aaron53665
Senior Member
well i know i came into it late, a couple of days ago, but i tried emailing the original contact and just got that message: email not read, deleted without being read
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1dmk2: HOT price @ dell $3900 & free ship
- Thread starter Robert Vance
- Start date
RickS170293
Leading Member
Frikkin Pied Piper of "discount MarkII's".
Anyone actually GET one of the Dell or CDW orders?
ATTENTION K-MART SHOPPERS!!!!
This is a $4,499 camera that just got released to the public. The only reason ANY vendor would discount these so heavily RIGHT NOW, is because they aren't aren't a CAMERA VENDOR, and they haven't got a CLUE what they're selling (at least Justin @ CDW didn't, I spent a 1/2 explaining to him just WHY he had 90 voicemails when he got back to luch that day + the kid wanted to CRY when I told him that he "could have" taken the same amount of orders @ FULL PRICE).
I understand the impulse to try and save money. If there was an even 1/2-way RELIABLE way to order this at a discount, and have SOME ASSURANCE of getting it before the end of June, I'd have certainly joined in myself.
Most of these vendors are forced to collect SALES TAX from end-user purchasers, so a $4,000 camera + sales tax = ? (4,240 in fla.). If you buy from B&H or one of the other vendors (that doesn't collect taxes) you might spend $250 more, but you at least are dealing with someone that can give you a "reasonable expectation" of when you might actually get your camera.
Y'all may not care how long it takes for you to get your camera's, and that's OK too. But if a couple of hundred $$ is the difference between you wanting this camera or not, you're looking at the wrong camera anyway.
Thanks again Robert. You are a consistant source of amusement to me.
Rick
Anyone actually GET one of the Dell or CDW orders?
ATTENTION K-MART SHOPPERS!!!!
This is a $4,499 camera that just got released to the public. The only reason ANY vendor would discount these so heavily RIGHT NOW, is because they aren't aren't a CAMERA VENDOR, and they haven't got a CLUE what they're selling (at least Justin @ CDW didn't, I spent a 1/2 explaining to him just WHY he had 90 voicemails when he got back to luch that day + the kid wanted to CRY when I told him that he "could have" taken the same amount of orders @ FULL PRICE).
I understand the impulse to try and save money. If there was an even 1/2-way RELIABLE way to order this at a discount, and have SOME ASSURANCE of getting it before the end of June, I'd have certainly joined in myself.
Most of these vendors are forced to collect SALES TAX from end-user purchasers, so a $4,000 camera + sales tax = ? (4,240 in fla.). If you buy from B&H or one of the other vendors (that doesn't collect taxes) you might spend $250 more, but you at least are dealing with someone that can give you a "reasonable expectation" of when you might actually get your camera.
Y'all may not care how long it takes for you to get your camera's, and that's OK too. But if a couple of hundred $$ is the difference between you wanting this camera or not, you're looking at the wrong camera anyway.
Thanks again Robert. You are a consistant source of amusement to me.
Rick
Ferenc
Senior Member
...and, unless I get bumped around (by those orders of x2 or x3 units, which is why the care the most now), it seems that it will go through.
Sorry to hear your order is being delayed. Probably bad luck, who knows.
Anyway, my real expectation is May 15th to May 30th, since that's the timeline that INGRAM Micro and Canon (Dell's sources of MKIIs) are projecting.
INGRAM Micro, btw, is the largest technology distributor in the world, with well over $7.5billion of gross revenue, per year. If they can't get a small shipment of MKIIs, I presume that no one could do so, before them.
Kind regards, and good luck,
Ferenc
Sorry to hear your order is being delayed. Probably bad luck, who knows.
Anyway, my real expectation is May 15th to May 30th, since that's the timeline that INGRAM Micro and Canon (Dell's sources of MKIIs) are projecting.
INGRAM Micro, btw, is the largest technology distributor in the world, with well over $7.5billion of gross revenue, per year. If they can't get a small shipment of MKIIs, I presume that no one could do so, before them.
Kind regards, and good luck,
Ferenc
These big distributors are 2nd-class citizens compared to the Canon professional dealers like B&H. Way back in the D60 days I was able to order at a discount from an Ingram dealer and I waited for months before I finally gave up and ordered one from a camera dealer and got it the next day.
These distributors are also famous for giving very unreliable ETA dates and then moving the ETA farther and farther into the future as the date passes.
--
Steve
Ferenc
Senior Member
...Have you ever heard what the "marketing", "Strategy", "market share" terms mean?
Did you know that you can literally buy market share in a given market segment, by leveraging on a key/core strength/s (like your brand, logisitics/distribution/customer service)?
That's what DELL is doing. When you have such an impressive purchasing power, being yourself an enormous distribution channel, fine-tuned for mail delivery, with a huge customer-base, they do not give a cr... if they selectively choose to loose money to conquer a specific segment of the market, or if they intentionally manage customers expectations to try to grab as much as they can. Of course, the good thing with Dell (contrary to many other channels), is that you still have a voice, and you still can complain loud... and if you complain loud enough, they will go your way (my own and many others experience!).
This is just about plain, hard/cold business.
Happy MKII shooting!
Did you know that you can literally buy market share in a given market segment, by leveraging on a key/core strength/s (like your brand, logisitics/distribution/customer service)?
That's what DELL is doing. When you have such an impressive purchasing power, being yourself an enormous distribution channel, fine-tuned for mail delivery, with a huge customer-base, they do not give a cr... if they selectively choose to loose money to conquer a specific segment of the market, or if they intentionally manage customers expectations to try to grab as much as they can. Of course, the good thing with Dell (contrary to many other channels), is that you still have a voice, and you still can complain loud... and if you complain loud enough, they will go your way (my own and many others experience!).
This is just about plain, hard/cold business.
Happy MKII shooting!
Ferenc
Senior Member
...since I love B&H and I just purchased all my lenses, accessories, etc... from them! 
But we do need to keep in mind that B&H sales (even being solely about photo & video), are a drop in the ocean, when compared to DELL's own and INGRAM, for instance... To some extent, the same applies to their purchasing power.
Last but not least, DELL's suppliers (at least one are not second-class. They buying from INGRAM and CANON (both). And I currently have no issues with any further delay (if any), since I will be with $400 in my pockets.
Hapy shooting!
But we do need to keep in mind that B&H sales (even being solely about photo & video), are a drop in the ocean, when compared to DELL's own and INGRAM, for instance... To some extent, the same applies to their purchasing power.
Last but not least, DELL's suppliers (at least one
are not second-class. They buying from INGRAM and CANON (both). And I currently have no issues with any further delay (if any), since I will be with $400 in my pockets.Hapy shooting!
That's absolutely true, but greater purchasing power has very little to do with getting higher (or even equal) priority in the allocation process. Canon gives higher priority to photo dealers than large electronics distributors.
It's not just Canon either. B&H currently has the 2GB Sandisk Ultra II card in stock, for example. Good luck finding one of those in stock at an Ingram dealer. They also carry the Sandisk Extreme line of cards, which you can't even get through electronics distributors like Ingram.
As long as you don't mind being deprioritized and waiting indefinitely, I agree you can save some money this way. In addition to the lower priority from Canon, you have to deal with the fact that Dell will dramatically oversell their allocation (either intentionally or unintentionally). For example, if they get 10 cameras a week with the next shipment coming in on May 15, they will take 1000 orders and tell them all that the cameras are expected on May 15.Last but not least, DELL's suppliers (at least one
second-class. They buying from INGRAM and CANON (both). And I
currently have no issues with any further delay (if any), since I
will be with $400 in my pockets.
--
Steve
RickS170293
Leading Member
Oh BS. Don't try to make this about "Market Dominance". Dell is trying to be the "Wallmart" of technology. They're buying from Ingram Micro, right? I'm in the computer business, and I buy from Ingram Micro too.
They apparantly didn't "play" this one right, because part of their "impressive purchasing power" is thier cancellation of orders and refusal to take orders.
Your impression that you can get Dell to ship you product at near cost, because you whine, shout and stomp your feet, "may" be true - but it's the exception and not the rule. The "order takers", as they are not Photography Professionals, or even Computer or Technology professionals - they are COMMISSIONED SALESMAN that make $$ on the margin, regardless of how small or large it is (and I've worked in technology distribution for TechData & SED, so I know how THAT end of the business works also) and don't CARE how cheep they sell, just to make the sale. They don't have a CLUE as to what they're selling, and it doesn't matter either. At least at Ingram or Tech Data, the sales team has "some" product knowlege.
Dell is never going to "conquer the market" on Canon DSLR Sales, nor does it appear they're going to make very much $$ at it, at the margins they're selling at (with inside knowlege of just what the COST on these things are).
They have access to the full Canon Product line, based on thier dealer agreement (as does CDW and some of the other large technology vendors that are not specifically camera vendors).
This is not some conspiracy to corner the market, nor is it even strategy. Someone browbeat a salesman into a lower price, and said he had a "couple" of friends he was going to turn him onto. The he posted it here, on galbraith (where it was deleted by the moderator) and miranda (and god knows how many other forums) and the guy (and Dell salesman in general) was inundated with calls all DEMANDING to get the same price.
It appears from what's goin on here, that they bit off more than they could chew. It's the second time "helpful Bob" helped people here out, and it looks like the second time where people are going to have to wait for INDEFINATE PERIODS OF TIME to get thier discounted camera's. And in the event they actually have to call for SUPPORT, they will get NONE (versus buying from a CAMERA VENDOR).
Canon does not "endorse" this behavior, as it undermines thier CAMERA DEALERS ability to sell at MAP, and Canon's ability to support product via thier dealer network. You don't think Ingram Micro is going to provide support for the MarkII, or that they will even SPEAK TO and end user, do you?
But then again, it really doesn't matter - as the REAL CAMERA VENDORS will sell as many of these as they can get thier hands on, for the forseeable future, and WITHOUT having to discount.
But for that matter, if a few hundred dollars is going to make or break someone's decision to buy a MarkII, they're getting into the WRONG HOBBY anyway...
Rick
They apparantly didn't "play" this one right, because part of their "impressive purchasing power" is thier cancellation of orders and refusal to take orders.
You mean, you can get your way...
Guess it is. I'm in business too. I already sell most equipment at minimal margins, just to stay competitive (tough to do, when Ingram, Tech Data, Merisel, etc., are only a point or two BELOW CDW, Dell, etc. - and I refuse to sell off-brand garbage). If someone "has a voice, and get's loud with me about how he'll go somewhere else, and doesn't see the advantage of dealing with a local vendor and SPECIALIST, I tell them to go buy it from Dell/Gateway/CDW - and see how fast they get it fixed when they REALLY NEED IT BAD.
Your impression that you can get Dell to ship you product at near cost, because you whine, shout and stomp your feet, "may" be true - but it's the exception and not the rule. The "order takers", as they are not Photography Professionals, or even Computer or Technology professionals - they are COMMISSIONED SALESMAN that make $$ on the margin, regardless of how small or large it is (and I've worked in technology distribution for TechData & SED, so I know how THAT end of the business works also) and don't CARE how cheep they sell, just to make the sale. They don't have a CLUE as to what they're selling, and it doesn't matter either. At least at Ingram or Tech Data, the sales team has "some" product knowlege.
Dell is never going to "conquer the market" on Canon DSLR Sales, nor does it appear they're going to make very much $$ at it, at the margins they're selling at (with inside knowlege of just what the COST on these things are).
They have access to the full Canon Product line, based on thier dealer agreement (as does CDW and some of the other large technology vendors that are not specifically camera vendors).
This is not some conspiracy to corner the market, nor is it even strategy. Someone browbeat a salesman into a lower price, and said he had a "couple" of friends he was going to turn him onto. The he posted it here, on galbraith (where it was deleted by the moderator) and miranda (and god knows how many other forums) and the guy (and Dell salesman in general) was inundated with calls all DEMANDING to get the same price.
It appears from what's goin on here, that they bit off more than they could chew. It's the second time "helpful Bob" helped people here out, and it looks like the second time where people are going to have to wait for INDEFINATE PERIODS OF TIME to get thier discounted camera's. And in the event they actually have to call for SUPPORT, they will get NONE (versus buying from a CAMERA VENDOR).
Canon does not "endorse" this behavior, as it undermines thier CAMERA DEALERS ability to sell at MAP, and Canon's ability to support product via thier dealer network. You don't think Ingram Micro is going to provide support for the MarkII, or that they will even SPEAK TO and end user, do you?
But then again, it really doesn't matter - as the REAL CAMERA VENDORS will sell as many of these as they can get thier hands on, for the forseeable future, and WITHOUT having to discount.
But for that matter, if a few hundred dollars is going to make or break someone's decision to buy a MarkII, they're getting into the WRONG HOBBY anyway...
Rick
Jim Campbell
Senior Member
Jim Campbell
Senior Member
in most states, however, if you order it from a business rep you will pay sales tax. If you have the SKU just call and respond to the voice mail prompt that you are ordering it for home. BTW, I waited 4 months but Dell did send the 70 - 200 and it was under 1100.
Also, you may as well request overnight shipping. They will miss the ship date for sure and then the rep will pick up the tab fo r overnight Airborne.
Also, you may as well request overnight shipping. They will miss the ship date for sure and then the rep will pick up the tab fo r overnight Airborne.
RickS170293
Leading Member
Most states were upset about the sales tax revenue lost to internet/mail order sales. Those states have determined, that if the entity has operational offices in that particular state, they must COLLECT sales tax on sales that are shipped TO that state. (vendors don't CHARGE sales tax, they COLLECT IT on behalf of the states). RESELLERS or people that have resale tax ID's for the state(s) in question can file those with the vendor, and collect the sales tax when they RESELL the product.
Laws vary from state to state.
WHY should Dell collect sales tax from BUSINESSES (when they are END USERS) and not from plain old end users (home)? The sales tax laws are for ALL end users.
Your statement makes no sense, and does not jibe with sales tax laws. SOME states even have laws that REQUIRE residents to PAY sales tax to the state for goods purchased out of state where the vendor does not collect taxes.
http://www.state.fl.us/dor/consumer/
Rick
Laws vary from state to state.
WHY should Dell collect sales tax from BUSINESSES (when they are END USERS) and not from plain old end users (home)? The sales tax laws are for ALL end users.
Your statement makes no sense, and does not jibe with sales tax laws. SOME states even have laws that REQUIRE residents to PAY sales tax to the state for goods purchased out of state where the vendor does not collect taxes.
http://www.state.fl.us/dor/consumer/
Rick
astroguy
Forum Enthusiast
When you buy from an out-of-state company the tax you owe is actually called a "use tax" rather than a "sales tax."
I think the reason that Dell Business collects the tax is that individuals routinely violate the use tax laws and don't pay the tax they owe on items they buy from out-of-state companies. They're very sensitive to price and resellers know that these customers would just order somewhere else if they collected the tax.
Businesses, on the other hand, can't get away with ignoring the tax so easily and so some of the resellers that cater to business customers will collect the tax as a convenience.
--
Steve
Ferenc
Senior Member
...I am the one who's ordering, and you are safe from the risk!
Now, mind you I do not have any problems experimenting with those extra $400 that may wind up in my pockets. Remember, there is hope... there's always some hope that things happen the way you need/expected them. It's definitely worth trying. What's the worst thing that could happen? Order cancelled? No problems, here.
If DELL, as you point out, wants to be the Wallmart of technology... let me tell you that they may be quiet successful, just like Walmart, if they manage and leverage on their purchasing power, distribution model and brand-name.
... $400 is still money, here and in China as well. And as long as I have a chance to get them... Well, I have already explained. I am not sure if you are suggesting that, in order to be a Pro, you need to pay the highest price, for everything... That, to me, does not look like a sound business principle to operate upon.
Let's just chill out... and let's see who are the real pros when these toys arrive. See you then!!!
Now, mind you I do not have any problems experimenting with those extra $400 that may wind up in my pockets. Remember, there is hope... there's always some hope that things happen the way you need/expected them. It's definitely worth trying. What's the worst thing that could happen? Order cancelled? No problems, here.
If DELL, as you point out, wants to be the Wallmart of technology... let me tell you that they may be quiet successful, just like Walmart, if they manage and leverage on their purchasing power, distribution model and brand-name.
That's funny!
... $400 is still money, here and in China as well. And as long as I have a chance to get them... Well, I have already explained. I am not sure if you are suggesting that, in order to be a Pro, you need to pay the highest price, for everything... That, to me, does not look like a sound business principle to operate upon.Let's just chill out... and let's see who are the real pros when these toys arrive. See you then!!!
Robert Vance
Forum Enthusiast
equal almost $850 of earnings, basing on my income taxes.
I wonder why a village fool doesn't want anyone to get this camera at a discount?
He bashed me for suggesting CDW & Dell. With the associated CDW post he called and kept Justin on the phone for about an hour, by his own estimate, with no interntion to buy, But to qualify for EVERYONE else that CDW deal was a SCAM? He has stated that he would never buy from discount firms so what gives? Is this a CRY for help?
Happy Shooting
RV
I wonder why a village fool doesn't want anyone to get this camera at a discount?
He bashed me for suggesting CDW & Dell. With the associated CDW post he called and kept Justin on the phone for about an hour, by his own estimate, with no interntion to buy, But to qualify for EVERYONE else that CDW deal was a SCAM? He has stated that he would never buy from discount firms so what gives? Is this a CRY for help?
Happy Shooting
RV
Now, mind you I do not have any problems experimenting with those
extra $400 that may wind up in my pockets. Remember, there is
hope... there's always some hope that things happen the way you
need/expected them. It's definitely worth trying. What's the worst
thing that could happen? Order cancelled? No problems, here.
If DELL, as you point out, wants to be the Wallmart of
technology... let me tell you that they may be quiet successful,
just like Walmart, if they manage and leverage on their purchasing
power, distribution model and brand-name.
That's funny!
well. And as long as I have a chance to get them... Well, I have
already explained. I am not sure if you are suggesting that, in
order to be a Pro, you need to pay the highest price, for
everything... That, to me, does not look like a sound business
principle to operate upon.
Let's just chill out... and let's see who are the real pros when
these toys arrive. See you then!!!
Ferenc
Senior Member
...a matter of "something-must-be-wrong" or a self-inflicted "I can't possible save that amount", linked to these firms... Mind you that I have bought from Ritz, B&H, E-Cost, DELL, etc... and Walmart too!
In the mean time, I have all the time in the world...
Happy shooting!!!
In the mean time, I have all the time in the world...
Happy shooting!!!
I wonder why a village fool doesn't want anyone to get this camera
at a discount?
He bashed me for suggesting CDW & Dell. With the associated CDW
post he called and kept Justin on the phone for about an hour, by
his own estimate, with no interntion to buy, But to qualify for
EVERYONE else that CDW deal was a SCAM? He has stated that he would
never buy from discount firms so what gives? Is this a CRY for
help?
Happy Shooting
RV
Now, mind you I do not have any problems experimenting with those
extra $400 that may wind up in my pockets. Remember, there is
hope... there's always some hope that things happen the way you
need/expected them. It's definitely worth trying. What's the worst
thing that could happen? Order cancelled? No problems, here.
If DELL, as you point out, wants to be the Wallmart of
technology... let me tell you that they may be quiet successful,
just like Walmart, if they manage and leverage on their purchasing
power, distribution model and brand-name.
That's funny!
well. And as long as I have a chance to get them... Well, I have
already explained. I am not sure if you are suggesting that, in
order to be a Pro, you need to pay the highest price, for
everything... That, to me, does not look like a sound business
principle to operate upon.
Let's just chill out... and let's see who are the real pros when
these toys arrive. See you then!!!
RickS170293
Leading Member
Actually it's a hobby for me, I don't earn a living from shooting, though I do incorprate photography in the websites and graphics that my spouse does for our business. I'd LOVE to shoot full-time, but I need to pay my bills (starving artists and what not).
To re-touch on one of your points about "browbeating" Dell into giving you a good price. I tried to beat B&H up on a lens purchase this week, they wouldn't match Abes price on a 24-70, and actually wouldn't BUDGE on thier published price. I did the spiel about all the thousands I've spent there (he had my customer record on the computer screen in front of him). No Dice. Ya know what I DID? I bought from B&H, because I don't KNOW Abes, but I DO know B&H. I'd rather spend a little more, to get the level of support I'm used to getting, than save a couple of $$ jumping off into the "unknown"...
Rick
Better you than me....I am the one who's ordering, and you are safe from the risk!
The frustration level of many folks around here, is pretty high. Most of the folks that backed themselves into a corner by selling thier main shooting rigs have gotten thier MarkII's already.
Blah blah blah. Purchasing power, distro model, brand name. I'm not knocking Dell (our your "insiders view" on thier business model), I'm simply stating that as a fairly well researched consumer, I'd rather pay a couple of bucks more to a vendor that specializes in the type of gear I'm buying, than a box shuffler. And I use the same "business model" for my own business. I "could" pay less for the equipment I buy, and either make more $$, or save my clients $$. I buy mostly from a local vendor that's a little more expensive, but can SUPPORT me on warranty issues and other issues. The LEVEL OF SERVICE they provide me, is well worth the extra $$, and allows me to provide MY customers with a better level of service, at less cost to ME in the long run.
Never once did I suggest that. I buy some stuff from a local Ritz Camera. Mainly gear bags, small accessories, etc.. I'd LOVE to buy my lenses from them, but their corporate structure will not allow them to even come CLOSE to B&H. Paying more doesn't make you a Pro by any stretch.That's funny!
well. And as long as I have a chance to get them... Well, I have
already explained. I am not sure if you are suggesting that, in
order to be a Pro, you need to pay the highest price, for
everything... That, to me, does not look like a sound business
principle to operate upon.
To re-touch on one of your points about "browbeating" Dell into giving you a good price. I tried to beat B&H up on a lens purchase this week, they wouldn't match Abes price on a 24-70, and actually wouldn't BUDGE on thier published price. I did the spiel about all the thousands I've spent there (he had my customer record on the computer screen in front of him). No Dice. Ya know what I DID? I bought from B&H, because I don't KNOW Abes, but I DO know B&H. I'd rather spend a little more, to get the level of support I'm used to getting, than save a couple of $$ jumping off into the "unknown"...
-yawn- yeah, see you about when? Oh, June/July? Sure, look me up. By then I'll have 2-3 months of shooting and 1,000's of exposures...
Rick
RickS170293
Leading Member
I'd love to see EVERYONE get thiers at a discount. PLEASE show me someone who has ACTUALLY GOT ONE, from one of your "tips".
No fool, I brought a suspicious posting pattern to the forums attention (nor was I the only one who thought it was "suspect") and then spent the TIME to verify and post my findings (and an APOLOGY to YOU if you recall - which had nothing to do with your CHILDISH THREAT to SUE ME). I did this to qualify that it WASN'T A SCAM, out of concern for my fellow forum members. More than any postive contributions YOU'VE made here.
Cut the "cry for help" troll. It's OLD & TIRED already. Ask Ron to write some new material for you...
Rick
Jim Campbell
Senior Member
your mileage may vary in other states.
Robert Vance
Forum Enthusiast
Not the ones who make a living in photographyBetter you than me....I am the one who's ordering, and you are safe from the risk!
The frustration level of many folks around here, is pretty high.
Most of the folks that backed themselves into a corner by selling
thier main shooting rigs have gotten thier MarkII's already.
WRONG. Canon will NOTgive the service manual to their repair stations that service their other cameras. They have decided to do all repairs at factory service center. So, any repairs, regardless of which authorized dealer it is bought from, will only be serviced by Canon. CDW and DELL will exchange defective units like B&H, etc. So the only differnce is that we might wait a few more days AND HAVE MORE $$$ TO PAY OUR BILLS WITH.
That's funny!
well. And as long as I have a chance to get them... Well, I have
already explained. I am not sure if you are suggesting that, in
order to be a Pro, you need to pay the highest price, for
everything... That, to me, does not look like a sound business
principle to operate upon.
I guess you just admitted your level of photography.Yeah we'll wait for the real pros
None of which contribute any more to your income that can be achieved by the 10d. But you earned (@ $4500) the bragging rights to overpaying for your needs & level of expertise.
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