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Samples Minolta A1, Sony W1, Canon S60, Nikon 5200
- Thread starter Photo-Wiz
- Start date
I added a roof tile picture taken with the A1 with sharpening set to "normal." It was much nicer than the prior picture.
http://www.photo.andrehassid.net
Andre
Taco
Leading Member
--I added a roof tile picture taken with the A1 with sharpening set
to "normal." It was much nicer than the prior picture.
http://www.photo.andrehassid.net
Andre
Bill T
Everything I learned about computers I learned because I never read the manuals. Does this hold true for my A2.
I am on this side of the pond so pardon my English
ranchocalypso
Member
Dear Andre,
As it has been discussed many times (perhaps you haven't been here before?) the 'out of the camera' exposure vs. 'post processed' exposure has to be considered. I think the only fair test is to take a shot(s) and post process to arrive at the best quality photo. If after all effort one camera produces a better photo than another you may have something. I played with the A1 photo in Photoshop CS and was able to create as good or better photo as any of your samples. The end result has to include post processing to be fair IMHO
As it has been discussed many times (perhaps you haven't been here before?) the 'out of the camera' exposure vs. 'post processed' exposure has to be considered. I think the only fair test is to take a shot(s) and post process to arrive at the best quality photo. If after all effort one camera produces a better photo than another you may have something. I played with the A1 photo in Photoshop CS and was able to create as good or better photo as any of your samples. The end result has to include post processing to be fair IMHO
There's a lot of merit in what you say. Each of the photos could be improved. Still the one constant shortcomming of the A1 is the relatively high level of noise. The A1 is still a wonderful camera. But the noise is indeed a problem.Dear Andre,
As it has been discussed many times (perhaps you haven't been here
before?) the 'out of the camera' exposure vs. 'post processed'
exposure has to be considered. I think the only fair test is to
take a shot(s) and post process to arrive at the best quality
photo. If after all effort one camera produces a better photo than
another you may have something. I played with the A1 photo in
Photoshop CS and was able to create as good or better photo as any
of your samples. The end result has to include post processing to
be fair IMHO
Andre
sparrowminded
Forum Enthusiast
--You're playing a wierd little game here, Andre'. I DON'T believe that you have come into posession of ANY of these cams legitimately. Rather, I assert that you are taking unfair advantage of some stores' return policy in your own efforts to shop around. Sooner or later, this thread will be viewed by John from down under, who is the A1 authority here, and his earned experience will annihilate your every remark regarding the A1.There's a lot of merit in what you say. Each of the photos couldDear Andre,
As it has been discussed many times (perhaps you haven't been here
before?) the 'out of the camera' exposure vs. 'post processed'
exposure has to be considered. I think the only fair test is to
take a shot(s) and post process to arrive at the best quality
photo. If after all effort one camera produces a better photo than
another you may have something. I played with the A1 photo in
Photoshop CS and was able to create as good or better photo as any
of your samples. The end result has to include post processing to
be fair IMHO
be improved. Still the one constant shortcomming of the A1 is the
relatively high level of noise. The A1 is still a wonderful
camera. But the noise is indeed a problem.
Andre
If your efforts here were genuine, you would also be looking at the current 6 Mp offerings; ie: the Minolta 600; the Olympus C60; the Fuji 700 and the Fuji 7000. You are a fake, sir, who is incurring great cost on a store owner who is bound to a return policy that you are abusing.
Buy something, and then tell us about your genuine honest effort to exploit your abilities.
Who am I to blow against the wind? -Paul Simon
It is amazing the conclusions some people reach without any facts! The only camera in this group that was returned was the Nikon 5200 - and that was because I wasn't satisfied with my inability to get sharp picture. So you'll need to come up with a new theory. But frankly I'm not even sure I understand the reasons for your remarks. I put the pictures on the web site because it was a fun extension of the hobby I love so much -- and I wanted to share it with other people on this forum because I know they enjoy the same hobby. Nothing more, nothing sinister. You may want to revisit how you develop theories, and why you would say what you said.--You're playing a wierd little game here, Andre'. I DON'T believeAndre
that you have come into posession of ANY of these cams
legitimately. Rather, I assert that you are taking unfair
advantage of some stores' return policy in your own efforts to shop
around. Sooner or later, this thread will be viewed by John from
down under, who is the A1 authority here, and his earned experience
will annihilate your every remark regarding the A1.
If your efforts here were genuine, you would also be looking at the
current 6 Mp offerings; ie: the Minolta 600; the Olympus C60; the
Fuji 700 and the Fuji 7000. You are a fake, sir, who is incurring
great cost on a store owner who is bound to a return policy that
you are abusing.
Buy something, and then tell us about your genuine honest effort to
exploit your abilities.
sparrowminded
Forum Enthusiast
--Why then, would ANYONE actually purchase so many versions of what amounts to the SAME THING? If one bothers to work with PP with any of the cams that you present, one can arrive at some very passable work.It is amazing the conclusions some people reach without any facts!--You're playing a wierd little game here, Andre'. I DON'T believeAndre
that you have come into posession of ANY of these cams
legitimately. Rather, I assert that you are taking unfair
advantage of some stores' return policy in your own efforts to shop
around. Sooner or later, this thread will be viewed by John from
down under, who is the A1 authority here, and his earned experience
will annihilate your every remark regarding the A1.
If your efforts here were genuine, you would also be looking at the
current 6 Mp offerings; ie: the Minolta 600; the Olympus C60; the
Fuji 700 and the Fuji 7000. You are a fake, sir, who is incurring
great cost on a store owner who is bound to a return policy that
you are abusing.
Buy something, and then tell us about your genuine honest effort to
exploit your abilities.
The only camera in this group that was returned was the Nikon 5200
sharp picture. So you'll need to come up with a new theory. But
- and that was because I wasn't satisfied with my inability to get
frankly I'm not even sure I understand the reasons for your
remarks. I put the pictures on the web site because it was a fun
extension of the hobby I love so much -- and I wanted to share it
with other people on this forum because I know they enjoy the same
hobby. Nothing more, nothing sinister. You may want to revisit how
you develop theories, and why you would say what you said.
In a similar comparison, I have seen that NO-ONE has purchased more than 2 of the 8 Mp prosumers, and with experience, one of those 2 were eliminated. What are you trying to do here? None of your "reviews" are at all detailed, and much of your "data" is plainly erroneous.
If you are wealthy enough to just go out and spend $3,000 to $5,000 for an array of cameras and memory formats, why don't you just graduate to larger formats?
Who am I to blow against the wind? -Paul Simon
The rest of this goes:
I know what I know
I'll sing what I said
We come and we go
It's a thing that I keep in the back of my head.
And that is why I wonder just what you are trying to do here.....
I"m not "wealthy" and frankly I don't think it's really your business why I buy what I buy. The first thing you might think of doing is at least apologizing for that unfounded accusation. Also, what "data" is plainly wrong. I basically posted the photos with a few comments.amounts to the SAME THING? If one bothers to work with PP with any--Why then, would ANYONE actually purchase so many versions of what
of the cams that you present, one can arrive at some very passable
work.
In a similar comparison, I have seen that NO-ONE has purchased more
than 2 of the 8 Mp prosumers, and with experience, one of those 2
were eliminated. What are you trying to do here? None of your
"reviews" are at all detailed, and much of your "data" is plainly
erroneous.
If you are wealthy enough to just go out and spend $3,000 to $5,000
for an array of cameras and memory formats, why don't you just
graduate to larger formats?
As for the comment that these cameras are "so many versions of the same thing" I must respectfully disagree. The W1 and the Panasonic are not the same thing or even remotely close. While the Panasonic and A1 may have a little similarity, they are still quite different. One with a wide lens capability (28mm) and the other with a very long focal lens capability 420mm). As for the rest, I got the 5200 as a small portable camera. Not satisfied with it I got the W1 with which I am satisfied. Then I picked up the S60 because it is portable yet has 28mm wide. I recycle cameras I don't use by selling them on the Internet. So in the end I take a small financial hit. But really not that much - and I get to try different equipment. OVerall not that much money for a hobby I like so much. Probably less expensive than someone buying Season Tickets to baseball games or Footbal games. It's just for the fun of it - which is why I was taken aback by your rather insulting comments.
Andre
ranchocalypso
Member
Dear Andre & Sparrowminded,
Seems to be a rather harsh exchange here. I tend to agree with Andre regarding his purchase(s) and personal business etc. I'm not sure why Sparrowminded is so heavy handed about the number of cameras one might own or return. I appreciate the opportunity to read about experience with multiple camera models. I can't say I agree about Andre's noise comments with the A1 ;-). From what I have read, one might need to own several of one model to make a 'fair' determination of quality - yet this is rather an indictment in itself. I have certainly seen some GREAT photos produced from Ax camera's. In the mean time peace brothers ;-)
Seems to be a rather harsh exchange here. I tend to agree with Andre regarding his purchase(s) and personal business etc. I'm not sure why Sparrowminded is so heavy handed about the number of cameras one might own or return. I appreciate the opportunity to read about experience with multiple camera models. I can't say I agree about Andre's noise comments with the A1 ;-). From what I have read, one might need to own several of one model to make a 'fair' determination of quality - yet this is rather an indictment in itself. I have certainly seen some GREAT photos produced from Ax camera's. In the mean time peace brothers ;-)
I"m not "wealthy" and frankly I don't think it's really youramounts to the SAME THING? If one bothers to work with PP with any--Why then, would ANYONE actually purchase so many versions of what
of the cams that you present, one can arrive at some very passable
work.
In a similar comparison, I have seen that NO-ONE has purchased more
than 2 of the 8 Mp prosumers, and with experience, one of those 2
were eliminated. What are you trying to do here? None of your
"reviews" are at all detailed, and much of your "data" is plainly
erroneous.
If you are wealthy enough to just go out and spend $3,000 to $5,000
for an array of cameras and memory formats, why don't you just
graduate to larger formats?
business why I buy what I buy. The first thing you might think of
doing is at least apologizing for that unfounded accusation. Also,
what "data" is plainly wrong. I basically posted the photos with a
few comments.
As for the comment that these cameras are "so many versions of the
same thing" I must respectfully disagree. The W1 and the Panasonic
are not the same thing or even remotely close. While the Panasonic
and A1 may have a little similarity, they are still quite
different. One with a wide lens capability (28mm) and the other
with a very long focal lens capability 420mm). As for the rest, I
got the 5200 as a small portable camera. Not satisfied with it I
got the W1 with which I am satisfied. Then I picked up the S60
because it is portable yet has 28mm wide. I recycle cameras I
don't use by selling them on the Internet. So in the end I take a
small financial hit. But really not that much - and I get to try
different equipment. OVerall not that much money for a hobby I like
so much. Probably less expensive than someone buying Season
Tickets to baseball games or Footbal games. It's just for the fun
of it - which is why I was taken aback by your rather insulting
comments.
Andre
jimr
Forum Pro
Dear Andre,
I have alot of respect for you and your well considered opinions. Might I ask for your conclusion based upon printed pictures as opposed to those viewed on a monitor? How do the models compare in picture quality? Thank you!
I have alot of respect for you and your well considered opinions. Might I ask for your conclusion based upon printed pictures as opposed to those viewed on a monitor? How do the models compare in picture quality? Thank you!
netscorer
Forum Enthusiast
To attack a person's post without ANY foundation is totally uncool. This is first and foremost an open forum to exchange ideas, not accusations.
I liked André's site, even if it was not the most scientifically-based comparison. For one thing, it gave me the opportunity to see the difference in pictures taken by different cameras of the same or similar subjects provided as it is, without trying to postprocess them to hide any defects.
People who often this forum know well that A1 out-of-the-box may not produce the best colors or the cleanest picture. What separates it from the competition is it's unequalled attempt to provide the most versatile photographic instrument with great innovation.
André, I am with you - please keep doing what you are doing.
Cheers,
netscorer.
I liked André's site, even if it was not the most scientifically-based comparison. For one thing, it gave me the opportunity to see the difference in pictures taken by different cameras of the same or similar subjects provided as it is, without trying to postprocess them to hide any defects.
People who often this forum know well that A1 out-of-the-box may not produce the best colors or the cleanest picture. What separates it from the competition is it's unequalled attempt to provide the most versatile photographic instrument with great innovation.
André, I am with you - please keep doing what you are doing.
Cheers,
netscorer.
--Why then, would ANYONE actually purchase so many versions of whatIt is amazing the conclusions some people reach without any facts!--You're playing a wierd little game here, Andre'. I DON'T believeAndre
that you have come into posession of ANY of these cams
legitimately. Rather, I assert that you are taking unfair
advantage of some stores' return policy in your own efforts to shop
around. Sooner or later, this thread will be viewed by John from
down under, who is the A1 authority here, and his earned experience
will annihilate your every remark regarding the A1.
If your efforts here were genuine, you would also be looking at the
current 6 Mp offerings; ie: the Minolta 600; the Olympus C60; the
Fuji 700 and the Fuji 7000. You are a fake, sir, who is incurring
great cost on a store owner who is bound to a return policy that
you are abusing.
Buy something, and then tell us about your genuine honest effort to
exploit your abilities.
The only camera in this group that was returned was the Nikon 5200
sharp picture. So you'll need to come up with a new theory. But
- and that was because I wasn't satisfied with my inability to get
frankly I'm not even sure I understand the reasons for your
remarks. I put the pictures on the web site because it was a fun
extension of the hobby I love so much -- and I wanted to share it
with other people on this forum because I know they enjoy the same
hobby. Nothing more, nothing sinister. You may want to revisit how
you develop theories, and why you would say what you said.
amounts to the SAME THING? If one bothers to work with PP with any
of the cams that you present, one can arrive at some very passable
work.
In a similar comparison, I have seen that NO-ONE has purchased more
than 2 of the 8 Mp prosumers, and with experience, one of those 2
were eliminated. What are you trying to do here? None of your
"reviews" are at all detailed, and much of your "data" is plainly
erroneous.
If you are wealthy enough to just go out and spend $3,000 to $5,000
for an array of cameras and memory formats, why don't you just
graduate to larger formats?
Who am I to blow against the wind? -Paul Simon
The rest of this goes:
I know what I know
I'll sing what I said
We come and we go
It's a thing that I keep in the back of my head.
And that is why I wonder just what you are trying to do here.....
Thanks James,Dear Andre,
I have alot of respect for you and your well considered opinions.
Might I ask for your conclusion based upon printed pictures as
opposed to those viewed on a monitor? How do the models compare in
picture quality? Thank you!
I must admit I haven't printed from all the cameras. As yet I have not made prints with the S60. But the prints from the W1 have been nothing short of spectacular. The Nikon 5200 prints were actually decent, but lacked that sharpness that is so evident in the W1.
The Minolta A1 prints have been good, but in 6-7 months of owning it, I haven't made that many prints from it. I've made lots of prints from the Panasonic FZ-10. The shots in very low light - like the oregon sparrow shot look nice from two feet away. But up close you do see the noise. But shots like the begonia picture come out silky smooth, and really looks spectacluar.
I'm going to take a bunch of pictures with the A1 and S60 this weekend to compare the shots on the computer and in print (that is if I get the time.)
I note that Digital Resources will post an S60 review this week (maybe it's already up). I'm looking forward to reading Jeff's reviews, as I think his reviews end up being very close to my own observations. For instance he raved about the FZ-10, and based on his recommendations I bought one -- absolutely love it.
Andre
Thanks. I happen to visit sparrowmind's site. It's actually very good also. Has good shots to compare cameras. If memory serves me right, he has an A2 and an S60.André, I am with you - please keep doing what you are doing.
Cheers,
I put up my site for fun. I know it's not scientifically pure, and with more time, I could probably even the playing field even more. But within the timeframe I wanted to devote to it, I did the best I could.
The one thing that I tried to do that's not easily available elsewhere, is to compare cameras that aren't necessarily on the same shopping list. For instance if you're shopping for an A1, you're probably not in the market for a W1. If your're shopping for the FZ-10, you're probably not in the market for the S60. But to me it's intersting to see the differences these cameras yield on similar shots. The natural tendency is to think that something like the A1 will outperform something like the W1. But to my eyes (and admittedly not to everyone), and to my surprise the W1 outperforms the A1 on equivalent shots. Now the A1 has more flexibility, more controls, more settings, goes wider (28mm) and longer (200mm). It also accepts filters and is much more sophisticated. But in the end, on equivalent shots the W1 took better pictures.
Could the site be better? Yes. Could someone else do it better? Definitely yes. Did I overlook something. With over 100,000 hits on my site in 3 days, I'm sure many many people found things I overlooked. But I did the best I could within the timeframe I wanted to spend. I still think the comparisons are interesting. Especially if you throw in the mix all the other valuable information available on the professional sites like dpreview, digital resources, steve's digicam, megapixels and others.
Andre
sparrowminded
Forum Enthusiast
--I do apologize only to the extent of accusing you of not honestly obtaining your cameras.Thanks. I happen to visit sparrowmind's site. It's actually veryAndré, I am with you - please keep doing what you are doing.
Cheers,
good also. Has good shots to compare cameras. If memory serves me
right, he has an A2 and an S60.
I put up my site for fun. I know it's not scientifically pure, and
with more time, I could probably even the playing field even more.
But within the timeframe I wanted to devote to it, I did the best I
could.
The one thing that I tried to do that's not easily available
elsewhere, is to compare cameras that aren't necessarily on the
same shopping list. For instance if you're shopping for an A1,
you're probably not in the market for a W1. If your're shopping
for the FZ-10, you're probably not in the market for the S60. But
to me it's intersting to see the differences these cameras yield on
similar shots. The natural tendency is to think that something
like the A1 will outperform something like the W1. But to my eyes
(and admittedly not to everyone), and to my surprise the W1
outperforms the A1 on equivalent shots. Now the A1 has more
flexibility, more controls, more settings, goes wider (28mm) and
longer (200mm). It also accepts filters and is much more
sophisticated. But in the end, on equivalent shots the W1 took
better pictures.
Could the site be better? Yes. Could someone else do it better?
Definitely yes. Did I overlook something. With over 100,000 hits
on my site in 3 days, I'm sure many many people found things I
overlooked. But I did the best I could within the timeframe I
wanted to spend. I still think the comparisons are interesting.
Especially if you throw in the mix all the other valuable
information available on the professional sites like dpreview,
digital resources, steve's digicam, megapixels and others.
Andre
One of the posts said something about "hiding camera flaws in PP". One is only able to process information that was there to begin with. A "flawed" camera would not provide that information.
I draw a distinct line between photographs and snapshots. For this reason, I would not consider purchasing a camera that is not capable of recording in RAW format. "Snapshots" can be printed on any desktop printer, ranging from the little 4 x 6 units to a standard 8.5 x 11. Photographs begin at 11 x 14... I would not compare the W1 to the A1 any more than I would compare a Chrysler to a BMW, or horror to drama. One can easily draw 100,000 hits in a very broad sample. The count decreases when one seeks a more discerning audience...
Who am I to blow against the wind? -Paul Simon
Thanks - greatly appreciated. How do you like the A2 (if I remember right from your site, that's one of your cameras). Some reviews I've read prefer it quite a bit over the A1.--I do apologize only to the extent of accusing you of not honestly
obtaining your cameras.
Andre
I believe you've accidentally duplicated the same roof tile shot for both the S60 and the W1, seen here:
http://www.photo.andrehassid.net/contents4.html
Not even two examples of the Same model camera will make shots so perfectly matched...
http://www.photo.andrehassid.net/contents4.html
Not even two examples of the Same model camera will make shots so perfectly matched...
You're right. Sorry about that. I posted a correction. S60 definitely looks better than the W1 in this picture. Panasonic still looks the best though.I believe you've accidentally duplicated the same roof tile shot
for both the S60 and the W1, seen here:
http://www.photo.andrehassid.net/contents4.html
Andre
I Posted more Tile shots and Car shots. Canon S60 continues to shine. A1 continues to show noise. - at least to my eyes. Obvious A1 advantage is the ability to go 200mm which can be very useful.
Andre
http://www.photo.andrehassid.net
Andre
http://www.photo.andrehassid.net
jimr
Forum Pro
Andre...Thank you. I am still sitting on the fence. I own a Nikon dc...looking at others. One..the W1 has recieved such superb reviews, yet a few repeatedly complain about sharpness. Some posters..just love to complain...no camera outside of the brand they love..is anything but junk. At any rate, could you possibly tell me why the user complaints are so different from the wonderful professional reviews that are consistanly positive????. Thank you...Awaiting your valued conclusion.
I must admit I haven't printed from all the cameras. As yet I have
not made prints with the S60. But the prints from the W1 have
been nothing short of spectacular. The Nikon 5200 prints were
actually decent, but lacked that sharpness that is so evident in
the W1.
The Minolta A1 prints have been good, but in 6-7 months of owning
it, I haven't made that many prints from it. I've made lots of
prints from the Panasonic FZ-10. The shots in very low light -
like the oregon sparrow shot look nice from two feet away. But up
close you do see the noise. But shots like the begonia picture
come out silky smooth, and really looks spectacluar.
I'm going to take a bunch of pictures with the A1 and S60 this
weekend to compare the shots on the computer and in print (that is
if I get the time.)
I note that Digital Resources will post an S60 review this week
(maybe it's already up). I'm looking forward to reading Jeff's
reviews, as I think his reviews end up being very close to my own
observations. For instance he raved about the FZ-10, and based on
his recommendations I bought one -- absolutely love it.
Andre
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