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Oh no OldSkoOL not more curve tests!

Go to last post
getting increasingly subtle to see the differences between the closest curves.

I really wish to be able to have multiple curves available in camera!
Actually, about 3 would be perfect (plus the normal).

Thanks OldSkool for taking the time and trouble to do the tests and share the results - much appreciated.

--

Cheers, Paul.
 
Curve authors are getting better and better these days. Better curves equals less colour shifts, contrast differences and indadequate brightness levels. Therefore you need to look at the curves across several tests.

In the Indoor tests in this series, you will notice no difference between my MTB (MidTone Contrast) and MTC (MidTone Contrast) curves. But put these curves side by side in the scene test and you will see more definitive shadows and contrast areas.

My MTB v1 and Fotogenics ev3 are hardly indistinguishable. I think there are differences in colour though. The outdoor scene shows different colour in the orange fence and a definate difference in the blue roof and slight difference in the green fence to the left.

Something strange happened with my MTB/MTC v1 curves in the flash tests. Im not sure why but they seemed to be the only midtone boost curves that emulated some sort of provia skin tone, but they still mainted colour pop and contrast throughout all tests. I guess this means more testing, especially on life subjects but its interesting to say the least.

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
Thanks!

As an author of curves, your observations are really, really helpful - sometimes we miss a small tweak, other times we see what isn't there - thanks for this description of the current iteration.
OldSkoOL said:
Curve authors are getting better and better these days. Better
curves equals less colour shifts, contrast differences and
indadequate brightness levels. Therefore you need to look at the
curves across several tests.

In the Indoor tests in this series, you will notice no difference
between my MTB (MidTone Contrast) and MTC (MidTone Contrast)
curves. But put these curves side by side in the scene test and you
will see more definitive shadows and contrast areas.

My MTB v1 and Fotogenics ev3 are hardly indistinguishable. I think
there are differences in colour though. The outdoor scene shows
different colour in the orange fence and a definate difference in
the blue roof and slight difference in the green fence to the left.

Something strange happened with my MTB/MTC v1 curves in the flash
tests. Im not sure why but they seemed to be the only midtone boost
curves that emulated some sort of provia skin tone, but they still
mainted colour pop and contrast throughout all tests. I guess this
means more testing, especially on life subjects but its interesting
to say the least.
Click to expand...
--

Cheers, Paul.
 
Me too! But i was un-sure at how this performed. It didnt seem to be that colourful. Maybe i need to test it on some flower shots. I would be grateful if the author could email the curve as an NTC file. I did plot the points as per his posting on here. It didnt seem very contrasty or colourful. Maybe i contructed it wrongly. The other contrast curves seem to be a more attractive option atm. These are

Komins curve
My MTC v1

However, talking about velvia. I dont think any tone curve could acurately emulate velvia slide film. I would probably opt for starting with a well exposed normal shot and opting for induvidual colour saturation tweaking and hue adjustment in photoshop to achieve the velvia look.

Im pretty sure there is a photoshop action around somewhere that emulates velvia slide film.

hth!

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
Np's :)

I know how difficult it is to view a picture as a continuating tone instead of objects and colours. :)

You have to sort of look past everything. Glad i could help :)

HF!
P a u l said:
As an author of curves, your observations are really, really
helpful - sometimes we miss a small tweak, other times we see what
isn't there - thanks for this description of the current iteration.
OldSkoOL said:
Curve authors are getting better and better these days. Better
curves equals less colour shifts, contrast differences and
indadequate brightness levels. Therefore you need to look at the
curves across several tests.

In the Indoor tests in this series, you will notice no difference
between my MTB (MidTone Contrast) and MTC (MidTone Contrast)
curves. But put these curves side by side in the scene test and you
will see more definitive shadows and contrast areas.

My MTB v1 and Fotogenics ev3 are hardly indistinguishable. I think
there are differences in colour though. The outdoor scene shows
different colour in the orange fence and a definate difference in
the blue roof and slight difference in the green fence to the left.

Something strange happened with my MTB/MTC v1 curves in the flash
tests. Im not sure why but they seemed to be the only midtone boost
curves that emulated some sort of provia skin tone, but they still
mainted colour pop and contrast throughout all tests. I guess this
means more testing, especially on life subjects but its interesting
to say the least.
Click to expand...
--

Cheers, Paul.
Click to expand...
--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
...except for the more obvious ones, I find it very difficult to compare the subtle nuances between each curve by browsing back and forth. Is there any way you could create a single image containing a cropped portion of each shot for easier side-by-side comparison?

I know it would mean some additional work added to the already enormous contribution you've made to this community, but since you say you're addicted to this stuff anyhow... ;-)
Gordo
OldSkoOL said:
Yup!

Sorry, yet another batch of curve tests. Im addicted!!!

The latest batch in short includes, fotogenics ev3 ww curve, plus
the digital velvia curve and my new MTB v1 and MTC v1 curves.

Curve tests can be found here :
http://www.pbase.com/oldskoo1/latests_tests

Enjoy! :)

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
Click to expand...
 
OldSkoOL said:
Im pretty sure there is a photoshop action around somewhere that
emulates velvia slide film.
Click to expand...
Fred Miranda has one at his site: http://www.fredmiranda.com/DV/

He describes it as follows:
New DV PRO v4.0 (Digital Velvia 16-bit)

DV (Digital Velvia) is one of the most popular FM actions. Now, the new DV PRO v4.0 offers more than triple the amount of image enhancing saturation options. These 16-bit accuracy saturation steps were developed for those interested in increasing color saturation (simulating a Velvia film look) while keeping low noise and accurate colors within the channels individually.
--
Darryl J
 
Thanks for the good work! I just finished experimenting with fotogenics' ev3 and now I'm trying your mtb v1. So far I'm happy with the mtb (after one day of shooting).

Your site is extremely helpful in understanding the proper application of curves.

David
OldSkoOL said:
Yup!

Sorry, yet another batch of curve tests. Im addicted!!!

The latest batch in short includes, fotogenics ev3 ww curve, plus
the digital velvia curve and my new MTB v1 and MTC v1 curves.

Curve tests can be found here :
http://www.pbase.com/oldskoo1/latests_tests

Enjoy! :)

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
Click to expand...
--
the world is filled with color
 
Thanks for the compliments David!

Im terrible at trying to explain things in simple terms but tried my best here. I know a lot of people wish to try curves but arent quite sure.

On a side note, i dont know if its worth it but i uploaded a different version of my v1 curve today when i posted this forum post. Its exactly the same but with a minor 2 point adjustment in the midtones which i dont think will effect anything. It wasnt worth me releasing a new version and confusing folk, but i just thought id mention it as a side note. I keep swapping between two designs that effectivly do exactly the same thing, i just think the latest looks nicer in Nikon Capture. hehe!! All points are pretty much the same linearity but in different places.

Good luck in your testing and HF!

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
I did a portrait test between WW, Provia and MTCv1 on my wife using SB800/D70. I noticed that the skin tone of MTC v1 has a hint of Provia and lighter than WW 3.5. Sorry, can't show any proof as I'm limited to dial-up. From your tests, you reckon MTC v1 will be as good as WW3.5 for D70 flash photography on people? I'll be doing a pageant shoot tomorrow and have to decide which curve to use. You've done a great service to us all. Thanks! GB
OldSkoOL said:
Curve authors are getting better and better these days. Better
curves equals less colour shifts, contrast differences and
indadequate brightness levels. Therefore you need to look at the
curves across several tests.

In the Indoor tests in this series, you will notice no difference
between my MTB (MidTone Contrast) and MTC (MidTone Contrast)
curves. But put these curves side by side in the scene test and you
will see more definitive shadows and contrast areas.

My MTB v1 and Fotogenics ev3 are hardly indistinguishable. I think
there are differences in colour though. The outdoor scene shows
different colour in the orange fence and a definate difference in
the blue roof and slight difference in the green fence to the left.

Something strange happened with my MTB/MTC v1 curves in the flash
tests. Im not sure why but they seemed to be the only midtone boost
curves that emulated some sort of provia skin tone, but they still
mainted colour pop and contrast throughout all tests. I guess this
means more testing, especially on life subjects but its interesting
to say the least.

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
Click to expand...
 
Hey there

I think any curve with some positive flash compensation can achieve great flash photos. WW v35 is already +0.5ev on brightness and highlight detail so thats what makes it good for flash. If you add +0.3ev flash compensation to any other custom curve you can mimick the results quite easily.

With this MTB v1 curve, it has performed very well in flash tests with +0.3ev flash compensation. Its colour saturation is great and contrast is of a decent level for flash photog. The latest version is also showing some provia type skin tones so in theory is sounds good. I need to run some more tests which i shall do today.

If i was in your position i would go for the MTB v1 curve instead of MTC. The MTC will introduced more contrast into your pictures which isnt ideal for portraits. Its mainly aimed at floral type shots. If you do decide to use it please ensure you download it again. I put up a slightly different version yesterday (which i started this post) which may of contributed to the provia skin tones. I didnt expect the curve reshuffle to have any impact on the tone but it might have done. The curves can be downloaded here :

MTB : http://homepage.ntlworld.com/specialyst/oldskools_mtb_v1.ntc

MTC : http://homepage.ntlworld.com/specialyst/oldskools_mtc_v1.ntc

Enjoy your shoot and HF!

:)

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
Hey there Gordo

I have tried this before but didnt find it very effective. If i put pictures side by side its too easy to miss out on certain details.

I find the best way to compare things is to open up images to compare in different browser windows. Make sure the browse windows are maximized. Then click between the browser windows keeping your attention on the picture. You will soon see the differences in the curves such as brightness, contrast and colour.

hth!

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
If you ever get the time, it would be great to have your thoughts on the different curves laid out on the FAQ site, as it's much easier to see the differences after you've explained what to look for. And thanks for the explanation provided here.

Thomas.
OldSkoOL said:
Curve authors are getting better and better these days. Better
curves equals less colour shifts, contrast differences and
indadequate brightness levels. Therefore you need to look at the
curves across several tests.

In the Indoor tests in this series, you will notice no difference
between my MTB (MidTone Contrast) and MTC (MidTone Contrast)
curves. But put these curves side by side in the scene test and you
will see more definitive shadows and contrast areas.

My MTB v1 and Fotogenics ev3 are hardly indistinguishable. I think
there are differences in colour though. The outdoor scene shows
different colour in the orange fence and a definate difference in
the blue roof and slight difference in the green fence to the left.

Something strange happened with my MTB/MTC v1 curves in the flash
tests. Im not sure why but they seemed to be the only midtone boost
curves that emulated some sort of provia skin tone, but they still
mainted colour pop and contrast throughout all tests. I guess this
means more testing, especially on life subjects but its interesting
to say the least.

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
Click to expand...
 
yes i think i shall start adding my thoughts on the curve tests. Previously i didnt want to make any type of analysis because i might be biased to my own curves. But instead i could simply explain the differences.

I always want people to choose what suits them and not particulary what suits me.

:)

--
D70 Knowledge Base, curve downloads, my galleries
http://nikond70.tk
 
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