Why is it a work around

ScottWilliams MMC/ss · Jun 28, 2004

Why is it a work around ?

Ok, been using my oly p&s for 3.5 years. Lots of 35 mm SLRs, lens PENTAX K mounts around my den now. Been into photo for 25 years. Like the digital dark room experience. Ready to move up to a real digital camera. Like the Rebel for $$$ to get me into Digi SLR. But have to tell you EXCEPT for OLYMPUS, just about every camera I have looked at has seemed to forgotten the digital part means it has to work with a computer.

USB 2.0 is old , yet seems to be rare in digital cameras

Win XP compatible with WIA. Heck I just bought an external HDD. Plug in and away we go.

For just about every camera including the Rebel Need to update a driver or something always

Propietary files. RAW NEFF RAW this and that. Then have to get a RAW converter.

Oh I could upgrade from PS 6.0.1 to CS and then download the upgrade for the RAW format from the SLR. Adds another 180 bucks for the CS upgrade, let alone the learning curve and the 100 bucks in PS 6.0 books I have laying about

So lets get a camera that is a great camera and is WIN XP compliant. Lets get real USB 2.0 connectivity and a file format that WIN recognizes. Yes all you MAC folks have a superior OS but the majority of us are in Windows environments

photoguynorth · Jun 28, 2004

I really think there are more serious things to spend time worrying about - not to be disrespectful, but none of the issues you have are serious.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
have to tell you EXCEPT for OLYMPUS, just about every camera I have

That means being able to post process without scanning - not always a bad thing. It's kind of a benefit to digital - no more darkroom chemicals.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
USB 2.0 is old , yet seems to be rare in digital cameras

USB is at least backwards compatible. Most users get an external card reader anyways - it's more convenient, and stays connected.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Win XP compatible with WIA. Heck I just bought an external HDD.
Plug in and away we go.

It takes seconds to install the driver - like every other driver XP uses.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
For just about every camera including the Rebel Need to update a
driver or something always

The driver ships with the camera, and takes seconds to install (one time only)

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Propietary files. RAW NEFF RAW this and that. Then have to get a
RAW converter.

Use JPEG. It is a universal format thet does not need converting. If you want the benefit of a raw format, then it is proprietary. Again - there is a choice.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Oh I could upgrade from PS 6.0.1 to CS and then download the
upgrade for the RAW format from the SLR. Adds another 180 bucks for
the CS upgrade, let alone the learning curve and the 100 bucks in
PS 6.0 books I have laying about

Or use the supplied, free converter from Canon. Or the free upgrade to EVU - but you have to download it.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
So lets get a camera that is a great camera and is WIN XP
compliant. Lets get real USB 2.0 connectivity and a file format
that WIN recognizes. Yes all you MAC folks have a superior OS but
the majority of us are in Windows environments

ScottWilliams MMC/ss · Jun 28, 2004

So here is another guy that just doesnt get it

It is supposed to be fun

Yes I can do all that BUT why?

Build the camera to take great pics and talk to a computer without add on drivers software etc.

JPEG sure

What happened to TIFF, no compersion losses.

photoguynorth said:
ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

have to tell you EXCEPT for OLYMPUS, just about every camera I have

Click to expand...

That means being able to post process without scanning - not always
a bad thing. It's kind of a benefit to digital - no more darkroom
chemicals.

photoguynorth said:

USB 2.0 is old , yet seems to be rare in digital cameras

Click to expand...

USB is at least backwards compatible. Most users get an external
card reader anyways - it's more convenient, and stays connected.

photoguynorth said:

Win XP compatible with WIA. Heck I just bought an external HDD.
Plug in and away we go.

Click to expand...

It takes seconds to install the driver - like every other driver XP
uses.

photoguynorth said:

For just about every camera including the Rebel Need to update a
driver or something always

Click to expand...

The driver ships with the camera, and takes seconds to install (one
time only)

photoguynorth said:

Propietary files. RAW NEFF RAW this and that. Then have to get a
RAW converter.

Click to expand...

Use JPEG. It is a universal format thet does not need converting.
If you want the benefit of a raw format, then it is proprietary.
Again - there is a choice.

photoguynorth said:

Oh I could upgrade from PS 6.0.1 to CS and then download the
upgrade for the RAW format from the SLR. Adds another 180 bucks for
the CS upgrade, let alone the learning curve and the 100 bucks in
PS 6.0 books I have laying about

Click to expand...

Or use the supplied, free converter from Canon. Or the free
upgrade to EVU - but you have to download it.

photoguynorth said:

So lets get a camera that is a great camera and is WIN XP
compliant. Lets get real USB 2.0 connectivity and a file format
that WIN recognizes. Yes all you MAC folks have a superior OS but
the majority of us are in Windows environments

Click to expand...

photoguynorth · Jun 28, 2004

Actually, I do get it. It is fun - but not if you let the smallest details ruin it for you. As I said, I'm not trying to give you a hard time - just point out that it is not hard. Install the drivers (one time - run the CD) and forget about that, shoot JPEG and don't worry about that. As far as drivers, XP uses a driver for EVERYTHING - but some devices had drivers available before XP shipped, so Microsoft put the drivers on the CD. The issue with JPEG is not compression - at high quality setting, there is no noticeable loss in quality - but raw gives you more flexibility in post processing. I use JPEG, lots of us do. Tiff would have an advantage only with Photoshop CS, because Elements uses 8 bit files only. But if you use Photoshop CS, it reads raw files, so TIFF would not help.

Enjoy your camera. After the first 10 minutes taht it takes to run the Canon CD, everything just works.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
It is supposed to be fun

Yes I can do all that BUT why?

Build the camera to take great pics and talk to a computer without
add on drivers software etc.

JPEG sure

What happened to TIFF, no compersion losses.

photoguynorth said:

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

have to tell you EXCEPT for OLYMPUS, just about every camera I have

Click to expand...

That means being able to post process without scanning - not always
a bad thing. It's kind of a benefit to digital - no more darkroom
chemicals.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

USB 2.0 is old , yet seems to be rare in digital cameras

Click to expand...

USB is at least backwards compatible. Most users get an external
card reader anyways - it's more convenient, and stays connected.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

Win XP compatible with WIA. Heck I just bought an external HDD.
Plug in and away we go.

Click to expand...

It takes seconds to install the driver - like every other driver XP
uses.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

For just about every camera including the Rebel Need to update a
driver or something always

Click to expand...

The driver ships with the camera, and takes seconds to install (one
time only)

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

Propietary files. RAW NEFF RAW this and that. Then have to get a
RAW converter.

Click to expand...

Use JPEG. It is a universal format thet does not need converting.
If you want the benefit of a raw format, then it is proprietary.
Again - there is a choice.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

Oh I could upgrade from PS 6.0.1 to CS and then download the
upgrade for the RAW format from the SLR. Adds another 180 bucks for
the CS upgrade, let alone the learning curve and the 100 bucks in
PS 6.0 books I have laying about

Click to expand...

Or use the supplied, free converter from Canon. Or the free
upgrade to EVU - but you have to download it.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

So lets get a camera that is a great camera and is WIN XP
compliant. Lets get real USB 2.0 connectivity and a file format
that WIN recognizes. Yes all you MAC folks have a superior OS but
the majority of us are in Windows environments

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

wilfredmrand · Jun 28, 2004

Some days, it does seem like such a hassle. When I'm documenting family events, for example, the convenience of a 1-hour photo lab drop off sure would be nice. Can't do that at my local CVS, though. Gotta schlep through traffic to a middlin photo shop to get that done.

On the other hand, when I am taking money shots, I sure am glad to be able to do my own processing again. Finally. Been a long time since I took out the enlarger and put the bathtub back in....so for these photos, anyway, the inconvenience is wonderful.

As to the PC thing, you can be sure the people at Microshaft are taking notes about the Mac's seamless integration. They'll have to do the same thing as Apple, though: abandon legacy code. And the howls of protest from the very large PC world will be heard far and wide. Computers were supposed to replace complexities and inconvenience. They have, and replaced them with a new world of complexities and inconvenience. Sigh.
--
Wilfred M Rand
http://www.pbase.com/wilfredmrand/

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
It is supposed to be fun

Yes I can do all that BUT why?

Build the camera to take great pics and talk to a computer without
add on drivers software etc.

JPEG sure

What happened to TIFF, no compersion losses.

photoguynorth said:

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

have to tell you EXCEPT for OLYMPUS, just about every camera I have

Click to expand...

That means being able to post process without scanning - not always
a bad thing. It's kind of a benefit to digital - no more darkroom
chemicals.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

USB 2.0 is old , yet seems to be rare in digital cameras

Click to expand...

USB is at least backwards compatible. Most users get an external
card reader anyways - it's more convenient, and stays connected.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

Win XP compatible with WIA. Heck I just bought an external HDD.
Plug in and away we go.

Click to expand...

It takes seconds to install the driver - like every other driver XP
uses.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

For just about every camera including the Rebel Need to update a
driver or something always

Click to expand...

The driver ships with the camera, and takes seconds to install (one
time only)

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

Propietary files. RAW NEFF RAW this and that. Then have to get a
RAW converter.

Click to expand...

Use JPEG. It is a universal format thet does not need converting.
If you want the benefit of a raw format, then it is proprietary.
Again - there is a choice.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

Oh I could upgrade from PS 6.0.1 to CS and then download the
upgrade for the RAW format from the SLR. Adds another 180 bucks for
the CS upgrade, let alone the learning curve and the 100 bucks in
PS 6.0 books I have laying about

Click to expand...

Or use the supplied, free converter from Canon. Or the free
upgrade to EVU - but you have to download it.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

So lets get a camera that is a great camera and is WIN XP
compliant. Lets get real USB 2.0 connectivity and a file format
that WIN recognizes. Yes all you MAC folks have a superior OS but
the majority of us are in Windows environments

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

RayN · Jun 28, 2004

The camera comes with software to convert raw to jpeg,
8 bit tiff or 16 bit tiif. It is all I've used and it works fine.

Adobe Photoshop Elements is bundled and is fine for most users.
If you have PS 6 then use the tiff format exported from RAW.
The workflow will be slower but it will do the job. You can
batch export so just Select All and export RAW to tiff (and walk
away for 5 minutes). You can also get the output in Adobe RGB
or sRGB color space from RAW.

For printing silver halide prints I use an online printer. Send em
off Sunday, back on Wednesday. 22 cents each (and I get
to crop). More and more kiosks are opening up for drive up
service (I tend to shop while I wait so those can get expensive).

For downlaoding images I purchased a card reader. Only real
thing I had to purchase. They are cheap. Mine is firewire and is
fast. I have a 1 year old PC but Dell gave it firewire and USB 1.0.
Not sure why they went that route but firewire is darn fast and I
don't miss USB 2.0 at all when downloading 512 meg cards via firewire.

No driver upgrades or OS upgrades were needed for my XP system
for the camera or card reader.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Why is it a work around ?
Ok, been using my oly p&s for 3.5 years. Lots of 35 mm SLRs, lens
PENTAX K mounts around my den now. Been into photo for 25 years.
Like the digital dark room experience. Ready to move up to a real
digital camera. Like the Rebel for $$$ to get me into Digi SLR. But
have to tell you EXCEPT for OLYMPUS, just about every camera I have
looked at has seemed to forgotten the digital part means it has to
work with a computer.

USB 2.0 is old , yet seems to be rare in digital cameras

Win XP compatible with WIA. Heck I just bought an external HDD.
Plug in and away we go.

For just about every camera including the Rebel Need to update a
driver or something always

Propietary files. RAW NEFF RAW this and that. Then have to get a
RAW converter.

Oh I could upgrade from PS 6.0.1 to CS and then download the
upgrade for the RAW format from the SLR. Adds another 180 bucks for
the CS upgrade, let alone the learning curve and the 100 bucks in
PS 6.0 books I have laying about

So lets get a camera that is a great camera and is WIN XP
compliant. Lets get real USB 2.0 connectivity and a file format
that WIN recognizes. Yes all you MAC folks have a superior OS but
the majority of us are in Windows environments

Mred32 · Jun 28, 2004

I'm not sure I understand what you would like Windows to do with a RAW file. Since these files are not an image at all you can hardly expect Windows to display them for you.

What you want can be done. You build the camera to be able to talk to every OS that currently exists. This means that as soon as some new OS arrives, you won't be able to use your camera with it without a firmware upgrade. This firmware would need to have the language of every possible OS embedded within it.

The better option would be to build a camera that is able to talk through a common computer interface such as USB, and then provide the drivers for your particular OS of choice.

If things were the way you wanted them, there would be only one type of computer using one OS and a single application for everyone and every purpose in the world.

If only life were so simple.

Mred32

--
For most PC troubleshooting, a .22 will do the job.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss · Jun 29, 2004

then why does Canon have Win XP compatibility built into the high end

1 D, 10 D, 1 Ds and D 60? Seems like they figured it out.

Plug and Play baby. Get it. Sure everyone of you has confirmed my position. Just load this or that, upgrade that or this and works fine.

Mred32 said:
I'm not sure I understand what you would like Windows to do with a
RAW file. Since these files are not an image at all you can hardly
expect Windows to display them for you.

What you want can be done. You build the camera to be able to talk
to every OS that currently exists. This means that as soon as some
new OS arrives, you won't be able to use your camera with it
without a firmware upgrade. This firmware would need to have the
language of every possible OS embedded within it.

The better option would be to build a camera that is able to talk
through a common computer interface such as USB, and then provide
the drivers for your particular OS of choice.

If things were the way you wanted them, there would be only one
type of computer using one OS and a single application for everyone
and every purpose in the world.

If only life were so simple.

Mred32

--
For most PC troubleshooting, a .22 will do the job.

photoguynorth · Jun 29, 2004

XP uses driversfor every device. The ones that you think don't are ones that have the drivers on the XP CD (i.e. shipped before Microsoft finalized the CD) or that use a driver already on the CD (usually standard devices that cannot be controlled by the OS, like generic modems, mice etc). Newer devices (including cameras, network cards, modems, scanners etc etc) all require you to load a driver. That is the nature of XP - and nothing to do with Canon.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
1 D, 10 D, 1 Ds and D 60? Seems like they figured it out.

Plug and Play baby. Get it. Sure everyone of you has confirmed my
position. Just load this or that, upgrade that or this and works
fine.

Mred32 said:

I'm not sure I understand what you would like Windows to do with a
RAW file. Since these files are not an image at all you can hardly
expect Windows to display them for you.

What you want can be done. You build the camera to be able to talk
to every OS that currently exists. This means that as soon as some
new OS arrives, you won't be able to use your camera with it
without a firmware upgrade. This firmware would need to have the
language of every possible OS embedded within it.

The better option would be to build a camera that is able to talk
through a common computer interface such as USB, and then provide
the drivers for your particular OS of choice.

If things were the way you wanted them, there would be only one
type of computer using one OS and a single application for everyone
and every purpose in the world.

If only life were so simple.

Mred32

--
For most PC troubleshooting, a .22 will do the job.

Click to expand...

photoguynorth · Jun 29, 2004

In case you think I am wrong, the WIA driver for the 1D is ver 4.5.3, the 1Ds uses 5.0.2, the 10D uses 5.1.0, and the D60 uses 4.5.3. Olympus (you mentione Oly) doesn't put the driver versions on the website, but the drivers are there, along with these instructions http://www.olympusamerica.com/files/autoUSB.pdf
I think you probably get the picture.....

photoguynorth said:
ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

then why does Canon have Win XP compatibility built into the high end
1 D, 10 D, 1 Ds and D 60? Seems like they figured it out.
Plug and Play baby. Get it. Sure everyone of you has confirmed my
position. Just load this or that, upgrade that or this and works
fine.

Click to expand...

infosecgeek · Jun 29, 2004

Are you RETARDED? no I mean that.... Firstly... if you are too lazy to install drivers... then get a card reader... its more convienent, faster and doesn't require any software (yes with WinXP as well as Mac)

2nd... shoot JPEG and stop whining...

Thirdly even Linux can handle RAW with opensource (FREE) software...

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Why is it a work around ?
Ok, been using my oly p&s for 3.5 years. Lots of 35 mm SLRs, lens
PENTAX K mounts around my den now. Been into photo for 25 years.
Like the digital dark room experience. Ready to move up to a real
digital camera. Like the Rebel for $$$ to get me into Digi SLR. But
have to tell you EXCEPT for OLYMPUS, just about every camera I have
looked at has seemed to forgotten the digital part means it has to
work with a computer.

USB 2.0 is old , yet seems to be rare in digital cameras

Win XP compatible with WIA. Heck I just bought an external HDD.
Plug in and away we go.

For just about every camera including the Rebel Need to update a
driver or something always

Propietary files. RAW NEFF RAW this and that. Then have to get a
RAW converter.

Oh I could upgrade from PS 6.0.1 to CS and then download the
upgrade for the RAW format from the SLR. Adds another 180 bucks for
the CS upgrade, let alone the learning curve and the 100 bucks in
PS 6.0 books I have laying about

So lets get a camera that is a great camera and is WIN XP
compliant. Lets get real USB 2.0 connectivity and a file format
that WIN recognizes. Yes all you MAC folks have a superior OS but
the majority of us are in Windows environments

Phil Wheeler · Jun 29, 2004

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Why is it a work around ?
Ok, been using my oly p&s for 3.5 years. Lots of 35 mm SLRs, lens
PENTAX K mounts around my den now. Been into photo for 25 years.
Like the digital dark room experience. Ready to move up to a real
digital camera. Like the Rebel for $$$ to get me into Digi SLR. But
have to tell you EXCEPT for OLYMPUS, just about every camera I have
looked at has seemed to forgotten the digital part means it has to
work with a computer.

USB 2.0 is old , yet seems to be rare in digital cameras

Win XP compatible with WIA. Heck I just bought an external HDD.
Plug in and away we go.

For just about every camera including the Rebel Need to update a
driver or something always

Propietary files. RAW NEFF RAW this and that. Then have to get a
RAW converter.

Oh I could upgrade from PS 6.0.1 to CS and then download the
upgrade for the RAW format from the SLR. Adds another 180 bucks for
the CS upgrade, let alone the learning curve and the 100 bucks in
PS 6.0 books I have laying about

So lets get a camera that is a great camera and is WIN XP
compliant. Lets get real USB 2.0 connectivity and a file format
that WIN recognizes. Yes all you MAC folks have a superior OS but
the majority of us are in Windows environments

Daniella68313 · Jun 29, 2004

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Why is it a work around ?

what is a work around? and a work around what?

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Ok, been using my oly p&s for 3.5 years. Lots of 35 mm SLRs, lens
PENTAX K mounts around my den now. Been into photo for 25 years.
Like the digital dark room experience. Ready to move up to a real
digital camera. Like the Rebel for $$$ to get me into Digi SLR. But
have to tell you EXCEPT for OLYMPUS, just about every camera I have
looked at has seemed to forgotten the digital part means it has to
work with a computer.

huhh?? what's the point of going digital if you don't want anything to do with computers and processing? stick with film then, it's better for that.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
USB 2.0 is old , yet seems to be rare in digital cameras

It's pointless to use the camera as a downloading devise..I always use a card reader..much much better. EVen if the camera woudl be USB 200 I would still use a card reader.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Win XP compatible with WIA. Heck I just bought an external HDD.
Plug in and away we go.

For just about every camera including the Rebel Need to update a
driver or something always

Propietary files. RAW NEFF RAW this and that. Then have to get a
RAW converter.

you can shoot .jpg if you want. I shoot mostly .jpg.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Oh I could upgrade from PS 6.0.1 to CS and then download the
upgrade for the RAW format from the SLR. Adds another 180 bucks for
the CS upgrade, let alone the learning curve and the 100 bucks in
PS 6.0 books I have laying about

Or you could just shoot .jpg like you do with a point and shoot. Or you could just stick with film.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
So lets get a camera that is a great camera and is WIN XP
compliant. Lets get real USB 2.0 connectivity and a file format
that WIN recognizes. Yes all you MAC folks have a superior OS but
the majority of us are in Windows environments

sorry but I don't get the point of this post really...

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

RayN · Jun 29, 2004

Those models will have the same issues as the 300D. Checking
Canons site I see lots of updates for their software and firmware
for all their products (cameras to printers to photo copiers).

The CF card uses a PC file system so with a card reader it looks
like a disk drive. Every utility on your computer that supports
a disk drive will then work with your CF card in a card reader.

Maybe Canon should ship the 300D with a card reader instead of
PhotoShop

And yes, I have to agree USB 1.0 is lame on the 300D. In fact,
shipping the 300D with USB 1.0 is (as far as I am concerned) just
Canons way of saying "Use a card reader."

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
1 D, 10 D, 1 Ds and D 60? Seems like they figured it out.

Plug and Play baby. Get it. Sure everyone of you has confirmed my
position. Just load this or that, upgrade that or this and works
fine.

Mred32 said:

I'm not sure I understand what you would like Windows to do with a
RAW file. Since these files are not an image at all you can hardly
expect Windows to display them for you.

What you want can be done. You build the camera to be able to talk
to every OS that currently exists. This means that as soon as some
new OS arrives, you won't be able to use your camera with it
without a firmware upgrade. This firmware would need to have the
language of every possible OS embedded within it.

The better option would be to build a camera that is able to talk
through a common computer interface such as USB, and then provide
the drivers for your particular OS of choice.

If things were the way you wanted them, there would be only one
type of computer using one OS and a single application for everyone
and every purpose in the world.

If only life were so simple.

Mred32

--
For most PC troubleshooting, a .22 will do the job.

Click to expand...

ScottWilliams MMC/ss · Jun 30, 2004

Lets see if I can restate this so that you folks that have accepted the status quo can understand:

I just bought a new computer for digital work flow
Win XP
120 Gig HDD
2 Gig RAM
CDRW

I Use PS 6.0.1 and Want a new camera

But when I do I will have to accept USB 1.1!!! OLD Technology

Upgrade my PS to CS to read the RAW files or use a mini app from Canon to convert. Oh yes, it seems the RAW files from each manufacturer are propietary (some it seems).

I want easy work flow so looks like the upgrade to CS is the option.

I get it but why is that acceptable? Would you accept this support from anyother computer component? A new super duper 1000 buck component?

Yes the card reader is obvious, but why not just forego the obsolete USB connectivity?

The Win XP Logo means plug in and it works.........

Nice flame, btw, from the guy that asked if I was retarded. Thanks for the assistance, meaningful dialoge, helpful information, hope I run into you needing some assistance somewhere sometime.

Daniella68313 said:
ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

Why is it a work around ?

Click to expand...

what is a work around? and a work around what?

Daniella68313 said:

Ok, been using my oly p&s for 3.5 years. Lots of 35 mm SLRs, lens
PENTAX K mounts around my den now. Been into photo for 25 years.
Like the digital dark room experience. Ready to move up to a real
digital camera. Like the Rebel for $$$ to get me into Digi SLR. But
have to tell you EXCEPT for OLYMPUS, just about every camera I have
looked at has seemed to forgotten the digital part means it has to
work with a computer.

Click to expand...

SwC · Jun 30, 2004

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
But when I do I will have to accept USB 1.1!!! OLD Technology

I do agree with this. USB 2.0 has been around for a while now, and if my little HP iPaq (a 1 year+ design) can use it, why can't a new Canon digital camera?

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Upgrade my PS to CS to read the RAW files or use a mini app from
Canon to convert. Oh yes, it seems the RAW files from each
manufacturer are propietary (some it seems).

As I understand it, the RAW data is the sensor output with some embedded parameters (and a JPEG image). Different manufacturers would use different sensors and I would have thought that the RAW data that they export varies. This is not the same as, say, a JPEG or TIFF file as they store the same info per pixel regardless of source. I did read the suggestion that perhaps the 300D should support TIFF, but a) it's an entry-level DSLR, and b) TIFF files (even with LZW/Huffman/etc. lossless compression) are significantly larger than RAW files from Canon cameras. Probably to do with the Beyer(sp?) pattern and the fact that only luminance is stored for each "pixel" in RAW. However, someone with more knowledge on this may be able to provide more info,

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
I want easy work flow so looks like the upgrade to CS is the option.

I get it but why is that acceptable? Would you accept this support
from anyother computer component? A new super duper 1000 buck
component?

Depends what the component does - and it is NOT a PC component. It's a camera. It just happens to be able to plug into a PC. Price has nothing whatsoever to do with it. You have to compare like with like. It's a digital camera. Compare it with other digital cameras. You certainly cannot compare it with some PC component.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Yes the card reader is obvious, but why not just forego the
obsolete USB connectivity?

USB 2.0 would have been nice. I'm still not sure what the logic was in not using it. Personally speaking, as someone who has been using CF cards from the year dot, I prefer not to remove them from a device more than is necessary. Although I'm sure both the card and device designs have gone through many insertion test cycles, they are still fragile given the small pins on the device(s).

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
The Win XP Logo means plug in and it works.........

As someone who works with MS software and develops for it.... no it does not really. To be fair, how can XP (or any other OS) possibly "just work" when a new device is plugged in?? It will need a driver, or the device will need to emulate an existing device for which XP has drivers (i.e. shipped on the XP CD-ROM). Doing so limits the flexibility of the connection. By the way, you can change the USB connection mode in the camera to do what you want, I believe. I think it's called PTP or something, but I can't remember off the top of my head. But you loose certain advantages such as interaction with Canon's software.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Nice flame, btw, from the guy that asked if I was retarded. Thanks
for the assistance, meaningful dialoge, helpful information, hope I
run into you needing some assistance somewhere sometime.

I agree, it was not called for.

indulis · Jun 30, 2004

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
I Use PS 6.0.1 and Want a new camera

But when I do I will have to accept USB 1.1!!! OLD Technology

Agree- but the card reader route (plug CF card into USB 2 reader) works very well! Also, you remove the CF card to plug into digital wallets (portable 20GB laptop drive with enough smarts to dump the CF card to the hard drive). I suspect that the version of DIGIC processor in the camera couldn't do USB 2.0, so we have USB 1.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Upgrade my PS to CS to read the RAW files or use a mini app from
Canon to convert. Oh yes, it seems the RAW files from each
manufacturer are propietary (some it seems).

The app from Canon is fine. If you want batch workflow it will do it, or alternatively use the free DCRAW program for Linux and Windows and Mac & write a shell script to do it.. Or use The GIMP (free) with the (free) RAWPHOTO plugin to do the job.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
I want easy work flow so looks like the upgrade to CS is the option.

Yes- maybe it is, you pay for lots of software, why should digital photos be different (well until the ideal open source workflow is developed, volunteers gratefully accepted).

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
I get it but why is that acceptable? Would you accept this support
from anyother computer component?

You do every time you use a proprietary Windows format. Word .doc formal, Excel XLS format, Powerpoint PPT format, etc etc etc. You are forced to buy the corresponding s/w.

Anyway, digital is fun, even without the addon $ for s/w packages!

Cheers,

Indulis

Eric Bond · Jun 30, 2004

ScottWilliams MMC/ss wrote:
SNIP

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
I Use PS 6.0.1 and Want a new camera

But when I do I will have to accept USB 1.1!!! OLD Technology
Upgrade my PS to CS to read the RAW files or use a mini app from
Canon to convert. Oh yes, it seems the RAW files from each
manufacturer are propietary (some it seems).

I want easy work flow so looks like the upgrade to CS is the option.

I get it but why is that acceptable? Would you accept this support
from anyother computer component? A new super duper 1000 buck
component?

snip

On specifically the workflow thought and Photoshop, why buy a new computer, large storage and memory and NOT buy the latest Photoshop that specifically supports one of the greatest advantages of the camera? In this case, it is you trying to get old technology to do something it wasn't designed to do and increasing your frustration.

Why one would persist in making USB 1.1 an issue, I have no idea. I would not use the camera to download from even if 2.0 were standard on it. While I'm not a battery life freak, I see no reason to drain the battery in this manner, nor have the camera out of my hands (control) while it's tethered to a laptop/PC. Besides, I can't do anything else at all with the camera during the download phase. I'd rather have the camera available for other purposes, if need be.

TugBoat · Jun 30, 2004

Scott,

You have great situation awareness. You see all the problems before diving in. So the situation is unacceptable to you. You should really wait a few years before going digital.

The situation is the situation. All this talk from us won't change it. So there is nothing to agree or disagree. You either accept it and get a dSLR from Canon or another company. Or you don't acept it and do something else.

What can I do for you? Really nothing. We are at the forefront of technology and there are bugs and glitches. I can't change it.

Windows is not perfect and Macs are not perfect. They don't even talk to each other easily. I can't change that either. So do we wait until the bugs are fixed to buy a new computer?

Daniella68313 · Jun 30, 2004

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Lets see if I can restate this so that you folks that have accepted
the status quo can understand:

I just bought a new computer for digital work flow
Win XP
120 Gig HDD
2 Gig RAM
CDRW

I Use PS 6.0.1 and Want a new camera

But when I do I will have to accept USB 1.1!!! OLD Technology
Upgrade my PS to CS to read the RAW files or use a mini app from
Canon to convert. Oh yes, it seems the RAW files from each
manufacturer are propietary (some it seems).

no, you will have to buy a card reader...that is no joke. but yes your computer can accept USB 1.1 if you want to use that. I use USB 2 with my Tripper.

why CS? I use Adobe Camera raw plugin but I think that work with PS 7 only.

Also you can shoot .jpg and use the Canon software for raw.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
I want easy work flow so looks like the upgrade to CS is the option.

no, simply shoot .jpg..it is the easiest and you can do much of the postprocessing in-camera.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
I get it but why is that acceptable?

why it is not???

Would you accept this support

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
from anyother computer component? A new super duper 1000 buck
component?

buy a 1000$ computer and see if it does has much as your 2000$ computer...why did you buy a computer that cost 2000$ when you could have bought one for 500$ brand new? that is irrevelant.

one should never use the camera as a downloading devise...it is a waste of the camera and I woudl only do that if no other possibility exist.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Yes the card reader is obvious, but why not just forego the
obsolete USB connectivity?

even the cameras that do have USB 2 are much slower than a real USB 2 reader but I have a solution for you...

buy a Kodak Pro DSLR and get firewire if you want speed..or I think the 1Ds is ..not sure..but there are faster cameras for download just as there is faster computer for the money...you just get what you pay for...get it?

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
The Win XP Logo means plug in and it works.........

I don't need a driver...I use a USB reader but the driver is provided so not a big deal if you really want to use the camera for downloading.

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
Nice flame, btw, from the guy that asked if I was retarded. Thanks
for the assistance, meaningful dialoge, helpful information, hope I
run into you needing some assistance somewhere sometime.

well...a lot of your message did not make much sense but I am not the type of person to call other names. Some here are not realy polite but it is a free forum..so you get what you pay for

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:
ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

Why is it a work around ?

Click to expand...

what is a work around? and a work around what?

ScottWilliams MMC/ss said:

Ok, been using my oly p&s for 3.5 years. Lots of 35 mm SLRs, lens
PENTAX K mounts around my den now. Been into photo for 25 years.
Like the digital dark room experience. Ready to move up to a real
digital camera. Like the Rebel for $$$ to get me into Digi SLR. But
have to tell you EXCEPT for OLYMPUS, just about every camera I have
looked at has seemed to forgotten the digital part means it has to
work with a computer.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Minë Corma hostië të ilyë ar mordossë nutië të
Mornórëo Nóressë yassë i Fuini caitar.
Un thoron arart’a s’un hith mal’kemen ioke.
Saurulmaiel

Why is it a work around

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