RANT: Keeping up with the Joneses

gho · Jun 29, 2004

Dave Harpe said:
My only problem is when inexperienced folks buy the high end gear
and then post thread after thread complaining about how it takes
awful photos.

Well, keep in mind that this is an international board. Some people don't speak (or write) English very well, and are simply having comming across as blaming the equipment. A simple question as to "why are my photos out of focus?" can be asked two ways "what am I doing wrong?" or "why does my camera not focus?" The later seems to be blaming the equipment, but is just a way of stating a question. I don't see any need to get defensive about a question.

In some cultures its also their nature to be blunt and forthcomming.

There are others that are simply fustrated by buying a cheapo camera and getting crappy results, and buying a better camera and still getting crappy results. Buy a Yugo everyone will complain it corners worth . Buy a Mercedes, and if it still corners like a boat, then you know its not the car since many drive it and love it.

For these people, I try to be civil and seek the source of their fustration and help them out to the best of my ability. If they are looking to work out the issues, they'll listen and ask questions.

Gregory

Ken Plotkin · Jun 29, 2004

bbolstad said:
bbolstad said:

rantn

Click to expand...

Okay, am I the only one who is more than a bit tired of seeing so
many folks that insist the D70/D100/Rebel/P&S isn't what they were
hoping for so now they HAVE to upgrade to a $3000 body like the
D2H. And, can you please tell them if they really have to buy a
$1500 lens--won't the $300 one with the rebate be enough?

[snip]

You say that like it's a bad thing. ;-)

I like those people. They play an important role in the economy, and are a benefit to the rest of us. Mass production and mass markets are what make it possible for all of us to have amazing goods at affordable prices. Some day read Henry Petroski's book "The Pencil." At one time pencils were luxury items. But, thanks to the billions bought by people who can't write, who use them to level wobbly tables, to chew on during classes, etc., we can all afford them.

Ken Plotkin

KosmoD70 · Jun 29, 2004

Well, like I said, I didn't know whether to be insulted or not

No harm, no foul...

The image you posted (I looked at the higher res version) would seem at first glance to be sharp, but look at the yellow... its not nearly as sharp as a decent film camera, good glass, and kodachrome/ectachrome, shot at f22. I'm not trying to be an ass, as I have a habit of shooting at the smallest aperture I can, so for a digital image its not bad at all. What I am hoping for in the D2h is to be able to get that same shot in crystal clarity.

I'll tell you what, after I finish this logo design I am in the middle of I'll go outside and take a few shots with the D70 at the smallest aperture/highest shutter than I can (its sunny out) and post them. Maybe the camera is defective, or maybe the kit lens is a POS. The salesman told me this lens would sell for $600, and I see it's more like $300, so maybe it is indeed the glass.

I haven't shot pro in a very long time, so by no means would I compare my skills with most people on this board, and that includes you. You have to shoot all the time to stay sharp, and I don't, I happen to shoot more pics of my cats (scottish folds) than I do landscapes, portraits, etc... but I am hoping to if the technology in digital is as good as I have seen here, and I have no reason to doubt it. I won't go back to film in a big way because film ultimately winds up in my computer anyway ;-)

bbolstad said:
KosmoD70 said:

I don't know whether to be insulted or not...

Click to expand...

My apologies if you were insulted--that was not my intent, but I
will admit that your posts did contribute to my frustration
yesterday. Both posts (to me) showed a lack of research or a
simple search through the forums to see if the topics had been
covered before.

Your credentials would suggest that you exceed my skills and
capabilities by several orders of magnitude, so I again apologize
for offending you.

That said, from all of the empirical evidence I've seen, the D70 is
a tack sharp camera (even at 100%) with good glass. Have you tried
lenses other than the 18-70 kit lens?

Given that you have a pro photographer background, I suspect your
eye is more well trained than most amateurs like myself to detect
sharpness. Thus, I wouldn't doubt that this lens is insufficient
for your standards. I have gradually become more sensitive to
sharpness as well as I have learned what to look for and that drove
my purchases of two very expensive pro-level lenses.

Also, given your background, I'd guess that you must know how to
pick out a fine quality lens, so why bail on the D70 so fast
without trying other lenses? Bad samples do happen.

I am sorry if I misread the motivation behind your posts--you are
obviously not as naive as I perceived, but I would say don't give
up so quickly. Do a little research and some more tests. If you
got bad samples, get Nikon to fix them--they're both bound to still
be under warranty. Or, if the D2H is your thing, go for it and
enjoy.

BB

--
John Manzione
Publisher
MacNETv2
http://www.macnet2.com

Chazbo · Jun 29, 2004

When I first read this, I thought...shouldn't this be in the Canon forum?

Yeah...there are a lot of us that feel the same way. It seems, every time a piece of new equipment comes out (camera body, lens, whatever) everyone has to have it NOW. Geeze...learn to be patient with what you have. As Yoda says, patience young Jedi.

Yep...you're expressing what a lot of us feel. About the only thing I'd add would be "shut up and shoot".

BTW, am I glad Paul Pope doesn't shoot Nikon!

--
'Work is for people who don't know how to surf'

bbolstad · Jun 29, 2004

KosmoD70 said:
The image you posted (I looked at the higher res version) would
seem at first glance to be sharp, but look at the yellow... its not
nearly as sharp as a decent film camera, good glass, and
kodachrome/ectachrome, shot at f22. I'm not trying to be an ass, as
I have a habit of shooting at the smallest aperture I can, so for a
digital image its not bad at all. What I am hoping for in the D2h
is to be able to get that same shot in crystal clarity.

Fair enough. Admittedly, this image isn't as sharp as I thought it was several months ago when I took it. The shot was at f/4, which was probably a bit large and outside of the sweet spot of the 50 f/1.8.

I would be interested to see what sort of results you're getting out of the D70 and kit lens. I've never shot slide film, so that may be where I lack the experience to compare sharpness.

BB

Steve Tr · Jun 29, 2004

Hi Dave,

It's a good sugestion to consider excellent glasses at bargain prices in the used maket.

Maybe it's the way for me to get that 300 f/2.8 lens (MF is fine too).
--
steve

dsphotog said:
dsphotog said:

Sorry, needed to vent a bit on this Monday morning.

BB

Click to expand...

Is no one able to manually focus a camera any longer?

Example: NEW 85 f1.4 AF @ B&H $999.00 - USED 85 f1.4 MF @ KEH
$499.00 + $85.00 to have metering chip added. You gain a really
great piece of glass, full metering (less 3D matrix, regular matrix
works) and all you really loose is auto focus. Is the loss really
woth the $415.00 difference?

I've been playing with photography off and on since the mid
sixties, and if it were not for good used equipment, I'd really
have never gotten very far. If you think it costs a lot to shoot
35mm, give Hassy and 4x5 and 8x10 a try. It will give you a whole
new perspective.

BTW, I own and shoot a D100 now and use the AF most of the time (60
year old eyes can use all the help they can get). However, there
are certainly times when MF is far better and easier to use. (Try
small birds in the bushes with low light and AF)

I have the 20 AFD, 24-120 AFD, 105 Micro AF and the 80-200 AFD. I
also have a "bought used" 55 AIS micro (Cost about $90) which just
happens to be the sharpest lens of the whole bunch. I haven't had
it chipped yet, but it's not much of a problem to figure out
exposure using the histogram given non-moving subjects.

FYI - I've owned and used most Nikon glass from 15mm to 600mm at
one time or another, full Hasselblad system including the 905SWC
Dedicated wide angle as well as full 4x5 field system (6 lenses)
and full 8x10 field system (5 lenses). (Per Ansel Adams, the best
camera is the largest format camera that you can and will carry)
Most bought new, but a fair amount used as well. Not meant as
bragging, just laying my cards on the table so to speak.

BTW, if my finacial situation permitted, no one would have a chance
at that 85 1.4 at KEH as I would have already ordered it.

Hope all will take this in the spirit it is intended. Don't
overlook the used MF market!! Lots of very good glass out there at
real bargin prices.

Best,
Dave

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RANT: Keeping up with the Joneses

gho

Veteran Member

Ken Plotkin

Senior Member

KosmoD70

Forum Enthusiast

Chazbo

Leading Member

bbolstad

Forum Enthusiast

Steve Tr

Leading Member

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