Michael Anderson
Forum Enthusiast
Of course not -- poor people don't deserve wedding photos...
Get over yourself.
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Get over yourself.
Michael Anderson
Forum Enthusiast
Michael Anderson
Forum Enthusiast
Dave Beaman
Senior Member
This is ridiculous. People all over the world are doing services for friends and relatives that other people get paid for doing. We don't ***** at them and complain.
My son-in-law can do some mighty fine repairs on his car that would cost him much more if it took it to a pro-mechanic. Do we hear from mechanics complaining about the job he did?
I tutor high school kids in math. Do I hear from pro-tutors about what I do for little or nothing?
I would imagine that everyone here at one time or another has fixed his own meal cooking at home. Do we expect a chef to look at my Fajitas that I cooked for lunch an complain that I was taking money away form the professionals down at the local Mexican restaurant?
Sure a pro may or do better. I would hope that we can do better, but that's not the point. I can remember my teenaged son while watching his 7 year old daughter batting at T-ball comment that he could hit better than she could. Well, Duh.
I think the pictures on this thread are quite decent. The image on the brides face as she was saying her vows is wonderful. That is what counts.
Go for it Jaddie. And if you want any help feel free to ask here at dpreview. There are folks here that will give good advice and not complain that you are somehow stealing a job from them.
dave
My son-in-law can do some mighty fine repairs on his car that would cost him much more if it took it to a pro-mechanic. Do we hear from mechanics complaining about the job he did?
I tutor high school kids in math. Do I hear from pro-tutors about what I do for little or nothing?
I would imagine that everyone here at one time or another has fixed his own meal cooking at home. Do we expect a chef to look at my Fajitas that I cooked for lunch an complain that I was taking money away form the professionals down at the local Mexican restaurant?
Sure a pro may or do better. I would hope that we can do better, but that's not the point. I can remember my teenaged son while watching his 7 year old daughter batting at T-ball comment that he could hit better than she could. Well, Duh.
I think the pictures on this thread are quite decent. The image on the brides face as she was saying her vows is wonderful. That is what counts.
Go for it Jaddie. And if you want any help feel free to ask here at dpreview. There are folks here that will give good advice and not complain that you are somehow stealing a job from them.
dave
Here-here, I thought the people of this forum would provide a community of support where ideas can be shared and good constructive cristism helps beginners become better photographers. The majority of posts I see are "get out of my face" and "go back to the day job amatuer". I can't believe some of the things I read, we've all shot "fat-fingers" at some stage but with experience and the help of others we've moved on and ironed out the errors.
I'd like to see the first attempt of everyone, then we could all have a good laugh couldn't we?
Sometimes this forum gives "pro's" a bad name.
I'd like to see the first attempt of everyone, then we could all have a good laugh couldn't we?
Sometimes this forum gives "pro's" a bad name.
Andrew64673
Senior Member
Wedding photography requires a whole range of skills, and there are some truly great ones (which should intimidate newcomers). The thing is the customer may not know any better or has little or no budget, so any mug with a camera can get a wedding gig at some point in his life.
a
a
Phillip Bonfiglio
Well-known member
That's how I shot my first wedding, A friend's son was getting married and if I didn't take the photos, one of the family would have. I can tell you that I was more nervous than the bride. Once I decided that it's what I wanted to do, I went to work for a studio where I had the safety of other photographers and backup equipment. Technically I didn't learn much from the other photographers as I was a fairly advanced amateur but what I learned by watching them in the way of people skills and posing was invaluable.
Jaddie Dodd
Leading Member
Dear Friends
I appreciate your showing support. I admitted in my previous message that I didn't have any talent (and I still don't, but at least now I'm beginning to build, thanks to some of you). I'd never even visited these boards when I took those photos two years ago. I didn't know what "flat lighting" was, much less that I should avoid it. All I knew was that I wanted to avoid flash-burned faces. I have absolutely no idea how to pose people. The bride had worked part-time as a model, so she had some ideas of her own.
I certainly didn't steal the job from a professional, because a professional would have never been hired.
Thanks again for your support.
--
Sincerely,
Jaddie
I appreciate your showing support. I admitted in my previous message that I didn't have any talent (and I still don't, but at least now I'm beginning to build, thanks to some of you). I'd never even visited these boards when I took those photos two years ago. I didn't know what "flat lighting" was, much less that I should avoid it. All I knew was that I wanted to avoid flash-burned faces. I have absolutely no idea how to pose people. The bride had worked part-time as a model, so she had some ideas of her own.
I certainly didn't steal the job from a professional, because a professional would have never been hired.
Thanks again for your support.
--
Sincerely,
Jaddie
You are 100% right. People do have different priorities. Some people here seem to believe that the only thing that is important about a wedding is the photo album. I wonder if there is a forum of professional wedding singers where singers wail about couples who are accepting singers who would not be accepted at La Scala.
I´m quite astounded to see the sums Americans seem to be willing to spend on weddings anyway.
I´m quite astounded to see the sums Americans seem to be willing to spend on weddings anyway.
M
Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
It's interesting how a topic can quickly veer into unintended directions.
It's also interesting that most of those who agreed with my points seem to have a least SOME experience, amateur or professional, shooting weddings, while many of those who have been against - almost hostile in some cases -- have, admittedly, NO experience with the type of photography in question.
Maybe wedding photography really does look easier than it really is?
M
It's also interesting that most of those who agreed with my points seem to have a least SOME experience, amateur or professional, shooting weddings, while many of those who have been against - almost hostile in some cases -- have, admittedly, NO experience with the type of photography in question.
Maybe wedding photography really does look easier than it really is?
M
M
Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
Michael long,
Your post captured EXACTLY what I was originally referring to. Thank you.
Yes, everyone has to start "somewhere". Choosing the best "somewhere" possible, however, is very, very important. The stage in one's career where they might be asking what camera to buy ISN'T the best "somewhere" to be when you're shooting your first wedding!
Again, there are some situations where there really, really might not be an alternative, like when the couple cannot afford a photographer and you're the ONLY one (did that poster REALLY believe that any of us suggested poor couples don't deserve photography... I don't think so! I think he was just upset and didn't mind making public a very false assumption!), but obviously, these matters don't apply in those cases.
It's when the choice is APPLICABLE that caution and prudence should be observed. And once more, it should indeed be observed if the couple has a choice of hiring you or hiring someone else, and you're the one asking what an f-stop is.
This is not an argument about pro v amateur. It's merely a caution about prudence and awareness!
M
Your post captured EXACTLY what I was originally referring to. Thank you.
Yes, everyone has to start "somewhere". Choosing the best "somewhere" possible, however, is very, very important. The stage in one's career where they might be asking what camera to buy ISN'T the best "somewhere" to be when you're shooting your first wedding!
Again, there are some situations where there really, really might not be an alternative, like when the couple cannot afford a photographer and you're the ONLY one (did that poster REALLY believe that any of us suggested poor couples don't deserve photography... I don't think so! I think he was just upset and didn't mind making public a very false assumption!), but obviously, these matters don't apply in those cases.
It's when the choice is APPLICABLE that caution and prudence should be observed. And once more, it should indeed be observed if the couple has a choice of hiring you or hiring someone else, and you're the one asking what an f-stop is.
This is not an argument about pro v amateur. It's merely a caution about prudence and awareness!
M
Joel41093
Senior Member
...Because I love interacting with people, love it when I can make them happy with something I created. I believe I can bring joy to famillies trough my photos. This is something that interest me, alot more so than my current day job and that is why right now, I'm moving in that direction.
But, as you said, no one should enter this business lightly, no, it's not brain surgery, but it's a one in a lifetime moment for these people and you don't get a second chance.
That's why, this year, I'm buildng (physically building it) my studio, getting the gear that I'm missing (still need to get the 24-70 2.8, 16-35 2.8 and 85 1.2 lenses), I already have lenses that will be relegated as backup lenses (except my 70-200 2.8 IS that will used alot at weddings). Getting more cards, backup flash, a new body so my D60 will get backup duty, the MKII primary etc.
Also, I asked some pro photographer if I could tag along this year to learn. So, I'll be assisting and be second shooter at 2 weddings for now this year and I'm trying to book more.
I'm also photographing different events, sports and portraits. This helps my people skills. It also helps me be a quick shooter and anticipate the "moment".
I plan to shoot my first wedding as the main photographer next year. I'll bring along someone with me to help troughout the day. I think that all that I've been doing for a while as practice will help me to deliver a good product. And as with everything, experience will help me refine my product.
--
Joel
http://www.pbase.com/joels
'A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.'
But, as you said, no one should enter this business lightly, no, it's not brain surgery, but it's a one in a lifetime moment for these people and you don't get a second chance.
That's why, this year, I'm buildng (physically building it) my studio, getting the gear that I'm missing (still need to get the 24-70 2.8, 16-35 2.8 and 85 1.2 lenses), I already have lenses that will be relegated as backup lenses (except my 70-200 2.8 IS that will used alot at weddings). Getting more cards, backup flash, a new body so my D60 will get backup duty, the MKII primary etc.
Also, I asked some pro photographer if I could tag along this year to learn. So, I'll be assisting and be second shooter at 2 weddings for now this year and I'm trying to book more.
I'm also photographing different events, sports and portraits. This helps my people skills. It also helps me be a quick shooter and anticipate the "moment".
I plan to shoot my first wedding as the main photographer next year. I'll bring along someone with me to help troughout the day. I think that all that I've been doing for a while as practice will help me to deliver a good product. And as with everything, experience will help me refine my product.
--
Joel
http://www.pbase.com/joels
'A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.'
Zidar162589
Senior Member
Weddings are humanity at its worst. I'd rather shoot couches in an empty warehouse studio 20 miles out of town than shoot a wedding.
What I can't believe is how the discussion of wedding photography is dominating this forum.
James Mason
Alaska
--
'He's out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond
the pale of any acceptable human conduct.'
What I can't believe is how the discussion of wedding photography is dominating this forum.
James Mason
Alaska
--
'He's out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond
the pale of any acceptable human conduct.'
- Apocalypse Now
Wyatt Houtz
Forum Enthusiast
Here are some pictures from a friends wedding I took last summer, and I am thinking of offering a budget digital-only photography service.
http://www.havenofbliss.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?path=mandywedding&page=1&num=11
Wyatt
Wyatt Houtz
email: [email protected]
http://www.havenofbliss.com
aol: wyatthoutz
http://www.havenofbliss.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?path=mandywedding&page=1&num=11
Wyatt
--
Wyatt Houtz
email: [email protected]
http://www.havenofbliss.com
aol: wyatthoutz
Dave Beaman
Senior Member
There are a lot of Pro wedding and portrait photographers. Also many of these also are all around photographers, shooting sport teams, model portfolios, and schools which involve people.
For me I like the humanist aspect of it.
dave
For me I like the humanist aspect of it.
dave
M
Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
Wyatt,
I looked at all the photos you posted and will be happy to post my OPINION on them as it relates to your question. Please be aware that this is only my opinion, and I make no claims about my own photographic skills.
There are 11 images from this gallery.
Image #1 (Kissing)
It appears that image was shot with a very low shutter speed, resulting in motion blur. This MAY be an intentional Photoshop manipulation. If so, you might consider looking into soft-focus diffusion rather than blurring.
Image #2 (Ceremony)
Not a bad image, but be careful with the Photoshop blurring. Artificial DOF can be nice, but must be done carefully.
Image #4 (seated bride)
Again, some strange digital manipulation on her face. In addition, you have to be very, very careful about all those blown highlights, especially with a bride's dress. It can be done intentionally to good effect (high key), but it doesn't come across as intentional in this case. The place where my eye is most immediately drawn is that really hot spot in the lower center of the frame where the sunlight reflects brightly off her dress.
Image #5
This image appears VERY oversharpened. Re-sharpening after resizing for the web is desirable, but it must also be PROPORTIONATE. You wouldn't sharpen a small image to the same degree which you would sharpen one that is large.
Image #7 (Bride with flowers)
A candid moment, to be sure, but not the most flattering expression. She's a pretty bride... and it's her wedding day... keep waiting and watching for that candid smile or laughter which reflects that. Here, she looks like she thinks she might need Depends before the day is over! (Technically, we can't do anything about our subjects expressions during non-posed shots. But we CAN wait or select those which are more flattering or pleasant.)
Image #9 (Bride and groom holding hands)
The strongest image of the collection in several ways. First, it captures the spirit of the ceremony. Second, it is well-composed. I like the way the bride and groom are in profile while the minister's face is straight on. Once more, there seems to be too much digital post-processing. Not necessary in this image... just let it tell the story on its own.
Image #10 (Dancing)
Again, a strong image. But again, very over-sharpened AND not the best execution of digital DOF. A strong image can speak for itself. This one has what it needs: composition, lighting, faces, emotion.
Image #11 (Bride)
Overall, a fun candid shot that is well-captured.
I looked over your other wedding galleries at your site. Ben's wedding seemed very casual and informal. Looks like you couldn't decide between flash or ambient lighting. Doesn't hurt to get both, but go for consistency on the final presentation. Be careful about placing the backs of your subjects directly against the wall. It is extremely common, but not desirable.
Jen's wedding comes across better. Lot's of on-camera flash, which I'm not fond of, but you open a whole can of worms getting the light off of the lens axis. The flash seems better executed though, particularly at the respection. However, many of the reception shots are taken from exactly the same point of view. Consider the first photo on the fourth row... two young men. They are shot from the same distance as the group in the following image. As a result, there's LOTS of wasted space around them. A closeup of their faces might have been far more effective.
Posed shots could be much better, though. Shoulders flat to the camera and subjects in a row looks like a police lineup. In fact, I'd say that posing is perhaps where an inexperienced photographer will be the most obvious. Mistakes can happen, flashes can fail, shutters can drag, white balance can be off.. but a bad pose is a bad pose, period.
Before offering your services for HIRE, I'd consider, if I were you, working alongside an experienced shooter and learning from him a bit. You seem to have a command of the camera, but that's only a small part of the job. Learn what you can about composition, posing, and lighting.
In addition, shooting a friend's wedding because they wouldn't have a photographer otherwise, and soliciting work for HIRE are two very different beasts. Fail to deliver for the former, and it's a shame. Fail on the latter, and it's a lawsuit. Don't work for hire until you have proper backup equipment, not matter what you intend to charge. If you don't have the gear, you can't provide the image... at ANY price.
Best of luck
Michael
http://www.michaelphoto.net
I looked at all the photos you posted and will be happy to post my OPINION on them as it relates to your question. Please be aware that this is only my opinion, and I make no claims about my own photographic skills.
There are 11 images from this gallery.
Image #1 (Kissing)
It appears that image was shot with a very low shutter speed, resulting in motion blur. This MAY be an intentional Photoshop manipulation. If so, you might consider looking into soft-focus diffusion rather than blurring.
Image #2 (Ceremony)
Not a bad image, but be careful with the Photoshop blurring. Artificial DOF can be nice, but must be done carefully.
Image #4 (seated bride)
Again, some strange digital manipulation on her face. In addition, you have to be very, very careful about all those blown highlights, especially with a bride's dress. It can be done intentionally to good effect (high key), but it doesn't come across as intentional in this case. The place where my eye is most immediately drawn is that really hot spot in the lower center of the frame where the sunlight reflects brightly off her dress.
Image #5
This image appears VERY oversharpened. Re-sharpening after resizing for the web is desirable, but it must also be PROPORTIONATE. You wouldn't sharpen a small image to the same degree which you would sharpen one that is large.
Image #7 (Bride with flowers)
A candid moment, to be sure, but not the most flattering expression. She's a pretty bride... and it's her wedding day... keep waiting and watching for that candid smile or laughter which reflects that. Here, she looks like she thinks she might need Depends before the day is over! (Technically, we can't do anything about our subjects expressions during non-posed shots. But we CAN wait or select those which are more flattering or pleasant.)
Image #9 (Bride and groom holding hands)
The strongest image of the collection in several ways. First, it captures the spirit of the ceremony. Second, it is well-composed. I like the way the bride and groom are in profile while the minister's face is straight on. Once more, there seems to be too much digital post-processing. Not necessary in this image... just let it tell the story on its own.
Image #10 (Dancing)
Again, a strong image. But again, very over-sharpened AND not the best execution of digital DOF. A strong image can speak for itself. This one has what it needs: composition, lighting, faces, emotion.
Image #11 (Bride)
Overall, a fun candid shot that is well-captured.
I looked over your other wedding galleries at your site. Ben's wedding seemed very casual and informal. Looks like you couldn't decide between flash or ambient lighting. Doesn't hurt to get both, but go for consistency on the final presentation. Be careful about placing the backs of your subjects directly against the wall. It is extremely common, but not desirable.
Jen's wedding comes across better. Lot's of on-camera flash, which I'm not fond of, but you open a whole can of worms getting the light off of the lens axis. The flash seems better executed though, particularly at the respection. However, many of the reception shots are taken from exactly the same point of view. Consider the first photo on the fourth row... two young men. They are shot from the same distance as the group in the following image. As a result, there's LOTS of wasted space around them. A closeup of their faces might have been far more effective.
Posed shots could be much better, though. Shoulders flat to the camera and subjects in a row looks like a police lineup. In fact, I'd say that posing is perhaps where an inexperienced photographer will be the most obvious. Mistakes can happen, flashes can fail, shutters can drag, white balance can be off.. but a bad pose is a bad pose, period.
Before offering your services for HIRE, I'd consider, if I were you, working alongside an experienced shooter and learning from him a bit. You seem to have a command of the camera, but that's only a small part of the job. Learn what you can about composition, posing, and lighting.
In addition, shooting a friend's wedding because they wouldn't have a photographer otherwise, and soliciting work for HIRE are two very different beasts. Fail to deliver for the former, and it's a shame. Fail on the latter, and it's a lawsuit. Don't work for hire until you have proper backup equipment, not matter what you intend to charge. If you don't have the gear, you can't provide the image... at ANY price.
Best of luck
Michael
http://www.michaelphoto.net
Zippy DooDah
Senior Member
sunflowerflyer
Leading Member
no text
Ben Lovejoy
Senior Member
--
Photo section: http://www.benlovejoy.com/photography/
Photo gallery: http://www.benlovejoy.com/photography/photos/
Photo section: http://www.benlovejoy.com/photography/
Photo gallery: http://www.benlovejoy.com/photography/photos/
Mike Mu
Well-known member
This is just MHO, and you asked so I'll answer honestly.
No.
Definitely not if you were the main photographer of the event. I think Michael provided you with a lot of good feedback, you should thank him for that.
Although your prints may have come out ok, your web presentation of the images is too compressed, shows too many artifacts and is difficult to see. Perhaps an account at Pbase is in order?
I see that you did some photo manipulation with the filters for some of them. I think this also needs some more work if its to be one of the main shots you present to the bride and groom.
You still need to do some more work and get some more experience, maybe some better equipment based on the photos you've provided.
Keep shooting! We all had to start somewhere. But I don't think you're ready to take on the event yourself.
Best,
Mike
No.
Definitely not if you were the main photographer of the event. I think Michael provided you with a lot of good feedback, you should thank him for that.
Although your prints may have come out ok, your web presentation of the images is too compressed, shows too many artifacts and is difficult to see. Perhaps an account at Pbase is in order?
I see that you did some photo manipulation with the filters for some of them. I think this also needs some more work if its to be one of the main shots you present to the bride and groom.
You still need to do some more work and get some more experience, maybe some better equipment based on the photos you've provided.
Keep shooting! We all had to start somewhere. But I don't think you're ready to take on the event yourself.
Best,
Mike
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