C1 LE New version DOWNGRADE??



I've notice this in quite a lot of recent images. See those stripes on alternate lines? Versions 1.2, 1.3 and 1.3.1 all do it. Photoshop CS doesn't.

I've sharpened this a little to make it more apparent and obviously I've enlarged the pixels.

This looks like an interpolation bug to me. When we were developing the colour science at my last company we had an error like this at some point.

p.s. I wont be upgrading to a product that drops the 16bit support.
 
I'm slow today...just reading through this now. There has to be a
typo or something. There's no way they would take away the 16-bit
conversion or the use of custom profiles. That's what C1 is all
about, after all.
Michael Tapes has been Phase One's main drum beater this side of
the pond for some time now. If they implode now then it won't be
for a lack of his business support. There's got to be a mistake.
Al,

Custom profiles will return next week, but I am still at odds with P1 management regarding 16-bit. You know where I stand and have stood since I hear about the discussion. I will continue to throw my weight behind this. (Maybe losing 30 pounds was not such a good idea...I could use some more weight it would seem:> )

But seriously, not a lcughing matter in my mind. I will continue to do whatever it takes. I cannot prmise that I (we) will win, but I am already bloddy and am prepared to go the distance (if anyone wants to read between the lines).

I regret this situation more than you know...

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
 
... as that is the only way we have at our disposal to let them know how much of a mistake this is. FWIW, here is the text of an email that I just sent:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I'm sending this email to voice my extreme displeasure with your current marketing plans relative to the feature set for the proposed C1 LE downgrade. You offered a package with specific capabilities to consumers (mostly hobbyists) who paid their hard-earned money for those features. Now you propose to charge these same users to give up a very, very important feature - a feature that for many of us was a primary reason for spending as much for C1 LE as we did in the first place.

Let me state that I have been happily using C1 LE for about 10 months now. As such, it is my understanding that I will be entitled to a free downgrade. If you persist in this ill-advised plan to remove features from C1 LE, I will not accept the free downgrade. I will (sadly) move onto a new product for my needs, and you will never get another cent from me - ever!

I am a principled individual who pays for any and all shareware that I use. I shun pirated software just as I shun pirated music. I pay for value received, and you will be removing promised value if you proceed with your current plans. PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE!

As a final note, I am somewhat of an early adopter, and many of my friends look to me for recommendations. I'm sure this means very little to you in the grand scheme of things, but you can rest assured that if you remove features from C1 LE 3.5, I will no longer recommend your software to any who ask - if fact I will recommend avoiding your software like the proverbial plague.

--
= Ed Rotberg =

'A waist is a terrible thing to mind'
http://www.edrotberg.org/gallery
 
I guess I timed my purchase of C1 LE just right... I bought the
software over the weekend - before the recent "upgrade" was
released.

I was impressed with the 15 day trial and decided to take the
plunge. I have always been shooting RAW but my workflow invloved
the Canon software. Needless to say, C1 is a big improvement on
this.

A selling point was the free upgrade period, which I won't be
taking advantage of unless the v.3.5 release mess gets sorted out.
It really would be a "downgrade" more than anything.

I can guarantee you that I wouldn't have purchased C1 had I not
snuck in just before 3.5 was released. And while I love the
software, I likely won't bother with them again unless they show
more commitment to their customers and correct their oversight.

I'm a marketing major, and I understand what they're trying to do.
Any business wants to "encourage" upgrades because it means more
profit. Nobody can fault them for that. But it has been poorly
executed and the consequence is that their customers are feeling
cheated. Alienating customers is always a bad thing, and with
Photoshop gaining popularity as a RAW coversion alternative (not to
mention a full imaging product), the timing couldn't have been
worse.

Hopefully they remember that the people purchasing the LE version
will eventually consider upgrading to more advanced (and more
expensive) versions as our needs change. But not with a bad taste
in our mouths...

James

--
http://www.jcsphoto.ca
Personal portfolio in progress. Feedback appreciated!
--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
 


I've notice this in quite a lot of recent images. See those stripes
on alternate lines? Versions 1.2, 1.3 and 1.3.1 all do it.
Photoshop CS doesn't.

I've sharpened this a little to make it more apparent and obviously
I've enlarged the pixels.

This looks like an interpolation bug to me. When we were developing
the colour science at my last company we had an error like this at
some point.

p.s. I wont be upgrading to a product that drops the 16bit support.
We plan to optimze our bayer interpolation for various cameras in our October release. it is always a tradeoff and these artifacts come about becuase we do many other things well, but on some images they are problamatic. it is our top priority for October. Enhanced quality and enhanced workflow..

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
 
Michael,

P1 would lose one of the best reasons for photographers to buy C1 - your support has been uniformly excellent.

Paul
But seriously, not a lcughing matter in my mind. I will continue to
do whatever it takes. I cannot prmise that I (we) will win, but I
am already bloddy and am prepared to go the distance (if anyone
wants to read between the lines).

I regret this situation more than you know...

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
 
Having assisted in the development of camera colour science, I understand the trade-offs involved. However, this artifact is not to my liking. Perhaps a future version could offer two different interpolation scenes with different strengths and weaknesses.
 
I agree. The product may not be perfect, but I am very impressed by MichaelT's activity in this forum and the pictureflow website. It was one of the things that convinced me to get C1 around v. 1.2 (I think). Product support is often more imporant than the product being the absolute best.
P1 would lose one of the best reasons for photographers to buy C1 -
your support has been uniformly excellent.

Paul
But seriously, not a lcughing matter in my mind. I will continue to
do whatever it takes. I cannot prmise that I (we) will win, but I
am already bloddy and am prepared to go the distance (if anyone
wants to read between the lines).

I regret this situation more than you know...

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
--
All my work are belong to me
 
Michael, I'm not yelling at you, I'm giving you my perspective. Hopefully, you'll pass this upstairs.

I know a little about software development... I worked in an environment with fulltime developers all around me. Someone is making business decisions without considering the company image. They're looking at what development costs are, and they don't care about the end-users.

They chose to force the "consumer" into a choice, and I can guarantee you that there will be not one single customer that will be happy about this. Do you know why? None of the choices are appealing.

If that's what your business leaders want, that's surely what they're going to get.
It's a no-win choice. Let's sum it up:

Fork out $29 and lose features,
Stay with the current offering, lose support,
Spend $150 and move up the ladder, recover features you used to have,
Go to Adobe, spend more money.

No matter what, this one is going to hurt everyone involved.

When business leaders force these types of decisions, it does NOT foster brand loyalty. In fact, it does the opposite. People start grumbling. They complain. Some will scream from the treetops to anyone that will listen.

Have you tried running a business where people complained? It's an uphill struggle. It's VERY hard to sell your product and be successful. If you put out a good product, stand behind it, and help your customers, the customers will sell it for you. You will quickly be the top of the heap. They will praise the product until... well, until something like this comes along, and suddenly, the whole thing comes to a screeching halt.

Your company's behavior makes them look greedy and un-interested in their customers. This is typical behavior for Microsoft and other large faceless corporations.

When smaller businesses make mistakes like this, they sometimes recover by correcting their error quickly. If they don't, they lose marketshare.

Once marketshare starts to erode, the good employees start to see the sinking ship for what it is, and quickly leave. Business managers quickly look for some way to salvage the business. Layoffs, downsizing, selling assets, general panic, and then the usual attempt to sell the business to someone else.

If your business managers want to create a hostile atmosphere, one in which loyal supporters angrily and quickly start spreading their bad feelings across the internet, photography studios, and to anyone who will lend an ear, by all means, continue to release "upgrades" like this one today.

Most of us know it's not the employees that make these dumb decisions, it's the idiot(s) in control that need to have some salt poured into their wounds. I won't be spending another dime until some company bigwig apologizes and corrects the mistake.

Michael, thanks for the info, I and many others appreciate it.

Print this, send it to your management.
I was just about to purchase the product for my new 10D, but now I
am completely turned off.
If this is true, and Michael doesn't change it, I'll just be
upgrading my PS 7 to CS very soon.

--
  • markE
http://www.wingsoflight.com



pbase supporter
I understand your feeling, but let's let this play out before you
give up on C1. It is still the best regardless of these release
snafus, so give me a little time to see what I can do. I appreciate
your frustration, but I appreciate your paitence even more :> )

--
Regards,

Michael Tapes
Senior Product Manager C1 RAW Workflow - Phase One
http://www.RawWorkflow.com
-
 
.... example how not to manage a company.

I Was About To Upgrade To The SE Version before the LE 16 Bit issue was made public. Now I thinking hard not to do this at all. The fact that Phase One is taking out features, charging for it and will no longer support prior versions, say volumes about the mentally of the Phase One's Management. In my opinion this looks like greed to me. I bet there are more LE owners than any of the other C1 product line, they have a captive market and are now squeezing more money from it.

There is nothing to stop them for doing the same thing for SE version. So why I should buy it? In the future they can take key functionally out of SE to force me to send the $500 for the full blown version. What works once for them they could do it again.

In one stupid management decision Phase One has destroyed the goodwill they had with outstanding product, C1. I cannot wait for next camera trade show and laugh in their faces. They must have known in advance of today, if they are releasing a new version of product that does not create 16 Bit photos, which is why we shooting in RAW in the first place, whould case major concerns and problems with their exisiting customers. This managment is frankly arrogant! I for one will no longer recommend C1, since do not know what will happen in the future with C1.

Right now Phase One management cannot just give 16 bit LE version. They have to explain why this very bad decision was made in the first place and what are they going to do to make sure this does not happen in the future.

I really do wonder if the management of Phase One owns an digital camera or they even takes photos! :(

Bill

--
http://www.Digital-Traveler.com

'New Yorkers like to think that their city is the center of the universe, and after spending some time there, I am not so sure they are wrong.'
Bob Krist from Spirit of Place
 
I for sure won't "upgrade" and loose the 16-bit output. 8-bit output with C1 is just not up to the task if you want to do some heavy post processing on PS. Just try to do a Gaussian blur on an 8-bit file and see the amount of banding you get. It's worse than 8-bit Photoshop ARC.

In fact, I am so tired of all the PhaseOne illogical, unfriendly and unilateral marketing decisions this company took in the last 6 months that I decided to adapt my workflow to ARC and try to get rid of C1, even though there is no doubt in my mind that C1 16-bit output is better than ACR for D60, 10D and DRebel raw files. For the Nikon D100 files, it's another story (C1 3.5 still doesn't support D100 and D70 predefined WB settings).

Sorry for ranting, but I feel sad for such an awesome product.
Hi forum

According to the product specs, the new version 3.5 of C1 LE
released today will NOT, I repeat not, include conversion to 16
Bit.. For that privilege you have to shell out another £149 for the
SE version...

In adittion, The $29 'upgrade' STILL does not wholly correct the
neon/ yellow/ green bug issues. We'll have to wait till October (?)
for that...

LE users are being squeezed and IMO 10D users unfairly treated.

I suggest you check out the info at
http://www.pictureflow.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27#

and if, like myself you feel cheated, register your complaints in
the feedback section.

It could be time to find a RAW conversion alternative.

Drew
--
Mskad.
 
especially with the included RAW converter in PS CS giving them some serious competition & now they decide to gouge people like this??

-John
 
Can't trust a crook. For example, how do I know that P1 will not screw me again after I upgrade to regain the 16bit software ability? Maybe next time they will take back another essential feature that I will need to spend more money for - even though I had already paid for it.

I agree this is "bait and switch" and it is a dishonest shakedown to force customers to buy other, more more expensive products.

.. the unfair business practice of bait
and switch. What other major software vendor do you know has done
the same thing? Right off hand I don't know of one until now.
 
I guess I timed my purchase of C1 LE just right... I bought the
software over the weekend - before the recent "upgrade" was
released.
James

--
http://www.jcsphoto.ca
Personal portfolio in progress. Feedback appreciated!
I got the LE 2 days ago. I was balancing between LE and SE...I would have gotten Breeze Downloader in a bundle with SE and ETC profiles...instead I got the DL seperately. So I'm a bit frustrated of the thought that I have to upgrade to SE NOW!

Valtteri
 
Unfortunately... by today's actioons, P1 declared that it does not give a damn for its customer base. In part due to this and also its focus away from the product's core value - image quality - I predict that C1 will be a footnote in the history of RAW conversion a year from now.

John
I'm associated with a software development company that has several
products. This company would never ever consider such a move as the
back lash would be overwhelming as will be the case with this
decision by P1. Rule #1 in business is to "Never forget your old
customers" as they were the ones that got you where you are in the
market place. Also statistics show that a significant % of a
company's revenue comes from existing clients and you surely don't
want to rock that boat!

I really like the product but unless there is a reversal in policy
on P1's part in regards to LE I will be forced consider other
alternatives such as PS CRW.
Hi forum

According to the product specs, the new version 3.5 of C1 LE
released today will NOT, I repeat not, include conversion to 16
Bit.. For that privilege you have to shell out another £149 for the
SE version...

In adittion, The $29 'upgrade' STILL does not wholly correct the
neon/ yellow/ green bug issues. We'll have to wait till October (?)
for that...

LE users are being squeezed and IMO 10D users unfairly treated.

I suggest you check out the info at
http://www.pictureflow.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27#

and if, like myself you feel cheated, register your complaints in
the feedback section.

It could be time to find a RAW conversion alternative.

Drew
 
C1LE is all about raw work flow and so are the people who have purchased it. We want maximum flexibility from the raw file or else we would not shoot in raw. 16bit output is a requirement not an option. If we wanted an 8bit image we’d shoot in JPEG and never have purchased C1LE. 16bit files are the heart of raw conversion, we know this and you (Phase One) know this, you have included it on all prior versions of your software! Removing 16bit and other features under the illusion of an “upgrade” only points to deception, greed and arrogance on your behalf. Gouging your current client base is no way to run a business. Do not take us for idiots by offering petty upgrade/downgrade tricks. We are the people who have allowed you to become what you are, and the people who will decide what you will be in the future.

You must give back 16bit, 3rd party color profiles, noise reduction sliders, and all else you have taken away from LE, you must apologize to your existing customers in writing, vow never to let this happen again, and ask for our forgiveness. You must do all of this very quickly. Raw is nothing without 16bit and Phase One is nothing without us.
 
C1LE is all about raw work flow and so are the people who have
purchased it. We want maximum flexibility from the raw file or
else we would not shoot in raw. 16bit output is a requirement not
an option. If we wanted an 8bit image we’d shoot in JPEG and never
have purchased C1LE. 16bit files are the heart of raw conversion,
we know this and you (Phase One) know this, you have included it on
all prior versions of your software! Removing 16bit and other
features under the illusion of an “upgrade” only points to
deception, greed and arrogance on your behalf. Gouging your
current client base is no way to run a business. Do not take us
for idiots by offering petty upgrade/downgrade tricks. We are the
people who have allowed you to become what you are, and the people
who will decide what you will be in the future.

You must give back 16bit, 3rd party color profiles, noise reduction
sliders, and all else you have taken away from LE, you must
apologize to your existing customers in writing, vow never to let
this happen again, and ask for our forgiveness. You must do all of
this very quickly. Raw is nothing without 16bit and Phase One is
nothing without us.
 
I'd never have imagined I'd see a post like that from you, John!

I, also, can't see this as being very wise. If the Phase One folks are not listening to Michael Tapes' input, and you'd like to think that they MUST be, then they are out of touch with their customer base. Too bad. I know what it's like to put your heart and soul into a product and have someone else pull the plug. It ain't fun. Wishin' MT a big bottle of Advil over the next few days.
John
I'm associated with a software development company that has several
products. This company would never ever consider such a move as the
back lash would be overwhelming as will be the case with this
decision by P1. Rule #1 in business is to "Never forget your old
customers" as they were the ones that got you where you are in the
market place. Also statistics show that a significant % of a
company's revenue comes from existing clients and you surely don't
want to rock that boat!

I really like the product but unless there is a reversal in policy
on P1's part in regards to LE I will be forced consider other
alternatives such as PS CRW.
Hi forum

According to the product specs, the new version 3.5 of C1 LE
released today will NOT, I repeat not, include conversion to 16
Bit.. For that privilege you have to shell out another £149 for the
SE version...

In adittion, The $29 'upgrade' STILL does not wholly correct the
neon/ yellow/ green bug issues. We'll have to wait till October (?)
for that...

LE users are being squeezed and IMO 10D users unfairly treated.

I suggest you check out the info at
http://www.pictureflow.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=27#

and if, like myself you feel cheated, register your complaints in
the feedback section.

It could be time to find a RAW conversion alternative.

Drew
 

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