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My friends and otf members...

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First I'd like to say that your spenglish is far better than my norwegish...LOL

ANd I sure don't mind anything that would bring otf back on track, giving the new members the same opportunity of learning as I had a while back. With this I refere to your excellent challenge.

And so to the subject... Just to make myself clear. I never ment to imply that the hardening of tone among the members of otf was related to the newcomers. Not at all! And I sure don't mind the otf from changin as long as it change for the better, and not for the worse. As I tried to say in my initial post, I would like for the new members to feel as home and welcomed as I did when I bacame a member. And I want them to have the same opportunity to learn from their posts as I had. And still have for that matter. Only lately I feel the feedback have become less constructive, and the conflicts among members more frequent. And this is a what I don't approve of.

And note, my friend, that imo the conflicts and lack of valuable feedback is not only related to new members, but just as much the oldies.

And again...this is generally speaking, and exceptions do exist!

--
TrondN 'The Frozen Viking'
C730UZ + Raynox DCR-1540 Pro, DCR-6600 Pro, DCR-250 and Promaster 5750DX
http://www.home.no/trond-nordland



Comments, criticism and suggestions always appreciated.
 
..could be gracious and not post as many photos and allow the people's posts who are getting ignored a chance to be seen.

Cliques occur because people have been together a long time and know each other and have formed a cyberspace relationship. It's just human nature to interact with those you're most familiar with.

As for thanks to your comments, this is something I have experienced often myself and I chalk it up to the individual not knowing it's proper forum etiquette to respond. It's been my experience that it's generally the same people who do this. Or it may be that they just don't want to. I have to say that doesn't bother as much as other things.

28 kbs? I don't know how you do it at all!! I'm at 50 kbs and some of the photos are so large, it takes me minutes to download them. Is your phone line noisy? I've had those kind of slow speeds when it rains and water gets into the line somewhere.

Karen

http://www.pbase.com/kstuebin



'Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees.'

Last words of General Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson, killed in error by his own troops at the battle of Chancellorsvillle during the US Civil War, 1863.
 
If someone responds to my post, I'm going to thank them individually. Otherwise, how would they even know I read it after they took the time to make it? The worst, and this has happened to me, is when everyone else in a thread gets thanked except me. Then I start worrying about that ignore list someone mentioned. But as someone pointed out to me, they may have just missed mine. But then again, given my blunt personality, maybe not. LOL.

Karen

http://www.pbase.com/kstuebin



'Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees.'

Last words of General Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson, killed in error by his own troops at the battle of Chancellorsvillle during the US Civil War, 1863.
 
I know you didn't mean it this way, but saying we have a "brain drain" due to oldtimers buying new cameras and leaving sounds kinda insulting to newcomers. At least it read that way to me. Just thought I'd put that in before someone took offense. I know Inigo and I'm sure that wasn't what he was implying.

Karen

http://www.pbase.com/kstuebin



'Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees.'

Last words of General Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson, killed in error by his own troops at the battle of Chancellorsvillle during the US Civil War, 1863.
 
Hi Karen
I respect your talent and your photos expertise.
forum etiquette is the answer.

If you make a post an answer is necessary: thank the people who answered and tried to help you. Only polite. Either group or individual . If you do not answer , why do you post, and it is rude not to answer.
KarenInWV said:
..could be gracious and not post as many photos and allow the
people's posts who are getting ignored a chance to be seen.

Cliques occur because people have been together a long time and
know each other and have formed a cyberspace relationship. It's
just human nature to interact with those you're most familiar with.

As for thanks to your comments, this is something I have
experienced often myself and I chalk it up to the individual not
knowing it's proper forum etiquette to respond. It's been my
experience that it's generally the same people who do this. Or it
may be that they just don't want to. I have to say that doesn't
bother as much as other things.

28 kbs? I don't know how you do it at all!! I'm at 50 kbs and some
of the photos are so large, it takes me minutes to download them.
Is your phone line noisy? I've had those kind of slow speeds when
it rains and water gets into the line somewhere.

Karen

http://www.pbase.com/kstuebin



'Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees.'

Last words of General Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson, killed in error
by his own troops at the battle of Chancellorsvillle during the US
Civil War, 1863.
Click to expand...
 
AJohn said:
I can't help but think that I am one of the people this is directed
towards. As Wayne and others have said, I rarely make a critical
comment because I have no business doing so with my beginners level
of knowledge.
Click to expand...
Hi Andy,

it's not because you "rarely make a critical comment" that your feedback is not appreciated. I remember you giving feedback on one of my pics (the pelicans), pointing out why you thought the picture was a comical one. I really appreciated that comment, it "objectivised" (is that a word in English??) my feeling about it.

I don't dare to say a lot about the "phototechnical" aspects either, but commenting on the composition can be every bit as helpful, and maybe a bit less daunting for newbies.

Don't know if that makes a lot of sense, actually. Hope you get my drift.

Regards,

muriel
 
Karen , I actually understand you. That is scary.

You mentioned that you were a redneck and not afraid of a fight. Me too, although a Canadian . A redneck is a person who puts his new TV on top of his new tv. Guess what, I just bought a new TV.
KarenInWV said:
If someone responds to my post, I'm going to thank them
individually. Otherwise, how would they even know I read it after
they took the time to make it? The worst, and this has happened to
me, is when everyone else in a thread gets thanked except me. Then
I start worrying about that ignore list someone mentioned. But as
someone pointed out to me, they may have just missed mine. But then
again, given my blunt personality, maybe not. LOL.

Karen

http://www.pbase.com/kstuebin



'Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees.'

Last words of General Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson, killed in error
by his own troops at the battle of Chancellorsvillle during the US
Civil War, 1863.
Click to expand...
 
Wayne, Andy, and Judy. I'm a newbie, which I've made clear in several posts, and so I hesitate to offer criticism unless I'm pretty sure it makes sense, and even then I've made a few mistakes:( I tend only to offer criticism to people who make it clear in several posts that they would like critical feedback. But even then, I'm just often in a position where I don't have the knowledge or skill to offer constructive criticism. Most often, I'm comfortable reposting information that I've learned from the forum for people asking specific questions.

When I say I like something, it's because I really do, even if it's only a short comment. When I can, I try to make my praise more specific, by pointing out features of the photo that really strike me. Or, I demonstrate my appreciation of the photo by asking the person how they did something, like the metering or such. Sometimes people have pointed out to me what's good about my newbie pics, when I tend to only see the faults. Pointing out what works gives me a base to build on, which I have appreciated. I've also greatly appreciated any comments that can steer me away from making the same mistakes!!!!!

To be honest, with the busy lives we all have, it astonishes me how much time many people have devoted to responding with specific comments on this forum. I have copied and pasted pages and pages of advice, rules of thumb, techniques, etc. In fact, it feels to me like I've participated on a photography class over the past two months, for free! My pictures with my new 8080 are much, much better than they would ever have been without this forum.

On the topic of thanks to responses, I agree mostly with Wayne. I haven't always said thanks, but when I have I've really meant it. I don't think that's been needy: it's mostly a sign of my truly felt appreciation.

Marc (geisman)
 
Liquid,

Thanks for your thoughts. I understand where you are coming from, and I suppose we just see things a bit differently.

I absolutely don't mind if someone posts a quick "nice shot (nt)" or a "thanks (nt)" - in fact I appreciate it (if they have more to say, then that's great). I have a full appreciation for how busy people are and how busy this forum is. I for one simply don't have the time to post indepth responses (let alone catch all of the threads), even though I truly would like to be able to do so. So instead of just moving on if I don't have the time, I will try to post at least a brief note with the hope that the recipient will appreciates it.

Regards,
Wayne
http://www.pbase.com/wayne_n
(Comments and critiques always welcome!)
 
Actually new TV on top of old TV is a redneck.

Actually , responding with a comment to a poster is only polite. It is the way it should be.!!!!!!!!!!!

HMMMMM I would say , another two Crown Royals neat , I could be downright viscious!!!!! Not good.
Really I do not bite,,,,,,,,,,, sometimes.
G. Gray said:
KarenInWV said:
If someone responds to my post, I'm going to thank them
individually. Otherwise, how would they even know I read it after
they took the time to make it? The worst, and this has happened to
me, is when everyone else in a thread gets thanked except me. Then
I start worrying about that ignore list someone mentioned. But as
someone pointed out to me, they may have just missed mine. But then
again, given my blunt personality, maybe not. LOL.

Karen

http://www.pbase.com/kstuebin



'Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees.'

Last words of General Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson, killed in error
by his own troops at the battle of Chancellorsvillle during the US
Civil War, 1863.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
..my intention here.

I really doesn't expect newies to give much constructive criticism, rather than acting exactly as you say. Of course it's ok to say a picture is awesom, excellent or whatever if that is what you think of it. But lately the more experienced shooters have failed in giving constructive feedback.

This post is ment to be more of a "kick in the but" to the oldies. It was never my intention to meke the newbies feel forced to give criticism they're not capable of.

If you was criticized for suggesting applying NeatImage to someones picture, that just states my point. The person should be happy to receive your offered suggestin!

And the use of humor is what we need more of around here. Of course we still have humorous threads, and thank God for that. But it's my impression that humor is loosing terrain over quarrel.

Andy, I'm a humorous guy, ask anyone around here. Most of the "oldies" have suffered from my sharp tonque, and I can't remember ever being flamed for it. So this is an unusually serious post for me.

All I want is the new members to feel welcome, and taken care of. And I want the flaming and trolling to end...if at all possible.

--
TrondN 'The Frozen Viking'
C730UZ + Raynox DCR-1540 Pro, DCR-6600 Pro, DCR-250 and Promaster 5750DX
http://www.home.no/trond-nordland



Comments, criticism and suggestions always appreciated.
 
Sorry I got the wrong end of your viking wrath, but you did invade us once before and may be planning to do it again!
lol
no hard feelings.
xx lol
Trond N said:
I never ment to speak badly of any newbie. Quite the contrary. I
remember well when I become a member, and I only wish the newcomers
to fell as welcome as I did at the time.
And about the anonymous gripes... Actually I don't think they were
newcomers...

--
TrondN 'The Frozen Viking'
C730UZ + Raynox DCR-1540 Pro, DCR-6600 Pro, DCR-250 and Promaster
5750DX
http://www.home.no/trond-nordland



Comments, criticism and suggestions always appreciated.
Click to expand...
--
Paul....

'if something bad happens, it's because something better is going to.'

C8080, lexar 512 40x wa, no brain

http://www.thewildlifepark.fotopic.net

 
Some of the kindness and friedliness and helpfulness has left otf. And the lack of gratitude and politeness is just as bad.

Don't get me wrong, I still feel otf is a valuable forum. But what I would like, is for you and others like you, to feel more welcome and appreciated.

--
TrondN 'The Frozen Viking'
C730UZ + Raynox DCR-1540 Pro, DCR-6600 Pro, DCR-250 and Promaster 5750DX
http://www.home.no/trond-nordland



Comments, criticism and suggestions always appreciated.
 
Posting individual replies (thanks (nt) and the like) is not imo being needy, but rather being polite. But of course it's not necessary doing so. But posting a "Thanks you all" at the end of the thread, showing appreciation for the replies, is the least anyone should expect.

For the most I try to post individual replies, and I'm not at all afraid saying I'm a little needy...LOL.

--
TrondN 'The Frozen Viking'
C730UZ + Raynox DCR-1540 Pro, DCR-6600 Pro, DCR-250 and Promaster 5750DX
http://www.home.no/trond-nordland



Comments, criticism and suggestions always appreciated.
 
Wayne,

I am with you Wayne

I would love to be able to provide thoughtful coments.
But, I don't have thoughtful things to say :( ... not even for this thred LOL

I'm not funny ... except for the Mistakes that I have posted on this forum.

But, I have learned a lot ... and owe a lot to this forum and it's members.

So, I feel BAD ... when members look in, and comment on my pics, and I cannot do the same for them.
And I "do" feel the need sometimes to Thank
Each and Every member that comments on my post ...
because I don't know when I will get another chance to Thank them.

Unfortunatly, I have to still work for a living ... and my wife feels I spend already ... too much time on this forum.
So, I have to get in and out on this forum ... while I am working.
and hopefully, I will not get caught.

So, if I can ... I want to post as many ...
  • nice shot (nt) ... yes, while I was LURKing to try to learn something .... I saw your post and wanted to let you know.
Wayne N. said:
Liquid,

Thanks for your thoughts. I understand where you are coming from,
and I suppose we just see things a bit differently.

I absolutely don't mind if someone posts a quick "nice shot (nt)"
or a "thanks (nt)" - in fact I appreciate it (if they have more to
say, then that's great). I have a full appreciation for how busy
people are and how busy this forum is. I for one simply don't have
the time to post indepth responses (let alone catch all of the
threads), even though I truly would like to be able to do so. So
instead of just moving on if I don't have the time, I will try to
post at least a brief note with the hope that the recipient will
appreciates it.

Regards,
Wayne
http://www.pbase.com/wayne_n
(Comments and critiques always welcome!)
Click to expand...
--
New to Photography ... I need a lot of HELP!
but, learning quickly by reading this forum.
Love, my travel 'worthy' c-5050 now with ver82 & my new toy:
The 11.5 hour Toshiba Tecra M2 travel Notebook
Favorite c-5050 site: http://wrotniak.net/photo/c5050/

 
Karen,
blunt ? hmmm
i think you have been always nice to newbies like me.
I view you as a little "soft" like a great portrait shot

Ok, so I felt the need to post a reply to KarenWV ...
I have not seen a post from her, when I loged on lately.
KarenInWV said:
If someone responds to my post, I'm going to thank them
individually. Otherwise, how would they even know I read it after
they took the time to make it? The worst, and this has happened to
me, is when everyone else in a thread gets thanked except me. Then
I start worrying about that ignore list someone mentioned. But as
someone pointed out to me, they may have just missed mine. But then
again, given my blunt personality, maybe not. LOL.

Karen

http://www.pbase.com/kstuebin



'Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees.'

Last words of General Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson, killed in error
by his own troops at the battle of Chancellorsvillle during the US
Civil War, 1863.
Click to expand...
--
New to Photography ... I need a lot of HELP!
but, learning quickly by reading this forum.
Love, my travel 'worthy' c-5050 now with ver82 & my new toy:
The 11.5 hour Toshiba Tecra M2 travel Notebook
Favorite c-5050 site: http://wrotniak.net/photo/c5050/

 
I may have been misunderstood. I meant to say that writing "thanks" or "nice shot" isn't nearly enough.

Some of my best learning experiences here have been from folks saying, "Nice shot, but could you...."

I want to learn. I don't need to be ego-rubbed. I mean, hey, if it's really that good, then sure, tell me about it. But at least tell me why.
Trond N said:
Posting individual replies (thanks (nt) and the like) is not imo
being needy, but rather being polite. But of course it's not
necessary doing so. But posting a "Thanks you all" at the end of
the thread, showing appreciation for the replies, is the least
anyone should expect.

For the most I try to post individual replies, and I'm not at all
afraid saying I'm a little needy...LOL.

--
TrondN 'The Frozen Viking'
C730UZ + Raynox DCR-1540 Pro, DCR-6600 Pro, DCR-250 and Promaster
5750DX
http://www.home.no/trond-nordland



Comments, criticism and suggestions always appreciated.
Click to expand...
 
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