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D100, Alps & frustration

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As opposed to just doing the same as before with film, switching to digital means learning new techniques, realising the changes and differences between them and adapting yourself. If you do that properly you will not have a problem as described.

Itamar
 
Vtie...I agree 100 percent.....I would gladly give up pixals for more dynamic range. Hopefully Nikon will address this issue with the D2X.

By the way, you have some really excellent images here!

Regards

--
RFC
http://www.pbase.com/rfcd100
 
Vtie

I carried my D100 for 31 days in the Himalayas and climbed to 21,000 feet 3 times with it and got the most amazing shots. I used a CP filter for all shots due to the high reflection and glare off the ice & snow, especially up high. I had a couple of systems on how I carried the D100 whether hiking or climbing. All worked great. Just have to manage your equipment but worth it for the pics.

Here is my old post:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=5416793

Also you can see some of my pics at:

http://trevor.kloeden.com

Trevor
Vtie said:
DMillier said:
Sometimes you either have to use grads, blend shots or just wait
for the right light!
Click to expand...
The last suggestion makes a lot of sense indeed. You can get much
better shots in the Alps at early morning or late evening. But, on a
single day hike, these are the times you are back in your tent in the
valley... And I refused to take my D100 on a 2 day mountain climbing

--
Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
Click to expand...
 
Hope you don't mind, but I used one of your pic.



Original:


Vtie said:
Being a hiking and mountain climbing fanatic, I have taken my D100
with me for the first time to a vacation in the Alps, and used it
on some of the easier hikes (I didn't want to take that weight with
me to climb +4000meter mountains...)
I'm not impressed at all by the results. Years ago, I got better
pictures
with my all-manual Minolta film SLR. The reason is simple: dynamic
range. Imagine a dark green forest in the shadow and on the same
scene a mountain covered with snow in the sun. The D100 simply can't
get this scene in an acceptable way. Exposing for the snow and
intensive post-processing can help somewhat, but the result is
less than satisfactory. This strengthened me in my opinion: I don't
give a damn about pixel count, my next camera needs better dynamic
range!
Anyway, below are a few of the more acceptable results.
feel free to comment...

http://www.applied-maths.com/paul/DSC_5362.jpg
http://www.applied-maths.com/paul/DSC_5381.jpg
http://www.applied-maths.com/paul/DSC_5448.jpg
http://www.applied-maths.com/paul/DSC_5506.jpg
http://www.applied-maths.com/paul/DSC_5558.jpg
http://www.applied-maths.com/paul/DSC_5621.jpg
http://www.applied-maths.com/paul/DSC_5692.jpg
http://www.applied-maths.com/paul/DSC_5723.jpg

--
Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
Click to expand...
--
Mskad.
 
Wow, really nice work!. some nd grads could have been placed nicely in a couple of these. when used properly are not detectable. Ilke singhray, truely neutral " no color shifts" and allow flexable placement of the grad.in any event the photos are excellent.
Vtie said:
Being a hiking and mountain climbing fanatic, I have taken my D100
with me for the first time to a vacation in the Alps, and used it
on some of the easier hikes (I didn't want to take that weight with
me to climb +4000meter mountains...)
I'm not impressed at all by the results. Years ago, I got better
pictures
with my all-manual Minolta film SLR. The reason is simple: dynamic
range. Imagine a dark green forest in the shadow and on the same
scene a mountain covered with snow in the sun. The D100 simply can't
get this scene in an acceptable way. Exposing for the snow and
intensive post-processing can help somewhat, but the result is
less than satisfactory. This strengthened me in my opinion: I don't
give a damn about pixel count, my next camera needs better dynamic
range!
Anyway, below are a few of the more acceptable results.
feel free to comment...

--
Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
Click to expand...
--regards
Craig H. north jersey
 
Kent Johnson said:
Vtie,
Those are really nice shots but I feel your frustration. I'd look
into using a Graduated Neutral Density filter or consider exposure
bracketing and then comining the two images in Photoshop (there are
tools for this as well, Photomatix is one). This works really well
for mountain scenery (mountains don't move very fast :-)
Click to expand...
Combining multiple exposures with different parameters indeed seems
to be the best way of dealing with this.
Except that one has to carry a tripod in order to have multiple
exposures of the same scene. I'm not very enthousiastic about carrying
a tripod on a strenuous full-day hike. Or is there an alternative solution.

Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
 
where was this at? I'm in the Alps soon as well so I'm curious,
there are some beautiful captures in your post.

Cheers,

Sander Meurs
------------------------------------------------------------------



'..fools rush in, where fools have been before..'
 
Roger T. said:
Shadow scenes and bright sunlit snow just don't fit on one exposure
... I'd like to see some of your old 35mm shots, though, to see if
you really did get that range back the good old days -- that kind
of dynamic range is also hard to get on film.
Click to expand...
I don't have a good scanner, so it's hard to show. Altough not perfect
neither, they definetely captured both extreme ends of the
luminosity better
Roger T. said:
Nice shots, though -- which Alps are they, Swiss or Austrian?
Click to expand...
Western Italian Alps (Parco Nationale della Gran Paradiso)

--
Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
 
Janet Zinn said:
and anticipate the same problems. I will definitely have a split ND
with me.
Click to expand...
Good idea, I should have had one as well, but I never used these
things before.
Janet Zinn said:
But I do remember having the same frustrations with
film...(always shot slides) when I went to Alaska...the same
issues, very hard to get correct exposure. ND saved some, but
sometimes its not feasible. That's where digital may be
superior...the ability to combine two shots for shadows and
highlights, as others have suggested. (However, this would be
difficult without a tripod, which is something I wouldn't take
mountain climbing!)
Click to expand...
This is definetely true, the advantages of digital still outweight the
disadvantages. But imagine how it would be if we had a DSLR with
3 stops extra DR! And I agree with your comment on the tripod.
Even the weight of the D100 + 24-120VR is too much for my taste
on a +4000 mountain climbing excursion.
Janet Zinn said:
No matter, these shots are beautiful, I especially love the second
to last shot with the running stream. Where in the Alps were you?
Click to expand...
Western Italian Apls, Parco Nationale della Gran Paradiso. One of the
most beautiful places in the Alps imho.

--
Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
 
Sander Meurs said:
where was this at? I'm in the Alps soon as well so I'm curious,
there are some beautiful captures in your post.
Click to expand...
Western Italian Alps (the region called Valley of Aosta). There is a big
National Park called "Parco Nationale della Gran Paradiso", close to a
village called Cogne (elevation: 1600m). One of the most beautiful and
best preserved places in the Alps (no roads, no ski lifts...)

There are a huge amount of stunning one-day hikes or opportunities
for several day hikes between bivaks. The Gran Paradiso is a 4061m
mountain that is easy to climb. With the proper equipment, you
simply walk to the summit.

And, best of all, there are a few very nice camping sites with not
too much Dutch people... :-> >

--
Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
 
Vtie said:
And, best of all, there are a few very nice camping sites with not
too much Dutch people... :-> >
Click to expand...
that would indeed be very nice! Dutch campers or any other nationality far far away. Well it looks like you had a great time in Aoste.

Janet Zinn is visiting that exact region this month, I will be just a few km away, just north of the Matterhorn in Valais. Thanks for the tip, I might take the drive down there as well.

--
Cheers,

Sander Meurs
------------------------------------------------------------------



'..fools rush in, where fools have been before..'
 
Having to use fancy filters on a $2000 dSLR just so you can get decent photos in the middle of the day is a ridiculous suggestion. The poster is absolutely correct. Dynamic range of current dSLRs is terrible. This is where all the progress needs to be made. I'll be looking closely at the Fuji S3.
Todd Hargis said:
here are a few links and examples:

http://www.photofocus.com/zine2/zine9.htm
http://www.singh-ray.com/grndgrads.html
http://www.fredmiranda.com/article_2/

Check these out.... I hope it helps.
Very nice photos you have anyway. Very nice use of framing. I wish
I could get out more to get away and bring back some nice shots. I
am sure I will soon.

Todd
Vtie said:
Being a hiking and mountain climbing fanatic, I have taken my D100
with me for the first time to a vacation in the Alps, and used it
on some of the easier hikes (I didn't want to take that weight with
me to climb +4000meter mountains...)
I'm not impressed at all by the results. Years ago, I got better
pictures
with my all-manual Minolta film SLR. The reason is simple: dynamic
range. Imagine a dark green forest in the shadow and on the same
scene a mountain covered with snow in the sun. The D100 simply can't
get this scene in an acceptable way. Exposing for the snow and
intensive post-processing can help somewhat, but the result is
less than satisfactory. This strengthened me in my opinion: I don't
give a damn about pixel count, my next camera needs better dynamic
range!
Anyway, below are a few of the more acceptable results.
feel free to comment...

















--
Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/todd991
Click to expand...
 
I know it is said often and probably it can be prooved but in my personal experience I dont get much problems with bad blown out highlights when shooting slides (and projecting them) compared to digital.

If I shoot vacation with manual 35mm camera on slide and centerweighted metering on velvia and project I get 90% keepers regarding the tones.
If I use digital I personally do find it much more difficult.
Well, there are many other advantages about digital.

Some days ago I said to myself - I will stop shooting high contrast scenes any more - the results are too frustrating. Sunny landscapes with sky only before 10am or after 4pm.
DMillier said:
There are some nice shots there. One thing to consider: most high
quality film shooters would probably be using slide rather than neg
film and that would be worse for dynamic range than a DSLR.

Sometimes you either have to use grads, blend shots or just wait
for the right light! Those mountain shots would probably test neg
film as well...
Vtie said:
Being a hiking and mountain climbing fanatic, I have taken my D100
with me for the first time to a vacation in the Alps, and used it
on some of the easier hikes (I didn't want to take that weight with
me to climb +4000meter mountains...)
I'm not impressed at all by the results. Years ago, I got better
pictures
with my all-manual Minolta film SLR. The reason is simple: dynamic
range. Imagine a dark green forest in the shadow and on the same
scene a mountain covered with snow in the sun. The D100 simply can't
get this scene in an acceptable way. Exposing for the snow and
intensive post-processing can help somewhat, but the result is
less than satisfactory. This strengthened me in my opinion: I don't
give a damn about pixel count, my next camera needs better dynamic
range!
Anyway, below are a few of the more acceptable results.
feel free to comment...

















--
Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
TOM
 
ralph Baer said:
Vtie... do you shoot jpg or RAW? NEF files have quite a lot more
dynamic range than jpg...
Click to expand...
I shoot jpg most of the time. I have heard the claim that NEF has
more dynamic range than jpg quite a few times already, but I fail to see
why. For me, dynamic range is the usefull range of luminosity you can
capture in a single shot, and is delimited by two phenomenons on
both sides:
(1) saturation at the bright side
(2) noise at the dark side.

For (1), this obviously makes no difference if you shoot NEF or JPG.
And, as far as I know (2) is almost the same as well.
The only potential advantage of NEF's is that you avoid the risk
of posterisation if you stretch your brightness scale to the extreme,
because of the limited number of color levels of jpg.
But, in my experience, noise becomes a limiting factor much earlier than
that, so this point is rather theoretical.

--
Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
 
Itamar Engelsman said:
Just a small remark, in the first image the mountains in the back
are totally out of focus. Was this on purpose ? I think it would
have been much nicer to get full focus by using a small aperture or
even the hyperfocal distance.
Click to expand...
In this case, the main subject was the flowers and I only decided
the last moment to include the mountains in the background.
I thought the picture would draw more the attention to the flowers
if I left them OOF. But retrospectively, I agree with you that I should
at least have tried a version with small aperture to have both in focus.

--
Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
 
I used Curves to bring up the shadows (which does the same things
but in a different way). However, the limit you encounter is that,
if you push it too far, a lot of noise starts showing up in the shadow
areas that are brightened. You don't easily see this on the web-
reduced images, but it starts getting very disturbing on the original ones.

--
Vtie
http://www.pbase.com/vtie
 
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