Reading mode: Light Dark

Finally got a lette back from canon..........

Go to last post
Pauly,

I wasn't being vicious at all. I'm sorry I didn't see the original post but I gathered that your sent a letter with regard to the firmware. I whole agree that Canon should enable all the possibly can in the firmware but they won't. They could make changes to make it a much better camera without costing them anything, but they won't. My point was that no matter how gutsy you are for sending a letter, they aren't going to change a thing even with a million letters. Now if the rebel wasn't selling so hot and everyone was busying the D70 then maybe they would.

Todd
 
Jettubby said:
Pauly,
I wasn't being vicious at all. I'm sorry I didn't see the original
post but I gathered that your sent a letter with regard to the
firmware. I whole agree that Canon should enable all the possibly
can in the firmware but they won't. They could make changes to make
it a much better camera without costing them anything, but they
won't. My point was that no matter how gutsy you are for sending a
letter, they aren't going to change a thing even with a million
letters. Now if the rebel wasn't selling so hot and everyone was
busying the D70 then maybe they would.

Todd
Click to expand...
 
Their answer is clear enough. If you want the "advanced" features you need to buy their more expensive camera.

Or buy from their competitiors.

The only thing that will change their mine is a competitor who forces their hand.

When camera manufacturers make a budget line they KNOW they are making a budget line. The PURPOSEFULLY do not put in all the features of their high end equipment.

We'll have to wait for a hack.

Lee
PaulyOly said:
ioannis said:
This is outrageous. It wasn't designed to have advanced
functionality? maybe they should advertise that too.

Do we need to send Mr Uchida a few more letters?

Yiannis

Canon Magnifier S
EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
EF 50mm f/1.4

Dignity consists not in possessing honors, but in the consciousness
that we deserve them. Aristotle
Click to expand...
he will not recieve them. I'm going to try one of the other
managers listed on their website. I just want to be able to
recompose my shot in peace.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

Click to expand...
 
If you want to get anywhere, a letter to the head honcho is a good way to do it. There may be someone assigned to deal with all of these letters which never get directly to the head honcho in the first place, but you had better believe that if a letter is addressed to a head honcho, it is someone's job to see that it is answered appropriately. Canon is a Fortune 500 Company (or is it a Forthne 200 or maybe even a Fortune 100), a Japanese company at that, and they have their formalities. Even if the head honcho never sees it, the letter is responded to as if he had - or heads would roll. At least that it the culture that I saw when I was there years ago.
PaulyOly said:
hbh said:
Notice that the Customer Service Representative copied to Uchida.
Why do you think he did that? My guess is that Uchida actually did
receive it and then passed it to this guy to officially repsond and
copy him with the response. Else it is a matter of policy to copy
Uchida, and I believe it is a matter of personal pride and
dedication that Uchida probably actually does read what is sent to
him. You wouldn't expect such a senior officer at Canon to spend
his time responding to letters of complaints all day, would you?

The same thing happened to me when I worked at Canon's Printer
Division and someone sent a letter to the head honcho, Hiro
Yamamoto (if I remember right) at the time who I worked under. I
was directed to write a letter back, an apology really, to the
satisfaction of Yamamoto. It had his attention and it was my job on
the line to respond correctly. It was taken very seriously.

I do not think Uchida missed this at all.
PaulyOly said:
I scanned it and saved it so i wouldn't have to type it.



Unfortunately you can't write directly to the president or to
anyone important for that matter, all mail is redirected to some
customer service rep. that spits out the same cr@p to everyone.
This is what i expected. I will try writing to someone lower on
the totem pole, but i think my only hope is the hackers come up
with a solution to my recomposing problem using the 400 f5.6L. I
wonder if canon will every release a new digital rebel with more
features since it's not intended for advanced funtionality, i'm
guessing they will lower the prices of the rebel and 10d to compete
more closely with the d70 or maybe we will see a different camera.
I'm guessing i will have to get a 10d after this camera.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

Click to expand...
Click to expand...
It's possible that he did read my letter and no i don't expect him
to reply to every letter he gets. I don't think it's very probable
that he read it though. Maybe i will send him a reply with this
letter explaining that focus lock is not advanced functionality
IMHO.

If i had just sent it to the complaint office it would have gotten
no attention though, so atleast someone Higher up than a customer
rep might have read it.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

Click to expand...
 
They require you to use Mickey Mouse modes so that you will upgrade to the more expensive 10D. There is no loss of face, they made the camera that way on purpose. As they clearly indicated, if you want more advanced features then you need to spend some extra cash and buy the more advanced camera. Why would anyone buy a 10D if the rebel had all the same functionality? There was no mistake made by Canon, they limited the Rebel on purpose and offered a clear path for those who wanted more capability.

Greg

--

 
I think an aspect of all of this is that the DR is a released model that Canon will track for sales strategy on future models which they will later tweak, build and market. If I compare the way they designed and marketed the earlier bubble jet printers in the mid '80s, this is exactly how they operated. Anyone who bought the early models found all sorts of problems. The design engineering was still in development but they sold what they had anyway. They were garbage. Permanent printer heads that would plug up, connected to the inkwells by a set of tubes. What a mess. They were cutting edge for printer resolution on wide paper, and certainly a real innovation over lasers, but the build quality was awful. Customers who complained about it were brushed off. If they had a defective printer at Canon Service it would be fixed eventually, but there was no thought to upgrading them to the next better model.

I know this because I suggested it at a national Canon meeting with all Sales and Service management present and it was shot down. At the time they had a crisis that there were all of these newer models not selling - piling up in warehouses - probably because of the reputation they had earned on the earlier model. They had another model they were about to come out with. I suggested we kill two birds with one stone. Upgrade the customer to the newer model with full warranty for a trade up, then dispose of the defective printer sitting in Canon Service. Now you would have loyal customers and you could get rid of these machines that would be obsoleted in the next six months and take the load off of Canon Service Centers that were inundated with these things. They looked at me like I had two heads.

Therefore, if you bought a DR, chances are you committed to the package as it is and it will probably not be improved. Not to say they coudn't come out with a new firmware that does what the Russian hack does. They could, but it would interfere with their marketing strategies. They could get a third party software vendor to sell a firmware patch that they would sanction so as to protect their market by making it a NOT FREE option, or they could sell it themselves. My thinking though is that they will do NOTHING. That is the culture as I remember it. They are stubborn that way.
 
What's needed is less-advanced features, not more. Get rid of forced AI focus - that's all. This camera is too advanced for its own good.

Top of the range lenses incompatible with all but beginners' modes? I don't believe that was intentional.
PeaceFrog said:
They require you to use Mickey Mouse modes so that you will upgrade
to the more expensive 10D. There is no loss of face, they made the
camera that way on purpose. As they clearly indicated, if you want
more advanced features then you need to spend some extra cash and
buy the more advanced camera. Why would anyone buy a 10D if the
rebel had all the same functionality? There was no mistake made by
Canon, they limited the Rebel on purpose and offered a clear path
for those who wanted more capability.

Greg

--

Click to expand...
--
DB
 
What I objected in my cry is the tone in which Canon replied, which was arrogant. I dont expect an update of the firmware but I do expect to be treated with some dignity. The person who wrote this letter would be in trouble if someone senior saw that tone. And I agree with Pauly, if you, Dave Lewis, find everything with this camera wonderful then why bother to respond. If somehow Mr Uchida saw the emails of 2000 people in his inbox he might have been bothered to reply otherwise.

Using FTM without AI servo kicking in is a malfunction from my point of view and does result in less sharp photos. Oh and I have noticed that there is a switch for MF thank you.

Yiannis

Canon Magnifier S
EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
EF 50mm f/1.4

Dignity consists not in possessing honors, but in the consciousness that we deserve them. Aristotle
 
At first I thought you were refering to an Operating System with it's 300 million beta testers.. hehe
hbh said:
I think an aspect of all of this is that the DR is a released model
that Canon will track for sales strategy on future models which
they will later tweak, build and market. If I compare the way they
designed and marketed the earlier bubble jet printers in the mid
'80s, this is exactly how they operated. Anyone who bought the
early models found all sorts of problems. The design engineering
was still in development but they sold what they had anyway. They
were garbage. Permanent printer heads that would plug up, connected
to the inkwells by a set of tubes. What a mess. They were cutting
edge for printer resolution on wide paper, and certainly a real
innovation over lasers, but the build quality was awful. Customers
who complained about it were brushed off. If they had a defective
printer at Canon Service it would be fixed eventually, but there
was no thought to upgrading them to the next better model.

I know this because I suggested it at a national Canon meeting with
all Sales and Service management present and it was shot down. At
the time they had a crisis that there were all of these newer
models not selling - piling up in warehouses - probably because of
the reputation they had earned on the earlier model. They had
another model they were about to come out with. I suggested we kill
two birds with one stone. Upgrade the customer to the newer model
with full warranty for a trade up, then dispose of the defective
printer sitting in Canon Service. Now you would have loyal
customers and you could get rid of these machines that would be
obsoleted in the next six months and take the load off of Canon
Service Centers that were inundated with these things. They looked
at me like I had two heads.

Therefore, if you bought a DR, chances are you committed to the
package as it is and it will probably not be improved. Not to say
they coudn't come out with a new firmware that does what the
Russian hack does. They could, but it would interfere with their
marketing strategies. They could get a third party software vendor
to sell a firmware patch that they would sanction so as to protect
their market by making it a NOT FREE option, or they could sell it
themselves. My thinking though is that they will do NOTHING. That
is the culture as I remember it. They are stubborn that way.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.eastcoastphotos.com/
 
Personally I don't see how they can say it works fine - there's clearly a compatibility issue between camera and lens - in this case, the compatibility problem is with features (FTM), but still.....i convinced it's a glitch/deficit/whatever that they couldn't figure out how to fix without changing the focus mode.

I absolutely hate all references to the camera being 'crippled', but I think that's the only 'crippling' thing about this camera when it doens't allow you to use a feature of a lens - a feature you paid money for.

Although, my USM lens is micro USM, not ring USM, thus doesn't have FTM, so it isn't an issue with me.
 
HoldenMan said:
Personally I don't see how they can say it works fine - there's
clearly a compatibility issue between camera and lens - in this
case, the compatibility problem is with features (FTM), but
still.....i convinced it's a glitch/deficit/whatever that they
couldn't figure out how to fix without changing the focus mode.

I absolutely hate all references to the camera being 'crippled',
but I think that's the only 'crippling' thing about this camera
when it doens't allow you to use a feature of a lens - a feature
you paid money for.

Although, my USM lens is micro USM, not ring USM, thus doesn't have
FTM, so it isn't an issue with me.
Click to expand...
--
Yiannis

Canon Magnifier S
EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
EF 50mm f/1.4

Dignity consists not in possessing honors, but in the consciousness that we deserve them. Aristotle
 
ioannis said:
What I objected in my cry is the tone in which Canon replied,
which was arrogant. I dont expect an update of the firmware but I
do expect to be treated with some dignity. The person who wrote
this letter would be in trouble if someone senior saw that tone.
And I agree with Pauly, if you, Dave Lewis, find everything with
this camera wonderful then why bother to respond. If somehow Mr
Uchida saw the emails of 2000 people in his inbox he might have
been bothered to reply otherwise.

Using FTM without AI servo kicking in is a malfunction from my
point of view and does result in less sharp photos. Oh and I have
noticed that there is a switch for MF thank you.
Click to expand...
I don't think I've ever used the manual focusing ring on any of my lenses without first turning auto focus off. I can see if you desire to "touch up" your focus by using the full time manual focusing ring on some of the USM lenses and AlServo kicked in it would definitely be a pain. I really never thought of that. I guess because I just never do it that way. To me the focusing screen on Canon EOS digitals is so clear that you really can't get all that good an idea of focus anyway. I have always found auto focus gives me the best results in all three of my EOS digitals.

Here is my question, just how many folks using the Rebel D do you think ever use the full time manual focusing ring on their lenses, especially considering that the kit lens is not a USM lens.

Seems just pretty close to a non issue to me. Might have been for a 1D but for the Rebel D I think you are splitting hairs.

As for the tone of that letter, you must be sensitive or something. It surely didn't sound arrogant to me. It sounded honest.

--
Dave Lewis
 
PaulyOly said:
PaulyOly said:
issues they aren't going to consider issues is nothing but a
negative gloom that does none of us any benefit.
Click to expand...
Sorry Dave, but if no one complains about these issues then canon
won't know there are issues. Canon would simply think the camera
is oustanding.

If no one ever complained i guess i would be paying taxes to the
queen of england right now and pay very high prices for my cameras
like my british brothers.
Click to expand...
Pauly, consider the numbers. Canon has probably sold a couple hundred thousand of the Rebel D's. They continue to sell them as fast as they can package them up. We have a dozen folks on this forum complaining about missing features of the Rebel D that never were expected to begin with, given the product descriptions we all had access to. I can guarantee you with absolute certainty that Canon gives such letters as the one copied here total disregard. I'm rather surpised they even responded to it. They have no need to address "issues" in the most successful DSLR camera ever built.

I think, as I've said before in this regard, that allowing these neverending threads to dominate this good forum does all of us a disservice. I guess I am part of the problem since I have responded to several posts in several of these threads. I just think beating dead horses is a waste and rather unsavory in the process.
--
Dave Lewis
 
Dave Lewis said:
I don't think I've ever used the manual focusing ring on any of my
lenses without first turning auto focus off. I can see if you
desire to "touch up" your focus by using the full time manual
focusing ring on some of the USM lenses and AlServo kicked in it
would definitely be a pain. I really never thought of that. I guess
because I just never do it that way. To me the focusing screen on
Canon EOS digitals is so clear that you really can't get all that
good an idea of focus anyway. I have always found auto focus gives
me the best results in all three of my EOS digitals.
Click to expand...
That is why you can have viewfinder magnifiers that magnify the center of you subject 2.5 fold. Autofocus is inaccurate and inconsistent but that only shows in really big prints. MF is sharper but you do need to look for the extra sharpness.

Nevertheless, there is no note saying that FTM doesnt work with the digital rebel creative notes so I think Canon could be taken to school -or court- by hundrends of users.
Member said:
Here is my question, just how many folks using the Rebel D do you
think ever use the full time manual focusing ring on their lenses,
especially considering that the kit lens is not a USM lens.

Seems just pretty close to a non issue to me. Might have been for a
1D but for the Rebel D I think you are splitting hairs.

As for the tone of that letter, you must be sensitive or something.
It surely didn't sound arrogant to me. It sounded honest.
Click to expand...
When you have spent money that you barely have for something that is advertised in a misleading way maybe splitting hairs isnt such a bad thing.

What I dont understand is if you think everything is so perfect do you feel obliged to imply that people whine all the time? Maybe these are real issues for real people and they dont just whine. Why do you assume that people whine over nothing when you havent used FTM with the drebel? Nothing personal here just wanted to make sure that expecting better from a multibillion company isnt really a big luxury.
Member said:
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
Yiannis

Canon Magnifier S
EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
EF 50mm f/1.4

Dignity consists not in possessing honors, but in the consciousness that we deserve them. Aristotle
 
Dave Lewis said:
I think, as I've said before in this regard, that allowing these
neverending threads to dominate this good forum does all of us a
disservice. I guess I am part of the problem since I have responded
to several posts in several of these threads. I just think beating
dead horses is a waste and rather unsavory in the process.
Click to expand...
Member said:
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
How can you say that 100s of posts in this and other forums are a waste of space? COuld it not be that people write about it because they are concerned?

Well you have answered your question, mind your own business.

--
Yiannis

Canon Magnifier S
EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
EF 50mm f/1.4

Dignity consists not in possessing honors, but in the consciousness that we deserve them. Aristotle
 
ioannis said:
What I dont understand is if you think everything is so perfect do
you feel obliged to imply that people whine all the time? Maybe
these are real issues for real people and they dont just whine. Why
do you assume that people whine over nothing when you havent used
FTM with the drebel? Nothing personal here just wanted to make sure
that expecting better from a multibillion company isnt really a big
luxury.
Click to expand...
That's fair, I just think the Rebel D negative threads have dominated this forum for much too long. I think folks coming to the forum reading these threads are not only turned of by the forum, but are also turned off by a camera they might not have had their hands on yet. To suggest that these hair splitting issues that are so dominant to the few who live them for so much on here should be the deciding factor for the vast majority that might happen by here, seems a disservice to them, in my mind. Bottom line is that probably at least 90% of Rebel D users never have any of the problems that have so dominated the discussions here since last September. To me that is leaving the majority of Rebel D users out of these forums. Someone suggested the negative Rebel D users have a forum of their own on a Yahoo talk group or some such. That might not be all that bad an idea.

Maybe Phil, instead of banning the occasional guy who goes off the deep end here, could have a special forum he could call: "Camera Bitchers' Forum" . If your post falls into that category you could be automatically moved to that forum. I imagine every brand would be adequately represented. (VBG)
--
Dave Lewis
 
Dave Lewis said:
Member said:
What I dont understand is if you think everything is so perfect do
you feel obliged to imply that people whine all the time? Maybe
these are real issues for real people and they dont just whine. Why
do you assume that people whine over nothing when you havent used
FTM with the drebel? Nothing personal here just wanted to make sure
that expecting better from a multibillion company isnt really a big
luxury.
Click to expand...
That's fair, I just think the Rebel D negative threads have
dominated this forum for much too long. I think folks coming to the
forum reading these threads are not only turned of by the forum,
but are also turned off by a camera they might not have had their
hands on yet. To suggest that these hair splitting issues that are
so dominant to the few who live them for so much on here should be
the deciding factor for the vast majority that might happen by
here, seems a disservice to them, in my mind. Bottom line is that
probably at least 90% of Rebel D users never have any of the
problems that have so dominated the discussions here since last
September. To me that is leaving the majority of Rebel D users out
of these forums. Someone suggested the negative Rebel D users have
a forum of their own on a Yahoo talk group or some such. That might
not be all that bad an idea.

Maybe Phil, instead of banning the occasional guy who goes off the
deep end here, could have a special forum he could call: "Camera
Bitchers' Forum" . If your post falls into that category you could
be automatically moved to that forum. I imagine every brand would
be adequately represented. (VBG)
--
Dave Lewis
Click to expand...
I wont even bother to continue at this level

--
Yiannis

Canon Magnifier S
EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
EF 50mm f/1.4

Dignity consists not in possessing honors, but in the consciousness that we deserve them. Aristotle
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
  • Locked
The final chapter: The finale of my OM-1 compared with Canon R5 saga.
6 7 8
Replies
148
Views
7K
Tom Caldwell
T
Avobanana
Initial Impression of D810 coming from Canon 5D3
2
Replies
26
Views
27
SushiEater
S
E
d800 impressions from a Leica film shooter
Replies
7
Views
8
NClens
N
M
Just got my S90 back from Canon Repair
Replies
1
Views
2
Bruce Hunter
B
J
I'm ditching Canon
6 7 8
Replies
149
Views
179
atupdate
A

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top