Exposure & auto-mode problems with P600

New user of the P600... very disappointed, I must say. I bought this camera mostly for good pictures & point-and-shoot capability. Obviously, it has more than that, though...

Close-ups are great, I'll admit that... but that's about it. Pictures in sunlight come out dark & very boring, indoor pictures are out-of-focus & also dark, and it's impossible to get sharp indoor pictures without flash (I don't really like using flash because it makes everything very white and bright)

Perhaps these things can be fixed manually, but I am a typical consumer I guess... expected great pictures and fairly good automatic modes, which I really haven't gotten. Exposure is usually quite bad, WB is often a bit off.

Forgot to add, any of you have similar problems or suggestions?

For in-door shot with P600 and without flash, you should try using ISO200 or even ISO400 and NEVER do any zoom as the F2.8 is only on the wide angle end. Besides, set the cam to high speed mode to capture 6 pics within 2sec and it will give you more chances to get a good pic.

BTW, if you can, get more light turn on with in-door shot and even but some cheap table lamp and point the subject you are going to shoot as by the end, taking photo is just a simple science to capture light.

digi707 said:

New user of the P600... very disappointed, I must say. I bought
this camera mostly for good pictures & point-and-shoot capability.
Obviously, it has more than that, though...

Close-ups are great, I'll admit that... but that's about it.
Pictures in sunlight come out dark & very boring, indoor pictures
are out-of-focus & also dark, and it's impossible to get sharp
indoor pictures without flash (I don't really like using flash
because it makes everything very white and bright)

Perhaps these things can be fixed manually, but I am a typical
consumer I guess... expected great pictures and fairly good
automatic modes, which I really haven't gotten. Exposure is usually
quite bad, WB is often a bit off.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/newkid

Hi GX,

I have a very good question for you. Does Canon IXUS cameras faced this type of problem ? i mean blur pictures appeared when shooting in indoors without flash ?

If Canon does not face this type of problem, i may reconsider selling away my P600 & go for a IXUS 500 (S500 in America).

Please advice whether P600 is able to obtain sharp pictures when shooting a baby child in indoor without using any flash ?

Regards

gx said:

gx wrote:

For in-door shot with P600 and without flash, you should try using ISO200 or even ISO400 and NEVER do any zoom as the F2.8 is only on the wide angle end. Besides, set the cam to high speed mode to capture 6 pics within 2sec and it will give you more chances to get a good pic.

Click to expand...

gx said:

BTW, if you can, get more light turn on with in-door shot and even but some cheap table lamp and point the subject you are going to shoot as by the end, taking photo is just a simple science to capture light.

Click to expand...

I really think this is a bit of a strange question. Why ? Because every camera has problems getting sharp pictures in low light without using flash .Low shutter speeds goes hand in hand with cam shake. Basicly, the Canon will have identical problems as the P600. The Ixus has F2.8 at it's lowest in wide angle, identical to the P600. In largest tele (which is less than the Casio has) it only has F4.9 (F4.0 for the P600), so the lens is not more sensitive/faster than the one on the P600 I guess. Most likely with this Canon and its lens you will get low shutter speeds and thus unsharp pictures sooner than with the P600 in low light conditions. But you may try it, of course.

First thing is to realise that Casio did not introduce this camera to be at his best in auto mode ! At least they pretended it to be a pro cam, so they didn't put all the 'gimmicks' on just to use it in automode. Like the Z1 and the Z2, the S1 IS, the oly 700+ series, the Fuji's and many others, you will have to find your way to get the best out of it. If you wish to go for a highly sensitive lens and camera with many similar characteristics, go for the oly 5050. This one has a really fast lens (F1.8), which will give you more options in low light. And it makes smashing pictures...!

Do not be afraid to use the flash in low light for portraits with the P600. First, try the flash on 'weak', and if you prefer it you can save this as standard. This way colours will not be washed out as much. But possibly, light will not be sufficient.

Second, try using shutter speed mode with the flash. I've used 1/100 sec shutter speed (and faster) with strong flash, giving enough light without blurring anything specific of the object and without getting overexposed pictures. It works with portraits also.

Play with the flash, but look for things like dark or light coloured backgrounds of the objects ( makes a huge difference with this cam because flash light is not well spread).

In aperture mode you can crack up the Fvalues. Higher values do give you more sharp objects at various distances, but it also reduces the amount of light on the picture so you can get dark pictures with flash. Ergo, put flash on strong...it helps a bit.

If all this does not work and you still not want to use the flash, get a tripod and ask the person to sit still. I get very good pictures this way.

Alternatively, buy an external flash with a lot options to spread the light and vary the angles.

So, this definitely does mean this camera is not the best. It has it's flaws. Like the tendency to shoot too dark pictures when not used in portrait short distance shots. Oké, EV-shift on +0.3 to +.07, and it's oké. Actually, the biggest flaw of all is that you cannot save this preferred e/v shift ! That stinks. Maybe one day before the summer I will send it back just because of that. If there is a faint chance that they will fix it. But I've left that one for now, and I change my pictures digitally to correct underexposure. Mine has much more underexposure than shown in dcresource btw...

Is that all ? No, but still, I've taken more than 800 pictures within 6 weeks, and by God, a fair number of them are smashing.

I do not prefer to use higher iso levels like 200 and 400 in low light because of the noise.

lock

Kyokukei said:

I have a very good question for you. Does Canon IXUS cameras faced
this type of problem ? i mean blur pictures appeared when shooting
in indoors without flash ?

If Canon does not face this type of problem, i may reconsider
selling away my P600 & go for a IXUS 500 (S500 in America).

Please advice whether P600 is able to obtain sharp pictures when
shooting a baby child in indoor without using any flash ?

Regards

Kyokukei said:

gx wrote:

For in-door shot with P600 and without flash, you should try using ISO200 or even ISO400 and NEVER do any zoom as the F2.8 is only on the wide angle end. Besides, set the cam to high speed mode to capture 6 pics within 2sec and it will give you more chances to get a good pic.

Click to expand...

Kyokukei said:

BTW, if you can, get more light turn on with in-door shot and even but some cheap table lamp and point the subject you are going to shoot as by the end, taking photo is just a simple science to capture light.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Hi Kyokukei,

Lock detailed comment is correct, there is little or even worst performance for IXUS 500 as it's len is much smaller in size and slower for tele-end, as I always said, photo is a simple science about capturing light, a bigger and faster len will get a better pic. Another thing that Lock didn't mention is that IXUS 500 will be much much slower in auto focus and may need more then 1 sec to get a focus lock. P600 is the king in this area and this is also the main reason for me to buy P600 as I need to shoot running child too And for your case with your new born baby, I completely understand that flash is not an option for you in order to protect you baby eyes, so I summarize the suggestions for shooting the in-door without flash with P600 or you should trade for a bigger and faster len such as F1.8 Oly or even a Canon 300D DSLR with F1.4/1.8 50mm prime len :

• use tripod if you can!!! This is missing from my last post as I assume shooting in party or something moving such as a running child. However, in your case, 9 month baby should not be running fast

• use wide angle to get the F2.8, never zoom in low light, go back home an crop the pic for the part you need and P600 with 6MP should be good enought for you to do that.

• use high speed mode (i.e. 6 pics within 2 sec) to increase your chance to take a good pic as both you or the subject could be moving/sharking, also hold your breath for 2 sec and keep your hand close to your body and if you can lay your body to the wall to make yourself a human fresh tripod.

• use high ISO if you could stand for the noise or get a good software to remove the noise afterward

• try to get more light in-door, e.g. turn on all lights in your house and open all window if it is day time, and for your baby, you can put him/her near the window with sun shine or the light source to get a better pic, if you can, take your baby outside in the morning and put him/her in a green grass and shoot with your P600, you will find that the pic and resolution is really amazing with this little cam.

Hope you could get a sharp pic for your baby child.

Kyokukei said:

I have a very good question for you. Does Canon IXUS cameras faced
this type of problem ? i mean blur pictures appeared when shooting
in indoors without flash ?

If Canon does not face this type of problem, i may reconsider
selling away my P600 & go for a IXUS 500 (S500 in America).

Please advice whether P600 is able to obtain sharp pictures when
shooting a baby child in indoor without using any flash ?

Regards

Kyokukei said:

gx wrote:

For in-door shot with P600 and without flash, you should try using ISO200 or even ISO400 and NEVER do any zoom as the F2.8 is only on the wide angle end. Besides, set the cam to high speed mode to capture 6 pics within 2sec and it will give you more chances to get a good pic.

Click to expand...

Kyokukei said:

BTW, if you can, get more light turn on with in-door shot and even but some cheap table lamp and point the subject you are going to shoot as by the end, taking photo is just a simple science to capture light.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/newkid

Thanks for the replies... question:

What exactly do you mean? Will exposure be better-spread depending on where you focus?

Btw, I've noticed that even in decent light, ISO200 is terrible. I really can't use it, and also sometimes the people I'm shooting are moving so I don't know if shutter is the solution. hmm.

And I should add... I use flash BUT 1) it only hits the person and not much of the background and 2) sometimes I shoot in large places so the flash range doesn't reach.

Any possible solutions for that?

And finally, sorry to post again, but I've never really understood EV Shift. Does it just make the pic brighter? People don't really mention it as a solution when they're getting dark pictures.

digi707 wrote:
Thanks for the replies... question:

What exactly do you mean? Will exposure be better-spread depending on where you focus?

+NO. But because the light from the flash is very much directed on the subjected ( as you mention below) and not well spread because it is simply too weak to do this, a lot of light will be bounced with bright/light coloured backgrounds close to th subject. This will influence your picture greatly. The other way around, with dark background only small amounts of light will be bounced back into the lens. Before you know you will get these light coloured faces with a completely dark background (pumping up the gamma-value in software sometimes helps). That is why you have to experiment with the flash to get an idea when to use weak or strong flash.

Btw, I've noticed that even in decent light, ISO200 is terrible. I really can't use it, and also sometimes the people I'm shooting are moving so I don't know if shutter is the solution. hmm.

+ Terrible in what sense ? Noise ? Told you...

Moving subjects, depending on the what you wish to show us with that picture, are preferably photographed with a high speed shutter. From 1/60 sec. to 1/360 sec. limits the movement in the picture to 1/6 of the distance. That can be the difference between sharp and blurred ..

• And I should add... I use flash BUT 1) it only hits the person and not much of the background and 2) sometimes I shoot in large places so the flash range doesn't reach.

Any possible solutions for that?

+Yes. Buy an external one. The buitl in flash is really a laugh....but you can't say Casio did not inform you before you bought it. It's range is clearly mentioned in the folder.

> And finally, sorry to post again, but I've never really understood

digi707 said:

EV Shift. Does it just make the pic brighter? People don't really
mention it as a solution when they're getting dark pictures.

Click to expand...

+ If the cam tells you to use F4.0 at 1/200 of sec, a positive EV shift makes the light fall on the ccd slighly longer than ! 200 sec. Opposite with negative EV-shift. Try it with the histogram. If you see a lot of the histogram to the left, despite the metering of he camera, put on a + ev-shift. You will see the histogram move to the middle.

Why people do not mention it when they get dark pictures ? Frankly, it's the other way around. But it starts with the cam producing incorrecly exposed pictures. Than, people who prefer automode or only use the camera as snapshot camera, do not know what EV-shift is. So, problems persits and of course they do not mention the EV-option. Those who do know it will find a work around, and the problem with the dark pictures are gone. They will not complain about the dark pictures and you will not hear what work around is. Unless someone tells you to.

lock

Lock has answered all the questions well so I just want to reiterate that

• Buy an external flash for in-door pic, even the cheapest (e.g. US$50) external flash will be much much better then the built-in one and this is also why P600 is a pro cam and not a P&S one as for Z40 or IXUS series

digi707 said:

And finally, sorry to post again, but I've never really understood
EV Shift. Does it just make the pic brighter? People don't really
mention it as a solution when they're getting dark pictures.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/newkid

GX, did you buy one yet ? Which one ? I'm still searching for the right one...and Casio is not much of a help !

lock

gx said:

• Buy an external flash for in-door pic, even the cheapest (e.g.

US$50) external flash will be much much better then the built-in
one and this is also why P600 is a pro cam and not a P&S one as for
Z40 or IXUS series

digi707 said:

And finally, sorry to post again, but I've never really understood
EV Shift. Does it just make the pic brighter? People don't really
mention it as a solution when they're getting dark pictures.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/newkid

Click to expand...

lock2nl said:

The buitl in flash is really a laugh....

Click to expand...

Are most consumer cams like that or is the Casio flash just bad?

lock2nl said:

You will see the histogram move to the middle.

Click to expand...

Histogram is only in the EX Finder, right? Not in normal display, as far as I know?..

And about EV Shift, it just makes the picture brighter, right? Doesn't actually improve exposure otherwise, does it?

digi707 said:

digi707 said:

The buitl in flash is really a laugh....

Click to expand...

Are most consumer cams like that or is the Casio flash just bad?

Click to expand...

No, but some have a bad flash, others have a bad auto focus, are too slow, or are too noisy.

digi707 said:

digi707 said:

You will see the histogram move to the middle.

Click to expand...

Histogram is only in the EX Finder, right? Not in normal display,
as far as I know?..

Click to expand...

Correct, but if you set the color to gray, it's a good tool to me. Not just a gimmick.

digi707 said:

And about EV Shift, it just makes the picture brighter, right?
Doesn't actually improve exposure otherwise, does it?

Click to expand...

It increases or decreases the amount of light on the ccd/film, usually amounting one or two stops in steps of 1/3. This will not only influence the amount of light, but also the color tones to a certain degree.

Btw, another way to check out the effect of ev-shift is to use AE bracketing. You can make three or five pictures, with varying amounts of ev-shift. Yet another one is to use a ev-shift with a picture and save the setting to a best shot.

Sounds like you are ready for a more expensive camera. There's only compromize between this prosumer type of camera and the better digitals: if the Casio is not good enough don't go for the most expensive prosumers like the Canon pro 1 or something. Step up to the Rebel or buy the Nikon (my choise).

lock

Not yet as I always shoot at night or at noon. But you can take a look on sunpak or other popular 3rd party flash of which has better dollar value then Casio one. Be sure to take one with a large power (e.g. GN40+) and with swing head such that you can point the flash to the ceiling and bound off to get a natural looking pic.

lock said:

lock

gx said:

• Buy an external flash for in-door pic, even the cheapest (e.g.

US$50) external flash will be much much better then the built-in
one and this is also why P600 is a pro cam and not a P&S one as for
Z40 or IXUS series

digi707 said:

And finally, sorry to post again, but I've never really understood
EV Shift. Does it just make the pic brighter? People don't really
mention it as a solution when they're getting dark pictures.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/newkid

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/newkid

For me it is a great camera but,to really profit of it, you should not use it for point-and-shot in any condition.

Below several hints I am finding useful :

ISO : get stuck at ISO50 in all conditions,you will get great pictures day and night (unless of course the object is moving too fast). ISO200 shows already some noise, and ISO400 is almost not acceptable (I do not have photoshop otherwise I would try noise reduction on raw data : did somebody try?).
Focus area : use only spot where possible, this is very accurate

Indoor pictures : use manual white balance, use speed priority unless specific cases. This camera can catch a lot of light.

Overall, I was astonished by how accurate is the manual white balance (take care of choosing a really white object for calibration).

Finally, I am finding the Ex finder view and the hystogram useful in certain doubtful conditions. At the beginning I was thinking this is completely useless (, but after you play a little bit you realize it is well designed and easy to be interpreted.

One defect : you cannot save the EV shift, and for outdoor when you could shoot in automatic mode it is in general preferable to apply a 0.3 (and even 0.7) correction systematically. In this sense I agree without correction pictures appear a little bit dark.

digi707 said:

New user of the P600... very disappointed, I must say. I bought
this camera mostly for good pictures & point-and-shoot capability.
Obviously, it has more than that, though...

Close-ups are great, I'll admit that... but that's about it.
Pictures in sunlight come out dark & very boring, indoor pictures
are out-of-focus & also dark, and it's impossible to get sharp
indoor pictures without flash (I don't really like using flash
because it makes everything very white and bright)

Perhaps these things can be fixed manually, but I am a typical
consumer I guess... expected great pictures and fairly good
automatic modes, which I really haven't gotten. Exposure is usually
quite bad, WB is often a bit off.

Click to expand...

This is why I want Casio to change this. Either by implementing an improved exposure in mainly landscape pictures, or let us save the ev shift in the menu. There's a posting about it just below this one.

lock

Tomma said:

Below several hints I am finding useful :
ISO : get stuck at ISO50 in all conditions,you will get great
pictures day and night (unless of course the object is moving too
fast). ISO200 shows already some noise, and ISO400 is almost not
acceptable (I do not have photoshop otherwise I would try noise
reduction on raw data : did somebody try?).
Focus area : use only spot where possible, this is very accurate
Indoor pictures : use manual white balance, use speed priority
unless specific cases. This camera can catch a lot of light.

Overall, I was astonished by how accurate is the manual white
balance (take care of choosing a really white object for
calibration).

Finally, I am finding the Ex finder view and the hystogram useful
in certain doubtful conditions. At the beginning I was thinking
this is completely useless (, but after you play a little bit you
realize it is well designed and easy to be interpreted.

One defect : you cannot save the EV shift, and for outdoor when you
could shoot in automatic mode it is in general preferable to apply
a 0.3 (and even 0.7) correction systematically. In this sense I
agree without correction pictures appear a little bit dark.

digi707 said:

New user of the P600... very disappointed, I must say. I bought
this camera mostly for good pictures & point-and-shoot capability.
Obviously, it has more than that, though...

Close-ups are great, I'll admit that... but that's about it.
Pictures in sunlight come out dark & very boring, indoor pictures
are out-of-focus & also dark, and it's impossible to get sharp
indoor pictures without flash (I don't really like using flash
because it makes everything very white and bright)

Perhaps these things can be fixed manually, but I am a typical
consumer I guess... expected great pictures and fairly good
automatic modes, which I really haven't gotten. Exposure is usually
quite bad, WB is often a bit off.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

For the time being, I set the L/R key on EV shift, so it's easy accessible at all times.
Jaap

lock said:

lock

Tomma said:

Below several hints I am finding useful :
ISO : get stuck at ISO50 in all conditions,you will get great
pictures day and night (unless of course the object is moving too
fast). ISO200 shows already some noise, and ISO400 is almost not
acceptable (I do not have photoshop otherwise I would try noise
reduction on raw data : did somebody try?).
Focus area : use only spot where possible, this is very accurate
Indoor pictures : use manual white balance, use speed priority
unless specific cases. This camera can catch a lot of light.

Overall, I was astonished by how accurate is the manual white
balance (take care of choosing a really white object for
calibration).

Finally, I am finding the Ex finder view and the hystogram useful
in certain doubtful conditions. At the beginning I was thinking
this is completely useless (, but after you play a little bit you
realize it is well designed and easy to be interpreted.

One defect : you cannot save the EV shift, and for outdoor when you
could shoot in automatic mode it is in general preferable to apply
a 0.3 (and even 0.7) correction systematically. In this sense I
agree without correction pictures appear a little bit dark.

digi707 said:

New user of the P600... very disappointed, I must say. I bought
this camera mostly for good pictures & point-and-shoot capability.
Obviously, it has more than that, though...

Close-ups are great, I'll admit that... but that's about it.
Pictures in sunlight come out dark & very boring, indoor pictures
are out-of-focus & also dark, and it's impossible to get sharp
indoor pictures without flash (I don't really like using flash
because it makes everything very white and bright)

Perhaps these things can be fixed manually, but I am a typical
consumer I guess... expected great pictures and fairly good
automatic modes, which I really haven't gotten. Exposure is usually
quite bad, WB is often a bit off.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I know Jaap, but I would prefer an improvement in the software giving a more accurate exposure in the first place. I think this is possible.

lock

Jaap.v.B. said:

lock said:

lock

Tomma said:

Below several hints I am finding useful :
ISO : get stuck at ISO50 in all conditions,you will get great
pictures day and night (unless of course the object is moving too
fast). ISO200 shows already some noise, and ISO400 is almost not
acceptable (I do not have photoshop otherwise I would try noise
reduction on raw data : did somebody try?).
Focus area : use only spot where possible, this is very accurate
Indoor pictures : use manual white balance, use speed priority
unless specific cases. This camera can catch a lot of light.

Overall, I was astonished by how accurate is the manual white
balance (take care of choosing a really white object for
calibration).

Finally, I am finding the Ex finder view and the hystogram useful
in certain doubtful conditions. At the beginning I was thinking
this is completely useless (, but after you play a little bit you
realize it is well designed and easy to be interpreted.

One defect : you cannot save the EV shift, and for outdoor when you
could shoot in automatic mode it is in general preferable to apply
a 0.3 (and even 0.7) correction systematically. In this sense I
agree without correction pictures appear a little bit dark.

digi707 said:

New user of the P600... very disappointed, I must say. I bought
this camera mostly for good pictures & point-and-shoot capability.
Obviously, it has more than that, though...

Close-ups are great, I'll admit that... but that's about it.
Pictures in sunlight come out dark & very boring, indoor pictures
are out-of-focus & also dark, and it's impossible to get sharp
indoor pictures without flash (I don't really like using flash
because it makes everything very white and bright)

Perhaps these things can be fixed manually, but I am a typical
consumer I guess... expected great pictures and fairly good
automatic modes, which I really haven't gotten. Exposure is usually
quite bad, WB is often a bit off.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...