Nikon West Coast Service maintains that back focusing problem is just a rumor

deanzat · May 17, 2004

I dropped off my camera last week, because the young lady at the counter was sure I'd have it back in time for a trip next week. Well, I guess this is why we invented beer... DZ

Photobug said:
Hope you get yours back soon!

CaseyJ said:

Photobug said:

I agree with your guess.

The record shows they had your D70 since 5/11. But when did they
actually receive it and when do you expect to get it back? Rep. at
Torrance quoted me 1 week turnaround. I hope it's true.

Click to expand...

The USPS tracking number showed that it was delivered to Nikon at
8:51 am on May 3rd. It was not checked in until May 11th and today
is May 17th and still not finished. I don't expect to receive it
back even this week. Hopefully next week. So 1 week turnaround
does not ring true.
CaseyJ

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/deanzat

Photobug197965 · May 17, 2004

Yes you seem to have worse BF problem than mine. Do you plan to have it fixed by Nikon?

I would if I were you. Mine won't show BF for such a shot, even if aperture is f/2.8. I can only verify BF on a 2D subject at f/2.8 or larger (or when DOF is shallower than 4").

BTW mine is from the first batch ever delivered by RitzCamera.com (in the US too I guess).

Photobug

Todd Lando said:
Please download the following JPG, UNALTERED and exactly as it came
from my camera, to see REAL LIVE BACKFOCUS. Tell me after
examining the image that my camera does not backfocus, and Ill
suggest an optometrist.

The image was focused on the subject's left eye, using the center
focus indicator at 24mm. No part of the focus indicator touched
the subject's ear, which you can plainly see, is in focus. The eye
is not. The camera was tripod mounted, using an SB-800.

EVERY portrait I've taken with this camera exhibits the same focus
pattern, with Nikkor 50mm f1.8, 17-35mm f2.8 and 12-24mm f4.

Photobug197965 · May 17, 2004

Kidding... she is gorgeous. But this is why we don't take portrait with wide angle. ;-)

Todd Lando said:
Please download the following JPG, UNALTERED and exactly as it came
from my camera, to see REAL LIVE BACKFOCUS. Tell me after
examining the image that my camera does not backfocus, and Ill
suggest an optometrist.

The image was focused on the subject's left eye, using the center
focus indicator at 24mm. No part of the focus indicator touched
the subject's ear, which you can plainly see, is in focus. The eye
is not. The camera was tripod mounted, using an SB-800.

EVERY portrait I've taken with this camera exhibits the same focus
pattern, with Nikkor 50mm f1.8, 17-35mm f2.8 and 12-24mm f4.

Rich Carlton · May 17, 2004

This issue of backfocusing seems to be debated like religion around here. The problem is subtle with many cameras, but undeniable. Not every camera has it, but unless you do careful focus testing, it is easy to miss. In the case of my d70, focus accuracy is actually not bad at or near minimum focus distance, but gets worse at increased distances. It's easy to write off those slightly OOF shots to a soft lens, camera shake, tiny DOF, etc. So test your camera. If it focuses well, you're one of the lucky ones. Congratulations.

Here's a link to some of my focus testing. I have shot many more images that confirm these as valid.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8814925

--

Rich
http://imageevent.com/doctorevil

CIASpook · May 17, 2004

This is wrong. You are not one of the lucky ones. You are one a vast majority. If you're camera does not focus properly, you're one of the unlucky ones.

Context is everything.

Rich Carlton wrote:
. If it focuses well, you're one of the lucky ones.

Rich Carlton said:
Congratulations.

Here's a link to some of my focus testing. I have shot many more
images that confirm these as valid.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8814925

--

Rich
http://imageevent.com/doctorevil

Radu Tenenbaum · May 17, 2004

Problem definitely exists. I sent mine in to Nikon service in Melville and it came back fixed. See my thread, w/test shots:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8658195

Radu

Jack Lumberman said:
I have used Nikon film SLR's as a serious amateur for over thirty
years and plan to buy a digital SLR this year. I have recently
read the reviews of digital SLR's by Phil Askey on this web site
and have found these reviews to be excellent.

I have read the reports of back focusing problems with the Nikon
D70 on this forum, and I have now delayed my plans to purchase this
camera as my first digital. I must first determine whether or not
the back focusing problems mentioned on this forum are real or
imagined.

On Friday May 14, 2004, I asked the manager (Tom) of Seawood photo
in Marin county about numerous postings on this forum-- such as
those by Henry Goh, Paul Lindqvist, and "Photobug"-- concerning the
back focusing problems they have experienced with Nikon D70
cameras. I mentioned to Tom that many Nikon D70 users seem to be
seeking recalibration of their D70 cameras by Nikon service
centers. NOTE: Seawood photo is the largest and most respected
camera shop in Marin county, the county just north of San
Francisco. Seawood photo repairs Nikon film cameras on the
premeises.

Tom said that he had not heard of such a back focusing problem and
he believed it must be just a rumor: "There have been no problems
and no returns of the 30+ Nikon D70's sold at Seawood," he said.
To be sure about his hunch concerning this so-called back focusing
problem, however, Tom called the West Coast Nikon service center
and spoke with their technician Jim Lee. Jim is the Nikon West
Coast technician "most knowledgeable" about Nikon's digital
cameras. I saved Tom's voice mail report of his conversation with
Jim Lee on May 14, 2004 so I could quote it accurately:

Jim Lee told Tom:
1. "Nikon does not acknowledge ANY problems or issues with the
Nikon D70. Nikon is not recalling or recalibrating any of the
Nikon D70 cameras."

2. Nikon maintains that the reports on the DPReview D70 forum of
back focusing problems are rumors that have been probably "stirred
up by competitors to Nikon who wish to discredit the most
successful new digital SLR camera to be released."

Whom am I to believe? I am reminded of the class action law suit
brought by owners of the Audi 5000 automobile who claimed that the
accelerator on their Audi 5000 would occasionally stick when the
automatic transmission was shifted into reverse gear. Audi always
maintained the claims were false, Audi was later exonerated, but
Audi lost the class action law suit (not to mention the sales) in
between these two events.

Either there is a back focusing problem or there is not a back
focusing problem. I hope those who edit this web site will POST AS
OFFICIAL NEWS on this web site whether this "rumor" of back
focusing and the Nikon D70 is true or false. If the rumor is true,
then owners of ALL D70 cameras that are potentially affected should
be contacted by Nikon so their cameras can be tested by their Nikon
service center. If the rumor is false, then those persons who have
manufactured the rumor should be exposed for trying to damage
Nikon's reputation.

The situation is not as serious as the problem experienced by Audi,
but the problem should be handled as I have indicated.

JL

--
Radu
http://www.pbase.com/raduray

John M. Polston · May 17, 2004

Be sure to post more of this model when you get your BF fixed.

JP

--
John M. Polston
Atlanta, GA

Todd Lando · May 17, 2004

She's my baby sister, and wasn't really happy when I posted her pic to begin with... But I'm sure she'll be flattered by your compliments!

I agree that a WA isn't best for portraits, but it's a shining example of backfocus in action. I will get the camera fixed. I do mostly landscape and scenics, so the BF hasn't totally hampered my shooting with the D70.

John M. Polston · May 17, 2004

Hehe, my sister never was mad as she's a big ham the first time I posted her picture and I sent her a link to the thread I started and she was so excited to see what people said about her. She could care less about the photography side of it, all she wanted to hear is how pretty she was. hehe. You're lucky to have such a pretty sister.

JP

Todd Lando said:
She's my baby sister, and wasn't really happy when I posted her pic
to begin with... But I'm sure she'll be flattered by your
compliments!

I agree that a WA isn't best for portraits, but it's a shining
example of backfocus in action. I will get the camera fixed. I do
mostly landscape and scenics, so the BF hasn't totally hampered my
shooting with the D70.

--
John M. Polston
Atlanta, GA

Gregg Humphrey · May 17, 2004

Buy the camera. Shoot everything and anything with every lens you own.
Either keep it, or return it. That simple.

Nick 2004 said:
Hi Jack,
Having read about lots of peoples back-focus problem I believe that
it is a genuine issue in SOME of the D70's in production. For Nikon
to deny this is a serious problem. Without official word from Nikon
though I wouldn't listen to any technician - in my experience with
sales and repair staff (of all sorts, not just camera people) they
often give their own opinion on something and not necessarily the
real deal. Or some line they've been fed by their superiors.
Having said that, my D70 has no problems. I've tested for
back-focus and it doesn't occur in my camera.
Don't let this issue put you off completely, but certainly feel
free to wait for an 'official' word. I hope you're not waiting too
long as this camera is really very good.

--
Nick Monk
D70, CP 5700
http://public.fotki.com/NickTheSinger/

Gregg Humphrey · May 17, 2004

Details please: what f/ setting, what was distance from camera to subjects face?

Photobug said:
Todd Lando said:

Please download the following JPG, UNALTERED and exactly as it came
from my camera, to see REAL LIVE BACKFOCUS. Tell me after
examining the image that my camera does not backfocus, and Ill
suggest an optometrist.

The image was focused on the subject's left eye, using the center
focus indicator at 24mm. No part of the focus indicator touched
the subject's ear, which you can plainly see, is in focus. The eye
is not. The camera was tripod mounted, using an SB-800.

EVERY portrait I've taken with this camera exhibits the same focus
pattern, with Nikkor 50mm f1.8, 17-35mm f2.8 and 12-24mm f4.

Click to expand...

PEHowland · May 17, 2004

Complete nonsense. There's a billion and one ways to achieve an out of focus picture, of which a cmaera fault is only one. There is only one way to get a picture in focus. The implication that there is a large group of D70 owners who can't tell that there pictures are out of focus is, frankly, laughable.

Mountains and molehills comes to mind.

CCPandQ said:
CCPandQ

Team Critter said:

You are right. This raises the question...

How many users have a D70 with a BF problem and don't even know it?
To my eye, the problem is obvious. To somebody else, maybe not so.

As long as Nikon keeps it quiet, a majority of people with this
problem will keep on shooting happily on their way. Sad as it is.

Click to expand...

--
--
Paul
See my photos at http://www.pbase.com/pehowland

Team Critter · May 18, 2004

Of course there are a billion and one ways to achieve an out of focus picture. We are not talking about a completely out of focus picture here...we are talking about backfocus (sometimes very slight) depending on the severity of the alignment problem with a particular D70.

How many people will notice slightly sharper ears than eyes? It's not like the eyes are always completely out of focus...just that the ears are 'sharper'.

How many people will view their images at 100% versus using their little programs to view images and resize them for emails for grandma?

Of course anybody can tell that a picture is out of focus BUT when it's slight backfocus we are talking about...

Hey wait! Here's one here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=8505637

Trust me, I've seen many more similar posts in this forum but I'm not going to waste my time searching for them. I've even shown these photos to others in the office; some of them couldn't see it either.

PEHowland said:
Complete nonsense. There's a billion and one ways to achieve an
out of focus picture, of which a cmaera fault is only one. There
is only one way to get a picture in focus. The implication that
there is a large group of D70 owners who can't tell that there
pictures are out of focus is, frankly, laughable.

Mountains and molehills comes to mind.

Khizhiy · May 18, 2004

Jack Lumberman said:
1. "Nikon does not acknowledge ANY problems or issues with the
Nikon D70. Nikon is not recalling or recalibrating any of the
Nikon D70 cameras."

Well, you know, they took my D70 for recalibration.

Jack Lumberman said:
2. Nikon maintains that the reports on the DPReview D70 forum of
back focusing problems are rumors that have been probably "stirred
up by competitors to Nikon who wish to discredit the most
successful new digital SLR camera to be released."

Nice try! If that is true, who is going to pay me for my report? Canon? Fuji? Olympus?

Jack Lumberman said:
Whom am I to believe?

Believe your own eyes. Check the camera you are about to buy. Salesmen often praise their goods, otherwise how whould they sell them?

tomtran_1 · May 18, 2004

I tested for back focus with the nikon bundled lens and the 70-200mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor.... yeah there is no denying it. I'm taking my camera in today. Does anyone know what is the turn around time for west coast's cervice center?

CCPandQ · May 18, 2004

That is exactly what a person in the larger group would think. They would never doubt their $1300 camera kit. You made my point for me very nicely.

Hey, maybe your camera has a focus problem and you haven't realized it yet? Don't feel bad if so, it took Henry Goh a relatively long time to realize his D70's focus could be improved.

BTW, I didn't say there was a large group, I said there more likely was a LARGER group. Both could be relatively small groups. That being said, I would say quite confidently that there is a significantly large group of D70 owners who couldn't determine unilaterally whether their camera had a focus problem or not.

CCPandQ

PEHowland said:
Mountains and molehills comes to mind.

CCPandQ said:

CCPandQ

Team Critter said:

You are right. This raises the question...

How many users have a D70 with a BF problem and don't even know it?
To my eye, the problem is obvious. To somebody else, maybe not so.

As long as Nikon keeps it quiet, a majority of people with this
problem will keep on shooting happily on their way. Sad as it is.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
--
Paul
See my photos at http://www.pbase.com/pehowland

nunatak · May 18, 2004

carry in service: they fixed both my backfocus and a crooked finder in less than one week. my girlfriend was compelled to ask if i had missed her as much as my camera ...

the born 2 design
design guy

MK · May 18, 2004

"my girlfriend was compelled to ask if i had missed her as much as my camera ...

"

DON'T answer that loaded question or you won't have fingers to press the shutter!!!

nunatak said:
carry in service: they fixed both my backfocus and a crooked finder
in less than one week. my girlfriend was compelled to ask if i had
missed her as much as my camera ...

the born 2 design
design guy

daye · May 18, 2004

Richard Ripley said:
Hi Jack:

I was in a semianr led by Jim Lee of Nikon yesterday at Samy's
Camera in Los Angeles and not to discount anything that Jim said
but he described his job as being in sales. You state below that he
is a technician. Jim has great technical skills but he told me that
he worked in sales for Nikon. Just wanted that to be clear. Thank
you for your post.

Working in the sales tells nothing about his job function.
Many of the best engineers of IBM work in sales. They
would have nothing to do with actually sellings.

Todd Lando · May 18, 2004

Exif's intact, but...

About 3 ft to subject,

Maker NIKON CORPORATION
Model NIKON D70
Software Ver.1.01
Datetime 2004-05-16 13:39:16
Exif version 30323231
Shoot datetime 2004-05-16 13:39:16
Image size 3008 x 2000
Compressed BPP 1 Bits/Pixel
Exposure time 1/60s
F-Number F 4.0
Exposure program Aperture priority
Exposure bias value EV 0
Max. aperture value F 4.0
Metering mode Multi-segment
Flash On Auto
Focal length 24 mm
Focal length In 35mm film 36 mm
Subject distance range Unknow
White balance Auto
Contrast Normal
Saturation Normal
Sharpness Normal
Macro On

Nikon West Coast Service maintains that back focusing problem is just a rumor

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