Is this for real??!!

First all, let me preface this by saying that photography is my hobby. I am a retired, and although I could probably make some money some day with this hobby, so far I have not. I have taken pictures for free for friends, and have enjoyed the opportunity to give something of myself when "I" feel led to do it.

I have also given away pictures to people who have admired them, or who have told me how much they liked them. I enjoy doing this, but I wouldn't let myself be manipulated into doing it. If that were the case, I would not be a gracious giver, and it would not make me feel good to be doing it.

Giving away your work freely by your own choice is different in my opinion than someone asking you to give it away. And asking for the original high resolution file is out of bounds in my opinion. Also, it strikes me that the story about wanting to photoshop the files into a watercolor thing is probably just a story made up to convince you to send the original files. (Read: he has to do it; you cannot). He's making it impossible for you to even donate a print, because he's pointed out that he doesn't want a print; he wants the original so he can manipulate it.

I think I'd be leary too. The way this story is manufactured, you are painted into a corner where you just have two choices: either send the original, or don't. If you believe his story, nothing else in the way of a compromise, will make him happy. Under these circumstances, I would probably decline. You may ask if there is something you can do short of sending the original, that would help him, pointing out that the originals cannot be sold at a garage sale price.

If I sound skeptical about the story, it's because I am. One day I was stopped at a red light, and was approached by a man holding a "will work for food" sign. I told him to come down to and see me that afternoon, and I would see if I had a job that would work for him. He told me I "don't understand the program". He further admitted that he didn't want to work for me; he just wanted me to throw a few dollars his way.

Is everyone a scam artist like the person with the sign? Certainly not! Is the guy who sent the email trying to scam you? I don't have any way to judge. But nonetheless, I would be reluctant to just email my work to a stranger like this without knowing any more than you do.

That's my honest opinion. I may get flamed for it, but if so, fine. If I am making a wrong judgement, it certainly won't be the first time, or the last time.

Good luck, Eric, with whatever you finally do.

Tim
--
Pbase homepage at http://www.pbase.com/tim32225/root

photodood said:

It is appearent to me that the problem is a bad attidude. Eric is
obviously angered by others inability to (foresee) that he has 2
jobs and is starving.

Click to expand...

So you are saying Eric has a bad attitude and is angered (?) by people's inability to see he has two jobs and is "starving"?? I'm glad you clarified you aren't berating him, because these comments would have struck me as pretty insulting.

photodood said:

One with a more positive attidude might recognize that

Click to expand...

Oh, he doesn't have a positive attitude? Again, you aren't berating him or anything, LOL.
the

photodood said:

potential customer (these are key words for an aspired
professional Eric) has expressed interest . This is the A-#1
factor in ANY sale. Yes, it's a fact...someone actually has to
want something before they will buy it....

Click to expand...

I have been doing serious photography for several years and have been been paid by some and similarly flattered as Eric to be asked to do free work by others. I used to comply with doing occassional free work, but I can tell you what many other experienced photographers on these forums and elsewhere have also said - if you give your work away, sadly, people assume it has no value.

Put another way they think "Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free".

The rest of your post has deteriorated into such drivel that I won't bother responding to it. I am laughing too hard.
--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx

Dear Whitney Houston,

I heard you singing on the radio the other day, I don't have much money so could you send me a CD.

lisafx said:

photodood said:

It is appearent to me that the problem is a bad attidude. Eric is
obviously angered by others inability to (foresee) that he has 2
jobs and is starving.

Click to expand...

So you are saying Eric has a bad attitude and is angered (?) by
people's inability to see he has two jobs and is "starving"?? I'm
glad you clarified you aren't berating him, because these comments
would have struck me as pretty insulting.

Click to expand...

Do your homework, I simply paraphrased his earlier comment.

lisafx said:

lisafx said:

One with a more positive attidude might recognize that

Click to expand...

Oh, he doesn't have a positive attitude? Again, you aren't
berating him or anything, LOL.
the

Click to expand...

Ignored. Do you always comment on partial-sentences? Some would consider that taking something 'out-of-context'

Or perhaps, as a 'serious photographer' as you note below, you place no value on potential customers. That is a shame.

lisafx said:

lisafx said:

potential customer (these are key words for an aspired
professional Eric) has expressed interest . This is the A-#1
factor in ANY sale. Yes, it's a fact...someone actually has to
want something before they will buy it....

Click to expand...

I have been doing serious photography for several years and have
been been paid by some and similarly flattered as Eric to be asked
to do free work by others. I used to comply with doing occassional
free work, but I can tell you what many other experienced
photographers on these forums and elsewhere have also said - if you
give your work away, sadly, people assume it has no value.

Put another way they think "Why buy the cow if you can get the milk
for free".

Click to expand...

If you are a paid photographer, and the person asks for something free, yes, that is called being rude. No, when I bought my camera, I didn't call Adobe and ask for a copy of PS for free. I understand the concept of product/value.

Eric however is not currently a professional. And yes, coming here, whining because he wasn't offered money and then going on to berate (word of the day) his potential customer, rather then COMMUNICATING with the individual in a mature manner directly gives me the opinion that he has a bad attitude.

lisafx said:

The rest of your post has deteriorated into such drivel that I
won't bother responding to it. I am laughing too hard.

Click to expand...

Laugh away.

lisafx said:

--
LisaFX
http://www.pbase.com/lisafx

Click to expand...

--
http://www.dphoto.us/forumphotos/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/511

Hi B,

I just had to chime in about the weddings. I as well as a few freinds of mine are wedding photographers be it digital (me now) or film. You will be hard pressed to find a photographer that will give you negs or files. We sell them to the client for a few hundred dollars. You can try to make a deal up front if you tell the photog first. We usually make more money on additional prints after the agreed package. I have never had anyone not go over the alloted package. I do have to admit that my prices are more reasonable than others. That is just the way that it works.

You cannot compare it to writing software! The software is the end product and is fully expected. Wedding prints are the end product for the customer.

BTW: I do give files and or negs to the customer after 2 years. I dont care at that point, nor do they.

Thanks
Glenn

bdinnerv said:

Correct me if i am wrong here, but when you say "When i shoot a
wedding for someone" - i take it that you are being remunerated for
taking the photos of the wedding?

If i was paying someone to take photos of my wedding, i would
damned well hope that i got all the originals, otherwise i wouldnt
be hiring them to take the photos. It is like when someone asks me
to write some software for them (as opposed to asking me for a
product) - if they have asked for software, i base the quote on the
fact that they get the source code at the end of the project, and
own the entire lot, they get all the code, with all the changes
that have been made along the way, any redundant code that may have
been brefily used etc, and are free to go and modify the code from
there - but they pay a premium for this benifit, i charge a lot
more for software as opposed to products (product being an end
running solution that is delivered and all further maintenance
coming back to me).

A good example of this is the sports illustrated article on rob
galbraith's site, where it mentions that the photographers are
required to send in all images to SI, alot of them dont even bother
looking at the images first, they just burn and mail - SI is paying
them to take photos, and SI owns the intellectual property
contained in the photos - not the photographer - this is usually
the kind of arrangement used in weddings is it not?

Cheers,

Ben
--
Its not the speed that kills, its the sudden stop at the end.

Click to expand...

I looked at your images and-WOW. You are at least as good as a pro, it is marketing that you need. My push came from helping a few wedding photographers by being a second shooter and realizing that I was actually noticely better than them. I am still kicking my feet but work it throwing itself at me because the word is out now. I have been freakishly into photography since I was 12 and had a darkroom. Photography was always my life. Grabbing my camera every single chance that I have. I now make more money on the weekends than I do in a week at my regular job sometimes. I will give it all up if I do not want to travel on my vacation just to take pictures alone the whole time.

You should show your work to other pros and offer to assist them. They will then give you overflow jobs and then...... You will outdo them

My dayjob is scanning and retouching and I realize that alot of photographers actually really suck, they are just salesmen and hacks

Hope this helps
Glenn

Eric Lamont said:

I'm content to be called "semi-pro" with aspirations to becoming
"pro" someday. =)

Thanks!

grablife said:

I hate to be the one to break it to you but if you have sold a
print, you are a pro by definition.

Eric Lamont said:

Eric Lamont said:

I am pro-open source, pro-freeware and I think sharing some shots
will not put you on the bankruptcy edge.

Click to expand...

So Adobe should give away copies of PS CS? They spend money
developing it, and people make money using it. Sure I am not a
"pro" but I do sell quite a few prints at craft fairs, and the like.

Eric Lamont said:

Good karma some one else called it... I just think it is so cool to
know that someone likes your work... especially when you are not a
pro...

Click to expand...

Why is it people who are not "pros" should not expect compensation
for a photo that cost them quite a bit to capture?

Click to expand...

--
http://www.PatYuen.com

Click to expand...

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont
http://www.pbase.com/ericlamont (formal portfolio for now...)

'Above all, it's hard learning to live with vivid mental images of
scenes I cared for and failed to photograph' - Sam Abell

Click to expand...

You must be kidding....right?

grablife said:

Eric Lamont said:

Perhaps I am overracting, but this email blew my mind. Here is
someone I dont know from Adam, asking me to send him my full rez
files, and flat out saying it would be out of the goodness of my
heart, not for cash.

I know a lot of my africa photos are nothing spectacular and wont
end up in N. Geo., but man..... Yeah, I'm thinking no.....

===============

Eric,

Was browsing your photos of S. Africa and like several of them very
much. I am
an avid photographer myself, but unfortuneately am confined to the
Midwest USA.
My wife and I are remodeling our bedroom in an African theme, and I
have been to
my local zoo in an attempt to get some photos to frame for the walls.
Unfortuneately the fences and background do not lend themselves to
anything
realistic. I would like to ask your permission to use several of
your photos
for this purpose, and would like to get the original files if
possible, as I am
wanting to do some photoshop work and print them at a fairly large
size.

The photoshop work I am looking to do is using a technique that
Stephen LeQuier
put together that gives a very realistic watercolor appearance.

I am sure ideally you would like to get paid for this, however budget
constraints right now don't really permit me to make much of an offer.

Please let me know if this might be possible.

Thanks

=================

Fella, if you are a dpreview user, I'm sorry but I had to share
this. Names have been omitted to protect reputations.

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont
http://www.pbase.com/ericlamont (formal portfolio for now...)

'Above all, it's hard learning to live with vivid mental images of
scenes I cared for and failed to photograph' - Sam Abell

Click to expand...

--
http://www.PatYuen.com

Click to expand...

--
http://www.shapesoflight.com

At least he/she asked. Some just steal photos off the net. No concern about ethics, the value that ought to be paid for creativity, etc. Ever hear the saying about the "starving artist" and then after the artist is dead the creative works become priceless after the artist dies a pauper...

Hi Eric,

actually I fail to see what should be wrong with that request. The person is asking you for a favor. It's up to you how you reply. I think the analogy to open source software is pretty valid. If you don't like to give the files away - don't do it.

As easy as that.

Cheers,
Sharif

Eric Lamont said:

Perhaps I am overracting, but this email blew my mind. Here is
someone I dont know from Adam, asking me to send him my full rez
files, and flat out saying it would be out of the goodness of my
heart, not for cash.

I know a lot of my africa photos are nothing spectacular and wont
end up in N. Geo., but man..... Yeah, I'm thinking no.....

===============

Eric,

Was browsing your photos of S. Africa and like several of them very
much. I am
an avid photographer myself, but unfortuneately am confined to the
Midwest USA.
My wife and I are remodeling our bedroom in an African theme, and I
have been to
my local zoo in an attempt to get some photos to frame for the walls.
Unfortuneately the fences and background do not lend themselves to
anything
realistic. I would like to ask your permission to use several of
your photos
for this purpose, and would like to get the original files if
possible, as I am
wanting to do some photoshop work and print them at a fairly large
size.

The photoshop work I am looking to do is using a technique that
Stephen LeQuier
put together that gives a very realistic watercolor appearance.

I am sure ideally you would like to get paid for this, however budget
constraints right now don't really permit me to make much of an offer.

Please let me know if this might be possible.

Thanks

=================

Fella, if you are a dpreview user, I'm sorry but I had to share
this. Names have been omitted to protect reputations.

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont
http://www.pbase.com/ericlamont (formal portfolio for now...)

'Above all, it's hard learning to live with vivid mental images of
scenes I cared for and failed to photograph' - Sam Abell

Click to expand...

--
Sharif El-Hamalawi
http://www.el-hamalawi.net
http://www.pbase.com/alfalfa

I'd recommend you to sell it to him but for a low price.

Just to give you an idea, I shoot national sport events, mostly motorsports. I often have requests from teams and drivers and if they want to get a full-res file and if it's good quality, I sell it for €40 (around $48), which is, of course, much lower than the price paid by a newspaper. Make sure you print boldly on the bill that it's for personal use, not commercial use.

If the file is not top-quality, I give it away for free.

Stephan

--
------------------------
Stephan F. - Brussels, Belgium
http://www.forseilles.net/gallery/



'Resistance is futile (if less than one Ohm.)'

bdinnerv said:

I gotta say, i am anti freeware / open source etc. I am a software
engineer, it is what pays my bills, puts food on my table, allows
me to make the initial outlay for exxy camera gear. If a customer
came into my office (for which i must pay rent) one day asking me
to write some software for free, you know where i am going to tell
them to put it.

I dont work for free, and i dont expect others to work for free.

Click to expand...

Now where the heck do people get the idea from that Open Source == gratis? Why would writing an open source product imply that you can't make any money out of it? Hell, look at all the Linux companies, Trolltech, Sun, IBM etc. I don't think that people work for for free at those companies, yet they produce Open Source software.

-JP

Eric Lamont said:

Francesco said:

Why not give it to him? Maybe instead of many, just a couple.
He will be happy, you will feel rewarded by the fact someone is
using your pictures in their own project.
Ask him to send you a print once the project is completed.

Click to expand...

But other people have paid money for reprints of some of these
photos. How is that fair to others?

Click to expand...

They obviously felt the price they paid was fair or they wouldn't have paid it. End of story

Your issue about fairness is like trying to fit employee/student/whatever performance to a bell curve. Sounds good, but doesn't really pan out.

Long live criteria based assesment. (or someting)....

Karl P

Now where have I heard that before?

Richard

Eric Lamont said:

Bahahahahahahahaha!!!©

Click to expand...

Hi!

Some of the threads here really do scare me.

The problem itself is quite simple. Is your priority business or karma? Only you can decide and whichever choice you made would be the right choice for you. So you decided to sell prints at a fair price and that by all means is a fair offer. Case closed!

What scares me is not this story itself but how it is handled by many people here. This whole "total stranger" thing tells me a lot about how you see other people. Many of you do not embrace other people but fear them as "strangers". When did you loose your faith into people? Will we ever make our world a better world with this attitude towards the people who surround us?

If you take the business approach you do not have a stranger here but a customer. If you take the humanity approach then it costs little to make a (wo)man like me and you very happy. Every a stranger could be a friend someday.

The choice is yours.

TORN

Eric Lamont said:

My thoughts are:

• first and foremost, no way. Not giving away originals.

• I'll offer to print images for him at a reasonable cost.

• If he says no, then thats the end of it.

Click to expand...

That was the first thought I had as I read your original post.

They requested the originals under the pretext of applying a fake water-colour effect, which sounds a little like it might be a come-on to me since this would not be a standard option for a print and might act as a hook. I think I'd reply saying I would be glad to create some prints for him of the image as-is and will provide a quote based on quantity and size, but offer to provide the water-colour prints for an additional handling charge to reimburse you for your time, again depending on quantity and size. Since applying effects like that is subjective, you'd probably need to provide a 100% crop, heavily watermarked image, or even a print, so I'd offer to do that up front.

What I wouldn't do is quote any prices. If they are serious and not scamming, then it would be reasonable to expect a response as to price, but if the motive lies in just ripping off your work then that will be the last you'll hear of it, unless they get creative with a scanner.

Andy

If you were a true C&H fan, you'd know that Watterson is very, very touchy about his work being put onto the internet. Basically, he does not want C&H on the 'net, does not want them in advertisements, merchandising, etc. Regardless of the legality, I think it's pretty inconsiderate, when you consider how much joy the man has brought into the lives of others, to go against his wishes.

It took years before he agreed to have C&H rerun from day 1 on the 'net, but he still (from my most recent knowledge) feels very hurt when he sees fans use C&H artwork online. To him, it's almost as bad (but not quite) as all the fake "Calvin peeing on something" stickers, which I understand cause him a lot of grief.

--
-- dyslexia

http://implausible.net/galleries.html

in a sense i also agree with photodoods' sentiments. h-res doesn't
necessarily mean the orignal file just something more printable then
what is posted for web use. but yes, if you do sell your images for
a living it would be nice to be compensated for it. on the other hand
helping others out (which i think is what this forum stands for) is also
a good thing. imagine if every person who posts on here charges for
their replies (knowlege is also a skill), how many of us will be left out
in the cold and not benefit from the knowlege that everyone on
this site offers? best wishes to this situation, but i wouldnt be that
appaled at first if someone emailed me with that request.

photodood said:

I don't think he has been berated at all.

I for instance tried to pay him and have him see the compliment in
the situation, only to be referred to a different post that he had
'already said he was flattered'...

It is appearent to me that the problem is a bad attidude. Eric is
obviously angered by others inability to (foresee) that he has 2
jobs and is starving.

One with a more positive attidude might recognize that the
potential customer (these are key words for an aspired
professional Eric) has expressed interest . This is the A-#1
factor in ANY sale. Yes, it's a fact...someone actually has to
want something before they will buy it....

But, instead of recognizing opportunity, he has chosen to come here
and guarentee that his potential customer will be insulted.

Personally, I think your larest failure here is the inability to
read between the lines.

first line----------------He has money (he is remodeling right?)

second line-----------He is interested in your work (he asked right?)

Somewhere in between these two lines is a price is he willing to
pay. When he says he 'doesn't have budget for it', how do you know
that he doesn't think you work is worth hundreds of dollars which
he doesn't care to spend right now? Doesn't mean he isn't willing
to pay an amatuer $50 for a photo.

Just because he asked to get them for free means nothing. You are
not a professional...Your website (pbase) doesn't say Click here
to purchase , why the heck wouldn't he ask? Maybe it is you that
is putting too much value in your work. Has anyone else asked to
buy anything from you?

And are you positive he even knows what your actual original is?
Do you shoot RAW? Does he know that? Does he even know what RAW
is? Chances are he just wants something higher res then whats on
the web and has no clue what exactely that is...Hi-res doesn't have
to equal original and if you ever want to be a "pro", guess what,
it's your job to explain that too him, hopefully without
offending him....your potential customer .

Sorry, but I think I got more upset about this as I wrote it. It
erks me to know end how some you people think...

Just because someday you WANT to be a pro, doesn't mean you ARE one
now. And guess what, with this attidude, i'm sorry to say it will
probably never happen...either that, or get someone else to handle
the sales/business.

my $.02

Click to expand...

Eric,

At any given time in history, no single person in the world is able to help all of those who need or desire help. Each day we all choose who we will help and who we don't. I see your decision simply as deciding that this person is not very high up on the need list to justify the possible cost to you. I'm sure that if you were offered the opportunity to give the high res file away because it would provide 50 starving children with food for the next year, you would do it. The person requesting your file just isn't needy enough to justify you breaking your policies regarding high res files.

If his story is true, your re-decorator may not feel able to pay for the file. He obviously has the money to get the file printed and framed though. Also, note that he offers nothing in exchange for the file -- no suggestion that you can browse his gallery and choose some of his files for your use, no suggestion that he will send you a print after he applies his technique, etc.

I don't think you are under any obligation to help him manipulate the file and send him a print for a reasonable (e.g. cheap) price. Save your time and energy for people and causes you feel warrant it.

You may not even be happy with the final version after his techniques are applied. Then you have a manipulated print in someone's house that you aren't even proud of.

Diane

Eric Lamont said:

Perhaps I am overracting, but this email blew my mind. Here is
someone I dont know from Adam, asking me to send him my full rez
files, and flat out saying it would be out of the goodness of my
heart, not for cash.

I know a lot of my africa photos are nothing spectacular and wont
end up in N. Geo., but man..... Yeah, I'm thinking no.....

===============

Eric,

Was browsing your photos of S. Africa and like several of them very
much. I am
an avid photographer myself, but unfortuneately am confined to the
Midwest USA.
My wife and I are remodeling our bedroom in an African theme, and I
have been to
my local zoo in an attempt to get some photos to frame for the walls.
Unfortuneately the fences and background do not lend themselves to
anything
realistic. I would like to ask your permission to use several of
your photos
for this purpose, and would like to get the original files if
possible, as I am
wanting to do some photoshop work and print them at a fairly large
size.

The photoshop work I am looking to do is using a technique that
Stephen LeQuier
put together that gives a very realistic watercolor appearance.

I am sure ideally you would like to get paid for this, however budget
constraints right now don't really permit me to make much of an offer.

Please let me know if this might be possible.

Thanks

=================

Fella, if you are a dpreview user, I'm sorry but I had to share
this. Names have been omitted to protect reputations.

--
Eric Lamont
http://www.pbase.com/elamont
http://www.pbase.com/ericlamont (formal portfolio for now...)

'Above all, it's hard learning to live with vivid mental images of
scenes I cared for and failed to photograph' - Sam Abell

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/doglover

One technique I've used for a nice pen/ink/watercolor effect is to use smart blur with different settings to get the lines and to ge the wash. This technique does not work well, as you say, on hi res images. I've always thought the smart blur tool should have more control, like maybe some sort of scaling function, to make high res processing possible.

SRP said:

I haven't done a lot of watercolor conversions, but one of the
things I have heard is that they often come out better using lower
resolution images. The pics you have online now may be large
enough for him to work with without your permission, but he did
come to you to ask for permission.

I would consider offering a lower rez image for say $50. It would
be better than him taking it from online without giving you
anything.

Please just keep in mind that you asked for opinions, and several
people have given theirs. We're on your side...just trying to
help. The photos are yours and decision is yours. Good luck!

Click to expand...

Good idea!

Chieh

--
Camera Hacker - http://www.CameraHacker.com/