Product Shot advice...

DWBell · Apr 10, 2004

Hi all,

I haven't posted here before but have lurked around trying to learn as I go. I would appreciate it if you could give a critique on the following shot.

The set up is pretty crude;

and as I haven't received my 60cm flash cable to get the Metz off the hotshoe yet (grrr) I'm stuck with it camera mounted. I was aiming to bounce a fair amount of the light around and to the back off the model. Flash was on maximum output.

I'm not doing this to sell models or anything just trying to learn more about lighting in a controlled environment. (Although it is the worlds most beautiful racing car!) The subject was chosen mainly because of it's relative size with regards my shooting space.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated, positive or negative.
--
Kind Regards
DWBell

julian porter · Apr 10, 2004

DWBell said:
Hi all,

I haven't posted here before but have lurked around trying to learn
as I go. I would appreciate it if you could give a critique on the
following shot.

The set up is pretty crude;

and as I haven't received my 60cm flash cable to get the Metz off
the hotshoe yet (grrr) I'm stuck with it camera mounted. I was
aiming to bounce a fair amount of the light around and to the back
off the model. Flash was on maximum output.

I'm not doing this to sell models or anything just trying to learn
more about lighting in a controlled environment. (Although it is
the worlds most beautiful racing car!) The subject was chosen
mainly because of it's relative size with regards my shooting space.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated, positive or negative.
--
Kind Regards
DWBell

Well im no Pro but to me this looks fantastic , trully brilliant and yes you could sell models with shots like this

Great work & a nice setup

Jules
--

Please check out my site and if you have a comment please visit my guestbook . http://www.julianporter.co.uk

Julian Porter Southampton UK
Sony P9 & 717 and Canon 300D

Barrie Davis · Apr 10, 2004

DWBell said:
Hi all,

I haven't posted here before but have lurked around trying to learn
as I go. I would appreciate it if you could give a critique on the
following shot.

The set up is pretty crude;

and as I haven't received my 60cm flash cable to get the Metz off
the hotshoe yet (grrr) I'm stuck with it camera mounted. I was
aiming to bounce a fair amount of the light around and to the back
off the model. Flash was on maximum output.

I'm not doing this to sell models or anything just trying to learn
more about lighting in a controlled environment. (Although it is
the worlds most beautiful racing car!) The subject was chosen
mainly because of it's relative size with regards my shooting space.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated, positive or negative.
--
Kind Regards
DWBell

--
Hi Mr(?) Bell,

I think you have produced an extremely competant image from a rather limited setup. Congratulations.

However, it doesn't really count as a controlled lighting environment, if you have only one position for the lights available. You end up shooting subjects which are suitable for the setup you have, rather than adapting the setup to suit the subject.

So, whilst this shot is an undoubted success, (about the best product shot I have ever seen from flash on camera!) you will only learn how the positioning of lights alters the effects, when you CAN move them. The considered positioning of the light sources is, after all, the principle tool of the product photographer.

If I were you I would hang on 'till there is more you can do.

Regards,
Baz

DWBell · Apr 10, 2004

Thanks for your kind words. It's nice to get of the score sheet with a positive one!

Will be commenting on your Prom portrait over at your thread soon.
Thanks again.

julian porter said:
Well im no Pro but to me this looks fantastic , trully brilliant
and yes you could sell models with shots like this

Great work & a nice setup

Jules

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

DWBell · Apr 10, 2004

Barrie Davis said:
Hi Mr(?) Bell,

I think you have produced an extremely competant image from a
rather limited setup. Congratulations.

Thankyou. (And yes, it's Mr - know any women with a fascination for 1968 GP cars? ;-)

Barrie Davis said:
However, it doesn't really count as a controlled lighting
environment, if you have only one position for the lights
available. You end up shooting subjects which are suitable for the
setup you have, rather than adapting the setup to suit the subject.

Quite true. A valid point, thanks for that.

Barrie Davis said:
So, whilst this shot is an undoubted success, (about the best
product shot I have ever seen from flash on camera!) you will only

Woah - thanks.

Barrie Davis said:
learn how the positioning of lights alters the effects, when you
CAN move them. The considered positioning of the light sources is,
after all, the principle tool of the product photographer.

If I were you I would hang on 'till there is more you can do.

Well there's the thing you see - the chord was supposed to be here today - BUT it didn't arrive! I will still only have one single light source when the chord arrives though, just I'll have the ability to position it better (within a 60cm "leash" of the camera). So would you advise (when it arrives) picking lots of different coloured and textured items and using the single source with reflected light (my white card) on the unlit side to get a feel for lighting. Ideally I'd like to go one step at a time you see, not go straight for a 5 head and umbrella and whatever else is available kit but not know what to do with it!

Barrie Davis said:
Regards,
Baz

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

Barrie Davis · Apr 10, 2004

DWBell said:
DWBell said:

Hi Mr(?) Bell,

I think you have produced an extremely competant image from a
rather limited setup. Congratulations.

Click to expand...

Thankyou. (And yes, it's Mr - know any women with a fascination for
1968 GP cars? ;-)

DWBell said:

However, it doesn't really count as a controlled lighting
environment, if you have only one position for the lights
available. You end up shooting subjects which are suitable for the
setup you have, rather than adapting the setup to suit the subject.

Click to expand...

Quite true. A valid point, thanks for that.

DWBell said:

So, whilst this shot is an undoubted success, (about the best
product shot I have ever seen from flash on camera!) you will only

Click to expand...

Woah - thanks.

DWBell said:

learn how the positioning of lights alters the effects, when you
CAN move them. The considered positioning of the light sources is,
after all, the principle tool of the product photographer.

If I were you I would hang on 'till there is more you can do.

Click to expand...

Well there's the thing you see - the chord was supposed to be here
today - BUT it didn't arrive! I will still only have one single
light source when the chord arrives though, just I'll have the
ability to position it better (within a 60cm "leash" of the
camera). So would you advise (when it arrives) picking lots of
different coloured and textured items and using the single source
with reflected light (my white card) on the unlit side to get a
feel for lighting. Ideally I'd like to go one step at a time you
see, not go straight for a 5 head and umbrella and whatever else is
available kit but not know what to do with it!

DWBell said:

Regards,
Baz

Click to expand...

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

--

What you propose to do is entirely valid. I wish MORE people would learn how to position one light source, and a few reflectors, before moving on to more complex setups. It is undoubtedly the best way to get your head round how lighting works......

......after all, The World is lit with just the one lightsource, and a few clouds for reflectors.

Regards,
Baz

LorenDJones · Apr 10, 2004

...which all pros use!

Nice job.

DWBell · Apr 10, 2004

Yeh, I need to give it a catchy name like softbox, or lighting tent or something you know - like they say, its 75% Marketing, 20% begging and 5% taking pictures!

Thanks for taking time to comment.

LorenDJones said:
...which all pros use! Nice job.

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

Fred Klaiss · Apr 10, 2004

DWBell said:
DWBell wrote:
And yes, it's Mr - know any women with a fascination for
1968 GP cars?>

Yes, my sister. We both were at Watkins Glen in 1968 and saw Jimmy Clark run that Lotus. Actually, she's been to more CART races (has no use for IndyCars) in recent years than I have. I'm now looking at the Michael Turner poster for the 1968 Glen Formula 1 Grand Prix framed on the wall behind my computer. Call your technique "free-range lighting." It's trendy and you can sell your lighting tips to others over the internet.

DWBell · Apr 10, 2004

...doesn't describe my feelings! Those were the days - and I was a mere minus6 years old! I have only lived them through history books and VHS tapes. The two people I'll track down after seeing St Peter are Jimmy and Colin Chapman.

Cheers to you and your sister.

Fred Klaiss said:
Fred Klaiss said:

DWBell wrote:
And yes, it's Mr - know any women with a fascination for
1968 GP cars?>

Click to expand...

Yes, my sister. We both were at Watkins Glen in 1968 and saw Jimmy
Clark run that Lotus. Actually, she's been to more CART races (has
no use for IndyCars) in recent years than I have. I'm now looking
at the Michael Turner poster for the 1968 Glen Formula 1 Grand Prix
framed on the wall behind my computer. Call your technique
"free-range lighting." It's trendy and you can sell your lighting
tips to others over the internet.

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

DWBell · Apr 11, 2004

So day 2 then,

I've got the flash off the camera, made a tube around the flash head (rolled paper) to give more direction and put some semi transparent film over the tube end to diffuse the light emitted.

Set the camera to underexpose at 3sec shutter speed and during that 3 secs hand held the flash and pointed the light in the direction required and manually tripped the unit.

The result is...

It's lost the "catalogue look" I know but I was looking for more drama.

Comments and critiques as always encouraged (otherwise I wouldn't be posting right?

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

Jim Campbell · Apr 11, 2004

setup for the shot it would be interesting to see what would happen if you added a front reflector to bounce some light back into the car. You would have to cut a hole in the reflector for the flash and lens but I think the additional lighting would open to shot up some more.

DWBell said:
Hi all,

I haven't posted here before but have lurked around trying to learn
as I go. I would appreciate it if you could give a critique on the
following shot.

The set up is pretty crude;

and as I haven't received my 60cm flash cable to get the Metz off
the hotshoe yet (grrr) I'm stuck with it camera mounted. I was
aiming to bounce a fair amount of the light around and to the back
off the model. Flash was on maximum output.

I'm not doing this to sell models or anything just trying to learn
more about lighting in a controlled environment. (Although it is
the worlds most beautiful racing car!) The subject was chosen
mainly because of it's relative size with regards my shooting space.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated, positive or negative.
--
Kind Regards
DWBell

DWBell · Apr 11, 2004

I was thinking the same thing actually but for the 2nd shot - beacuse the flash tube is rear left and most of the light seems to spill right past the camera. You're right though, the first shot could use a few details pulling out on the near side too. Whcih do you prefer (from a lighting point of view, not from a "sell it on ebay" point of view)?

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Jim Campbell said:
setup for the shot it would be interesting to see what would happen
if you added a front reflector to bounce some light back into the
car. You would have to cut a hole in the reflector for the flash
and lens but I think the additional lighting would open to shot up
some more.

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

Adrian Tung · Apr 11, 2004

Your "tube" idea looks very interesting, I'll have to try that someday.

I like the side lighting effect, but I'm no expert so take my words for granted, LOL.... My suggestion to improve this shot would be to have a fill coming from camera direction or put a white reflector on the right to bounce some of the light back to the dark side as fill.

--
http://www.AdrianTung.com

DWBell · Apr 12, 2004

Yes, Jim mentioned this in the post below for the first picture and I was thinking the same as you for the second one. I realised that I can do some fill with the camera "pop up" flash (and now with the 300D hack firmware I can also adjust the strength of output

So now on Day3 I'll try this and other things and post the results later today.

Thankyou for taking the time to comment, much appreciated.

Adrian Tung said:
Your "tube" idea looks very interesting, I'll have to try that
someday.

I like the side lighting effect, but I'm no expert so take my words
for granted, LOL.... My suggestion to improve this shot would be to
have a fill coming from camera direction or put a white reflector
on the right to bounce some of the light back to the dark side as
fill.

--
http://www.AdrianTung.com

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

Jim Campbell · Apr 13, 2004

DWBell said:
Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Jim Campbell said:

setup for the shot it would be interesting to see what would happen
if you added a front reflector to bounce some light back into the
car. You would have to cut a hole in the reflector for the flash
and lens but I think the additional lighting would open to shot up
some more.

Click to expand...

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

DWBell · Apr 14, 2004

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

Duncan C · Apr 14, 2004

DWBell,

The first shot was pretty darn good.

I like the softer shadows on the second shot, but the lighting is too far to the back. The parts of the car that are facing the camera are look flat because they are mostly in shadow.

Try using your lighting tube, but aim it to hit the long side of the car that's facing the camera (from the right, in the second picture.) You might try adding a reflector on the other side for some fill. I think the second shot is a little underexposed. I'd brighten it by about 1/2 stop.

If you're going to be working with product shooting a lot, get yourself a hotshoe to PC connector adapter (if your camera doesn't have a PC sync connnector) and a sync cord, and a clamp based holder for your flash. That way you'll be able to place your flash where you want it. You might also think about a lightweight stand, so it's easier to place your light where you want it.

Duncan C
----

DWBell said:
Thanks for taking the time to comment.

Jim Campbell said:

setup for the shot it would be interesting to see what would happen
if you added a front reflector to bounce some light back into the
car. You would have to cut a hole in the reflector for the flash
and lens but I think the additional lighting would open to shot up
some more.

Click to expand...

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

--
dpreview and PBase supporter.

http://www.pbase.com/duncanc

DWBell · Apr 14, 2004

Thanks Duncan, appreciate the input. I've realised the importance of a little fill ight now. You're right, the near side portion of the car does look flat. I realised (too late) that although I was doing this all a bit on the fly I could have used the onboard flash as fill flash (maybe set to -1 F/C)! Doh! Oh well, it's all a good learning curve for next weekends efforts.

I've ordered a PC sync chord (I don't know about the adapter bit? Canon 300D - I asked at the shop and he didn't seem to think I need one?) and it was supposed to be available for that shoot, but you know how it is when you're really waiting for something huh? SO anyway, when it arrives I'll be able to clamp the light into place and then work on exposure and things more consistently I pressume.

Thanks again for taking the time to comment, I do appreciate your time.

PS - Cool name! ;-)

Duncan C said:
DWBell,

The first shot was pretty darn good.

I like the softer shadows on the second shot, but the lighting is
too far to the back. The parts of the car that are facing the
camera are look flat because they are mostly in shadow.

Try using your lighting tube, but aim it to hit the long side of
the car that's facing the camera (from the right, in the second
picture.) You might try adding a reflector on the other side for
some fill. I think the second shot is a little underexposed. I'd
brighten it by about 1/2 stop.

If you're going to be working with product shooting a lot, get
yourself a hotshoe to PC connector adapter (if your camera doesn't
have a PC sync connnector) and a sync cord, and a clamp based
holder for your flash. That way you'll be able to place your flash
where you want it. You might also think about a lightweight stand,
so it's easier to place your light where you want it.

--
Kind Regards
DWBell

Harrow · Apr 14, 2004

Love the shot. Your set-up has inspired me to have a go myself. You might be able to do play with sheets of aluminium foil to increase the bounce from various sides of your 'studio'. Not a criticism, just an idea of more things to experiment with. Agree that a little more fill on the near side of the nose might be good.

Regards,
Harrow.

P.S. To get the flash off the shoe without the cord, you could do this at night, turn all the lights off, and then fire the flash by hand with the shutter open.

DWBell said:
Hi all,

I haven't posted here before but have lurked around trying to learn
as I go. I would appreciate it if you could give a critique on the
following shot.

The set up is pretty crude;

and as I haven't received my 60cm flash cable to get the Metz off
the hotshoe yet (grrr) I'm stuck with it camera mounted. I was
aiming to bounce a fair amount of the light around and to the back
off the model. Flash was on maximum output.

I'm not doing this to sell models or anything just trying to learn
more about lighting in a controlled environment. (Although it is
the worlds most beautiful racing car!) The subject was chosen
mainly because of it's relative size with regards my shooting space.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated, positive or negative.
--
Kind Regards
DWBell

--
http://www.pbase.com/harrow

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