CF card experience

I am looking to pick up a new CF card (256/512 or 1G) for my *istD. I already have a Simpletech 512 with no extra speed and it works well with full size jpg files. I am planning to start using more RAW images and am trying to decide if I should get a fast card.
My research at a local store showed:
"regular" speed 4X?
12 X lexar
40 X WA lexar
Sandisk UII
Sandisk extreme

The last two have throughput indications that suggest they might be approx 60X speed.

My question is what is the best I can take advantage of with the *istD?

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http://www.pbase.com/mhjackson

mhjackson said:

I am looking to pick up a new CF card (256/512 or 1G) for my *istD.
I already have a Simpletech 512 with no extra speed and it works
well with full size jpg files. I am planning to start using
more RAW images and am trying to decide if I should get a fast card.
My research at a local store showed:
"regular" speed 4X?
12 X lexar
40 X WA lexar
Sandisk UII
Sandisk extreme

The last two have throughput indications that suggest they might be
approx 60X speed.

My question is what is the best I can take advantage of with the
*istD?

Click to expand...

Forget about throughput data; the connection (FireWire, USB, USB 2) will limit the throughput from card reader to computer to way under what the slowest card offers. That's not the issue.

What is very important is the write speed, in other words, how fast it records an image before you can take and record another shot.

In this regard I have been very happy with SanDisk and Ultra II CF cards. I carry four 512MB SanDisk Ultra II cards and an SanDisk256MB plain vanilla one. Have never run into a single problem.

I thought you were asking about whether the camera could take advantage of the card's speed. I won't respond to that, but I will respond to the comment about using a card reader.

A USB2 or Firewire connection doesn't appear to be the limiting factor in data transfer between current flash cards and a PC. For instance: I have a reader connected via USB2 to a Windows XP computer, and Sandisk Ultra II cards. A full 512 MB card is copied to my hard drive in under a minute, i.e., at about the rated 10 MB/s read speed of the card. A regular Sandisk card transfers much more slowly (actually at about its rated speed) in the same setup, demonstrating that the speed of the card, not the USB2 connection, is the limiting factor.

Zaldidun said:

Forget about throughput data; the connection (FireWire, USB, USB 2)
will limit the throughput from card reader to computer to way under
what the slowest card offers. That's not the issue.

Click to expand...

There is no way that Firewire or USB2 will be the limiting factor for a CF card's transfer of data.

Both protocols transfer data at extremely high rates, e.g. Firewire being approx 400 Mbps.

One needs to remember that Firewire is built to handle both audio and video simultaneously over a single connection. It's faster than a CF card!

USB2 is also extremely fast.

Andrew

However, one must look at the card's write speed to see how it will behave in the *istD. Faster is always better.

Andrew

I am mostly concerned with write speed to the card - is there a significant difference between PEF write times with a Sandisk Ultra II vs the regular. What about card size? Does it affect write speed? ie is a 512 card faster than a 256 etc.

mhjackson said:

I am looking to pick up a new CF card (256/512 or 1G) for my *istD.
I already have a Simpletech 512 with no extra speed and it works
well with full size jpg files. I am planning to start using
more RAW images and am trying to decide if I should get a fast card.
My research at a local store showed:
"regular" speed 4X?
12 X lexar
40 X WA lexar
Sandisk UII
Sandisk extreme

The last two have throughput indications that suggest they might be
approx 60X speed.

My question is what is the best I can take advantage of with the
*istD?

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http://www.pbase.com/mhjackson

Click to expand...

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http://www.pbase.com/mhjackson

My experience with a 40x card which does not have write acceleration is it is no faster than my old 8x card. My advice would be go for WA cards. A 40x WA card is 40x regardless of size, although you may have to pay a bigger premium for some sizes than for others.

If you read the card from the camera, USB 1 will limit read speeds. If you put in a PCMCIA adaptor, PCMCIA will limit it. The card will deliver full read speed in a Cardbus adaptor if you can find one, or in firewire or USB2 reader.

I use my 512MB 40x non-WA card in a PCMCIA slot most of the time so for me it was pointless getting it - fortunately I didn't pay too much of a premium for it. My next card will be bigger and WA. Shooting PEF files I get 40 or so to a card, so the limitation on throughput becomes how quickly I can download, not how quickly I can save. Since it takes 5-6 minutes to copy 512MB from the PCMCIA adaptor, I have to put my old 128MB card in - and that gives me 9 PEF files for those minutes.

With 5 frames in the buffer, it becomes a question of how soon after shooting frame 1 do I want to shoot frame 6 - I don't generally want to shoot in huge bursts, so I don't fill the buffer and have to wait.

mhjackson said:

mhjackson said:

I am looking to pick up a new CF card (256/512 or 1G) for my *istD.
I already have a Simpletech 512 with no extra speed and it works
well with full size jpg files. I am planning to start using
more RAW images and am trying to decide if I should get a fast card.
My research at a local store showed:
"regular" speed 4X?
12 X lexar
40 X WA lexar
Sandisk UII
Sandisk extreme

The last two have throughput indications that suggest they might be
approx 60X speed.

My question is what is the best I can take advantage of with the
*istD?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Andrew675 said:

There is no way that Firewire or USB2 will be the limiting factor
for a CF card's transfer of data.

Both protocols transfer data at extremely high rates, e.g. Firewire
being approx 400 Mbps.

One needs to remember that Firewire is built to handle both audio
and video simultaneously over a single connection. It's faster
than a CF card!

USB2 is also extremely fast.

Andrew

Click to expand...

Not the USB2 or the FireWire PCI card. The bottleneck is the card reader, as admitted by at least two card reader distributors (of the same reader, the Promaster CompactFlash Card Reader) in the sense that they admit that their readers are slower than the rated throughput of the CF card itself. Of course the bus itself is faster than both the card reader and the card itself.

How fast is the *istD at writing to a CF card.

Getting a card that is faster than what the *istD can take advantgae of is a waste of a premium paid for a super X times card.

Does anyone know what the *istD is really capable of in terms of writing speed to the card? are there any official specs anywhere?

I purchased a 256MB Lexar 40X card which has WA, a mode that the 1st-D utilizes. I also have a "standard" 256MB card by SanDisk. The WA card seems faster, but I have no way of performing any timing measurements, so the improvement is open to my interpertation. I purchased the 40X WA card on sale for $55, so it did not make sense to buy another "standard" card.
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Harv

I contacted Pentax prior to purchasing a *istD specifically regarding CF cards, and they said that WA was not supported, and so WA cards would not be any faster. The 40x compared to the normal (?) 24x should show the difference you're finding.

Rob Galbraith has this excellent table comparing the performance of different CF cards on the *istD, Sandisk seems to be the winner.

http://robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-6432

mhjackson said:

I am looking to pick up a new CF card (256/512 or 1G) for my *istD.
I already have a Simpletech 512 with no extra speed and it works
well with full size jpg files. I am planning to start using
more RAW images and am trying to decide if I should get a fast card.
My research at a local store showed:
"regular" speed 4X?
12 X lexar
40 X WA lexar
Sandisk UII
Sandisk extreme

The last two have throughput indications that suggest they might be
approx 60X speed.

My question is what is the best I can take advantage of with the
*istD?

Click to expand...

I've been happy with my 40 X WA 1 gig lexar card in the *ist

Copal1 said:

http://robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-6432

mhjackson said:

I am looking to pick up a new CF card (256/512 or 1G) for my *istD.
I already have a Simpletech 512 with no extra speed and it works
well with full size jpg files. I am planning to start using
more RAW images and am trying to decide if I should get a fast card.
My research at a local store showed:
"regular" speed 4X?
12 X lexar
40 X WA lexar
Sandisk UII
Sandisk extreme

The last two have throughput indications that suggest they might be
approx 60X speed.

My question is what is the best I can take advantage of with the
*istD?

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

HankAK said:

I contacted Pentax prior to purchasing a *istD specifically
regarding CF cards, and they said that WA was not supported, and so
WA cards would not be any faster. The 40x compared to the normal
(?) 24x should show the difference you're finding.

Click to expand...

The Specs in the owners manual I got with my ist D says that WA cards are fully supported... Hmmmm....

Ed

Qwntm said:

HankAK said:

I contacted Pentax prior to purchasing a *istD specifically
regarding CF cards, and they said that WA was not supported, and so
WA cards would not be any faster. The 40x compared to the normal
(?) 24x should show the difference you're finding.

Click to expand...

The Specs in the owners manual I got with my ist D says that WA
cards are fully supported... Hmmmm....

Ed

Click to expand...

Hmmmmm... I cannot find any mention of "WA" in any of the *istD documentation.

Can you be more precise about where in the Owner's Manual you found this information about "WA"

From what I have experienced and postings on this forum, the *istD can write to a CF card at below 24X, spending more money on a faster card, indeed finding a faster card, makes no sense unless you intened to also use it in something else that can actually use the extra speed.

The maximum writing speed of the *istD camera to the CF card is the limiting factor no matter what speed the CF card is rated at. Anything faster than that offers no benefit.

Unfortunately we don't know what that maximum design speed is because Pentax don't publish it.

HankAK said:

I contacted Pentax prior to purchasing a *istD specifically
regarding CF cards, and they said that WA was not supported, and so
WA cards would not be any faster. The 40x compared to the normal
(?) 24x should show the difference you're finding.

Click to expand...

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Harv

According to Lexar the 1st-D is WA supported. Not sure who is correct.

It would be interesting to compare a Sandisk Ultra II with a Lexar 40x WA card.

I get pretty consistent 6 second RAW file save times using a 512M Sandisk Ultra II.

Harvey Mandell said:

HankAK said:

I contacted Pentax prior to purchasing a *istD specifically
regarding CF cards, and they said that WA was not supported, and so
WA cards would not be any faster. The 40x compared to the normal
(?) 24x should show the difference you're finding.

Click to expand...

--
Harv

According to Lexar the 1st-D is WA supported. Not sure who is correct.

Click to expand...

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http://www.pbase.com/mhjackson