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Oh no OldSkoOL not more curve tests!

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what, for you, is the best all-around curve?

thanks!

--
Regards,
Han Phil Vahn

Nikon D70, AF-S 18-70mm & 50mm 1.8
Sony DSC V1
Sony HVL1000
Sony CD 400
 
Personally, i keep the MTB v1 curve in my camera all the time. For me its used in most of the shots i take such as landscapes, people, buildings etc. For me it gives me a starting canvas that corrects underexposure without compromising highlights. THe MTB curve evens out exposure so i can correctly under or over expose depending on the scene. The MTB v1 curve from my tests is pretty much the same as the ev3 curve. The MTB curve i think is more punchy in the colours due to the differences in gamma calibration between the two curves.

I did also make the MTC curve which is mainly for floral shooters. It adds in more contrast whilst giving a +0.3ev midtone boost. In theory it should bring out more detail from the shadows/midtones whilst keeping the contrast and colour in floral shoots. Its a true +0.3ev boost, as someone mentioned earlier it was too bright for them. I decided to ensure it was a true +0.3ev boost because theres no point trying to compete with the normal in camera tone curve. I gave people the option.

There are some times when i wouldnt use custom curves. When im photographing a scene thats very contrasty such as midday harsh direct sunlight, i'd opt for a medium-low contrast tone or Auto.

hth!!
Han Phil Vahn said:
what, for you, is the best all-around curve?

thanks!

--
Regards,
Han Phil Vahn

Nikon D70, AF-S 18-70mm & 50mm 1.8
Sony DSC V1
Sony HVL1000
Sony CD 400
Click to expand...
--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
Next week, I'm off to Colorado for a long weekend. I plan to shoot a lot of landscape type scenes, including a bunch of wide angle scenic shots.

So far, I"m taking my kit lens, my Sigma 28-200mm, circular polarizer, Tiffen .6 Graduated ND filter, Tiffen Enhancing filter (just b/c I have it....I
got it to use in the fall for the foliage...not sure if I'll use it or not).

Which curve would you recommend that I "pack"?

Thanks,
pjordan
 
Personally I would recommend a midtone boost curve. Your options are in no particular order

Davids Midtone Boost
OldSkoOLS MTB v1
Fotogenics ev3

The reason why you should go for a midtone boost type curve is... The majority of landscape shooters would typically meter for the midtones (reason why? because midtones bring out the definitions in landscapes shots). You need to ensure your midtones are well exposed to give good tonal range and emphasis to a landscape shot. Metering for the midtones will first get an average exposure for the scene, unless the sky is dominating, then you need to preserve meter the sky to preserve detail detail and typically take a compromise reading etc. The midtones need to dominate a landscape shot to ensure exposure is even and the landscape shot doesnt end up too contrasty which wont work. Therefore, a midtone boost curves works well to lift the contrast from the midtones that the normal curve gives.

Using the normal curve would typically underexpose and you would see too much contrast for a good colour landscape shot. I know which curve i would use but for you, your tastes may differ.

THere are also two other curve options

White Wedding v35
Provia v34

These curves are mainly calabrated for the d100 due to the higher EV boost but have proven their excellent calabration to produce good shots from the D70. As i would advise to anyone, if you meter correctly your shots will always come out well. Provia will mainly aim to give a low contrast shots but maintain good tonal range. The curve will produce more pastel colours overall. Provia is very similar to the medium or low contrast in camera curve but with the advantage of an ev brightness boost.

Decisions decisions, its a tough one but considering your shooting a D70 i'd go for either the MTB v1 or ev3 curve. Theres hardly anything in them imho. I posted earlier in this thread the differences i found, but only minor colour differences. Its as much a flip of the coin scenario. Myself i use the MTB v1 because i created it. If you ask fotogenic he'd tell you he uses the ev3 if he had a d70.

Ideally some others can add their oppinion and maybe some guys can post shots for you.

hth!!
pjordan said:
Next week, I'm off to Colorado for a long weekend. I plan to shoot
a lot of landscape type scenes, including a bunch of wide angle
scenic shots.

So far, I"m taking my kit lens, my Sigma 28-200mm, circular
polarizer, Tiffen .6 Graduated ND filter, Tiffen Enhancing filter
(just b/c I have it....I
got it to use in the fall for the foliage...not sure if I'll use it
or not).

Which curve would you recommend that I "pack"?

Thanks,
pjordan
Click to expand...
--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
Very useful to see your reasons for different curves, of course, held together with real pictures shot with the curves. Can't wait to try this out myself :-)

Thomas.
OldSkoOL said:
Davids Midtone Boost
OldSkoOLS MTB v1
Fotogenics ev3

The reason why you should go for a midtone boost type curve is...
The majority of landscape shooters would typically meter for the
midtones (reason why? because midtones bring out the definitions in
landscapes shots). You need to ensure your midtones are well
exposed to give good tonal range and emphasis to a landscape shot.
Metering for the midtones will first get an average exposure for
the scene, unless the sky is dominating, then you need to preserve
meter the sky to preserve detail detail and typically take a
compromise reading etc. The midtones need to dominate a landscape
shot to ensure exposure is even and the landscape shot doesnt end
up too contrasty which wont work. Therefore, a midtone boost curves
works well to lift the contrast from the midtones that the normal
curve gives.

Using the normal curve would typically underexpose and you would
see too much contrast for a good colour landscape shot. I know
which curve i would use but for you, your tastes may differ.

THere are also two other curve options

White Wedding v35
Provia v34

These curves are mainly calabrated for the d100 due to the higher
EV boost but have proven their excellent calabration to produce
good shots from the D70. As i would advise to anyone, if you meter
correctly your shots will always come out well. Provia will mainly
aim to give a low contrast shots but maintain good tonal range. The
curve will produce more pastel colours overall. Provia is very
similar to the medium or low contrast in camera curve but with the
advantage of an ev brightness boost.

Decisions decisions, its a tough one but considering your shooting
a D70 i'd go for either the MTB v1 or ev3 curve. Theres hardly
anything in them imho. I posted earlier in this thread the
differences i found, but only minor colour differences. Its as much
a flip of the coin scenario. Myself i use the MTB v1 because i
created it. If you ask fotogenic he'd tell you he uses the ev3 if
he had a d70.

Ideally some others can add their oppinion and maybe some guys can
post shots for you.

hth!!
pjordan said:
Next week, I'm off to Colorado for a long weekend. I plan to shoot
a lot of landscape type scenes, including a bunch of wide angle
scenic shots.

So far, I"m taking my kit lens, my Sigma 28-200mm, circular
polarizer, Tiffen .6 Graduated ND filter, Tiffen Enhancing filter
(just b/c I have it....I
got it to use in the fall for the foliage...not sure if I'll use it
or not).

Which curve would you recommend that I "pack"?

Thanks,
pjordan
Click to expand...
--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
Click to expand...
 
Heres a link to some galleries that were shot with my MTB curve range

http://www.pbase.com/oldskoo1/images_by_project

In particulary, this gallery http://www.pbase.com/oldskoo1/ad23 is mainly landscape shots with the MTB curve

Some other examples

Here is an example of how i metered for the sky detail but was able to recover the midtone detail of the building better due to the midtone boost :

http://www.pbase.com/image/29997230

An example of a floral shot :

http://www.pbase.com/image/29997229

Some examples of how the curve holds its highlight detail and contrast even when using center-weighted :

http://www.pbase.com/image/30071898

http://www.pbase.com/image/30071901

http://www.pbase.com/image/30071904

hth!

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
OldSkoOL said:
Heres a link to some galleries that were shot with my MTB curve range

http://www.pbase.com/oldskoo1/images_by_project

In particulary, this gallery http://www.pbase.com/oldskoo1/ad23 is
mainly landscape shots with the MTB curve
Click to expand...
Hey! You have a lot of great pictures hidden away there! I think I've seen mostly your curve test shots, but these are nice!! Both the galleries are good, and the landscapes in the first one are very appealing!
OldSkoOL said:
Some other examples

Here is an example of how i metered for the sky detail but was able
to recover the midtone detail of the building better due to the
midtone boost :

http://www.pbase.com/image/29997230
Click to expand...
Yeah. I saw this one. It's impressive how much detail you can recover, but I think it ends up looking pretty artificial like this.
OldSkoOL said:
An example of a floral shot :

http://www.pbase.com/image/29997229
Click to expand...
This looks very good!
OldSkoOL said:
Some examples of how the curve holds its highlight detail and
contrast even when using center-weighted :

http://www.pbase.com/image/30071898

http://www.pbase.com/image/30071901

http://www.pbase.com/image/30071904
Click to expand...
And these are impressive! Good action shots, but especially the way they hold the highlights in that white clothing used in cricket during a sunny day like that, and at the same time, the rest of the picture is nice and light/bright.
OldSkoOL said:
hth!
Click to expand...
It sure does.

One more question: Could you bring me up to date on your curves chronology? I've seen so many versions and types, that I'm not sure which are just evolved from other curves, and which are standalone curves with their own purpose. Do you have a list over them somewhere or something? Thanks.

Thomas.
 
Hey Thomas

Thanks for the feedback on those shots :)

I was worried about this, due to the different curves ive released. I hoped people wouldnt get confused. Here goes.

Initially is started out with a few tests i didnt release. I thought about it for a while and ended up have two curves which i named v2 series and v3 series. The version 2 series was a simple +0.17ev increase for lovers of the normal curve, it gave a slight increase in the midtones. That didnt blossom too much but my v3 series did. I called it v3 to keep it inline with the +0.3ev boost it gave. I regretably produced a v3 and v3h curve. The v3h curve was simply in response to the fact there was a lot of hype about getting more highlight detail. What i didnt want to shout about was the fact that i didnt like this as it seemed as though highlights were starting to blow because of the extra push in the highlights of the curve. This created a lack of contrast in the highlights and even though they werent actually blown it appeared they were. I prefer to stop down the highlights inline with the normal curve. Anyway, the v3h was available if people wanted it was essentially the v3 but with extra highlights. From this i created something inbetween, but a newly designed curve with different reference points but effectivly the same tonal range. The v3.1 curve was a mixture of v3 and v3h to attempt to satistfy users needs. The reference points were swapped around so i didnt artifically mark and twist the midtones tonal curve. I adjusted the curve so the reference points allowed the curve to take its own path all the way up to the highlights without any intivention. This is miminced in the MTB v1 curve too. The v3.1 was a great curve but i still loved v3 which i always will do. I was pleased with v3 it was a great all-rounder but i managed to slightly tweak it more...

Ok im confusing myself now. So i decided to do something about it. I wanted definitive curves. Therefore i spent the next few weeks working on them. I shot loads of test shots side by side between the v3 and v3.1. I read and learnt more, put it into practice and came up with a balance between v3 and v3.1. Which then became my MTB v1, the pinicle release as i like to think of it. It simply aims to add a true +0.3ev boost to the midtones, whilst keeping contrast and colour saturation. But it also mimics my love for keeping the highlights trimmed. I feel theres nothing better than keeping contrast in the highlights. It add more definition/detail to the image as you can see in the cricket action shots. If my highlights had been higher i would of lost the contrast detail in the creases in their shirts. I only trimmed down the highlights to an exceptable level. I learnt a lot about linearity and how important it is to keep it to retain good tonal range. Therefore, after lots of testing, the point at which the highlights are stopped down to in the MTB v1 curve will not effect its tonal range. I feel it gives optimal retention and detail without sacraficing contrast. Any higher and you start to see more areas of pure white and light colours that lack contrast.

The MTC curve is basically derrived from the v2 series but now instead of a +0.17ev increase its a true 0.3ev increase. Its aimed at floral shooters as the C stands for contrast but it does also lift the midtones so hopefully you'll get better detail from the midtone areas of flowers and objects. The +0.17 increase of the v2 series was too close to the normal tone which is perfect in its own right. Therefore i decided to leave it alone and go for a true +0.3ev. I felt by doing this i gave some users a clear option. One or the other. I felt theres no point in competing, i'll just put out options for the users and its up to them what they pick. I know if i was on the recieving end i'd fully welcome choice over competition for the same types of curves.

I know ive explained it badly, it was confusing throughout with the different versions. But simply, it has been a natural progression to a better curve. It reflects the leanring experience for me in each release. The more i understand about tone, the more i tweak it to give optimal performance. Overall, i hope both curves give clear options for d70 users. I never have been trying to rake in users to use my curves but simply provide an option. Its kinda like lenses. The more different ones you have the more possibilities are available.

Anyways, i'll stop rambling now.

HF!

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
Curve results according to me :)

I wrote so much i had to split it up!

From my latest tests here : http://www.pbase.com/oldskoo1/latests_tests

From the progression in curve making curves has become so good, its hard to tell the differences these days.

The curves i felt performed the best are as follows (in no particular order!). To compare please open each link in a seperate browser window. Flick between each window to see the differences.

MTC v1 : You may notice little difference between this curve and my MTB v1. But it is there. The indoor test here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301395 against the MTB v1 here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301402 shows little difference. Looking at the flash test the MTC here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301460 produced more stronger contrast in the leaves and background colour in the flash lighting. Same goes for the Scene 5 test shoot. MTC here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301531 produced heavier contrasts between shadows and midtones than the MTB here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301538

Translated, for floral shooters and object shooters, the extra contrast will bring out more emphasis in their shots along with brighter midtones (you wont see any different in midtone brighteness between the two)

The MTB and the ev3. Well these two are hardly any different. They both have exactly +0.3ev of boost to the midtones. Overall, the ev3 curve handles shadows differently from the MTB v1 curve. This is due to the calabration of gamma control in the ev3 curve. With a difference in gamma, the ev3 curve produces differences in shadow and the slight increase in gamma gives less colour pop. This can be seen in all three test scenarios. It is a small difference but noticable if comparing. In the scene 5 test, the ev3 here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301532 compared to the MTB v1 here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301538 gives differences in shadow distribution. Also take note of the bolder colour on the orange fence and the green evergreen (right side bottom) that the MTB v1 produces. Looking at the flash test shows a birghtness and colour increase in the dolls clothing and the green leaves from the MTB v1 curve here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301470 compared to the ev3 curve here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301461 the emulated skin tones of the dolls face are very similar to the provia curve. I dont know why this is happening but its helpful for shots to ensure smooth skin tone replication.

Similar differences in background colour and colour pop can be seen in the indoor test too http://www.pbase.com/oldskoo1/indoor_3

The one noticable difference in the MTB v1 and ev3 curve is the way is handles highlights. Any curve maker can see this from the drawing board. The ev3 curve is calabrated to stop higher up into the highlights than the MTB v1 curve. What this does is produce whiter whites at a first glance. If you compare these two images, the ev3 here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301396 and the MTB v1 here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301402 on purpose i put a red pot with a white lid to fool the metering and tone curve to see how it deals with highlights. Neither curve blew out here but you can see that the ev3 curve produces whiter whites on the lid. Look closely and you will see this to the left of the lid. The MTB v1 curve is stopped further down into the highlights so you will typically find that the MTB v1 curve will produce more definition in the highlights at this level. By comparing these pictures you can see more of the the ridge of the lid with the MTB v1 curve compared to the ev3 curve. I calabrated the curve in such as way as it follows my preferences. I like to see more contrast in highlights/whites than pure whites. Its simply a difference in authors tastes i guess.

Davids Midtone boost has been a consisten performer in all tests i have done. I have found it replicates blues very well and consistently exposes well. Its a rather bland curve with no contrast gains and provia type additions. Its very well calibrated to give a pure and simple ev boost to the midtones.

Continue onto part two...

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
Part 2....

The other types of curves were contrast curves. These were Komins curve, MTC v1 and the digital velvia curve. I was un-sure about the results of the digital velvia test and could do with speaking to the author about the curve so i can repeat the tests.

Aside from this, Komins curve claimed a +0.3ev boost but on test looked much more like a +0.17ev boost. Infact, in the Scene test 5, Komins certainly lived up to its name and produce a more stronger / contrasty image than the normal curve. See here, komins : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301535 and the normal curve here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301533 From this comparison you will see what appears to be a darked image, due to higher contrast which gives more colour pop. In this situation you have to ask yourself which gives a more realistic exposure, Komins : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301535 or the MTB and ev3 type, here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301538 and here http://www.pbase.com/image/30301532 For this shot i'd go with either MTB or ev3. I felt Komins curve was too close to normal here. Looking at the flash test you will see how Komins curve really does bring out the contrast as its meant too. Again it seems to produce a slightly duller image but does a good job sorting out contrast and making whiter whites. See komins flash test here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301465 against the normal curve here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301463 As with the scene 5 test, the flast test shows that the MTC v1 curve gives the same level of colour saturation and contrast as Komins but with a true +0.3ev boost. Komins here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301465 MTC here : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301460 again, as i found the MTC and MTB seem to produce/emulate provia like skin tones.

The results from the indoor test pretty much follow trend from the flash test. Komins looks more contrasty and colour saturated than the normal tone. MTC v1 looks equally as saturation and contrasty but with a true +0.3ev increase. See the images here, komins : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301399 normal : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301397 and MTC v1 : http://www.pbase.com/image/30301395

So who would use these contrast curves? Most probably floral and object shooters. If MTC v1 is too bright for you, you need to weight up the differences in Komins and normal. If your shooting flowers/still objects only for the day i'd go with Komins, nice colour reproduction and good contrast. If your going out for the day i'd take a midtone boost curve, either MTB v1 or ev3 (these are much better as general correctional exposure tone curves) and switch to normal for floral work. I wouldnt use Komins in high contrast situations such as midday sun shooting etc etc, its already sustained an incredibly high contrast level. Use it to your advantage only.

Hope these comparisons are useful!

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
THIS was what I needed! Now I am a believer! I the beginning, I could tell the curves apart, but down the road, as you all developed your curves, it seems like you all got closer to a common 'perfect' goal.

Still, there are som personal preferences that play in an make subtle differences in the curves, and I see tham clearly now when you point it out to me and explain what to look for. I also really like your objective style, more telling us what to look for and what that can do for our photos - and not which one is best. I was able to differentiate between the curves in subtle areas like the highlights between MTB v1 and ev3, I can easily see why people would like either of them, but I tend to side with you here, and go for details in the highlights - but that's just my personal preference.

I also appreciated you taking the time to explain your nomenclature of your curves, now I got them sorted :-)

From your tests, and your real life shots and Paul R. Lunquist's shots, I think the MTB v1 will get into my camera pretty fast when it arrives :-)

Again, thanks a lot for taking the time to explain. I hope this gets into your http://www.nikond70.tk site somewhere :-)

Thomas.
 
Yes i definatly need to put that comparison and these tests into my site. The response can simply be copied and pasted into my site, theres no real need to change it so im glad i typed it up.

Thanks very much for your feedback, im glad you could understand the comparisons and make judgements. Thats exactly what i would like people to do. Im trying not to be biased either way with these curves, just point out the differences. At the end of the day, at this stage and with the latest releases, all curves are tip top!

HF!

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
I hate to hassle you Oldskool but I am in need of advice.

I am also heading out on a trip but this is to some varying styles of environments.

I am going to Malaysian Borneo and will be shooting everything from floral (in sun and beneath jungle canopy), birds and monkeys (in jungle), beaches and towns direct sun/cloud...I hope sun) and objects. 99.9 % will all be outdoors.

I have tried White Wedding and I found it blew highlights to much, I tried your v3 and I liked it, and now I have been using Komin's with a great deal of success. I never tried your v1 yet. I like Komins but most of my shooting has been outdoor-object shooting (local temples, museams and palaces) and I found it was not bad at all with contrast even in harsh light (worst case PS comes to save me).

Is Komins appropriate? You mention for harsh sunlight and high contrast situations it is not best. Is your v1 a better option?

Any feedback appreciated, I know its personal taste but honestly you know what you're doing, and this curve stuff is still out of my league (I miss the simplicity of my film SLR :)

Thanks,

Joel.
OldSkoOL said:
Yup!

Sorry, yet another batch of curve tests. Im addicted!!!

The latest batch in short includes, fotogenics ev3 ww curve, plus
the digital velvia curve and my new MTB v1 and MTC v1 curves.

Curve tests can be found here :
http://www.pbase.com/oldskoo1/latests_tests

Enjoy! :)

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
Click to expand...
 
Hi there sounds like you've got a great trip lined up there.

In which case i would advise that if your going away shortly i would stick to what you know works for you. You mentioned you've used komins in high contrast situations and it did you proud. If your happy with it and it works for you, you've found your own style and taste. And for the trip its probably best to stick with what you know. But the worst thing would be going onto a great trip away with doubts in your mind about equipment and setup. If you want to make a change its best to do so when you have time to run a few test shoots and get a feel for the change in tone.

If you are activly looking to try new curves before you go i'd consider the differences between normal and komins. Weigh up the differences between the two tones and figure out which custom curve will give you a better selection to take with you. I find Komins very similar to the normal curve but with that extra contrast and colour pop. It would be interesting to see how much different it is from the medium-high tone curve preset. Maybe you could try this out. But what i would say is, i often used the MTB v1 curve with object/full frame shooting with colour space III. What colour space III gives you over colour space Ia is slightly more colour pop especially in the greens and it adds more contrast. to your images. Therefore you start to see the effects of Komins but with the +0.3ev boost of the MTB v1 curve to brighten up and bring out detail. Therefore, in this scenario you have the best of both worlds, a correctional curve if you need it with colour space 1a and a more contrasty option for object shooting. I must admit it will be confusing at first and you will need to run a few test shots to see what i mean so therefore depending on the time you have until you go away it might be worth sticking to what your confortable with.

Just a few example images to help you visualize, open each image in a seperate browser window and flick between each window to compare

Here is an image shot with my MTE v3 curve (the MTB v1 evolved from this)

http://www.pbase.com/image/29162735

Now take a look at the normal curve

http://www.pbase.com/image/29157013

See how image looks darked, less colour pop. THe picture as a whole is good but looks better with the use of a curve to correct exposure.

Now see the same MTE v3 curve with colour space III

http://www.pbase.com/image/29162735

See how using colour space III with the MTE / MTB curve will add in that contrast and extra colour pop whilst keeping the EV boost. It pretty much emulates the extra contrast that Komins gives but with the ev boost.

And to finish this off, its always a gamble to shoot already contrasty scenes with contrasty curve imho. Adding contrast takes away detail that can be extracted. E.g. on a very sunny day shooting something interesting with bright sun and shadows, the use of the medium-low contrast tone can bring out that extra detail. See here

This was shot with the normal tone curve :



This one was shot with the medium-low



You may need to re-open these in browser windows and flick between but most noticably, you see much more detail coming out of the shadows on the path with the medium low tone. You see more detail in the small tree and large tree on the right hand-side and the blue sky appears more saturated. If this was shot with Komins, those shadowed areas would be stronger.

To help you understand a bit more about tones and how they are used i have a guide on my site about tone curves.

I hope i havent confused you!!!

And i hope you have a good trip :)

hth

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
In my comparisons i gave you the wrong link to one of the images!

See correction below...
OldSkoOL said:
Just a few example images to help you visualize, open each image in
a seperate browser window and flick between each window to compare

Here is an image shot with my MTE v3 curve (the MTB v1 evolved from
this)
Click to expand...
Corrected link

http://www.pbase.com/image/29157012

***
OldSkoOL said:
Now take a look at the normal curve

http://www.pbase.com/image/29157013

See how image looks darked, less colour pop. THe picture as a whole
is good but looks better with the use of a curve to correct
exposure.

Now see the same MTE v3 curve with colour space III

http://www.pbase.com/image/29162735

See how using colour space III with the MTE / MTB curve will add in
that contrast and extra colour pop whilst keeping the EV boost. It
pretty much emulates the extra contrast that Komins gives but with
the ev boost.
Click to expand...
:)

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
What a great and helpful response! Thanks!

I really appreciate the help. Im gonna try sampling your v1 (maybe with Colour space III, I do Ia now) to Komins and see what I prefer.

I did notice greatly in the shots you displayed the value of going lower contrast. I noticed that the shadows can really get dark on the road and block out the back trees and the bench that is hidden in there. Mind you, sometimes its nice having some of the detail hidden in deep shadow....mmmmm.

One more question and I head to sleep, if I go colour space III but use both PS7 and Capture I am going to notice colour changes between the two, no?

Anyway, I'll leave it at that and do my own testing for my preference,

Once again thanks for the response, I really appreciate it!! Also for all the time you spend on getting the curves out to the D70 public on this forum!

Joel.
OldSkoOL said:
See correction below...
OldSkoOL said:
Just a few example images to help you visualize, open each image in
a seperate browser window and flick between each window to compare

Here is an image shot with my MTE v3 curve (the MTB v1 evolved from
this)
Click to expand...
Corrected link

http://www.pbase.com/image/29157012

***
OldSkoOL said:
Now take a look at the normal curve

http://www.pbase.com/image/29157013

See how image looks darked, less colour pop. THe picture as a whole
is good but looks better with the use of a curve to correct
exposure.

Now see the same MTE v3 curve with colour space III

http://www.pbase.com/image/29162735

See how using colour space III with the MTE / MTB curve will add in
that contrast and extra colour pop whilst keeping the EV boost. It
pretty much emulates the extra contrast that Komins gives but with
the ev boost.
Click to expand...
:)

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for all the terrific info.

Do you, or when would you ever use color mode II? Do you notice any color casts with mode III, especially with skin tones?
jk
OldSkoOL said:
Hi there sounds like you've got a great trip lined up there.

In which case i would advise that if your going away shortly i
would stick to what you know works for you. You mentioned you've
used komins in high contrast situations and it did you proud. If
your happy with it and it works for you, you've found your own
style and taste. And for the trip its probably best to stick with
what you know. But the worst thing would be going onto a great trip
away with doubts in your mind about equipment and setup. If you
want to make a change its best to do so when you have time to run a
few test shoots and get a feel for the change in tone.

If you are activly looking to try new curves before you go i'd
consider the differences between normal and komins. Weigh up the
differences between the two tones and figure out which custom curve
will give you a better selection to take with you. I find Komins
very similar to the normal curve but with that extra contrast and
colour pop. It would be interesting to see how much different it is
from the medium-high tone curve preset. Maybe you could try this
out. But what i would say is, i often used the MTB v1 curve with
object/full frame shooting with colour space III. What colour space
III gives you over colour space Ia is slightly more colour pop
especially in the greens and it adds more contrast. to your images.
Therefore you start to see the effects of Komins but with the
+0.3ev boost of the MTB v1 curve to brighten up and bring out
detail. Therefore, in this scenario you have the best of both
worlds, a correctional curve if you need it with colour space 1a
and a more contrasty option for object shooting. I must admit it
will be confusing at first and you will need to run a few test
shots to see what i mean so therefore depending on the time you
have until you go away it might be worth sticking to what your
confortable with.

Just a few example images to help you visualize, open each image in
a seperate browser window and flick between each window to compare

Here is an image shot with my MTE v3 curve (the MTB v1 evolved from
this)

http://www.pbase.com/image/29162735

Now take a look at the normal curve

http://www.pbase.com/image/29157013

See how image looks darked, less colour pop. THe picture as a whole
is good but looks better with the use of a curve to correct
exposure.

Now see the same MTE v3 curve with colour space III

http://www.pbase.com/image/29162735

See how using colour space III with the MTE / MTB curve will add in
that contrast and extra colour pop whilst keeping the EV boost. It
pretty much emulates the extra contrast that Komins gives but with
the ev boost.

And to finish this off, its always a gamble to shoot already
contrasty scenes with contrasty curve imho. Adding contrast takes
away detail that can be extracted. E.g. on a very sunny day
shooting something interesting with bright sun and shadows, the use
of the medium-low contrast tone can bring out that extra detail.
See here

This was shot with the normal tone curve :



This one was shot with the medium-low



You may need to re-open these in browser windows and flick between
but most noticably, you see much more detail coming out of the
shadows on the path with the medium low tone. You see more detail
in the small tree and large tree on the right hand-side and the
blue sky appears more saturated. If this was shot with Komins,
those shadowed areas would be stronger.

To help you understand a bit more about tones and how they are used
i have a guide on my site about tone curves.

I hope i havent confused you!!!

And i hope you have a good trip :)

hth

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
Click to expand...
 
THanks again for your kind words Joel.

When shooting RAW i always use the NC raw convertor which forms part of my workflow when shooting raw. I find the Adobe Camera RAW plugin to be good but too hard to accuratly calabrate. Therefore my workflow consists on this step. I will typically load my RAW shots into NC to perform a raw conversion. I will also remove sharpening in NC as im going to post process (i shoot all RAW files at medium-high it allows me to convert them to JPEG straight away for distribution/sharing/printing without processing. If i do decide to process i always remove sharpening). So after loading into NC and removing sharpening, it allows to try out the other in camera tones from the advanced raw then i simply pass it from NC to PS for further processing. Doing it throught NC first will preserve the exact colour shot.

If you choose to use ACR only you get inaccurate colour and CA / PF if you dont calabrate your ACR and its mega hard to calabrate too, i havent managed it yet.

Simply, using NC will allow you to preserve your colour space settings accuractly and then allowing you to pass the photo into PS without any compromise on colour.

hth :)

GL and HF!

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
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