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Why weddings?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michael Thomas Mitchell
  • Start date Start date
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Oleg K said:
Michael, i looked at your website and i must say - i've seen much
better stuff. So maybe you should stop shooting weddings and go
assist somebody who's better than you. And i'm not joking.
Click to expand...
Why the flame?

I thought Michael's comments and questions were measured and weren't ego driven. I also went to his web site and he creates nice sellable images. They seem appropriate for the market he's in. They're not fine art, nor are they meant to be. They are a commercial product.

BTW, I visited your web site. You do some really nice work. This only confuses me more about your comments. They seem uncalled for.

Doug
 
Just because Michael isn't as good as you doesn't mean you have to burst his bubble and be rude to him.

Let's have a look at the first wedding YOU ever shot and see how good YOU were the first time.

For a first time wedding shoot, Michael did an excellent job. He never claimed to be a pro. I have no idea why you're so worried by competition from him that you felt the need to be so rude. I assume you're just having a bad day or are rude to everyone because no one can match up to your standards. You must be a real joy to be around on a daily basis.
Oleg K said:
Oleg K wrote:
Michael, i looked at your website and i must say - i've seen much
better stuff. So maybe you should stop shooting weddings and go
assist somebody who's better than you. And i'm not joking.
Click to expand...
 
You are right, the public has no idea what really good photography is. I'm a youth sports photographer and I get calls from people begging me to do their wedding based on seeing their nephew's baseball memory mate or their friend's daughter's cheerleading picture.

I will take second weddings if I know the person and have time. My wedding clients are in their 40's and 50's and are mostly looking for an 8 x 10 of the family, a 5 x 7 of the bride and groom and a little album of 4 x 6's.

Liz
Jim Herndon said:
Good questions.

I think you are asking - why weddings? - simply because most
beginners know less about the skills to photograph weddings than
they do families, children, so on. I think just as many beginners
are doing the other avenues of photography as they are doing
weddings - weddings just get more press because it is more intense
(and most beginners realize this and ask more questions).

But also, the public falls for it because 1) many are desparate to
save money where they can and 2) the vast majority of the public
simply don't realize there are skills specifically related to
wedding photography.

Most people think if someone is a good nature (or chlidrens, or
still life, or so on) photographer, than they are a good wedding
photographer. After all, they are a good photographer. Most people
simply don't realize that weddings require a whole different skill
set (full knowledge of equipment, quickness in posing and
organizing, instant decision making, ability to capture action,
strong flash/ambient light mixing, public relations, ability to
handle pressure, the list goes on).

So, many people are willing to hire a beginner or a non-wedding
photographer if they show an inkling of ability in any area of
photography and/or they are willing to save them money. In their
minds, they are getting a good photographer AND saving dough for
the honeymoon. Why not take the risk?

Jim Herndon
Michael Thomas Mitchell said:
I have been coming to this site for four years now, and I'm always
amazed to see such green photographers willing to tackle an
important event like a wedding all by themself and without proper
skills or equipment. When questioned about the wisdom of such a
decision, the return is usually something like "They know it's my
first", or "I'm not getting paid", or "They LOVE my baby
portraitrs".

I agree that everyone has to start somewhere. I have even seen some
images from a (very) few of these first efforts that were pretty
darn good. For the most part, though, the work is, understandably,
not up to the task.

Why do weddings in particular fall victim to the enthusiastic but
misplaced judgements of hobbyists? They are one-time events which
are not easily (or desirably) re-staged. A child's portrait or a
model's headshot session can be shot a second or third time. A
wedding? Nope. It needs to be THERE the first time, and it needs to
be GOOD.

Sometimes, I'll hear "If I don't do it, they won't have ANYTHING!"
Maybe. Maybe not. It doesn't diminish the danger of being DEPENDED
on before one is ready.

I do NOT wish to discourage those who are genuinley interested in
wedding photography from pursuing that avenue. I DO want to
encourage everyone to understand that weddings are not only
difficult, but they are one-time events. I thoroughly enjoy my work
as a wedding photographer, but I learned a great deal about my
craft BEFORE I inflicted myself upon the naive couple. Thank
goodness I was not the PRIMARY photographer my first time! (I had,
however, performed music at several hundred weddings prior to my
shoot, and even then it was difficult. They never really get any
easier, I just become better at doing something difficult.)

I hope this rhetorical question -- why weddings? -- is not taken
with offense. And if anyone living in middle Georgia wants some
experience as an assistant/second shooter, I'll happily put you to
work! But please, do not your own enthusiasm keep you from
accepting the advise of lots of pros who know from experience that
weddng photography requires a thorough knowledge and experience not
only of photography, but also weddings, social skills, business
acumen, and lots of gear!

Best of luck to all!

Michael

http://www.michaelphoto.net
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Click to expand...
 
He didn't specify which Michael, but I think he was referring to me since I was the original poster. Either way, his comments were indeed rude, and it is regrettable he would chose to make such comments towards anyone.

M

http://www.michaelphoto.net
Zippy DooDah said:
Let's have a look at the first wedding YOU ever shot and see how
good YOU were the first time.

For a first time wedding shoot, Michael did an excellent job. He
never claimed to be a pro. I have no idea why you're so worried by
competition from him that you felt the need to be so rude. I
assume you're just having a bad day or are rude to everyone because
no one can match up to your standards. You must be a real joy to
be around on a daily basis.
Zippy DooDah said:
Oleg K wrote:
Michael, i looked at your website and i must say - i've seen much
better stuff. So maybe you should stop shooting weddings and go
assist somebody who's better than you. And i'm not joking.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
stephenmelvin said:
She told me that all of her friends hated the photographer they
used at their weddings, and she couldn't find a decent photographer
in her city (of roughly 1 million people).
Click to expand...
I believe she told you this. I do not believe she was telling the truth. She either waited until right before the wedding to book and this was the first open photographer she contacted, or she was not willing to pay enough to attract a better photographer.
 
i never said that he is bad or good, i just followed his logic. And also, i never said i'm any good, i actually think i'm a bad photographer. I do alot of research on photography masters and recently i published a list of good photographers (look at my previous posts). You will see that his wedding photography is SOOO average compared to the photographers on my list.

Seriously, who is he to judge? (note that i wasn't judging - i just followed his logic, and said that there are many better photographers, including wedding)
Doug MacMillan said:
Oleg K said:
Michael, i looked at your website and i must say - i've seen much
better stuff. So maybe you should stop shooting weddings and go
assist somebody who's better than you. And i'm not joking.
Click to expand...
Why the flame?

I thought Michael's comments and questions were measured and
weren't ego driven. I also went to his web site and he creates
nice sellable images. They seem appropriate for the market he's
in. They're not fine art, nor are they meant to be. They are a
commercial product.

BTW, I visited your web site. You do some really nice work. This
only confuses me more about your comments. They seem uncalled for.

Doug
Click to expand...
 
Feivel, the whole point of that post was that ISO800 (pushed by hardware amplifiers) will be visually identical to ISO100 pushed to ISO800 in software. Yes, it will be a bit different, but human eye won't be able to tell the difference. As i said - just try it.
feivel said:
Oleg K said:
Michael, i looked at your website and i must say - i've seen much
better stuff. So maybe you should stop shooting weddings and go
assist somebody who's better than you. And i'm not joking.
Click to expand...
well i really liked michaels stuff but i defer to your opinion
it is clear you are quite an expert on digital photography
see here for instance:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=8965004
feivel
Click to expand...
 
If anyone attacks my photos, I feel good! I must have hit a nerve. Michael, your stuff looks good enough to make you some cash.

Oleg is obviously threatened by something in your shots. Keep doing what your doing and forget about people like that are trying to prevent from become better than them. ;-)

Hee, hee, hee...

If someone doesn't like the stuff in my galleries....big deal. They have paid for all of my photo gear. Paying off my credit card bills for my "hobby" is all I ever wanted...I have a full time job so the photo stuff is just fun for me.

--
David

My fun galleries:
http://www.imagestation.com/member/?name=r00t&c=201

My side job:
http://www.davidsavkovic.com

'Photography is the art of not pushing the button.' - Frank Horvat
 
After looking through your site, it's obvious Oleg doesn't know squat. Your pics are great, he obviously has other issues.

Keep up the good work,

The "other" Michael
Michael Thomas Mitchell said:
M

http://www.michaelphoto.net
Zippy DooDah said:
Let's have a look at the first wedding YOU ever shot and see how
good YOU were the first time.

For a first time wedding shoot, Michael did an excellent job. He
never claimed to be a pro. I have no idea why you're so worried by
competition from him that you felt the need to be so rude. I
assume you're just having a bad day or are rude to everyone because
no one can match up to your standards. You must be a real joy to
be around on a daily basis.
Member said:
Oleg K wrote:
Michael, i looked at your website and i must say - i've seen much
better stuff. So maybe you should stop shooting weddings and go
assist somebody who's better than you. And i'm not joking.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
'The professional is behind the camera, not in the camera's model number'
 
or people will never see a difference between you both.

Don't listen to idiots Mike and don't get yourself frustrated over such stuff. Your work is great.
Michael Thomas Mitchell said:
He didn't specify which Michael, but I think he was referring to me
since I was the original poster. Either way, his comments were
indeed rude, and it is regrettable he would chose to make such
comments towards anyone.
Click to expand...
 
Doug MacMillan said:
I thought Michael's comments and questions were measured and
weren't ego driven. I also went to his web site and he creates
nice sellable images. They seem appropriate for the market he's
in. They're not fine art, nor are they meant to be. They are a
commercial product.
Click to expand...
Which is another valuable lesson for anyone with pro ambitions. Probably what most people want are standard shots that look like every other set of standard wedding shots they've ever seen.

As a pro, you have to shoot what the client wants, however boring that may be. As an amateur, you have the freedom to shoot more creatively.

Ben

--
Photo section: http://www.benlovejoy.com/photography/
Photo gallery: http://www.benlovejoy.com/photography/photos/
 
Why would i feel threatened? I'm not a wedding photographer. I just expressed my opinion on what he wrote. I realize that i'm bad and there are thousands of photographers better than me, and i rather admire their work. I just don't like when somebody average starts thinking he's a photo genius and starts telling people what to do.
David (r00t) said:
If anyone attacks my photos, I feel good! I must have hit a nerve.
Michael, your stuff looks good enough to make you some cash.

Oleg is obviously threatened by something in your shots. Keep
doing what your doing and forget about people like that are trying
to prevent from become better than them. ;-)

Hee, hee, hee...

If someone doesn't like the stuff in my galleries....big deal.
They have paid for all of my photo gear. Paying off my credit card
bills for my "hobby" is all I ever wanted...I have a full time job
so the photo stuff is just fun for me.

--
David

My fun galleries:
http://www.imagestation.com/member/?name=r00t&c=201

My side job:
http://www.davidsavkovic.com

'Photography is the art of not pushing the button.' - Frank Horvat
Click to expand...
--
---------------
http://s87486672.onlinehome.us/
 
Dear Doug, Michael, & Friends

I think Michael's photos are positively outstanding. The whole package is so complete and so professional.

I doubt that ninety percent of "professional" wedding photographers are as prepared and effective as Michael was with his work.

Here are what no talent, no backup equipment, no test shots, no forethought, being scared to death, doing it for free (just recovery of materials), never having shot a wedding before, not having attended more than about a dozen weddings in my entire life, two Excalibur SP-1500 lights, and a little PowerShot G2 did for my wife's cousin: http://www.jaddie.com/photos/john-and-leslie/ . If I hadn't taken the photos, there would have been none. Compared to no photos or photos from disposable cameras, my photos are pretty good. There are a couple of 11 x 14 prints from this wedding hanging over the mantles our relatives. I bet I am asked to do another family wedding next year, and then I will try to be at least half as prepared as Michael.

Why did I agree to shoot the wedding? Because money was an issue and I worked for free. I don't believe I stepped on any competent photographers' toes because a paid professional was not a viable option.

Again, great photos, Michael!

--
Sincerely,
Jaddie
 
Your "opinion" added no value and was simply rude and uncalled for.

I'm not sure anybody thought they were a 'photo genius' or was telling anybody what to do.

Even your subject line of "lol :)" shows what an inconsiderate boob/troll you are.
Oleg Kikin said:
Oleg Kikin wrote:
Why would i feel threatened? I'm not a wedding photographer. I just
expressed my opinion on what he wrote. I realize that i'm bad and
there are thousands of photographers better than me, and i rather
admire their work. I just don't like when somebody average starts
thinking he's a photo genius and starts telling people what to do.
Click to expand...
 
Jaddie Dodd wrote:

I could do better at your job for fee than you at what was mine. Flat lighting, fat sausage fingers all over the place, poor photoghaphic posing, flat posed females, are you kidding. Most of your group poses look like deer caught in the headlights. Why dont's you get the flowers a little higher maybe she could stick them in here ear, Ha, Ha, Ha. A understudy for a photographer could have done much, much better, and they do it mostly for free to build portfolios but at least they know the basics.These are not very good why are you showing them here and telling us what a great job for free they are not worth free?????
-

Can't wait for your bride to pull them out when a couple has a real album done by someone who knows at least the basics.

Professional photographers, studentsl and understudies are looking for weddings all the time they are not looking to take away your salary?? Good Job.
-
Let the light in! Walt
[email protected]
 
beautiful work jaddie
you've got some real talent
i bet your next one will be outstanding

feivel
 
wgc said:
--

Tell me what did you like the best the sasuage fingers all over the
place or the flat lighting. You are the photographer expert.
Click to expand...
what i like best:
the nice even tonality
the vibrant, alive colors
the composition of many of the shots
the softness of the lighting
lack of background shadows

and relatively flat lighting (us experts find that all kinds of lighting can be used at different times, matter of taste, not an absolute)

feivel
 
This is what I was thinking when I did my first wedding as an 'acting pro', the results of which are here (just uploaded as I was about to delete from hard drive):

http://lookuppictures.smugmug.com/gallery/134609/
Completely shot with a Sony F707
  • Client did not have a photographer, just family member with a camcorder.
  • I just took a photo course in college and wanted to try out what I learned.
  • The couple worked with disadvantaged kids in SD, didn't really have money; or already spent it and unwilling to take a loan out for wedding
  • I had posted on the local community bulletin board that I'd take pictures for free with my digicam.
  • They would not have been able to hire a true pro either way... they asked me like 2 weeks before their wedding!!
  • Since they couldn't hire a pro, they were happy if I just showed up
Was I ready? Knowing what I know now... not really. But they could have been a LOT worse off if I didn't. Yet, who knows? They might have found better.

Looking back, would I have done it again under the same circumstances? Absolutely.

If anybody needs assisting in the Bay area, let me know! I'm not terribly interested in being the only/main photographer at a wedding at this point in time.
 
Michael Thomas Mitchell said:
I have been coming to this site for four years now, and I'm always
amazed to see such green photographers willing to tackle an
important event like a wedding all by themself and without proper
skills or equipment. When questioned about the wisdom of such a
decision, the return is usually something like "They know it's my
first", or "I'm not getting paid", or "They LOVE my baby
portraitrs".
Click to expand...
Just curious -- How much do you charge?

And if a couple can't afford to pay four figures for a photographer, what should they do -- have no photos whatsoever?

Ah, of course not. So I take it you'd do it for free, right?
 
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