Oh, this is more of an expression to show huge self-disappointment ;-) It's like "Why God didn't give me such talent and skill !"
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Canon G1 or Sony 75
- Thread starter Max37446
- Start date
Another good point. When pictures are framed with dusts and age on and viewed from distance, the noise will make very little effect. BUT, you know, I like to looking at images on big screen from 4 inches away ;-)
U
Ulysses
Guest
J Ames -
Excellent post! I enjoyed reading your balanced (IMO) perspective on all of this.
I guess all forums will have their own "Neal".
I can't see how anyone would call the G1 images "defective". There are certainly qualitative differences. And I think you described very well the types of individuals and working styles to whom each camera is better suited. Cameras are tools. Tools for expression.
Thanks for the good and thought-provoking post.
Excellent post! I enjoyed reading your balanced (IMO) perspective on all of this.
I guess all forums will have their own "Neal".
I can't see how anyone would call the G1 images "defective". There are certainly qualitative differences. And I think you described very well the types of individuals and working styles to whom each camera is better suited. Cameras are tools. Tools for expression.
Thanks for the good and thought-provoking post.
"Tenacious" is a kind word for Neal. ;-) I think both the Sonys
and the G1 are great cameras that target slightly different groups.
Obviously Neal should have gone with Sony and saved himself and
us poor forum readers a lot of grief.
Also, to what you were saying Ulysses, Pekka claims he does not
alter the colors or sharpness of his images at all other than
downsizing for the web. Of course, he is far from your common
photographer. I actually believe that if you are a person who
doesn't want to touch a shot at all after taking it, then Sony is
the better way to go. I personally like taking photos in RAW format
where I can adjust the white balance, sharpness, etc. at my
computer instead of trying to select the optimal settings at the
time of taking the picture. Neal, in his blind pedantic way, calls
this compensating for defects. It's of course not defects, just a
lack of processing. From a purist point of view it's less
destructive to the image quality to choose the sharpness,
saturation, etc. from the original CCD data than to take a picture
that Sony's smart computer has already sharpened and color adjusted
and alter it. From a practical point of view, perhaps there is no
visibly significant difference. So to each his own. What I'd really
like would be a S75 that supports high capacity storage (perhaps
the new cd version), has iso50 with noise reduction, and allows you
to write in a RAW format as well as its excellent JPGs.
Until then, I'm thrilled with my G1 but concede that some day I may
own a Sony.
U
Ulysses
Guest
Yeah, I know!!! Bahahahahahahahah!!©
It will soon be time to get another prescription for eyeglasses!
Seriously, however, this raises another question: What size monitor do you use?
Sadly, I am still using 17".
It will soon be time to get another prescription for eyeglasses!
Seriously, however, this raises another question: What size monitor do you use?
Sadly, I am still using 17".
21 inch. I cannot tell you the brand. Alan will be all over me ;-)
A
Alan Hartmann
Guest
To borrow a phrase from Ulysses, Bahahahahahahahah!!©
Well unless you want to call him a liar there was nothing else done to the image. He called it straight from the camera. His definition is below. It is truly a phenomenal showing. Wow!
U
Ulysses
Guest
Peter G -
First of all, I'd never call someone like Pekka a liar. I'm surprised that you think that I would. So I'm hoping that you're just joking on that count.
My reference was to the HTML page on which he posted the picture. I did not have opportunity to read the entire LONG thread in the S&G forum.
The point is that the G1 has excellend noise reduction technology, and Pekka produced an excellent image.
First of all, I'd never call someone like Pekka a liar. I'm surprised that you think that I would. So I'm hoping that you're just joking on that count.
My reference was to the HTML page on which he posted the picture. I did not have opportunity to read the entire LONG thread in the S&G forum.
Many people do not consider that to be "editing." Many others do. It does not affect noise in some cases, and in other images it will.
The point is that the G1 has excellend noise reduction technology, and Pekka produced an excellent image.
I never understand "Bahahahah" thing. Probably you know that different cultures describe dog barking sound differently. The laughing should be more or like "HaHaHa..."
To borrow a phrase from Ulysses, Bahahahahahahahah!!©
I just wanted clarity. Your post that I answered clearly implicated that something extra was done to reduce the noise. I tend to exagerate at times. I don't suspect you would call him a liar. Downsampling can reduce noise, but I don't suspect white balance or contrast reduces noise (unless you make the image horribly flat).
Hopefully I will get to see some nice s75 pics before I make my decision.
Hopefully I will get to see some nice s75 pics before I make my decision.
First of all, I'd never call someone like Pekka a liar. I'm
surprised that you think that I would. So I'm hoping that you're
just joking on that count.
My reference was to the HTML page on which he posted the picture. I
did not have opportunity to read the entire LONG thread in the S&G
forum.
Many people do not consider that to be "editing." Many others do.
It does not affect noise in some cases, and in other images it will.
The point is that the G1 has excellend noise reduction technology,
and Pekka produced an excellent image.
U
Ulysses
Guest
Pondria -
Sorry about the confusion. Please allow me to explain more fully. ;-)
Use of the expression: "Hahah..." denotes laughter. However, there are different forms of laughter qualitatively, just as the Inuit people recognize different forms of snow and the Polynesians recognize different types of ocean wave action.
I tend to be a particularly joyful person, finding humor and irony in seemingly insignificant things. In my particular version of online laughter, I will often denote that with the onomatopoeic translation of a guffaw, or a hearty, boisterous burst of laughter. This is much more common in American culture than in some others. In other words, we can be too loud.
At any rate, when I want to let others know that I have had a particularly joyful experience or thought, I'll signify it with a loud and hearty guffaw!
Does that help explain a bit more clearly?
Sorry about the confusion. Please allow me to explain more fully. ;-)
Use of the expression: "Hahah..." denotes laughter. However, there are different forms of laughter qualitatively, just as the Inuit people recognize different forms of snow and the Polynesians recognize different types of ocean wave action.
I tend to be a particularly joyful person, finding humor and irony in seemingly insignificant things. In my particular version of online laughter, I will often denote that with the onomatopoeic translation of a guffaw, or a hearty, boisterous burst of laughter. This is much more common in American culture than in some others. In other words, we can be too loud.
At any rate, when I want to let others know that I have had a particularly joyful experience or thought, I'll signify it with a loud and hearty guffaw!
Does that help explain a bit more clearly?
Yes, Pwhoahoahoahoahoa !
Sorry about the confusion. Please allow me to explain more fully. ;-)
Use of the expression: "Hahah..." denotes laughter. However, there
are different forms of laughter qualitatively, just as the Inuit
people recognize different forms of snow and the Polynesians
recognize different types of ocean wave action.
I tend to be a particularly joyful person, finding humor and irony
in seemingly insignificant things. In my particular version of
online laughter, I will often denote that with the onomatopoeic
translation of a guffaw, or a hearty, boisterous burst of laughter.
This is much more common in American culture than in some others.
In other words, we can be too loud.
At any rate, when I want to let others know that I have had a
particularly joyful experience or thought, I'll signify it with a
loud and hearty guffaw!
Does that help explain a bit more clearly?
U
Ulysses
Guest
And my apologies for misunderstanding your post. Truly.
Really, I go to take a look at the G1 myself every chance that I get into a nearby Circuit City (I don't like CC, but they do at least have a great camera display area so that you can pick them up and handle them easily). Believe me, while there are a few things that I don't care for in its body, the pics that I'm seeing from it are simply undeniably good.
While there is more to a pic than NR, others (Sony included) need to catch up to Canon's noise reduction in order to remain competitive. Users are much more educated about this stuff than they used to be.
Man, what a tough decision you have in front of you, Peter! I'm interested in knowing how your updated list of priorities looks at this point, if you care to share them.
I'm in a holding pattern right now. I'm enjoying my F505V (poor and colorless winter weather notwithstanding) right now. But I do believe that this will be a year for change in some direction or another. There are enough advances in image quality and camera control for me to consider a camera like the G1 or the S75. However, it is my definite belief that it is worth the wait to see if anything else interesting happens in the year 2001 before deciding. The F505V is MORE than enough camera to keep me satisfied during trips, weddings, recreation, eBay, on-screen, and printing until then. My next upgrade will need to be considered "significant", not simply 'a little bit better' than what I currently am able to get from the F505V.
Really, I go to take a look at the G1 myself every chance that I get into a nearby Circuit City (I don't like CC, but they do at least have a great camera display area so that you can pick them up and handle them easily). Believe me, while there are a few things that I don't care for in its body, the pics that I'm seeing from it are simply undeniably good.
While there is more to a pic than NR, others (Sony included) need to catch up to Canon's noise reduction in order to remain competitive. Users are much more educated about this stuff than they used to be.
Man, what a tough decision you have in front of you, Peter! I'm interested in knowing how your updated list of priorities looks at this point, if you care to share them.
I'm in a holding pattern right now. I'm enjoying my F505V (poor and colorless winter weather notwithstanding) right now. But I do believe that this will be a year for change in some direction or another. There are enough advances in image quality and camera control for me to consider a camera like the G1 or the S75. However, it is my definite belief that it is worth the wait to see if anything else interesting happens in the year 2001 before deciding. The F505V is MORE than enough camera to keep me satisfied during trips, weddings, recreation, eBay, on-screen, and printing until then. My next upgrade will need to be considered "significant", not simply 'a little bit better' than what I currently am able to get from the F505V.
U
Ulysses
Guest
There you go, baby!!!
Yeah!!! Good for you!
Yeah!!! Good for you!
At any rate, when I want to let others know that I have had a
particularly joyful experience or thought, I'll signify it with a
loud and hearty guffaw!
A
Alan Hartmann
Guest
ROTFLMAO
(You do know that one, right?)
(You do know that one, right?)
Sorry about the confusion. Please allow me to explain more fully. ;-)
Use of the expression: "Hahah..." denotes laughter. However, there
are different forms of laughter qualitatively, just as the Inuit
people recognize different forms of snow and the Polynesians
recognize different types of ocean wave action.
I tend to be a particularly joyful person, finding humor and irony
in seemingly insignificant things. In my particular version of
online laughter, I will often denote that with the onomatopoeic
translation of a guffaw, or a hearty, boisterous burst of laughter.
This is much more common in American culture than in some others.
In other words, we can be too loud.
At any rate, when I want to let others know that I have had a
particularly joyful experience or thought, I'll signify it with a
loud and hearty guffaw!
Does that help explain a bit more clearly?
Gil Petri
Well-known member
I just have 1 more thing to add here: FIRMWARE UPDATES.
This makes a HUGE difference as Canon can repair MANY problems with the camera (as can be seen at the Canon Talk forum). Unfortunately we Sony fanatics are left with the option to buy a new camera
If the F505v had full manual mode (which isn't really a hardware thing in a camera w/o a dial) and firmware updates, I wouldn't be shopping for a new camera so early. BOCS, focus, NR, etc. could all be fixed via USB firmware updates.
OTOH, I could be biased since I'm a Microsoft Systems Engineer and I'm kinda used to software updates, lol.
Gil Petri.
This makes a HUGE difference as Canon can repair MANY problems with the camera (as can be seen at the Canon Talk forum). Unfortunately we Sony fanatics are left with the option to buy a new camera
If the F505v had full manual mode (which isn't really a hardware thing in a camera w/o a dial) and firmware updates, I wouldn't be shopping for a new camera so early. BOCS, focus, NR, etc. could all be fixed via USB firmware updates.
OTOH, I could be biased since I'm a Microsoft Systems Engineer and I'm kinda used to software updates, lol.
Gil Petri.
U
Ulysses
Guest
Gil -
OTOH, fortunately, Sony does many things right on the first try... or at least no later than the second model.I just have 1 more thing to add here: FIRMWARE UPDATES.
This makes a HUGE difference as Canon can repair MANY problems with
the camera (as can be seen at the Canon Talk forum). Unfortunately
we Sony fanatics are left with the option to buy a new camera
Only the BOCS is a bonafide bug in the software. Focus accuracy could have been improved (and it does seem faster and more accurate since the BOCS fix). But the others are just functions of normal operation.
Yeah, I'm guessing you probably like service patches to fix service patches. :-\
Johan Sahlin
Member
Yo!
Also, not noise reduction concerned, Canon digicams seems to have some problems with red colors. They tend to get pink in one way or another. I know about this, cause I used to own a S10. When I bought my new Olympus 3030 I did some comparsions at auto white balance and the result was striking, the Canon performed horribly!
Somewhere in this noise reduction processing the image looses some of its crisp feeling. Ive seen pictures of people's faces with Canon G2 and Pro90, the skin looks un-natural in some way, too smooth. It seems as though this noise reduction method gets rid of small details to only leave edges sharp and the rest of the small details all blurred out?!?
Also, not noise reduction concerned, Canon digicams seems to have some problems with red colors. They tend to get pink in one way or another. I know about this, cause I used to own a S10. When I bought my new Olympus 3030 I did some comparsions at auto white balance and the result was striking, the Canon performed horribly!
- Johan, who doesnt care about noise reduction and other magic digital methods
N
Nicholas Newell
Guest
To my eyes, colors are just not quite right on the Canon consumer cameras. Purple tinted skies are one symptom, yellow/green casts in people shots is another...
Somewhere in this noise reduction processing the image looses some
of its crisp feeling. Ive seen pictures of people's faces with
Canon G2 and Pro90, the skin looks un-natural in some way, too
smooth. It seems as though this noise reduction method gets rid of
small details to only leave edges sharp and the rest of the small
details all blurred out?!?
Also, not noise reduction concerned, Canon digicams seems to have
some problems with red colors. They tend to get pink in one way or
another. I know about this, cause I used to own a S10. When I
bought my new Olympus 3030 I did some comparsions at auto white
balance and the result was striking, the Canon performed horribly!
digital methods
- Johan, who doesnt care about noise reduction and other magic
No, sorry. That's too much for me. I learned LOL here with a lot of efforts ;-)
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