What's wrong with diagonal noise?

I have two questions. I don't mean to be provocative; I just want to know.

1. If the total amount of noise is the same, is diagonal noise worse than random noise? (Someone asked this question previously but I don't think it was answered.)

2. If the noise is diagonal in pattern, does this indicate that the A2 is producing more noise overall than if the noise is random?

In other words, just what is wrong with diagonal noise?

Well, for one it's seems to be more obvious to the eye than random noise. And two, I think it might be harder fro Neat Image or Noise Ninja to remove.

Les 22 said:

I have two questions. I don't mean to be provocative; I just want
to know.

1. If the total amount of noise is the same, is diagonal noise
worse than random noise? (Someone asked this question previously
but I don't think it was answered.)

2. If the noise is diagonal in pattern, does this indicate that
the A2 is producing more noise overall than if the noise is random?

In other words, just what is wrong with diagonal noise?

Click to expand...

--



Beauty is in the eye of the Bee-holder...

i did an extensive test drive with the A2 and another brand of camera and shots at ISO400 is what i used as that was the highest of the othe brand.........i did see this diagonal thing at 100% viewing which is hardly representative of the size you print at.
i printed the A2 picture at 8x10 and even with a loupe i saw no diagonal lines.

fotog said:

Les 22 said:

I have two questions. I don't mean to be provocative; I just want
to know.

1. If the total amount of noise is the same, is diagonal noise
worse than random noise? (Someone asked this question previously
but I don't think it was answered.)

2. If the noise is diagonal in pattern, does this indicate that
the A2 is producing more noise overall than if the noise is random?

In other words, just what is wrong with diagonal noise?

Click to expand...

--



Beauty is in the eye of the Bee-holder...

Click to expand...

Les 22 said:

1. If the total amount of noise is the same, is diagonal noise
worse than random noise? (Someone asked this question previously
but I don't think it was answered.)

Click to expand...

Your eye and brain are built to filter out random noise and pick out patterns. Even if the total noise is less, it is more distracting since it has a pattern to it.

Some people see it right away. Others see it when its pointed out, But as soon as your mind "knows what to look for", it becomes obvious.

over everything. That's what's wrong. I mentioned this in a few posts... I personally wouldn't brand it as being noise at all, more like diagonal "pulsing", "banding", "interference", "patterns" as others refer to it from time to time.

I don't know why I keep posting under this topic as my A2 seems to exhibit none of this... so I should just lay off I guess. But on the other hand, I want to express my opinion that this effect isn't normal especially since a portion of the cameras have it, the other portion doesn't. So I would suggest that people exchange their units if it bothers them in the least, as it would me.

Whether or not one would view the images at such magnifications is irrelevent... it simply shouldn't happen with such a greatly designed machine.

Advancements in technology happen in large part due to consumers insistence for quality and value for their dollar. Fortunately for KM, the A2 has a slew of other qualities to overshadow this flaw, but it is a flaw nonetheless. Whether one chooses to live with this flaw or go through the trouble of trading it in is up to the individual.

As far as these effected units having more noise than non-effected units, there were some posted samples that proved this was the case (I can't remember who it was, but someone went back to the camera store with his "bad" camera, took a snapshot of a laptop keyboard, both with his and another stocked unit and viewed them at the spot. Not only did the "new" camera not have diagonals, many agreed that it looked sharper w/ more detail.) Of course, this is only one sample and not the most scientific test in the world.

Les Leventhal said:

In other words, just what is wrong with diagonal noise?

Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more Rob - no one should have to put up with this defect. It seems that some don't have it although I have seen pics posted that looked OK but when levels was pushed it appeared.

Now some clever person is going to say 'well don't use levels' but these are tricks often used in post processing to improve shadow detail etc. I concur with the advice to exchange the camera until you get satisfaction.

Keith-C

Main reason why one should not put up with it: diagonal noise is not in lieu off. It's additional.

To be compared with a light humming in your stereo.

It's mainly due to bad EM shielding, grounding, timing signals, ... and thus can be engineered out.

Ronald

Les 22 said:

I have two questions. I don't mean to be provocative; I just want
to know.

1. If the total amount of noise is the same, is diagonal noise
worse than random noise? (Someone asked this question previously
but I don't think it was answered.)

2. If the noise is diagonal in pattern, does this indicate that
the A2 is producing more noise overall than if the noise is random?

In other words, just what is wrong with diagonal noise?

Click to expand...

Having an A2 with significant diagonal banding, that's an interesting question. For 95% plus of my photos I'm sure it won't matter because you can't see it at normal viewing/printing resolutions. It's those few cases where I want to crop a small portion of the image where it may become a problem. As someone else said, even though the total amount of noise may not be any different, the diagonal pattern definitely catches your attention more readily. For some photos, I think a random noise pattern can be quite attractive and add to the picture. Not so for diagonal banding.

I think I will exchange my camera once I work out a quick reproducable test I can use in the camera store to test out a replacement A2 for such banding artifact.

Dave

http://www.pbase.com/daparker/diagonal_banding

Hi Dave,

If you work out this test, please share it with us. I am going to pick up a new A2 in a couple of weeks and, like you, I would like to test it at the store. Others probably would like to know also.

Best, Les
.

roadtreker said:

Having an A2 with significant diagonal banding, that's an
interesting question. For 95% plus of my photos I'm sure it won't
matter because you can't see it at normal viewing/printing
resolutions. It's those few cases where I want to crop a small
portion of the image where it may become a problem. As someone else
said, even though the total amount of noise may not be any
different, the diagonal pattern definitely catches your attention
more readily. For some photos, I think a random noise pattern can
be quite attractive and add to the picture. Not so for diagonal
banding.

I think I will exchange my camera once I work out a quick
reproducable test I can use in the camera store to test out a
replacement A2 for such banding artifact.

Dave

http://www.pbase.com/daparker/diagonal_banding

Click to expand...