Canon user testing a D70 - subjective post

ZoomBoy

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Guys,

Before starting trowing stones, let me say that this is not a troll post, I was one of the first in this forum to own the DRebel the day it was released last year and I am a fervent visitor of the forum. I do not post too much due mainly to time constraints and I don't think my photographic skills are good enough for public display, but I try to learn and progress.

There have been a lot of posts blaming and bashing both the DRebel and the D70 and a lot of dicussions regarding which camera is better. In my opinion, none.

I had the opportunity to play with the D70 a cousin of mine just got and here are some of my observations, aimed mainly at those who spend some time in these forums trying to decide which camera to buy. I hope this helps.

1. The camera looks of better build quality than the Canon, is more bulky and heavy and the black color is nice (I hate to say that, but it is nice!).

2. The controls are more complicated and you'll have to deal with a complexity of dials and buttons. I like the simplicity of the DRebel and the more intuitive use of buttons, dials and even the software menus.

3. More settings are available for the D70 compared to the DRebel and you are able to fine-tune color curves and other parameters from the computer - this is a neat feature.

4. Color rendering and exposure were just crappy out of the box, but you can fine-tune them to achieve the desired results. The colors tend to be more saturated than Canons' (especially the reds) but are pleasant to the eye.

5. Matrix metering is a major plus - remember those Canon "white skies"? No more.

6. The auto-focus mechanism is by far more accurate on the DRebel compared to the D70, and the 7 points focus instead of 5 (D70) are a certain plus. The D70 seems to require more contrast that the DRebel to achieve a good focus.

7. I've missed the ability to save various custom profiles - only one at the time can be saved with the D70.

8. I know DRebel play and zoom are not state of the art, but wait to see the D70. Even if the LCD has a higher resolution, there is no zoom (only like 50%) to check for sharpness or artifacts. A feature I really miss.

9. FEC is there, but since I only use manual settings when taking indoor pictures I will not comment on it.

10. The lens kit is of higher speed than the DRebel lens kit and seems better built. And it has a metal mount. Looks a little sharper too.

11. Noise. Nikon has done an excellent job on keeping the noise levels down. I was always complaining to friends that the D70 has only ISO 200 compared to the DRebel's ISO 100 setting. Well, according to my observations, there is no noticeable difference between the noise levels of the outputs of both cameras at the above ISO setting. I was really impressed. At ISO 200, the DRebel is even a little noisier than the D70.

12. If you like to take action photos, you'll love the buffer speed of the D70. The consecutive shots are not limited to 4 by the buffer size. You can keep the shuttes pressed down and it will take consecutive pictures till the flash card is full.

Conclusion: There is more to say about both cameras, but I think the above points are essential for someone that is a prospective buyer of any of them. Overall, even if I really liked the D70 I will not change the DRebel for it, mainly because of the focus accuracy and the simplicity of the menus.

For those who like to play with buttons and settings, and if taking action pictures, the D70 is an excellent camera with more features than the DRebel.

If you like to "think" and take time to compose and study your pictures, both cameras do an excellent job, the DRebel being more focus accurate and more real-life colors compared to the D70.

The D70 is clearly a more advanced camera and more closer to the "pro" side than the DRebel. But again, it all depends on its usage and what you want to achieve. And do not forget that is the eye of the photographer that counts!

All the best,

ZoomBoy
"All pixels are not created equal"
 
I found the Nikon to be better ergonomically...you have a topside info screen - less flipping the camera, no blocking if you use an eyecup. You are in playback mode once the after-shot image is (near instantly) displayed. The camera has a nice working feel to it in use. Right hand hits DOF preview - a big help with long lenses. No wondering about which mode you are in or related changes. For example you can continuous focus three different ways depending upon your subject type. And only the focus changes, no change to ISO 400 to get continuous focus for example.

Many common changes you need to make on a Canon require menu time. On the Nikon there are more hot button capabilities. Much faster responses too. A menu pops up instantly - no 2-3 second delay.

The deeper menus are more for fine tuning stuff that you tend to set to your preferences one time.

Both are nice cameras. If you consecutively use them at a public event noone asks if you are a pro with the silver camera. That can be a plus or a minus. I was taken more seriously by others who saw the black camera. Personally I don't care much for colors...but others do and this does affect you.

AX
 
I've not used a 10D. But, from what I read, the report here makes me wonder if the 10D would be nirvana for those who cannot decide between the 300D and the D70.

Phil
 
responding and a bit less flexible than the D70. It has a metal body though, albeit larger and heavier.

AX
 
Both are nice cameras. If you consecutively use them at a public
event noone asks if you are a pro with the silver camera. That can
be a plus or a minus. I was taken more seriously by others who saw
the black camera. Personally I don't care much for colors...but
others do and this does affect you.
Pro cameras have vertical grips.
--
I'm sorry, we were unable to fix your headshot...
http://rhodeymark.instantlogic.com/PhotoGallery.ilx

 
I found the Nikon to be better ergonomically...you have a topside
info screen - less flipping the camera, no blocking if you use an
eyecup.
Yes, topside info screen helps, except if you have the camera mounted on a tripod and using a remote -then the DRebel screen comes more in handy
You are in playback mode once the after-shot image is
(near instantly) displayed. The camera has a nice working feel to
it in use.
Same the DRebel
Right hand hits DOF preview - a big help with long
lenses.
What is wrong with the left side?
No wondering about which mode you are in or related
changes. For example you can continuous focus three different ways
depending upon your subject type. And only the focus changes, no
change to ISO 400 to get continuous focus for example.

Many common changes you need to make on a Canon require menu time.
I disagree, I think is quite the opposite.
On the Nikon there are more hot button capabilities. Much faster
responses too. A menu pops up instantly - no 2-3 second delay.
No delay with my DRebel.

And try to auto focus the D70 on a suspended hair - forget about it! Focus accuracy seems to be a major drawback of this camera, unfortunatelly.
The deeper menus are more for fine tuning stuff that you tend to
set to your preferences one time.

Both are nice cameras. If you consecutively use them at a public
event noone asks if you are a pro with the silver camera.
(????? This is an urban myth - I used a silver pro camera for years) That can
be a plus or a minus. I was taken more seriously by others who saw
the black camera
(maybe, but I really doubt it).
Personally I don't care much for colors...but
others do and this does affect you.

AX
I like both cameras and I think each of them should be considered for their plus and minus features depending on what you want to achieve. Again, I personally consider the D70 a more modern camera, but not necesarly better, the DRebel still has an edge over D70 on extremely important issues.
--
'All pixels aren't created equal!'
 
You are in playback mode once the after-shot image is
(near instantly) displayed. The camera has a nice working feel to
it in use.
Same the DRebel

Well the Canon Digital Rebel which I used took a few seconds to display an image after you took it. It could only show a small histogram and partial shot data. To get into playback mode you had to hit the play button and again wait a few seconds. Pauses when you scroll through the stored images. To delete a shot after it was taken took more time - so most Canon folks might not want to take the time to do so. On the Nikon a blown shot is gone with two quick presses of a button, no looking down.
Right hand hits DOF preview - a big help with long
lenses.
What is wrong with the left side?

Nothing, except that your hand won't be near it if you use a long lense. But your right hand will be on the body..near a DOF preview button if it is located near your right hand. Using the 70-200 stabilized lense your left hand tends to be out by the zoom or focus lock buttons near the lens hood.
No wondering about which mode you are in or related
changes. For example you can continuous focus three different ways
depending upon your subject type. And only the focus changes, no
change to ISO 400 to get continuous focus for example.

Many common changes you need to make on a Canon require menu time.
"I disagree, I think is quite the opposite. "

Okay...I understand that you can only continuous focus in sports mode...which makes other changes at the same time....No?
On the Nikon there are more hot button capabilities. Much faster
responses too. A menu pops up instantly - no 2-3 second delay.
No delay with my DRebel.

"And try to auto focus the D70 on a suspended hair - forget about it! Focus accuracy seems to be a major drawback of this camera, unfortunatelly."

I haven't found this at all! Both seem to focus just fine overall. But at this weekends sport shooting, the Canon gallery had more focus issues than the Nikon. I was able to use continuous focus...set a camera button to lock it as desired, things like that. The guy shooting the Digital Rebel had to use noncontinuous focus and had more skies that were blown out white. For sports stuff, the response, faster buffer, faster bursts, fewer delays might make a difference to some.
The deeper menus are more for fine tuning stuff that you tend to
set to your preferences one time.

Both are nice cameras. If you consecutively use them at a public
event noone asks if you are a pro with the silver camera.
(????? This is an urban myth - I used a silver pro camera for years) That can
be a plus or a minus. I was taken more seriously by others who saw
the black camera
(maybe, but I really doubt it).
Personally I don't care much for colors...but
others do and this does affect you.

AX
"I like both cameras and I think each of them should be considered for their plus and minus features depending on what you want to achieve. Again, I personally consider the D70 a more modern camera, but not necesarly better, the DRebel still has an edge over D70 on extremely important issues."

I think it would be a good idea for preospective buyers to try each camera out a time or two. I don't think it would be wise to just buy mail order sight unseen. The in-hand characteristics are very different.

AX
 
After getting frustrated with the lack of AI Servo manual selection on my Drebel, I decided to take a look at the D70 yesterday. I only spent a few minutes with it so my first impression is just that.

I put a 100-300mm consumer lens on it in the shop (similar to the Canon lens I use) and was utterly unable to focus on anything in low light without high contrast. The lens focusing was also very loud and slooow.

I've owned many of the Nikon CoolPix cameras and loved them, I was prepared to love the D70 too - especially for the continuous drive. I decided to keep working with my 'crippled' Drebel and wait for Drebel II or a D10 mk2.
 
i agree with you and that's why i'm leaning towards the d70. the rebel's lack of metering choice unless you trick it with exposure lock, is a minus compared to d70 just choose the method. the minute i picked up the d70 i felt the difference.

yes Nikon menus are a real pain in the a$$.. but there are some quick buttons to help.
the ability to load custom curves is a big plus.
fec is a big plus.

there are enough custom functions to satisfy anyone.. heck you can probably save time by tuning in your tweaks rather than using photoshop after the fact. (in camera processing is done at 12bits rather than 8bits on PS).

i may wait for a cheaper 10d or better rebel, since i like the canon interface and cmos better than the nikon..
but anyone i know who has a rebel LOVES it...

you are not a troll. the d70 is a newer technology so of course it is better in some ways... just like the next canon may be better than the d70.

your post helps people decide between the 2 cameara.. that's why alot of people use this site.. for subjective, objective comparisons.
 
they match what i observed in handling the camera.

it's very well built.. DRebel can't touch the look feel of the D70.

Since i'm not a Nikon user the displays were very confusing and complicated for me.

Camera had a 28-105mm lens on it and it did focus slower than i am used to with the DRebel.

The menus had more options and i'm sure the camera is very tweakable.

As for the image quality, from all the review samples and images posted so far, i have gathered that the D70 is more color accurate and has very pleasing reds.. I don't like the noise though that appears time and again and i like rebel skies better.. plus the Rebel has tremendous potential for creating sharpening because of the 'softer' image .. i intentionally dial everything in minus.

I think the D70 advantage lies when shooting RAW and using Nikon Capture.. and that package is like $600 more expensive than what i got my Rebel for.. I passed on it for now.. but if Canon doesn't do any efforts to offer a fully functional camera at uner $1000.. i might move to Minolta's 7D for it's built in anti-shake!
1. The camera looks of better build quality than the Canon, is more
bulky and heavy and the black color is nice (I hate to say that,
but it is nice!).
2. The controls are more complicated and you'll have to deal with a
complexity of dials and buttons. I like the simplicity of the
DRebel and the more intuitive use of buttons, dials and even the
software menus.
3. More settings are available for the D70 compared to the DRebel
and you are able to fine-tune color curves and other parameters
from the computer - this is a neat feature.
4. Color rendering and exposure were just crappy out of the box,
but you can fine-tune them to achieve the desired results. The
colors tend to be more saturated than Canons' (especially the reds)
but are pleasant to the eye.
5. Matrix metering is a major plus - remember those Canon "white
skies"? No more.
6. The auto-focus mechanism is by far more accurate on the DRebel
compared to the D70, and the 7 points focus instead of 5 (D70) are
a certain plus. The D70 seems to require more contrast that the
DRebel to achieve a good focus.
7. I've missed the ability to save various custom profiles - only
one at the time can be saved with the D70.
8. I know DRebel play and zoom are not state of the art, but wait
to see the D70. Even if the LCD has a higher resolution, there is
no zoom (only like 50%) to check for sharpness or artifacts. A
feature I really miss.
9. FEC is there, but since I only use manual settings when taking
indoor pictures I will not comment on it.
10. The lens kit is of higher speed than the DRebel lens kit and
seems better built. And it has a metal mount. Looks a little
sharper too.
11. Noise. Nikon has done an excellent job on keeping the noise
levels down. I was always complaining to friends that the D70 has
only ISO 200 compared to the DRebel's ISO 100 setting. Well,
according to my observations, there is no noticeable difference
between the noise levels of the outputs of both cameras at the
above ISO setting. I was really impressed. At ISO 200, the DRebel
is even a little noisier than the D70.
12. If you like to take action photos, you'll love the buffer speed
of the D70. The consecutive shots are not limited to 4 by the
buffer size. You can keep the shuttes pressed down and it will take
consecutive pictures till the flash card is full.

Conclusion: There is more to say about both cameras, but I think
the above points are essential for someone that is a prospective
buyer of any of them. Overall, even if I really liked the D70 I
will not change the DRebel for it, mainly because of the focus
accuracy and the simplicity of the menus.
For those who like to play with buttons and settings, and if taking
action pictures, the D70 is an excellent camera with more features
than the DRebel.
If you like to "think" and take time to compose and study your
pictures, both cameras do an excellent job, the DRebel being more
focus accurate and more real-life colors compared to the D70.
The D70 is clearly a more advanced camera and more closer to the
"pro" side than the DRebel. But again, it all depends on its usage
and what you want to achieve. And do not forget that is the eye of
the photographer that counts!

All the best,

ZoomBoy
"All pixels are not created equal"
 
changes to have that much of price differential. However I was impressed with D70 kit lens.

BTW, you've done a good summary here.
 
i agree with you and that's why i'm leaning towards the d70. the rebel's lack of metering choice unless you trick it with exposure lock, is a minus compared to d70 just choose the method. the minute i picked up the d70 i felt the difference.
A higher percentage of the time you are able to get sky detail with the Nikon. Often a light blue sky blows out to white with little detail on the Canon Digital Rebel. You can deal with this of course. The Nikon metering and defaults tend to preserve detail like that. The Canon was set to center focus point only which hurts it's ability to meter. When you are shooting sports, you cannot waste time getting the 7 focus points to work the way you desire.

AX
 
i really don't know what the fuss is about metering.. these are digital cameras.. we've seen the future.. no more expensive spot meters or hand held incident ones costing as much as some camers.. just shoot the damn scene and review the histogram.. adjust (yes that's where your knowledge of using the histogram comes in handy) and shoot again..

that's what i do.. just use any kind if metering.. review the histogram.. arrive at the exposure and then never leave manual mode..

btw Rebel's evaluative metering is excellent and 9% partial is good for isolating parts of scene.. FWIW D70's 'spot' was measured at a fat 5% not 1%.
i agree with you and that's why i'm leaning towards the d70. the rebel's lack of metering choice unless you trick it with exposure lock, is a minus compared to d70 just choose the method. the minute i picked up the d70 i felt the difference.
A higher percentage of the time you are able to get sky detail with
the Nikon. Often a light blue sky blows out to white with little
detail on the Canon Digital Rebel. You can deal with this of
course. The Nikon metering and defaults tend to preserve detail
like that. The Canon was set to center focus point only which
hurts it's ability to meter. When you are shooting sports, you
cannot waste time getting the 7 focus points to work the way you
desire.

AX
 
based on handling a D70 at the store...
1. The camera looks of better build quality than the Canon, is more
bulky and heavy and the black color is nice (I hate to say that,
but it is nice!).
I got the same feeling:-)
2. The controls are more complicated and you'll have to deal with a
complexity of dials and buttons. I like the simplicity of the
DRebel and the more intuitive use of buttons, dials and even the
software menus.
I kind of liked all the buttons. I have a Coolpix 995 and the D70 have a similar feel.
8. I know DRebel play and zoom are not state of the art, but wait
to see the D70. Even if the LCD has a higher resolution, there is
no zoom (only like 50%) to check for sharpness or artifacts. A
feature I really miss.
Could this be a trade-off to get faster review times?
10. The lens kit is of higher speed than the DRebel lens kit and
seems better built. And it has a metal mount. Looks a little
sharper too.
Indeed! But it is more expensive.
12. If you like to take action photos, you'll love the buffer speed
of the D70. The consecutive shots are not limited to 4 by the
buffer size. You can keep the shuttes pressed down and it will take
consecutive pictures till the flash card is full.
I've been thinking about this one and I am not that sure. How often do I need to fill the flash card with consecutive pictures? Not often! What I need isn't a deeper buffer but a higher frame rate. I belive that both the D70 and 300D would have captured this penalty kick sequence in the same manner...



A higher frame rate would have enabled me to get the kick moment. Since both camera have about the same frame rate it is pure fluke if I get the right moment.

There is so much more to action shots than long sequences...

BTW: He scored that penalty kick and our team advanced to the semi-final (and in the end to the 2:nd place)
Conclusion: There is more to say about both cameras, but I think
the above points are essential for someone that is a prospective
buyer of any of them. Overall, even if I really liked the D70 I
will not change the DRebel for it, mainly because of the focus
accuracy and the simplicity of the menus.
I came to the same conclusion, but I was really tempted!
 
on the Canon Digital Rebel works best when all 7 focus sensors are active...which can hurt focus or cause delays...so many turn it off.

The sky detail thing may not show up very well on a histogram. You can avoid blowing stuff out but still have it be too bright.

AX
 
If you fill the buffer..the Canon makes you wait..no more shots. This can be a disaster if you shoot raw. Because after a few shots, there is about a 7-8 second delay until you can take one more shot. D70 has a continuous raw mode after the buffer is full of about 1 per second. Pause a second or two and the buffer can take a few shots. During the time the Canon is locked up the D70 can fill it's buffer again. Maybe more than this. Basically you always seem to be good to go.

AX
 
The D-70 is build for speed.

The 300-D is not build for speed.

If i need thad speed ,,nope I do not need it.
If I needed the speed I buyed the D-70
The two camera's where in the store.
I liked the D-70,But I buyed the 300-D I loved the 300-D pictures more.
Wat can I say.

Claus.m
If you fill the buffer..the Canon makes you wait..no more shots.
This can be a disaster if you shoot raw. Because after a few
shots, there is about a 7-8 second delay until you can take one
more shot. D70 has a continuous raw mode after the buffer is full
of about 1 per second. Pause a second or two and the buffer can
take a few shots. During the time the Canon is locked up the D70
can fill it's buffer again. Maybe more than this. Basically you
always seem to be good to go.

AX
 
What ultimately sold me on the Drebel was ISO 100. I know you can get pleasing images at ISO 200 on the D70 and I tried it at the store and I really wanted the fast buffer, because I wanted to shoot some timelapse sequences in high definition with it, but this is exactly why ISO 100 made a difference to me. When you shoot timelapse in broad daylight you need as long an exposure as possible to get motion blur, something you don't get shooting with a video camera, even if it is a 100,000 sony cinealta. This is why digital cameras are particularly suited for the job. But even as it is, I have to stack 2 ND8 filters to be able to expose a second or more at optimal aperture with the DRebel, and that is at ISO 100. ISO 200 would be a disaster because I would have had to buy very fancy and expensive really dark ND filters or stack 3 which in the end would have hurt my images further. I even wish Drebel had ISO 50, not for silky smooth images, but for practical purposes, I like being able to control my exposure times beyond ISO 200. Btw, the timelapse shots I've had the chance to shoot have been coming out great.

My .02
 
You can push to higher/lower ISO if you shoot RAW. The 10D gets ISO3200 by shooting an image in ISO1600 underexposed by one stop, then applying +1 digital EC. Some people shooting 300D's do the same using RAW and their RAW converter.

I have never tried, but I imagine you can apply the same technique in reverse to simulate ISO50. Shoot in RAW mode and set your exposure compensation to +1. When converting the RAW file, set digital EC to -1.

I imagine you might get problems with blown highlights if you take this technique too far, but it might be worth trying if it allows you to take a shot in daylight that you might otherwise have to wait for a cloudy day for.

I hope this helps! :)
What ultimately sold me on the Drebel was ISO 100. I know you can
get pleasing images at ISO 200 on the D70 and I tried it at the
store and I really wanted the fast buffer, because I wanted to
shoot some timelapse sequences in high definition with it, but this
is exactly why ISO 100 made a difference to me. When you shoot
timelapse in broad daylight you need as long an exposure as
possible to get motion blur, something you don't get shooting with
a video camera, even if it is a 100,000 sony cinealta. This is why
digital cameras are particularly suited for the job. But even as it
is, I have to stack 2 ND8 filters to be able to expose a second or
more at optimal aperture with the DRebel, and that is at ISO 100.
ISO 200 would be a disaster because I would have had to buy very
fancy and expensive really dark ND filters or stack 3 which in the
end would have hurt my images further. I even wish Drebel had ISO
50, not for silky smooth images, but for practical purposes, I like
being able to control my exposure times beyond ISO 200. Btw, the
timelapse shots I've had the chance to shoot have been coming out
great.

My .02
--

---
http://www.pbase.com/ckrueger
 

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