A2 Fpcus issues (again)

engbert · Apr 8, 2004

Andreas_F said:
Andreas_F said:

I have just returned from China, and took about 600 pictures with
the new A2 as its first real test. I am a bit concerned about this
focus issue. Here is an example:

100% crop:

Virtually every concern I have had about this camera so far has
ended up being attributable to user error or education, and I'm
hoping the same is true here. But I get photos like the above A
LOT. Any ideas?
And how does it happen that nothing is in focus? Nothing closest
to the camera, and not the furthest horizon?

Thanks,
Vance

Click to expand...

The shots were taken at wide angle and f7.1, which should provide excellent depth of field. The shutter speeds were 1/40 and 1/340, which would rule out motion blur.

The 2nd pic shows the best focus on the mans maroon jacket buttons. So the focus was too close, not too far, at least in that one.

Since both were at full wide angle, I would wonder if the Macro Switch had been accidentally engaged.

One of the many things I like about Dalibor's MRWFormat is the Exif reporting, which includes focus distance. And in the preview it shows a red square denoting the focus area - precisely if spot focus was used.

However, it only does that for RAW files. It might be worth taking a few RAW images to be able to use that. The free trial version might be adequate for this purpose. http://www.dalibor.cz

(I have urged him to make his excellent Makernote info for the Minolta cameras available for images other than RAW, and he replied that he might, sometime.)

These shots were taken 4 days ago. Have any further trials been done since? Do we have any follow up?

If the macro switch was not on, and there was no condensation, then I too would be wondering abotu a defective camera.

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Jerre · Apr 8, 2004

Minolta support has listed a problem on their sight on the A2 where people will bump or jar the focus wheel due to the way they are holding the camera and this will cause the camera to defocus the picture. This doesn't happen with the BP400 grip attached. The EXIF data should give a focus distance reading like "focus distant - close" to let you know where it was focused. The second picture looks like the focus was just infront of the gentleman with the purple jacket on.

fotog said:
Seems a little grainy to me for ISO 64. Maybe the camera just
hicupped? I have gotten some where I haven't been able to identify
the point of focus, but only a few. If I were you, I would send
every shot like that,(and just like that, the second seems to have
some foucs,) to Minolta. Ask them what happened.

Vancemac said:

fotog said:

Also, in the first pic in the square, what ISO are you shooting at?
Looks kinda noisy? This can take away sharpness.

Click to expand...

Believe it or not, ISO 64. Crazy, huh?

LeifShutter said:

I would still have to see more pics. DO you shoot on Auto? I like
to shoot on Apeture Priority, usually at 5.6 in order to get better
sharpness. The lens is sharper stopped down a bit, and is more
forgiving of small focusing errors.

Click to expand...

I was on Auto, except for locked in on ISO 64. For that pic,
aperature was F/7.1 (and 1/400).

Click to expand...

--

Beauty is in the eye of the Bee-holder...

--
http://www.garageglamour.com/portfolios/greatphotos

Vancemac · Apr 8, 2004

Jerre said:
Minolta support has listed a problem on their sight on the A2 where
people will bump or jar the focus wheel due to the way they are
holding the camera and this will cause the camera to defocus the
picture. This doesn't happen with the BP400 grip attached. The EXIF
data should give a focus distance reading like "focus distant -
close" to let you know where it was focused. The second picture
looks like the focus was just infront of the gentleman with the
purple jacket on.

1) By focus wheel, do you mean the inner most ring around the lens?
2) This would not be an issue, though, if DMF was set to OFF, correct?

Thanks,

Vance (hoping he doesn't have to return his second A2, but if he does, he will try a third time!)

Jerre · Apr 8, 2004

I don't have the post (it was a thread on this forum) but I believe it is an issue even with DMF off.. So don't bump the ring.

Vancemac said:
Jerre said:

Minolta support has listed a problem on their sight on the A2 where
people will bump or jar the focus wheel due to the way they are
holding the camera and this will cause the camera to defocus the
picture. This doesn't happen with the BP400 grip attached. The EXIF
data should give a focus distance reading like "focus distant -
close" to let you know where it was focused. The second picture
looks like the focus was just infront of the gentleman with the
purple jacket on.

Click to expand...

1) By focus wheel, do you mean the inner most ring around the lens?
2) This would not be an issue, though, if DMF was set to OFF,
correct?

Thanks,
Vance (hoping he doesn't have to return his second A2, but if he
does, he will try a third time!)

--
http://www.garageglamour.com/portfolios/greatphotos

Holger Schmitz · Apr 8, 2004

That seems to be exactly the problem I had with my A2. I observed somewhat blury pictures which were not sharp and details were long ways NOT what I expected from 8MP. My 4 MPx Oly D40Zoom does nicer photos and brighter colours - in direct comparison. But I must admit, I didn´t use any onboard processing with each camera. I tested for two days, was very frustrated and returned it on 25th of March. Today my local dealer told me the A2 arrived at KM Germany. Only several weeks to go. I´m not exactly happy at the very moment.

Sorry "Beeholder", since I don´t have webspace, I can´t post pictures. If interested, I can mail, but my images are the same as Vance´s, ok but not good.
Greetings Holger

Barrie Davis · Apr 8, 2004

Vancemac said:
Disclaimer: I LOVE this camera.

I have just returned from China, and took about 600 pictures with
the new A2 as its first real test. I am a bit concerned about this
focus issue. Here is an example:

100% crop:

Virtually every concern I have had about this camera so far has
ended up being attributable to user error or education, and I'm
hoping the same is true here. But I get photos like the above A
LOT. Any ideas?
And how does it happen that nothing is in focus? Nothing closest
to the camera, and not the furthest horizon?

Thanks,
Vance

--
Vance,

I am not surprised this shot is OOF. The target you have presented to the AF system in not sufficiently clear cut, IMO.

The system seeks high contrast vertical edges. The gentleman's face-edge would normally be selected by the camera AF. However it has not been selected, and I think there are a number of reasons.

1) The edge of the face is not that high in contrast.

2) In the distance is the monument pedestal, offering a very good vertical contrast to compete.

3) In between is the back of another figure moving rightwards, and away from camera.
4) Your subject is moving towards camera.

5) You are moving, I think. Certainly your camera is aimed high, which suggests a snatched shot.

I suggest the camera didn't know where the heck to focus. Just too many options. It is only, after all is said and done, AF (Auto Focus) not AI (Artificial Intelligence).

Are all your AF failures equally demanding of the camera's system?

Regards,
Baz

engbert · Apr 8, 2004

Member said:
These shots were taken 4 days ago. Have any further trials been
done since? Do we have any follow up?

If the macro switch was not on, and there was no condensation, then
I too would be wondering about a defective camera.

I just tried a shot from about 8 feet at f7.1 at 28mm with the Macro switch on. The focus was not sharp, but it would be good enough to explain what we see on the maroon jacket I mentioned above.

In the first shot, there was nothing even vaguely within the range of a macro switched lens, and so nothing is in focus.
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Dimage A2, TCON-17, Canon s50, Epsom 3200 scanner, HP 2500 printer
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Vancemac · Apr 8, 2004

Tremendous thanks for everyone's feedback. Extremely helpful, as always.

For those that are interested in continuing the detective work, I've started my China gallery here. I am just starting the post-processing routine, but here's a start:

http://vmac.smugmug.com/gallery/92790

Thanks,
Vance

engbert · Apr 8, 2004

Vancemac said:
Tremendous thanks for everyone's feedback. Extremely helpful, as
always.

For those that are interested in continuing the detective work,
I've started my China gallery here. I am just starting the
post-processing routine, but here's a start:

http://vmac.smugmug.com/gallery/92790

Thanks,
Vance

Thanks for showing us some more pix. It is good to see that many of them, as far as one can tell at those sizes, are perfectly sharp.

--
http://www.pbase.com/bertramm
pbase & dpreview supporter
Dimage A2, TCON-17, Canon s50, Epsom 3200 scanner, HP 2500 printer
Photoshop CS, Qimage, ACDSee, Neat Image

Vancemac · Apr 8, 2004

engbert said:
Thanks for showing us some more pix. It is good to see that many
of them, as far as one can tell at those sizes, are perfectly sharp.

Just fyi... if you click on the thumbs, you can view them larger size. A lot of them I uploaded original size for this purpose. Most of the ones I downsized are still about half original size.

Vance

Alex Permit · Apr 8, 2004

is with your wife. Vance, I assume this is you:

Well, I've quickly scanned your photos in their original size the only ones that seem to have a problem are the ones taken of YOU

This one has too much noise for an ISO 64 shot

This one is out of focus

I assume you didn't take those shots (since you're in the photo).

Vancemac said:
Tremendous thanks for everyone's feedback. Extremely helpful, as
always.

For those that are interested in continuing the detective work,
I've started my China gallery here. I am just starting the
post-processing routine, but here's a start:

http://vmac.smugmug.com/gallery/92790

Thanks,
Vance

Alex Permit · Apr 8, 2004

You are NOT using default predictive focus? You are using flex focus instead?

Alex Permit said:
Well, I've quickly scanned your photos in their original size the
only ones that seem to have a problem are the ones taken of YOU

This one has too much noise for an ISO 64 shot

This one is out of focus

I assume you didn't take those shots (since you're in the photo).

Vancemac said:

Tremendous thanks for everyone's feedback. Extremely helpful, as
always.

For those that are interested in continuing the detective work,
I've started my China gallery here. I am just starting the
post-processing routine, but here's a start:

http://vmac.smugmug.com/gallery/92790

Thanks,
Vance

Click to expand...

Vancemac · Apr 9, 2004

Alex Permit said:
Well, I've quickly scanned your photos in their original size the
only ones that seem to have a problem are the ones taken of YOU

This one has too much noise for an ISO 64 shot

This one is out of focus

I assume you didn't take those shots (since you're in the photo).

Vancemac said:

Tremendous thanks for everyone's feedback. Extremely helpful, as
always.

For those that are interested in continuing the detective work,
I've started my China gallery here. I am just starting the
post-processing routine, but here's a start:

http://vmac.smugmug.com/gallery/92790

Thanks,
Vance

Click to expand...

Vancemac · Apr 9, 2004

Alex Permit said:
is with your wife.

There may be something to that... not my wife, as she was not on the trip. But my work colleague, who is utterly clueless about cameras. Although, that doesn't explain the main (first) photo in this thread, which is the most egregious example.

Vance

Aza · Apr 9, 2004

Hi Mihajlo

Yes the humidity was very high in Brazil so your theory might have some ground even though I did not notice any condensation on the lens or in between the filter.

I'm using a skylight filter on my A2.

The AF system sure seems to be tricked somehow.

I will have to go through the pictures again to see if I can find some similarities between the OOF pics and taking humidity into account.

The only problem is that I think I have deleted most of the OOF pics but I will have to look.

Thanks for your input!

Jimmy

fdlsys said:
How about this:
What was the humidity like when you took those China/Brazil photos?
There are at least two things that will influence the perceived
sharpness of the photo using any camera:

Highly sensitive AF system can be tricked by the light refraction

in the air saturated by high humidity,

Condensation (misting) that happens on the lens itself that would

explain all of the symptoms you guys are having - 'noise', 'focus'
and 'posterisation'? Are you using filters on your lens? Threaded
fitting on Ax seals the moisture inside the filter-lens gap
perfectly...

My .02$

Mihajlo
South Africa

Box Brownie · Apr 9, 2004

I also have found some OOF images where you wonder what you have done wrong/differently.

As mentioned somewhere above the AF is "looking" for sufficient contrast to grab onto. I think that the A2 is using AF area information in combination with exposure data ~ therefore it may get better results if centre weighted metering is used or even spot?

But one aspect for sure is to use quick recomposition i.e. select a point of focus with small enough aperture that will ensure good overall focus on the main subject and then recompose for the shot. Now this means that the potential for P&S candids may be compromised BUT all cameras have shortfalls I suppose one just has to learn what they are and account for them in the process of picture taking.

As for whether this issue is a "fault" I am not convinced I just think that unlike my old Canon EOS650 where the focus zone was very small and I got used to shifting the visual point of emphasis (focus) by recomposing the A2 has perhaps an oddity where the focus zone is too large. Hence my wonder if it could be "tightened up" by use of the meter settings?

Just some rambling thoughts which I have yet to test for myself. {: )

Sandy · Apr 9, 2004

Try downloading Exifer (free). You will get focus distance for JPEG.

http://www.friedemann-schmidt.com/software/exifer/

Sandy

Member said:
One of the many things I like about Dalibor's MRWFormat is the Exif
reporting, which includes focus distance. And in the preview it
shows a red square denoting the focus area - precisely if spot
focus was used.

However, it only does that for RAW files. It might be worth taking
a few RAW images to be able to use that. The free trial version
might be adequate for this purpose. http://www.dalibor.cz

MikeSmith222029 · Apr 9, 2004

Hello everone. Been reading this forum for some time and just bought a Minolta A2. Haven't taken many pictures, but I have been playing around with the settings doing some experimenting.

Here's my take on the focus problems. I went outside and used the full zoom on a stationary object. One at about 100ft and the other about 10ft. I then shot wide open and closed aperture with anti-shake on and off for each shot (a total of 8 pictures). I took care to make sure the focus point was the same using the autofocus.

It appears to me there is some out of focus when the shutter is below maybe 125 or 100 with the anti-shake off. For the same shutter speed and focus point with the anti-shake on, the focus appears to be right on.

Overall, I do love this camera. And the anti-shake does work. I previously owned (and still own) an Olympus C700 that I've had for about 3 years.

As much as we like to blame our wives...........

Dalibor Jelinek · Apr 10, 2004

The new software Dalifer is going to be release very soon.
I will display Focus Distance and Focus area even for .jpeg and .tiff
for D7u, D7i, D7Hi, A1 and A2.
We are currently in alpha test stage and we should release a beta
version on the next week.
It will be announces probalby on http://www.dalibor.cz/support

Dalibor

Sandy said:
http://www.friedemann-schmidt.com/software/exifer/

Sandy

Member said:

One of the many things I like about Dalibor's MRWFormat is the Exif
reporting, which includes focus distance. And in the preview it
shows a red square denoting the focus area - precisely if spot
focus was used.

However, it only does that for RAW files. It might be worth taking
a few RAW images to be able to use that. The free trial version
might be adequate for this purpose. http://www.dalibor.cz

Click to expand...

ekamera162841 · Apr 10, 2004

in daylight !? what is the ISO?

Vancemac said:
Disclaimer: I LOVE this camera.

I have just returned from China, and took about 600 pictures with
the new A2 as its first real test. I am a bit concerned about this
focus issue. Here is an example:

100% crop:

Virtually every concern I have had about this camera so far has
ended up being attributable to user error or education, and I'm
hoping the same is true here. But I get photos like the above A
LOT. Any ideas?
And how does it happen that nothing is in focus? Nothing closest
to the camera, and not the furthest horizon?

Thanks,
Vance

--
http://www.xpphotoalbum.com/showgallery.php?ppuser=6115

A2 Fpcus issues (again)

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