this is why I love my 1dII

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However I have difficulties to find out the workflow with colors. In ps, my images look great, outside ps less. I shoot at adobe RGB all the time, because I thougt this was the most wide colorrange, but when I see the samples of Phil in his review, the are all shot with sRGB.





 
PS

if you shoot with adobe rgb the pictures will only look good in a color aware app such as ps. Windows by default uses srgb and most apps such as is display pictures as srgb. an adobe file under srgb will look muddy.

if you want it to look good under srgb you can always convert them in ps to srgb

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
 
Thanx!

what if I print my shots at a fuji frontier. I save my images as jpg, does the frontier or another lab uses rgb?

Gr
Ax
PS

if you shoot with adobe rgb the pictures will only look good in a
color aware app such as ps. Windows by default uses srgb and most
apps such as is display pictures as srgb. an adobe file under srgb
will look muddy.

if you want it to look good under srgb you can always convert them
in ps to srgb

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
 
Yeah, the MarkII rocks (pun intended) for shooting concerts. Super-fast AF, even in club lighting - good high ISO noise patterns. Keep shooting & processing in AdobeRGB, and convert as your last step if necessary.

aRGB



SRGB



aRGB



sRGB



I usually put MY photo galleries up as aRGB when I process them, and sRGB when they get incorporated INTO a web site design. "Quickie Galleries", such as those created by BreezeBrowser appear to be saved in the profile "as shot".

Rick
However I have difficulties to find out the workflow with colors.
In ps, my images look great, outside ps less. I shoot at adobe RGB
all the time, because I thougt this was the most wide colorrange,
but when I see the samples of Phil in his review, the are all shot
with sRGB.
 
I have printed both RGB and sRGB at the Fuji and Alladen machines at the local WalMart. The sRGB files are more realistic in color. The RGB files looked slightly muddy and the reds ( any camera, not just the MK II ) were especially bad. I printed 4 files last evening at my local WalMart ( who isn't using Fuji anymore,btw, now it's an Alladen machine using Kodak paper ) and though I shot in RAW and converted as RGB, I made copies and saved as sRGB tiffs ( yes, they CAN do tiffs... though some staff claim they can't... just a matter of setting things up correctly ). The print colors couldn't be anymore true to life. Evcidently, the Alladen and Fuji machines are dedicated to sRGB. I keep RGB files for offset printing purposes.
what if I print my shots at a fuji frontier. I save my images as
jpg, does the frontier or another lab uses rgb?

Gr
Ax
PS

if you shoot with adobe rgb the pictures will only look good in a
color aware app such as ps. Windows by default uses srgb and most
apps such as is display pictures as srgb. an adobe file under srgb
will look muddy.

if you want it to look good under srgb you can always convert them
in ps to srgb

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
--



http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/melaniekipp
 
I though they had a "profile" they could provide for the Frontier (or Alladen) machines, so that you could "tweak" your colors to match the machine's output. I had asked the guy at the counter (not the photo processing department) about this at Ritz, and he was kinda clueless as to what I was talking about.

Rick
what if I print my shots at a fuji frontier. I save my images as
jpg, does the frontier or another lab uses rgb?

Gr
Ax
PS

if you shoot with adobe rgb the pictures will only look good in a
color aware app such as ps. Windows by default uses srgb and most
apps such as is display pictures as srgb. an adobe file under srgb
will look muddy.

if you want it to look good under srgb you can always convert them
in ps to srgb

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com
--



http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/melaniekipp
 
Some of the machines are profiled ( I think DryCreek Photo... on the web has then ) but my local WalMart isn't included ... I live in West Virginia... so I am not surprised.
:-)

However, just the simple conversion to sRGB worked beautifully. The files I printed were impromptu , window lit portraits. The skin colors are perfection ( gotta love the MK II's AWB! )
I though they had a "profile" they could provide for the Frontier
(or Alladen) machines, so that you could "tweak" your colors to
match the machine's output. I had asked the guy at the counter
(not the photo processing department) about this at Ritz, and he
was kinda clueless as to what I was talking about.

Rick
--



http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/melaniekipp
 
Yeah, the MarkII rocks (pun intended) for shooting concerts.
Super-fast AF, even in club lighting - good high ISO noise
patterns. Keep shooting & processing in AdobeRGB, and convert as
your last step if necessary.
Not to argue the point, but this is one area where I tend to disagree unless there is a specialized need or the desire to avoid some of the less likely issues with the Mark II such as over-exposed red channel clipping.

I tend to say: Stick with the colorspace for which you need to have output. It's much SIMPLER for the photographer during editing. And the results you actually get in print will usually be (there will be rare exceptions) virtually identical to those achieved if you had worked in the AdobeRGB colorspace and converted over to sRGB.

If you are sending to a printing service that needs the file saved in the AdobeRGB colorspace, that's a different matter. You can't get anything back by going from the subset of sRGB over to AdobeRGB.

As I usually output to Fuji Frontiers, I prefer keeping it in the sRGB colorspace from start to finish.

--

Ulysses
http://www.ulyssesphotography.com
 
The print colors
couldn't be anymore true to life. Evcidently, the Alladen and Fuji
machines are dedicated to sRGB. I keep RGB files for offset
printing purposes.
Yes, the Fuji Frontier machines actually work in their own internal colorspace, but they usually request that you send files over in the sRGB colorspace. The output is just beautiful. I find that sRGB often gets "hit" harder than it really deserves.

The colorspace used depends largely on what output you intend.

--

Ulysses
http://www.ulyssesphotography.com
 
Yep. I have read many times that even our beloved home printers "prefer" sRGB. Personally, I can't see a difference between prints from my 2200 using either. BUT, any image I shoot potentially will be used by the magazine I shoot for... so I as a matter of habit shoot/convert during RAW the files as RGB.
The print colors
couldn't be anymore true to life. Evcidently, the Alladen and Fuji
machines are dedicated to sRGB. I keep RGB files for offset
printing purposes.
Yes, the Fuji Frontier machines actually work in their own internal
colorspace, but they usually request that you send files over in
the sRGB colorspace. The output is just beautiful. I find that sRGB
often gets "hit" harder than it really deserves.

The colorspace used depends largely on what output you intend.

--

Ulysses
http://www.ulyssesphotography.com
--



http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/melaniekipp
 
Don't forget to calibrate your monitor.

The bigger aRGB color space had me convinced to use aRGB but after struggling for months to get my prints to look like my monitor I reverted back to using sRGB from start to finish, shooting, converting, PS, everything. Got custom printer profile. Was close but the final piece of the puzzle was getting a SpyderPro with Optical to calibrate my monitor, now my prints finally match what I see on my screen.

--
MOLON LABE!

Regards,
John
 
Hello,

I'm a proud owner and user of the Mark II now for 1,5 months and all I can say, I love it.

Laki
However I have difficulties to find out the workflow with colors.
In ps, my images look great, outside ps less. I shoot at adobe RGB
all the time, because I thougt this was the most wide colorrange,
but when I see the samples of Phil in his review, the are all shot
with sRGB.





 
Yeah, the MarkII rocks (pun intended) for shooting concerts.
Super-fast AF, even in club lighting - good high ISO noise
patterns. Keep shooting & processing in AdobeRGB, and convert as
your last step if necessary.
Not to argue the point, but this is one area where I tend to
disagree unless there is a specialized need or the desire to avoid
some of the less likely issues with the Mark II such as
over-exposed red channel clipping.
I don;t know what everyone ELSE is shooting, but MY MarkII exhibits much less of the "red issue" than my 10D did. This "issue" exists with film also.
I tend to say: Stick with the colorspace for which you need to have
output. It's much SIMPLER for the photographer during editing. And
the results you actually get in print will usually be (there will
be rare exceptions) virtually identical to those achieved if you
had worked in the AdobeRGB colorspace and converted over to sRGB.
I'm about 50/50 between pre-press & web. It's simply a matter of personal preference WHAT color space you choose to work in. In the end, we output to what the next step in the chain requires, either way.
If you are sending to a printing service that needs the file saved
in the AdobeRGB colorspace, that's a different matter. You can't
get anything back by going from the subset of sRGB over to AdobeRGB.
You won't get anything "back" going TO sRGB, as aRGB is a wider gamut to begin with.

My stuff either gets printed on a 2200 (in argb/Epson Profile with the printer set to ICM/no color adjustment), or sent on to the wife for inclusion web sites we're designing or printed material that goes to a printer.

Colors are "so close' with my profiled display and the straight Espon-provided profiles, that I didn't bother to use the ColorVision PrintFix calibration/profiler.
As I usually output to Fuji Frontiers, I prefer keeping it in the
sRGB colorspace from start to finish.
I'm gonna have to check that out again - as I'm shooting a Bar Mitzva next weekend, that I'm going to have to bring in for printing - it's probably cheeper than doing the entire shoot on the inkjet anyway. Most of my printed work is 1-off kind of stuff, so the 2200 suffices for the most part.

Rick
 
the other comment that you can just convert them from Adobe to sRGB doesn't tell the whole tale. there have been many recent posts on sRGB color spaces so I suggest you do some searches on this topic. You -can- convert an image from Adobe to sRGB color space, but when you do, the sRGB color spcae may not contain the exact color that the Adobe color space used so it will pick the most likely color to use and that may result in a less-than-correct final image. The 256 shades per channel are not the same.

If your image contains bright greens or other colors that are not well suited to sRGB then it is good to shoot in Adobe if you have to shoot jpg and forego RAW if your final output is going to be in color space that can handle the Adobe gamut like a modern desktop printer. But if your output is going to be a device that can't output colors as wide as the Adobe colors you may get some color shift.

Most skin tones, for instance, fall well within the sRGB gamut. Think of two sets of Crayons. In one set you have 256 shades of each of red blue green and they are all fairly close in terms of color. Not a lot of variation so you can't draw real bright colors, but since the shades are close to each other, you can draw very accurately within those shades. That's sRGB. The other box of crayons have brighter colors so when you need to draw things with bright colors, particularly green, you have more crayons in that color range so you can draw those colors, but since the 256 shades are spread over a wider range of colors, you can't fine-tune some shading as well as when you use Adobe as you can when you use sRGB. One isn't better than the other. It depends on what your subject is. And then to top it all off, the Adobe don't necessarily show up correctly on the web or even on your monitor so your preview isn't always perfect and then to add insult to injury, shooting Adobe may be a waste if your printer can't handle it.
It's really quite a mess. Luckily most people are blissfully ignorant.

In general it's always best to shoot RAW, but if you can't, then it's important (if you're picky) to know what your output device is going to be. If you are shooting for the web, just use sRGB. If your printer is an sRGB device use it. If you are doing portraits, sRGB is probably just fine unless the clothing or backdrops use colors outside sRGB. If you are shooting colors outside the sRGB gamut (bright green foliage or other non sRGB colors) and you know your printer can handle Adobe color (many printers today can do so) then it's best to shoot in Adobe.

If you have no clue what your printer can handle, there is no "safest" route in truth but if you are using a commercial printer the money is on sRGB I think and I'd stick with that until I knew better. With a modern high quaity home printer like the Epson 2200, you can shoot in either sRGB or Adobe depending on your image.

You'll notice that Rick is shooting some pretty bright colors and recommending Adobe. No suprise. He recommends "convert at the last step" if I worded it correctly but you really don't want to convert from Adobe to sRGB if you are using an 8 bit image, if you can prevent it. You have to redraw the picture using different colors and the colors may or may not match well. If you are concerning yourself with color gamuts then your goal is to shoot with the gamut you will print with.

Shooting RAW avoids all this nonsense in terms of your shooting and allows you to convert to 8 bit adobe or srgb as you choose.

The dry creek resource is great. I'll admit that all this gets confusing for me too and the best I can say is this is my understanding, however inadequate it may be.

If you are unsure of your printers gamut my suggestion is to do some simple tests by shooting a variety of pictures in sRGB and the same or similar in Adobe RGB and print them to see which your printer seems to print best.

All of this becomes somewhat moot if your monitor is not fairly well calibrated because without a reasonably well calibrated monitor your output won't look like the image you see on the screen anyway.

Color management is a total pain in the rear when you are really looking to reproduce an image accurately.
However I have difficulties to find out the workflow with colors.
In ps, my images look great, outside ps less. I shoot at adobe RGB
all the time, because I thougt this was the most wide colorrange,
but when I see the samples of Phil in his review, the are all shot
with sRGB.





--
Canon OneDeeMarque2,TenDee, 70-2hundred 2.8IS, 16-thirty5, 1hundred
-300 5.6EL, 28-70 f3.5- something, 50m f1point4, 1.4X convrtr, tc80EN3
 
I tend to say: Stick with the colorspace for which you need to have
output. It's much SIMPLER for the photographer during editing. And
the results you actually get in print will usually be (there will
be rare exceptions) virtually identical to those achieved if you
had worked in the AdobeRGB colorspace and converted over to sRGB.
i don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but great shots .

it has been my experience that if i shoot in adobeRGB, manipulate the image in photoshop -- thus giving me more "color lattitude" to play with, and then, when i'm done, convert to sRGB, i get better results in some cases.

and, since it really isn't difficult to execute a "convert to sRGB" function at the end of my processing (if selecting it from the menu slows you down, then just make it an action and press play or assign it to a function key), it seems silly not to do things that way if there's even a 1% chance i'll get a better result, which i tend to get in areas with blue-ish and red-ish shadows.

if one of your output devices is a computer display, you pretty much have to convert to sRGB so that it looks good for windows users.

this is neither here nor there, but i read that mitsubishi is coming out with a LCD monitor that uses a special LED backlight that enables it to display nearly all of the adobeRGB colorspace. pretty cool.
 
Check out this link. There is some very good advice here.

http://www.shootsmarter.com/infocenter/wc029a.htm

Danny
However I have difficulties to find out the workflow with colors.
In ps, my images look great, outside ps less. I shoot at adobe RGB
all the time, because I thougt this was the most wide colorrange,
but when I see the samples of Phil in his review, the are all shot
with sRGB.





--
Canon OneDeeMarque2,TenDee, 70-2hundred 2.8IS, 16-thirty5, 1hundred
-300 5.6EL, 28-70 f3.5- something, 50m f1point4, 1.4X convrtr,
tc80EN3
--
Danny Lee
 
Hey Santa.. (you're not the BAD SANTA that BillyBob Thornton plays, are you? I peed myself watching that flic.)
You'll notice that Rick is shooting some pretty bright colors and
recommending Adobe. No suprise. He recommends "convert at the last
step" if I worded it correctly but you really don't want to convert
from Adobe to sRGB if you are using an 8 bit image, if you can
prevent it. You have to redraw the picture using different colors
and the colors may or may not match well. If you are concerning
yourself with color gamuts then your goal is to shoot with the
gamut you will print with.
If you look at the examples I posted (which were simply converting the 8 bit jpgs from argb to srgb) you'll notice a slight "blowing out" of the reds and greens in the highlight area's of the srgb shots. aRGB just handles this stuff alot better, perhaps due to the wider variations, versus sRGB having to lump all the shades into less variation - which may be partially responsible for the claims of "red blowout" by some MarkII owners. Though shot in low light, the colors do run pretty hot, especially when boosting the DR to bring up shadows and fix under EV's. It becomes a tight-rope act to get these looking right, without blowing them out - and aRGB just handles it better than sRGB. Another reason why I shoot RAW and convert aRGB.

A note of caution though, and directly related to this practice - is that when going TO sRGB for web or photo processing, watch your highlight values, as ones that ARE close to the 255 limit in aRGB, WILL blow out when you do convert.

Since the majority of my personal stuff goes to the 2200, it stays in aRGB and works quite well. I was looking at the Fuji 6500 for my next "christmas list" (hint hint Santa ;-P ), and it obviously comes with it's own profile.
Shooting RAW avoids all this nonsense in terms of your shooting and
allows you to convert to 8 bit adobe or srgb as you choose.
The dry creek resource is great. I'll admit that all this gets
confusing for me too and the best I can say is this is my
understanding, however inadequate it may be.
If you are unsure of your printers gamut my suggestion is to do
some simple tests by shooting a variety of pictures in sRGB and the
same or similar in Adobe RGB and print them to see which your
printer seems to print best.
Printers can be a pain in the butt to get going correctly. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the profiles that Epson ships with the 2200 are so close (with Epson papers and inks) that I didn't even bother using Colorvisions Printfix to profile the printer also. But you STILL have to figure out the correct output settings for PS and the printer driver (on the PC) to get it right. I've got a sticky on my monitor to REMIND ME how much paper/ink it took to figure it out, every time I FORGOT it.
All of this becomes somewhat moot if your monitor is not fairly
well calibrated because without a reasonably well calibrated
monitor your output won't look like the image you see on the screen
anyway.
When I finally invested in a Spyder Pro, I found out my old Hitachi was ready for the junkpile, as I couldn't get the luminance up enough to pre-calibrate (and always wondered WHY I couldn't get the full greyscale to display on Phils' "test"). You ain't LIVED until you've worked on a calibrated/profiled display. I spend an hour every 2 weeks doing every monitor in the house. If you've invested in a 1 Series camera, to NOT have a profiled display is like having a P&S, as it's all hit or miss.

Anyone got a good link for profiling an Epson 3200 Scanner?
Color management is a total pain in the rear when you are really
looking to reproduce an image accurately.
I agree with you here. The subtleties can drive you out of your mind. I've taken to completely darkening my office when profiling my display and working on "color critical" projects. The crapola MarkII profile for C1 3.5 doesn't help much either.

Rick
 

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