ADULT CONTENT: SF Pride + SHOOT from the hip (LONG)

eyevibe · Jun 28, 2004

If this thread poses so many problems for you, why do you keep coming back? You must be one that can't be swayed on issues but must sway everyone else to your beliefs. Go back and teach your congregation more hate and predjudice, they obviously listen to your rhetoric. The thought of you reproducing is worse to me than the thought of two men not reproducing.

Mjack1957 said:
eyevibe said:

You have alot of hate. God may not tolerate sinners, but he
forgives them, i.e. Mary Magdalen and Judas.

Click to expand...

No only did he forgive the afore mentioned, he forgave you and I.
As for your "full of hate" remark; it doesn't even warrant a reply.

Mjack1957 said:

Mjack1957 said:

eyevibe said:

I was taught as a Christaiin to be tolerant, compassionate and
accepting of all of God's creatures.

Click to expand...

Apparently you had some very poor teachers. Who told you that God
tolerates sin? Give me scripture and verse where you find that.

Was Jesus being tolerant when he beat the money changers out of the
temple?

Was He being accepting when he rebuked the Pharisees & Saducees?

You should go back and do a thourough study of your bible.

Did I miss the part where it

Mjack1957 said:

says I should be critical and judgemental of homosexuals? Please
don't quote scripture, I understand scripture tells you not to do
it (it also tells you to take an eye for an eye and cut off the
hand that sins etc), but I need the part where it say's I can be
critical and judgemental against certain people.

Click to expand...

Again, apparently you don't know what judgment is. And I find it
strange that a "Christian" would not want scripture to be quoted...
very odd.

If the words of God are "spirit" and "life", why would you not want
to hear them?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--

--
m.munoz

kennebunkport · Jun 28, 2004

Mjack, your work with the ASO is certainly gets a tip of the hat from me. But you can help me understand where you're coming from a bit more by addressing a point I made, that being about the book of Leviticus.

Can you tell me that all which is written in that book applies in today's society? The crimes and punishments that seem so outlandish? If not, then why can't you be more flexible regarding homosexualtiy?

I don't believe in any god, never have. So the biblical argument against my lifestyle seems, to me, just plain ridiculous in an educated society. But when gays get beaten up or worse by people who think they're doing god's work, then it stops being silly and becomes a real cause for concern.

Religion is a powerful tool for mind control; we only need to think of the recent beheadings in the news. And of course, 9-11. These people were doing it for their god.

Love and understanding. There's just too little of it going around these days. Many religions claim to love, but are miles behind when it comes to understanding.

Jay

http://members3.clubphoto.com/jay229854/guest-1.phtml

Mjack1957 · Jun 28, 2004

When you choose to have any sexual encounter, does some mysterious force over take you and you lose all control over your faculties?

Is it that you are under some hypnotic spell that renders you powerless to say no?

I'm a married man (26) years. During that time, I've had several opportunities to break my vows. I had a choice to make. The strongest thing on the face of this earth is the human will. It's all a matter of volition. God loves you so much he allows you to make your own choices.

He does that because if you love him, you will choose to love him. Although he is all powerful, he never violates or compromises our power to choose. So don't tell me that you can't make a choice. I know you can.

I'm not perfect. Even though I'm a pastor, I still have to make choices every day. There are times when temptations present themselves. Guess what? Sometimes I do well other times I fall. But when I do I get right back up and try to do better the next time. Is it hard.... YES. But it's all a matter of developing discipline... ergo disciple.

Listen, I appreciate your views however let's both just try to do the best we can with what we have.

And by the way, you will continue to talk to me.

JohnNYC said:
Mjack1957 said:

I've spent the majority of my life studying scripture. Two
undergraduate degrees in theology, one graduate and about to begin
doctoral work. I'm pretty much a student of the Word of God.
JohnNYC wrote:

Click to expand...

You can know the Bible............And you can practice the
Bible.......
Two very different things............

JohnNYC said:

JohnNYC said:

We are all sinners..........gays, straights, democrats,
republicans, christians, jews, black and white.............

Click to expand...

A sinner is a person who continually practices sin without trying
to change or conform their lives to the standard of righteousness
that God sets forth in his word. Therefore, we are not all
sinners. We sin at times because we are not perfect. But we don't
all practice wilfull sin.

Click to expand...

How do you stop being gay?? Being gay is not a choice...........It
is "YOU" as an individual. Can you be gay tomorrow and straight
the next day?? NO!!! Being gay is not willfull sin.............

JohnNYC said:

JohnNYC said:

God is not here to condemn............God sent his Son as means for
us "sinners" to believe in him and have eternal life.

Click to expand...

I you believe Him then you would accept his message and he would be
your Lord. To quote Jesus, Why call ye me Lord when you don't do
the things I say?

Click to expand...

"My heart is willing............but my body is weak." We're human
beings.

JohnNYC said:

JohnNYC said:

To quote incidents where God condemned sinners is not showing the
Bible in its "true" essence.

Click to expand...

To not show instances where God condems sin and sinners would be
not showing the bible in its' true essence

Click to expand...

Agreed. But in the end........which would you rather publicize??
That God condemns?? Or that God saves??

JohnNYC said:

JohnNYC said:

You have your belief and I share your belief.............To say
that gays are not even worth "a press in your shutter" is an insult
not only to gays but to God..............as God made every human
being that lives in this earth.

Click to expand...

Read my original post. I did not say that gays are not even worth
a press in your shutter. Those were your words. Don't put your
words in my mouth.

Click to expand...

This is your post:

"I wouldn't have wasted a shutter click on any of these"

JohnNYC said:

JohnNYC said:

You might not know this..............but some "gay" people could
just as well be your brothers and sisters through Christ.

Click to expand...

As I said before, I've done a great deal of work in the gay
community. I've spoken to people who deeply regret the hold that
sin has gotten in their lives. They want to stop but don't know
how.

Click to expand...

Exactly..........they don't know how..............and do you think
that all your post up to this point have shown them the "way"??

JohnNYC said:

I've also talked to others who in arrogance and rebellion turn up
there noses at God. These are two differing attitudes all
together. I've helped some and left others to their own devices.
You see, in the end it all boils down to choice. We have been
given the divine right and priviledge to make choices. Life is
after all choice driven. So where we end up will all be a matter
of choice.

Click to expand...

I've said it before and I'll say it again.........being gay is NOT
a choice. If you truly believe that being GAY is a
choice..........then I have nothing more to say.

More compassion and less condemnation.

Aite??

Chill.........

JohnNYC said:

JohnNYC said:

With love,

Ro1

--
'Say CHEESE'

Click to expand...

--

Click to expand...

--
'Say CHEESE'

--

Mjack1957 · Jun 28, 2004

eyevibe said:
Mjack1957 said:

eyevibe said:

You have alot of hate. God may not tolerate sinners, but he
forgives them, i.e. Mary Magdalen and Judas.

Click to expand...

No only did he forgive the afore mentioned, he forgave you and I.
As for your "full of hate" remark; it doesn't even warrant a reply.

eyevibe said:

Mjack1957 said:

eyevibe said:

I was taught as a Christaiin to be tolerant, compassionate and
accepting of all of God's creatures.

Click to expand...

Apparently you had some very poor teachers. Who told you that God
tolerates sin? Give me scripture and verse where you find that.

Was Jesus being tolerant when he beat the money changers out of the
temple?

Was He being accepting when he rebuked the Pharisees & Saducees?

You should go back and do a thourough study of your bible.

Did I miss the part where it

eyevibe said:

says I should be critical and judgemental of homosexuals? Please
don't quote scripture, I understand scripture tells you not to do
it (it also tells you to take an eye for an eye and cut off the
hand that sins etc), but I need the part where it say's I can be
critical and judgemental against certain people.

Click to expand...

Again, apparently you don't know what judgment is. And I find it
strange that a "Christian" would not want scripture to be quoted...
very odd.

If the words of God are "spirit" and "life", why would you not want
to hear them?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--

Click to expand...

Mjack1957 · Jun 28, 2004

kennebunkport said:
Mjack, your work with the ASO is certainly gets a tip of the hat
from me. But you can help me understand where you're coming from a
bit more by addressing a point I made, that being about the book of
Leviticus.

The purpose of Leviticus is to establish God's standard of righteousness and thus define sin. From the time it was written until the time of Christ, no man was ever able to keep all of the commandments and statutes. However, Jesus did. That's why we accept his death as the sacrifice for our sins. It's called grace. He bore my sins and yours, paid the ultimate price that judgment demanded and offers to those who will accept it a free gift.

kennebunkport said:
Can you tell me that all which is written in that book applies in
today's society? The crimes and punishments that seem so
outlandish? If not, then why can't you be more flexible regarding
homosexualtiy?

I never said I didn't understand. You must understand what happened to all human beings when sin entered the world. It affected us all. But that does not give us an excuse to willfully violate the laws of God. I understand more than you know. It's a hard thing when you have to preside over the funeral of a friend that you loved who died of AIDS. Again, you have no idea of who I am.

kennebunkport said:
I don't believe in any god, never have. So the biblical argument
against my lifestyle seems, to me, just plain ridiculous in an
educated society. But when gays get beaten up or worse by people
who think they're doing god's work, then it stops being silly and
becomes a real cause for concern.

Any person who brings harm to another for their sexual preference is WRONG. God is not involved in that in any way.

As to whether or not you believe in God or not, trust me; there will come a day when you believe.

kennebunkport said:
Religion is a powerful tool for mind control; we only need to think
of the recent beheadings in the news. And of course, 9-11. These
people were doing it for their god.

Religion is a very powerful thing. It was religion that killed Jesus. Love is also a very powerful thing. In the bible, there is a story of a woman caught in the act of adultery. She was brought to Jesus by an angry mob of men. It the end his words to her were, "Woman, where are thine accusers. He replied, "I have none" He said, neither do I condemn you... go your way and SIN NO MORE! That's the love and mercy of God...but remember the part "sin no more"

kennebunkport said:
Love and understanding. There's just too little of it going around
these days. Many religions claim to love, but are miles behind
when it comes to understanding.

Jay

http://members3.clubphoto.com/jay229854/guest-1.phtml

--

JohnNYC · Jun 28, 2004

Mjack1957 said:
When you choose to have any sexual encounter, does some mysterious
force over take you and you lose all control over your faculties?

Yes...........you're human desire.

Mjack1957 said:
Is it that you are under some hypnotic spell that renders you
powerless to say no?

Yes............

Mjack1957 said:
I'm a married man (26) years.

Congratulations!!!

Mjack1957 said:
During that time, I've had several
opportunities to break my vows. I had a choice to make. The
strongest thing on the face of this earth is the human will. It's
all a matter of volition. God loves you so much he allows you to
make your own choices.

Agreed.

Mjack1957 said:
He does that because if you love him, you will choose to love him.
Although he is all powerful, he never violates or compromises our
power to choose. So don't tell me that you can't make a choice. I
know you can.

Did you choose to be straight?? Are you straight by choice?? Or born straight??

Was there a specific point in your life where you woke up and said to yourself "I think I will be straight!!!".

Mjack1957 said:
I'm not perfect.

Nobody is.

Mjack1957 said:
Even though I'm a pastor, I still have to make
choices every day. There are times when temptations present
themselves. Guess what? Sometimes I do well other times I fall.
But when I do I get right back up and try to do better the next
time. Is it hard.... YES. But it's all a matter of developing
discipline... ergo disciple.

And good for you.............but in the end..........you are not judged by how many times you got up..................or how many times you fell.

Mjack1957 said:
Listen, I appreciate your views however let's both just try to do
the best we can with what we have.

Aite...........but really the only thing that upsets me was your very first statement...............which hopefully you didn't mean. And people who are so filled with hatred to say things like these:

"No im insecure with homos taking over the world.

Everyone has their 'thing' I dont like a bunch of gays running around pretending its ok when they know it isnt. They know better. You know better. Im not a religious man much anymore but God spoke the words but I have enough brains to know its nasty and wrong. My opinion....End of discussion...."

Mjack1957 said:
And by the way, you will continue to talk to me.

Of course

Ro1
--
'Say CHEESE'

Noah_Mercy · Jun 28, 2004

icmp said:
There is a difference between tolerance and acceptance. One can
tolerate while utterly rejecting/refusing to accept anothers
opinions, views, lifestyle choices, and values. Tolerance doesn't
equal acceptance. Meanwhile, it's an interesting thing to witness
"the champions of tolerance and inclusion" become entirely
intolerant when confronted with a viewpoint which is starkly
different from their own, leading to the branding, exclusion,
dismissiveness, and pretty much everything they themselves would
define as being 'wrong' with respect to diversity and inclusion.

Just something to consider... meanwhile, I find the displays
presented very interesting from a photographic point of view but
largely objectionable from a personal point of view. But that's my
opinion based on my values and moral judgements. Now, back to the
regular, forum-specific stuff...

Nice work, Michael, to get a good cross-section of the day's events
and use a 'more candid' shooting style than you might otherwise be
accustomed to. Now, if you had one of those nifty Sony 828's you'd
probably have made great use of it's flexible body style, yes?!?
;-)

Keep up the good, and "varied", work, despite the objections of
people like myself to the actual subject matter. ;-)

icmp

lx200 said:

Michael Soo said:

That's a MIGHTY broad statement to make. Care to enlighten us to
why you said so?

MS

http://forum.soocool.com - SF Bay Area Photography Club for field
trips
http://www.soocool.com - Explore life beyond the norms

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Noah_Mercy · Jun 28, 2004

hqm said:
PaulyOly said:

I was just going to say this, but see you beat me to it. I'm not
homophobic, i'm not a gay basher, i've known a few openly gay
people in my life and did not have a problem with them. Now the
thought of having sex with another man or even kissing another man
is utterly repulsive to me, not because i'm homophobic, not because
of my religious beliefs, because i'm straight. Is there something
wrong with that?

Click to expand...

The idea of a grownup named Pauly is repulsive to me, is there
something wrong with that?

Yes. It's irrational.

hqm said:
I'm a very tolerant person, but it just turns my stomach.

Get well soon!

KC

Pj79172 · Jun 28, 2004

who's God? Yours or mine?

An interesting clip about religion and politics and the individual.

A Realmedia Clip:

http://video.pbs.org:8080/ramgen/media4/now/051404/jacoby-lo.rm

Noah_Mercy · Jun 28, 2004

Firstly. Nice shooting. Some are ho-hum (no pun) some are really good. Bet you were wishing for Sony's little stealth (828) shooter.

As for the question/post

Michael Soo119924 said:
Isn't it rude to take picture of people when they are being
intimate like kissing?

NO. Not in public.

Michael Soo119924 said:
Each individual has their sensitivity gauge
that is different than another...so I thought it would be nice to
respect that.

It would be nice if you were psychic.

You struck upon it yourself Michael. It's common sense. If someone feels their privacy is invaded during an intimate moment IN PUBLIC, they should do it in private.

PUBLIC = in public. Where people can all see... and it's perfectly legal to take pictures.

PRIVATE = you have some PRIVACY, different from PUBLIC.

As a caveat, when people's humiliation or tragedy occurs in public by chance (e.g. car wreck, heart attack, etc...) then it would be courteous and kind to empathize with them and possibly chose to refrain from capturing that moment.

But for something completely voluntary, like a kiss... totally different situation. SHOOT AWAY!

If they are offended, they are the ones being rude. They are attempting to turn YOUR PUBLIC place into THEIR PRIVATE place. You should be outraged and bloodily bludgeon... OR just keep shooting.

KC

Michael Soo said:
Perhaps I'm wrong though...since that's a public event...please
educate me on it.

Or even perhaps, I'm trying to practise my hip-shooting skill. ;-)

MS

Mikee said:

Why were you scared to take pictures? Lots of people take photos
during pride don't they? I've only been to pride at night, but
I've seen many day time pride pictures.

Anyway, hope ya had fun

Click to expand...

--

MS

http://forum.soocool.com - SF Bay Area Photography Club for field
trips
http://www.soocool.com - Explore life beyond the norms

tjotala · Jun 28, 2004

loupgarou said:
so one straight man and one straight woman on a deserted island
without anyone else.

so they have a bunch of babies.

then what? INCEST?

ok: so they have incest? so their lack of genetic diversity causes
deformities, eventually the whole bunch are dead beyond the 3rd
generation.

I'm soo (no pun, Michael ;-) very tempted to crack nasty jokes about the deep south. But, no, that would be in extreme bad taste - much like those comments about the parade being an abomination...

--
Cheers,

Tapani

Michael Soo119924 · Jun 28, 2004

I'm not here in this forum to discuss morales. So, go ahead and chime it along with the others. I could care less. I'm here to improve my photography. From my perspective, the only reason why I shot from the hip is to

1. try something new
2. be respectful and not be in YOUR face
3. Try to keep my Camera safe in case I get beat up or something.

MS

Terry M said:
with the secretive nature of the photography. You say you shot from
the hip and very much tried to be covert in your photography. You
even brag about getting images this way, comparing it to
envisioning shots while playing pool.

That bothers me more than the content of the photos, even though
these guys are walking around with their peckers hanging out. I
don't understand why they felt the need to strip naked to march for
gay rights, but they had the courage of their convictions.

It's a little strange to read your defending these photos' merits
AFTER the fact when you apparently didn't believe strongly enough
in the merit of taking them to be upfront about it in the first
place.

If I have an image or a cause I don't believe in enough to be
upfront in capturing photos, I don't press the shutter button.

I trust that you are a moral and decent photographer but this
gallery does little to convey that.

--

MS

http://forum.soocool.com - SF Bay Area Photography Club for field trips
http://www.soocool.com - Explore life beyond the norms

ChuckH · Jun 28, 2004

Glenn D said:
Why is it that the left world wants everyone to be tolerant until
we who do not like something speak out. It is unnatural to us and
many of us find it utterly discusting. We have a right to call it
as we see it without being called names or told to grow up.

Really?!! If you don't like Blacks or Jews and you speak out and "call it as you see it", should others simply tolerate your intolerance rather than taking you to task for it?
--
Chuck

ChuckH · Jun 29, 2004

"Homeless in San Francisco" is great! There are a couple of other very nice shots as well. But, I'm sorry; I just don't get the picture of the stall selling the S&M and leather stuff. You wrote:

"I like it a lot for its abstract feel, don't ask me why". Okay, I won't ask - LOL! To me, it just looks like an extremely out-of-focus picture ;-)

You've never posted anything blurry before, so I'll just chalk it up to an extreme case of back-focusing - LOL!

Good work on the rest though!

--
Chuck

ChuckH · Jun 29, 2004

Mjack1957 said:
since it's soooo very hard for you to comprehend.

Man + woman = possibility of producing another human life.

Man + Man = 0 possibility of ever producing another human life.

Woman + woman = 0 possibility of ever producing another human life.

Now unless you're extremely obtuse or suffering from brain damage,
you CAN understand my argument. It's a natural argument.

End of discussion. Point well made. GAME, SET, MATCH

So, according to your logic, I guess infertile men or women should simply set themselves adrift on the nearest ice floe. After all, they couldn't possibly have anything constructive to contribute to the human species. Could they?
--
Chuck

JoshUK · Jun 29, 2004

Some great shots there Michael. I have never considered going to a pride before, but you have inspired me to go along and see what I can snap

I guess 'shooting from the hip' helped to get the candid feel but I am sure you could have snapped away without anyone being offended.

Oh and a question - how long do you have to wait to find out if you caught any gay while there ;-) and yes, that is a joke (and yes at the expense of the panicing anti-gay posters here)

Keep up the good work Michael, its great to see.

ChuckH · Jun 29, 2004

Mjack1957 said:
As I said before, I've done a great deal of work in the gay
community. I've spoken to people who deeply regret the hold that
sin has gotten in their lives. They want to stop but don't know
how.

Found this letter on the Internet awhile back. I think it helps to explain everything ;-)

"Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding G-d's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them.

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanness (Lev.15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of G-d if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan."

--
Chuck

PaulyOly · Jun 29, 2004

hqm said:
PaulyOly said:

I was just going to say this, but see you beat me to it. I'm not
homophobic, i'm not a gay basher, i've known a few openly gay
people in my life and did not have a problem with them. Now the
thought of having sex with another man or even kissing another man
is utterly repulsive to me, not because i'm homophobic, not because
of my religious beliefs, because i'm straight. Is there something
wrong with that?

Click to expand...

The idea of a grownup named Pauly is repulsive to me, is there
something wrong with that?
I'm a very tolerant person, but it just turns my stomach.

I'm sorry did i upset you sweety? You can't expect a straight guy to find sex between two men pleasing. Can you? If i did then i would surely be gay.

Of course my name is Paul, pauly goes better with Oly.

--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

koiom · Jun 29, 2004

Mjack1957 said:
Mjack1957 said:

But suppose you were to take two people who were homosexuals and

Click to expand...

place them on a deserted island for a scientific experiment. Two
males or females... it wouldn't matter. All things being equal and
provided there was plenty of food and adequate shelter, what would
happen over the process of time?

Would the island repopulate or die? Would it thrive and live? You
be the judge "sweetchops".

well if they were two females or two males, they couldn't reproduce if they were hetero or gay, Einstein!!!!

Mjack1957 said:
Using just plain old common sense, the natural conclusion of the
experiment should tell you something.

--

--
http://www.pbase.com/koiom

koiom · Jun 29, 2004

to put it simply, people like you are a great deal more of a threat to the wellbeing and future of homosapiens than any homosexual.
GAME SET and MATCH you goose

Mjack1957 said:
To answer all my critics; simple point. The natural argument of
logic. Two men can not reproduce life just as two women can't.

Let's just suppose there is a God. Wouldn't he be confused if he
created two males or two females only and commanded them to be
fruitful and replenish the earth... impossible assignment. Fact is
God didn't create two same sex beings. You and I are all here
because of natural laws of reproduction.

Let's just for the sake of arguemt say we all turn gay tomorrow.
What would happen to life on earth. Eventually, we would all die.

Believe what you like ... say what you like. The fact is,
homosexuality is not natural. It's sickening to think that a one
man would want to insert his male reproductive organ is an orafice
created to release human feces. Its' filthy.

No matter how you look at it... that's perverse.

Again... GAME, SET, & MATCH

http://www.rolcc.tv

Hope to see you Sunday or you can watch the broadcast.

--
http://www.pbase.com/koiom

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