I think I have a flash problem with my S7K

ssab · Apr 24, 2004

Guilherme Orcutt said:
ssab said:

On the 1st shot [which isn't that much underexposed] the slight
underexposure is probably due to the seat cushion being nearer to
the camera than the parrot. The shot with the tube is well under
but though it shouldn't happen it does. Seems Fuji just didn't
notice this problem [ or ignored it ] when they designed the 602 [
not sure if 6900 has same prob] and it's carried over to the 7000.
Looks to me like your camera is OK apart from the design flaw with
a tube attached.

Click to expand...

Yes, maybe the camera is OK but the results of shooting with the
inbuilt flash are UNPREDICTABLE. There is no TTL hotshoe so a high
end external flash is a must to have well exposed pictures. I just
don't think the inbuilt flash is trusty. Tale a look at this 2
histograms.
The first is from the "without tube / without tape"
It seems indeed underexposed.

This one is from the "without tube / with tape"
This one seems more balanced to me.

Thanks for your comments.
Regards,
Guilherme

The without tube-with tape one looks over exposed to me, the highlights on the bottom part of the ornament are blown. When you check the histogram for it look at the individual colour channels as well instead of just the luminousity. When looking at histograms you have to take into account the subject eg a photo of a black dog should have most info towards the left and if you set exposure to put the bulk in the centre you will end up with an over exposed [ grey ] dog.

The one without the tube/tape looks fine. The front of the cushion looks a bit over exposed as it's nearer the flash. The back/ornament looks a bit under as the flash has shut off a bit too soon due to the light reflected from the seat cushion. So it's done a fair job of lighting two objects at different distances.

jason.m.c · Apr 24, 2004

not sure if this is any use to you but im using s7000 with fuji adapter so i tried a couple of shots with the light off but the light was on in the kitchen so it wasnt very bright at all left the camera settings all on auto heres the result
http://www.pbase.com/jason_m_c/test

i didnt find much difference at all very very slightly in histogram in adobe photoshop 7 if theres anything else i can test let me know

Guilherme Orcutt said:
Jay S. said:

Guilherme,
Well, just to my eye, the two with the tape look a little
overexposed. I used the tape trick for a bit before working on the
tubes. I'm not quite sure how "under" the first image is. What
does an image look like at +0.3 and +0.6... I don't know if you
can create a set of three and see what the histograms look like.
These would be with the tube. I used PS to compare #'s, but didn't
try this on a histogram "graph" basis...

Click to expand...

Thanks Jay, I'll try the shots tomorow morning without any tape and
post the results here.
Thanks a lot!
BTW, I didn't notice before that was you that made the experiments
with the tubes. Thanks for that.
Regards,
Guilherme

Jeff Kohn · Apr 24, 2004

Histogram doesn't always tell the full story, some scenes by there very nature will have mostly mid-tones or mostly darker tones, etc. Not knowing anything about the scenes and just looking at your historgrams, yes the without tube/with tape looks like a better exposed histogram. But looking at the actual picture the color looks washed out and too me it's over-exposed. And really, the first shot has a pretty decent histogram too. Yes it's skewed a bit towards the darker end of the scale but it's not like there's huge amounts of black clipping like you'd see in a truly underexposed picture.

I think if you re-shot from an angle where the front part of the cushion wasn't so close to the camera the overall frame would be more evenly exposed for the without tube/without tape.

*K · Apr 25, 2004

Guilherme Orcutt said:
Guilherme Orcutt wrote:
Blah, blah

Check the posting rules please: New posters - Before you ask a question please check to see if someone else has asked it before, ask our search engine first.

If you do you will see that all of this has been discussed before. Even as far back as 2002! Look here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=4028145

--
F U J I 6 0 2 Z
NZ Auckland

Guilherme Orcutt · Apr 25, 2004

[B] K said:
Blah, blah

K*, Indeed I did the search, but what I have found was a thread about covering the flash sensor of a 602. Well, sorry for my ignorance on Fuji cameras, now I know I'm wrong, but I thought that the S7K and the 602 ware different cameras, and probably they could suffer from different problems, anyway, sorry if I offended you and the forum rules.
Best regards and thanks for the support.
Guilherme[/B]

Guilherme Orcutt · Apr 25, 2004

ssab said:
The without tube-with tape one looks over exposed to me, the
highlights on the bottom part of the ornament are blown. When you
check the histogram for it look at the individual colour channels
as well instead of just the luminousity. When looking at histograms
you have to take into account the subject eg a photo of a black dog
should have most info towards the left and if you set exposure to
put the bulk in the centre you will end up with an over exposed [
grey ] dog.
The one without the tube/tape looks fine. The front of the cushion
looks a bit over exposed as it's nearer the flash. The
back/ornament looks a bit under as the flash has shut off a bit too
soon due to the light reflected from the seat cushion. So it's done
a fair job of lighting two objects at different distances.

I think you are right. I just take too many underexposed flash shoots, lots of then unusable, so I thought that there could be a problem, but know I think it's just a matter of knowing better how this thing works.
Thanks a lot mate.
Guilherme

Guilherme Orcutt · Apr 25, 2004

Jeff Kohn said:
Histogram doesn't always tell the full story, some scenes by there
very nature will have mostly mid-tones or mostly darker tones, etc.
Not knowing anything about the scenes and just looking at your
historgrams, yes the without tube/with tape looks like a better
exposed histogram.

I think this is all about photography theory and experience, I have neither. So it's time to learn some more (I'm already learning).
Thanks a lot Jeff.
Regards,
Guilherme

Jay S. · Apr 25, 2004

Jason,

Interesting... The without filter image is ever so slighly brighter according to PS, but they were pointed a little different. One result from all the testing I did was that a +0.3 flash adjustment when using the tube brought it pretty much right in line.... What was the distance to to your object???

Jay S.

jason.m.c said:
Guilherme Orcutt said:

Jay S. said:

Guilherme,
Well, just to my eye, the two with the tape look a little
overexposed. I used the tape trick for a bit before working on the
tubes. I'm not quite sure how "under" the first image is. What
does an image look like at +0.3 and +0.6... I don't know if you
can create a set of three and see what the histograms look like.
These would be with the tube. I used PS to compare #'s, but didn't
try this on a histogram "graph" basis...

Click to expand...

Thanks Jay, I'll try the shots tomorow morning without any tape and
post the results here.
Thanks a lot!
BTW, I didn't notice before that was you that made the experiments
with the tubes. Thanks for that.
Regards,
Guilherme

Click to expand...

--
Jay S.
Fuji 6900 / 7000
http://www.pbase.com/jay_s

jkirk@oz · Apr 25, 2004

Guilherme Orcutt said:
Guilherme Orcutt wrote:
.... sorry if I offended you and the forum rules.

Naaaa, just (special) K

Don't even worry about it, please post as often as you like. Good to see he's back to his old tricks

Guilherme Orcutt said:
Best regards and thanks for the support.

Don't run off because of 1 dumb reply

JKirk

Jay S. · Apr 25, 2004

K,

True, it has been posted before, and I've used that in my discussions with Fuji here in the U.S. My bet is that this is on the S20 as well. We recently though have taken to the point of measurements, and there is a great amount of variance by extension tube, and the finish on it (adding chalkboard paint can make a huge difference on some). See the following post...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=8348519

Jay S.

[B] K said:
*K said:

Guilherme Orcutt wrote:
Blah, blah

Click to expand...

Check the posting rules please: New posters - Before you ask a
question please check to see if someone else has asked it before,
ask our search engine first.
If you do you will see that all of this has been discussed before.
Even as far back as 2002! Look here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=4028145

--
F U J I 6 0 2 Z
NZ Auckland

--
Jay S.
Fuji 6900 / 7000
http://www.pbase.com/jay_s [/B]

Guilherme Orcutt · Apr 25, 2004

jason.m.c said:
not sure if this is any use to you but im using s7000 with fuji
adapter so i tried a couple of shots with the light off but the
light was on in the kitchen so it wasnt very bright at all left the
camera settings all on auto heres the result
http://www.pbase.com/jason_m_c/test
i didnt find much difference at all very very slightly in histogram
in adobe photoshop 7 if theres anything else i can test let me know

Thanks for your try Jason. Both pictures are very similar. I just can't understand or explain this.
Regards,
Guilherme

Guilherme Orcutt · Apr 25, 2004

Hi Captain,

jkirk@oz said:
Don't run off because of 1 dumb reply
JKirk

You can bet I wont. This forum is full of great and knowledgeful people, and many inspiring shots. It's good to know a place like this, where can help and ask for help without fear.
Thanks.
Regards,
Guilherme

M. Hebing · Apr 25, 2004

Guilherme Orcutt said:
Very strange behavior.

You think? My guess is that the sensor is more sensitive than we imagine.

If you hold a flashlight against your hand, you'll see light coming out at all sides. Human flesh guides the light outward. The sensor will pick this up and interpret this as a very strong flash and immediatly turns it down.

Don't forget the flashlight is very strong, even with the very small flashlight of the 602/S7k.

Maybe Fuji can put the sensor a bit further away from the flash in the next models ?

Marco

*K · Apr 26, 2004

Guilherme Orcutt said:
Guilherme Orcutt wrote:
You can bet I wont. This forum is full of great and knowledgeful
people, and many inspiring shots. It's good to know a place like
this, where can help and ask for help without fear.

Whether its a 602 or a 7000, if you bother to read the prior posts you will see that the conclusions & deductions are the same. Its astounding that a whole day's discussion has gone on as a mirror time warp to what has been discussed & stated before. There are indeed many interesting new topics & ideas being bandied about here by clever and enthusiastic people. And that's what is needed. Not the same old rote. Best try & lift your game.

--
F U J I 6 0 2 Z
NZ Auckland

jason.m.c · Apr 26, 2004

They wee both roughly about 7.5 feet away sorry they were slightly different angles but i was on a swivel chairbut the chair stayed at the same distance i did not move the chair ill get the pod and do it again later ,sorry about the pics dissapearing now but i only have a temp pbase account and i ran out of space should be upgrading soon

Jay S. said:
Jay S.

jason.m.c said:

Guilherme Orcutt said:

Jay S. said:

Guilherme,
Well, just to my eye, the two with the tape look a little
overexposed. I used the tape trick for a bit before working on the
tubes. I'm not quite sure how "under" the first image is. What
does an image look like at +0.3 and +0.6... I don't know if you
can create a set of three and see what the histograms look like.
These would be with the tube. I used PS to compare #'s, but didn't
try this on a histogram "graph" basis...

Click to expand...

Thanks Jay, I'll try the shots tomorow morning without any tape and
post the results here.
Thanks a lot!
BTW, I didn't notice before that was you that made the experiments
with the tubes. Thanks for that.
Regards,
Guilherme

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Jay S.
Fuji 6900 / 7000
http://www.pbase.com/jay_s

--
I just keep click click clicking away

Search

I think I have a flash problem with my S7K

ssab

Senior Member

jason.m.c

Well-known member

Jeff Kohn

Senior Member

*K

Well-known member

Guilherme Orcutt

Senior Member

Guilherme Orcutt

Senior Member

Guilherme Orcutt

Senior Member

Jay S.

Senior Member

jkirk@oz

Senior Member

Jay S.

Senior Member

Guilherme Orcutt

Senior Member

Guilherme Orcutt

Senior Member

M. Hebing

Well-known member

*K

Well-known member

jason.m.c

Well-known member

Similar threads

Keyboard shortcuts