :-). My guess is that's in "good" lighting, but as has been stated, we won't know until someone can try it out.
 
There's one thing you guys aren't considering on the Panasonic, the name LEICA written on the lenses ;)
 
Seeing the spec, I want to buy this camera, unfortunately only a couple of days ago I bought an A2. I found the Z3 is superior to FZ10 in many respects:
  • AA Batteries, not a big deal for most, but for those who carry more than one camera.
  • (Hopefully) Faster AF.
  • TTL Hotshoe. YES! Put in on AUTO and just press the shutter release button.
The rest is the same with FZ10, 4Mp, 12x Optical zoom, SD Card and Image stabiliser. The only drawback I can see is the variable aperture zoom, but it is not a big deal.
Hmmm, i would say that is a considerable point in the FZ10's favor. But i am interested in the sensor: Are these comparable sensors? The same light gathering power? i am interested in an inexpensive high quality complement to my A1. Looking mostly for good light, and long range situations, eg nature. The FZ10 lens gives it a leg there, especially if it has a better sensor.
greg
 
It's a marketing trick.

People that know will get a FAST 256MB+ SD or MM card.

Packaging it with the "right card" will make the marketing stance (with a higher price) more of a challenge against the competitors. Now the coup will be if one of the major manufacturers can overcome that and start with a 128Mb as standard.

The question is of course whether it won't actually be a 32MB card ;) Which will still go to the drawer, but twice as useful as the 16MB (duh!).

If KM says on their site: "Storage capacity (approx. number of frames* using 16 MB SD card)" ...then it doesn't mean that it will be shipped with a 16MB card...it is just a standard way of comparing/indicating storage capacity.
On another note - I find it extremely ridiculous, that minolta is
still coupling the camera with a measly 16mb SD-card.
I bought my dimage Xi like.. 3-4 years ago, and I got a 16mb
SD-card with it back then.... with the prices down like they are,
why aren't minolta at least giving 64mb? - I'm sure they could buy
at discounted prices, so a 64mb would cost them like 10 bucks...
 
My main concern, though, is the maximum aperture of the lens at
full zoom - f4.5 is pretty slow (remember, the FZ10 maintains f2.8
even at 12x zoom and it is undoubtedly what makes the lens so
large, but I think it is worth it - at least with my example, the
focusing sensitivity and speed remains very good even at full zoom
[as it takes place via that wide-open aperture] Like most of these
large-zoom cameras, the FZ10 has no AF illuminator either). What
makes me concerned about the f4.5 maximum aperture is that I don't
see any sign of the external passive AF sensor of the other Z
series (even the Z10) and nor can I make out an AF illuminator.
Helen:

The brightness of the lens, will decrease proportionately as more zoom is used. Chances are, you're not going to be at a 420mm equivalent focal length at close range anyway (where the aperture will increase to it's smallest value), and most Autofocus Illuminators have a very limited effective range.

In addition, I hate autofocus illuminators. They can ruin the facial expressions on your subjects, making it difficult to get candid (or more natural looking) looking photos.

The new "Predictive Focus" system, using a dedicated ASIC sounds very promising. I look forward to the reviews of this model.

--
JimC
------
http://www.pbase.com/jcockfield/konica_kd510z
 
[To quote a TV character from the 70's]

After a quick look on the company website (from a link on Jeff's page), I perceive the Z-10 as an uptick on the Z-1 and .....

After a more complete look at the Z-3, I see it as a move up from the Z-2, with its Anti-Shake, longer zoom, slightly wider angle (from 38mm to 35mm), a regular type LCD, and the like.

I almost bought a Z-2, but ended up with an A-1.

Depending on the price, the Z-3 could make a nice companion for the A-1, sharing the same adapter, for instance, providing the much longer zoom, better movie mode, and possibly better action shots. The only? drawback would be the need for different memory cards, as well as the different battery situation.

This might be overlooked in the big picture, with no need for a long-range teleconverter for the A-1, and probably no need for a wide-angle converter for the Z-3.

As usual, will wait for pricing info and reviews before making any precipitous moves.

Just my initial take on things.

Cheers. Rad Dad.
 
My main concern, though, is the maximum aperture of the lens at
full zoom - f4.5 is pretty slow (remember, the FZ10 maintains f2.8
even at 12x zoom and it is undoubtedly what makes the lens so
large, but I think it is worth it - at least with my example, the
focusing sensitivity and speed remains very good even at full zoom
[as it takes place via that wide-open aperture] Like most of these
large-zoom cameras, the FZ10 has no AF illuminator either). What
makes me concerned about the f4.5 maximum aperture is that I don't
see any sign of the external passive AF sensor of the other Z
series (even the Z10) and nor can I make out an AF illuminator.
Helen:

The brightness of the lens, will decrease proportionately as more
zoom is used. Chances are, you're not going to be at a 420mm
equivalent focal length at close range anyway (where the aperture
will increase to it's smallest value), and most Autofocus
Illuminators have a very limited effective range.
Indeed it does, and you're right about the limited usefulness of AF illuminators on big-zoom cameras like this - which is presumably why most manufacturers leave them off. But it's still a slight concern when the TTL AF system has less light available to it - f4.5 is more than a stop slower than f2.8, so it will be receiving less than half the light. Each system is different, so hopefully Minolta's will counter this possible limitation by having high speed and high sensitivity to offset it. We'll see once people are buying and using them.
In addition, I hate autofocus illuminators. They can ruin the
facial expressions on your subjects, making it difficult to get
candid (or more natural looking) looking photos.
Yes - I'd certainly hope for an "off" option on any camera with an AF illuminator. They're pretty useless for closeups ("macro") too, since they invariably fire over the subject due to parallax issues.
The new "Predictive Focus" system, using a dedicated ASIC sounds
very promising. I look forward to the reviews of this model.
Me too. I use and really enjoy an FZ10 but I'm not averse to seeing where the competition improves things!
Helen
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top