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lets try this one ... (mk2 sample)

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sebastian_g

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picture link :



lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.

I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
 
Exactly where did you expect to see more detail?

If you focus on something which is pretty featureless, the picture is not going to show many features.
I'd save your money and get a 717!
sebastian_g said:
lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one
now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.
I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I
am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is
in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my
fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
 
David Martin said:
Exactly where did you expect to see more detail?
If you focus on something which is pretty featureless, the picture
is not going to show many features.
I'd save your money and get a 717!
Click to expand...
Or the pro1 is supposed to be the same in image quality I believe ;)
 
According to Reichmann, everything has the same image quality, if you only squint hard enough!(G)
Gotya said:
David Martin said:
Exactly where did you expect to see more detail?
If you focus on something which is pretty featureless, the picture
is not going to show many features.
I'd save your money and get a 717!
Click to expand...
Or the pro1 is supposed to be the same in image quality I believe ;)
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
 
I'm quite serious, if you are interested in examining a picture for detail, take one such as a landscape which offers suitable detail for you to check it out.
sebastian_g said:
lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one
now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.
I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I
am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is
in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my
fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
 
Really you dont see that picture is smooth and flat?
Pictures below I took with 10d - aren't they crisper and more dynamic???

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=262433

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=208488

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Gotya said:
David Martin said:
Exactly where did you expect to see more detail?
If you focus on something which is pretty featureless, the picture
is not going to show many features.
I'd save your money and get a 717!
Click to expand...
Or the pro1 is supposed to be the same in image quality I believe ;)
Click to expand...
 
Really you dont see that picture is smooth and flat?
Pictures below I took with 10d - aren't they crisper and more dynamic???

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=262433

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=208488

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
David Martin said:
sebastian_g said:
lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one
now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.
I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I
am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is
in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my
fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
Click to expand...
 
How on earth can you judge it from the picture you took with the 1D2?
Most of it's a picture of a picture, for goodness sake!

Nice pics on the 10D, BTW, but there are too many variabilities in what your settings may have been, contrast etc, people have even posted here where they have inadvertently shot in Adobe and not converted it before putting it on the web.

It's more or less impossible I would have thought, to tell much at all from the sample you have chosen, even with full info on the settings you had.
sebastian_g said:
best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Gotya said:
David Martin said:
Exactly where did you expect to see more detail?
If you focus on something which is pretty featureless, the picture
is not going to show many features.
I'd save your money and get a 717!
Click to expand...
Or the pro1 is supposed to be the same in image quality I believe ;)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
 
Your comparison images show little resemblence to one another. Please, shoot the same scene with both cameras, then make your comparison.
sigh
sebastian_g said:
http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=262433

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=208488

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
David Martin said:
sebastian_g said:
lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one
now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.
I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I
am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is
in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my
fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--

 
Sebastian,

The images I have seen taken with this camera under controlled conditions look very good with much more detail than my 1D. It does appear that Canon has used an AA filter that is somewhere between the 1Ds and the 10D and this is a good thing IMO.

If you look at this image, you will notice a few things:

1) It could use 1/3 to 2/3 more light IMO.

2) It has absolutly no sharpening artifacts. Not a one.

The second point is the crucial one. Canon has choosen to keep digital sharpening VERY low on the Mk II allowing you to set it as you want/need. If you have the $$$ (This would be a VERY very expensive "toy" in Poland I suspect), buy this cam. It will last years and will have outstanding image quality even when it is obsolete. It will take the full line of Canon lenses as well.

I also believe that some of the "sharpness" issues are with the Canon DPP software. Don't have much info on this except it does have some colored artifacts and other traits.

However, it is a camera that will require you to really learn it to use. A DSLR is not "easier".

If you want good looking out of camera pictures with little to no post work, look at getting a good P&S camera.

Steven
sebastian_g said:
picture link : http://www.studios.pl/mk2/gr4p0533.jpg
lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one
now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.
I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I
am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is
in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my
fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
--
---
New and Updated!!!
Fall 2003: http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/image_a_week
Winter 2004: http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/animage_a_week_winter
 
Those pictures are pretty small. Is your 10d only .5 megapixel or are you comparing resize photos to unresized photos?
sebastian_g said:
http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=262433

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=208488

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
David Martin said:
sebastian_g said:
lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one
now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.
I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I
am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is
in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my
fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I took a lot of pictures with 10d, I know that camera and I think I get quite nice results with it (links in message above).
but now...

I know that 1Ds is well known for its quality - if it would be a little faster I would buy 1Ds but - in that case MarkII is marvellous!!!

so I would like to be sure that I will get the same (or better better results) like from 10d and have a lot of comfort with better AF, speed, and some more data in picture.

I think that it is better to wait for detailed review and buy it 1 month later :)))

regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Steven Noyes said:
The images I have seen taken with this camera under controlled
conditions look very good with much more detail than my 1D. It
does appear that Canon has used an AA filter that is somewhere
between the 1Ds and the 10D and this is a good thing IMO.

If you look at this image, you will notice a few things:

1) It could use 1/3 to 2/3 more light IMO.

2) It has absolutly no sharpening artifacts. Not a one.

The second point is the crucial one. Canon has choosen to keep
digital sharpening VERY low on the Mk II allowing you to set it as
you want/need. If you have the $$$ (This would be a VERY very
expensive "toy" in Poland I suspect), buy this cam. It will last
years and will have outstanding image quality even when it is
obsolete. It will take the full line of Canon lenses as well.

I also believe that some of the "sharpness" issues are with the
Canon DPP software. Don't have much info on this except it does
have some colored artifacts and other traits.

However, it is a camera that will require you to really learn it to
use. A DSLR is not "easier".

If you want good looking out of camera pictures with little to no
post work, look at getting a good P&S camera.

Steven
sebastian_g said:
picture link : http://www.studios.pl/mk2/gr4p0533.jpg
lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one
now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.
I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I
am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is
in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my
fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
--
---
New and Updated!!!
Fall 2003: http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/image_a_week
Winter 2004: http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/animage_a_week_winter
Click to expand...
 
Let's compare apples to apples:

MarkII image resized to 800x533



Your 10d image resized to 680x462


sebastian_g said:
http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=262433

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=208488

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
David Martin said:
sebastian_g said:
lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one
now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.
I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I
am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is
in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my
fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Both pictures are a good example of DOF (and both are very nice BTW). The cat is crisp with great bokeh. The little girl, her face and body are in focus, her hand is not - another good DOF example.

How were these shot? Were they "processed raws" or out-of-camera jpg's? If jpg, is there any in camera sharpening going on? If raw, did you sharpen when processing out?

The landscape you posted would likely be typical for either camera. I suspect you shot this jpg with no in camera sharpening. I suspect the default in camera sharpening for the MarkII is "weaker" than the default setting for the 10D, allowing the pro more latitude in adjustments.

I stopped shooting jpg in my 10D after about 100 exposures, so I've never messed with in camera settings. I suspect I'll do the same with my MarkII. I DO sharpen in Capture1 however (which apparantly most others do not, preferring to use USM in PS7/PSCS or another sharpening tool.

The photo you posted USM's up quite nicely, leading me to believe that shooting jpg out of the camera without raising the sharpening in-cam is going to be a little "weak". Maybe try the same shot, with different levels of in-camera sharpening set, and see what kind of results you get.

I would think overall, that you would still be much happier with the features of the MarkII, which overcome many of the 10D's shortcomings (which are obviously not BAD), but since it is a consumer model camera - the pro series cameras will tend to have much better feature sets than the 10D.

Not only because I eagerly await MY MarkII, would I suggest if you can AFFORD the MarkII and they're not going to take advantage of you price-wise, that after you learn how to tweak the in-camera settings for optimum jpg results you will be very happy with the output.

I do not plan on ever using jpg. I enjoy the flexibility and higher quality of the RAW workflow (even though it requires more work) and it's ability to rescue borderline shots, and leave with with ultra-high quality results. Plus my "control issues" force me to prefer MY workflow, over what Canon puts in-camera for me - I get to make my decisions, not the camera.

Rick
sebastian_g said:
Really you dont see that picture is smooth and flat?
Pictures below I took with 10d - aren't they crisper and more
dynamic???

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=262433

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=208488

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
 
I am definetly not comparing them to the picture from MkII.

I just took few hundreds of test pictures with MkII and I dont like them too much. I am trying to determine where is the point.
The only word I can describe them - is flat...

I used 24-70, 16-35, 100-400 L lenses and only one picture is not too flat me... (below)

(just to be more precise I took more than 20 thounsand of pictures with d-cameras for few years some of them are good, and better than good - not in my opinion :))) )

Sebastian Gorgol


Daffy_Duck said:
sebastian_g said:
http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=262433

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=208488

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
David Martin said:
sebastian_g said:
lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one
now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.
I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I
am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is
in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my
fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
The point is that after that few pictures I took with MkII I wasnt sure that if South Africa (examples from my 10d) if I would have MkII in place of 10d I would have better results in the same situation.
Most of you make me sure of that...

So either you are connected with Canon co. or you see more in my test pictures than I do :))))
I am close to bet my 5 grand$ to check it... :))))

best regards
Sebastian
RickS said:
How were these shot? Were they "processed raws" or out-of-camera
jpg's? If jpg, is there any in camera sharpening going on? If
raw, did you sharpen when processing out?

The landscape you posted would likely be typical for either camera.
I suspect you shot this jpg with no in camera sharpening. I
suspect the default in camera sharpening for the MarkII is "weaker"
than the default setting for the 10D, allowing the pro more
latitude in adjustments.

I stopped shooting jpg in my 10D after about 100 exposures, so I've
never messed with in camera settings. I suspect I'll do the same
with my MarkII. I DO sharpen in Capture1 however (which apparantly
most others do not, preferring to use USM in PS7/PSCS or another
sharpening tool.

The photo you posted USM's up quite nicely, leading me to believe
that shooting jpg out of the camera without raising the sharpening
in-cam is going to be a little "weak". Maybe try the same shot,
with different levels of in-camera sharpening set, and see what
kind of results you get.

I would think overall, that you would still be much happier with
the features of the MarkII, which overcome many of the 10D's
shortcomings (which are obviously not BAD), but since it is a
consumer model camera - the pro series cameras will tend to have
much better feature sets than the 10D.

Not only because I eagerly await MY MarkII, would I suggest if you
can AFFORD the MarkII and they're not going to take advantage of
you price-wise, that after you learn how to tweak the in-camera
settings for optimum jpg results you will be very happy with the
output.

I do not plan on ever using jpg. I enjoy the flexibility and
higher quality of the RAW workflow (even though it requires more
work) and it's ability to rescue borderline shots, and leave with
with ultra-high quality results. Plus my "control issues" force me
to prefer MY workflow, over what Canon puts in-camera for me - I
get to make my decisions, not the camera.

Rick
sebastian_g said:
Really you dont see that picture is smooth and flat?
Pictures below I took with 10d - aren't they crisper and more
dynamic???

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=262433

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=208488

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Have you tried adjusting the saturation of the images you took? I believe they seem flat because they are flat...without some processing. Thanks for posting this one. Looks very good to me.
sebastian_g said:
Sebastian Gorgol


Daffy_Duck said:
sebastian_g said:
http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=262433

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=208488

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
David Martin said:
sebastian_g said:
lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one
now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.
I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I
am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is
in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my
fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I tried some levels adjusting - auto levels works very similar on 10d files - so I think Canon selects similar color range (pictures are a little grey in my opinion).
I shoot on portraits and standart color adjustment in camera.

I tried not to tweak camera settings too much - I think it doesnt make sense - is is better to use PS for that reason.

Sebastian
Daffy_Duck said:
sebastian_g said:
Sebastian Gorgol


Daffy_Duck said:
sebastian_g said:
http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=262433

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=208488

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
David Martin said:
sebastian_g said:
lens 24-70 f2,8
shutter: 1/320sec.
focal lenght: 24mm
aperture : f/9,0

focusing points are just in the middle of the picture

DOF is GREAT :))) so..
in my opinion picture is too smooth, not detailed as I expected -
maybe I am expecting too much?

sorry for my lot of threads but I tried MkII - it is the only one
now in Poland, I can buy it but... I am not sure yet.
I love that camera, for speed, software, autofocus, response but I
am not too satisfied in results - I know that probably the issue is
in photographer - so when you make me sure that everytime it is my
fault not camera's I will feel free to buy it tomorrow :))))))))))))

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
a few things.

The 10D has more in camera processing than the pro camera at its lowest processing setting. This means the 1 series is going to require more work.

Also, you looking at an image at 100% versus a highly downsized image, that will inherently give it more "POP".

I took a look at the first image in PS and I agree it seems flat until worked on. The color needed a bit of work as well as shapening. And I can honestly say it added a lot of pop to the image making it quite nice.

One last thing, the most easily seen part of the image is itself a very much enlarged picture. This certainly does not have the desired detail to make a great judgement call!

I think in a little while you'll be very happy with the results of this camera but you'll have growing pains in the begining.

Scott
sebastian_g said:
best regards
Sebastian
RickS said:
How were these shot? Were they "processed raws" or out-of-camera
jpg's? If jpg, is there any in camera sharpening going on? If
raw, did you sharpen when processing out?

The landscape you posted would likely be typical for either camera.
I suspect you shot this jpg with no in camera sharpening. I
suspect the default in camera sharpening for the MarkII is "weaker"
than the default setting for the 10D, allowing the pro more
latitude in adjustments.

I stopped shooting jpg in my 10D after about 100 exposures, so I've
never messed with in camera settings. I suspect I'll do the same
with my MarkII. I DO sharpen in Capture1 however (which apparantly
most others do not, preferring to use USM in PS7/PSCS or another
sharpening tool.

The photo you posted USM's up quite nicely, leading me to believe
that shooting jpg out of the camera without raising the sharpening
in-cam is going to be a little "weak". Maybe try the same shot,
with different levels of in-camera sharpening set, and see what
kind of results you get.

I would think overall, that you would still be much happier with
the features of the MarkII, which overcome many of the 10D's
shortcomings (which are obviously not BAD), but since it is a
consumer model camera - the pro series cameras will tend to have
much better feature sets than the 10D.

Not only because I eagerly await MY MarkII, would I suggest if you
can AFFORD the MarkII and they're not going to take advantage of
you price-wise, that after you learn how to tweak the in-camera
settings for optimum jpg results you will be very happy with the
output.

I do not plan on ever using jpg. I enjoy the flexibility and
higher quality of the RAW workflow (even though it requires more
work) and it's ability to rescue borderline shots, and leave with
with ultra-high quality results. Plus my "control issues" force me
to prefer MY workflow, over what Canon puts in-camera for me - I
get to make my decisions, not the camera.

Rick
sebastian_g said:
Really you dont see that picture is smooth and flat?
Pictures below I took with 10d - aren't they crisper and more
dynamic???

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=262433

http://www.plfoto.com/zdjecie.php?picture=208488

best regards,
Sebastian Gorgol
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/sjhugoose
 
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