sandisk ultra II vs Viking = same

why should people stop comparing when the prices on the two are different? a lot of owners bought the ULTRA II for more money thinking that DR's read and write speed will improve only to find out its just the same as getting the regular cards.
If you're concerned solely about price per MB, and in-camera
performance any 8x card should suffice.
im not worrying too much on the CF reader, where it matters is when
youre shooting and reviewing pictures on your DR. Both are slow.
--
Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper -
http://www.swiftbennett.com
--
PORTFOLIO SITE: http://kaizenbiz.com/jush ***
 
The Ultra II shines when it's time to dump a GB of RAWs to your PC via a USB2 card reader, not so much while the DR writes to the CF card.

--
Alan
 
just a quick question: my camera displayed an error 02 today when i was shooting raw files and ran out of space. It didn't say it was out of space, just said error 02

also, sunday, for the first time, i had "corruped data' for a picture. Tonight, i had hte same thing. It wa sa question mark with corrupt image or something nad i can't save the file.

So...can CF cards go bad? or is this something with my camera instead
I just gotmy 256mb ultra II, now i understand that its faster than
regular sandisk but compared to the viking cards theyre the same.
if one IS faster, then i think ultra is by half a sec.

i got excited when i saw the package coz you can clearly see that
the camera in the packaging is a rebel, almost like optimized for
the rebel.

Am i sending it back? no, coz $62- $15rebate = is an OK price for a
256mb. but getting a 512mb then $99viking over a $150sandiskultra
II is a no brainer.

just thought id let you guys know.

--
PORTFOLIO SITE: http://kaizenbiz.com/jush ***
 
Yep, ordered mine! :)
I just gotmy 256mb ultra II, now i understand that its faster than
regular sandisk but compared to the viking cards theyre the same.
if one IS faster, then i think ultra is by half a sec.

i got excited when i saw the package coz you can clearly see that
the camera in the packaging is a rebel, almost like optimized for
the rebel.

Am i sending it back? no, coz $62- $15rebate = is an OK price for a
256mb. but getting a 512mb then $99viking over a $150sandiskultra
II is a no brainer.

just thought id let you guys know.

--
PORTFOLIO SITE: http://kaizenbiz.com/jush ***
 
Your initial post implied that the performance of the Ultra II vs. the Viking is identical, or at least very close, which in general is patently false. What you really meant was that performance within the camera is pretty much equal, which is pretty unremarkable and to be expected. The performance gains you'll see with the Ultra II isn't in-camera performance, it's for read/write speed with readers. It can cut transfer times in half, which is great for those of us who take an immense amount of photos.

If you're happy with the performance of the Viking in-camera, great! It's nice to know there's some cheaper alternatives to the Ultra II - but when making comparisons, we need to be sure to know what we're actually comparing so we can all make educated decisions. Your initial post could confuse some if they didn't realize you were only referring to in-camera performance. :)
why should people stop comparing when the prices on the two are
different? a lot of owners bought the ULTRA II for more money
thinking that DR's read and write speed will improve only to find
out its just the same as getting the regular cards.
--

Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper - http://www.swiftbennett.com
 
I suspect there's more than meets the eye here. I doubt that Rob Galbraith is somehow getting "lucky" and getting faster cards. His test results very close to other tests - including the old ones done here. I've done my own tests here with my Ultra II vs. Lexar and some other no-names, and it is indeed faster.

If you have an early USB 2-compatible mobo, it may only support "Full Speed" transfers, which are slower than "High Speed" - so it would still be compliant, just for a different part of the standard. If the results are identical, it would seem to me you're just hitting a bottleneck somewhere. :)
You said your card reader is USB 2 - but is it USB 2 High Speed,
and do the ports on your laptop support USB 2 High Speed (vs. Full
Speed)?
Yes and Yes.
I was using my main computer, a high speed P IV with USB 2 on the
Abit max 2 motherboard, writing to a 8 mb cache sata drive. The
card reader is also very fast and is a true USB 2 speed
"certified"? vs just a USB 2 "compatible" reader. I am not certain
if those are the precise terms but I know that the with marketing
some people who think they are getting a high speed USB2 are in
fact not...
--

Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper - http://www.swiftbennett.com
 
You said your card reader is USB 2 - but is it USB 2 High Speed,
and do the ports on your laptop support USB 2 High Speed (vs. Full
Speed)?
Yes and Yes.
I was using my main computer, a high speed P IV with USB 2 on the
Abit max 2 motherboard, writing to a 8 mb cache sata drive. The
card reader is also very fast and is a true USB 2 speed
"certified"? vs just a USB 2 "compatible" reader. I am not certain
if those are the precise terms but I know that the with marketing
some people who think they are getting a high speed USB2 are in
fact not...

I was really surprised by the findings between these three
supposedly "top speed"(two of them) and "bottom speed" flash cards.
My only analysis is that perhaps the write speed would have been
different if instead of sending one massive 137 mb file to read and
write, I had sent 30 x 4 mb files instead.. perhaps with individual
read / write (like a camera would do) then the "seek time" of the
cf card would show the difference... then again I would expect that
data is data... little 1's and 0's and the cf card doesnt care if
its a image file or a windows file if its being read to and from a
high speed card reader.

Again, I was really surprised by the equality of the two results. I
know how poor the sandisk SD cards function with Tungesten Palm,
and that the read / write speed is poor (like 9% of the speed of
the lexars) but I never expected a card with no claims would equal
a card that is supposedly "x60" speed.

Perhaps in larger CF cards than 256mb it makes a difference? Once
again I would like to re-iterate that I used to belong to the camp
that "faster cards" make a difference, and, as with lab / research
work, theorums become more interesting when a negative conclusion
is reached rather than a positive one... makes one ask.... why???
You could also use SiSoft Sandra or some other bencmark tool to check the speed. Its better than to time it yourself.

I will try to test mine.
 
I've tested my Sandisk Ultra II 512MB and standard 512MB, even in the camera there is a difference. I found the newer standard 512MB to be much less of a dog though than at Rob's site. I can't remember the exact numbers, but I was getting about 12xxK/sec with the Ultra II and 9xxK/sec I think with the standard Sandisk on the 300D.

I did my timed tests filling up the buffer with 4 Large RAW .CRW images then waiting for the write light to come on and the last time it went off. Calculated image sizes and time taken and did the math.

Camera was tripod mounted and shot at the same subject throughout the tests. I do think newer batches of standard Sandisk are not as bad as older ones... mine did much better than Rob's.
If you have an early USB 2-compatible mobo, it may only support
"Full Speed" transfers, which are slower than "High Speed" - so it
would still be compliant, just for a different part of the
standard. If the results are identical, it would seem to me you're
just hitting a bottleneck somewhere. :)
You said your card reader is USB 2 - but is it USB 2 High Speed,
and do the ports on your laptop support USB 2 High Speed (vs. Full
Speed)?
Yes and Yes.
I was using my main computer, a high speed P IV with USB 2 on the
Abit max 2 motherboard, writing to a 8 mb cache sata drive. The
card reader is also very fast and is a true USB 2 speed
"certified"? vs just a USB 2 "compatible" reader. I am not certain
if those are the precise terms but I know that the with marketing
some people who think they are getting a high speed USB2 are in
fact not...
--
Sam Bennett - Photo Guy, Audio Engineer and Web-Apper -
http://www.swiftbennett.com
 
I will retest my cards again when I get home, I will try sandra as well as was suggested. As I had mentioned before, all my testing goes against my initial supposition (that my ultra IIs were substantially faster) however I did repeat that 137 mb read / write file several (ok 3) times to be sure it wasnt a windows "cache" thing going on. Once again, the reason for my post was not to suggest that the old vanilla sandisk 256 cards have always been the same as the Ultra IIs, rather I was wondering aloud (ie on the net) whether the cards onboard "drivers" have been updated to the level of the ultra II's. Sandisk is under no obligation to state "now even faster" on their packaging and if someone wants to buy the same card under "ultra II lifetime guarrentee" packaging who is to say they have been ripped off if BOTH cards write to the specifications of the better one?

I was hoping that maybe I had fallen onto a new "hidden feature" similar to the cheaper priced 4 gig microdrives found in the muvo2... no reason for hitatchi to not sell the usual branded ones at 3x the price, provided that you are paying for the retail packaging and guarrentee. IF you buy the muvo and rip the mircrodrive.. great, you have saved money at the same performance, but not the same guarrentree.

In any case, has anyone attempted to test their cards in the manner I did? Ie instead of transferring many small files, try a large file and see if the sustained write and read speeds end up equilibrating... It could be that the ultra IIs are fast in a "burst mode" writing of perhaps less than 10mb at a time, but with a sustained write of a 137 mb file, the drivers hit diminishing returns and become the same speed as the regular cards...

ciao
Jose
I've tested my Sandisk Ultra II 512MB and standard 512MB, even in
the camera there is a difference. I found the newer standard 512MB
to be much less of a dog though than at Rob's site. I can't
remember the exact numbers, but I was getting about 12xxK/sec with
the Ultra II and 9xxK/sec I think with the standard Sandisk on the
300D.

I did my timed tests filling up the buffer with 4 Large RAW .CRW
images then waiting for the write light to come on and the last
time it went off. Calculated image sizes and time taken and did
the math.

Camera was tripod mounted and shot at the same subject throughout
the tests. I do think newer batches of standard Sandisk are not as
bad as older ones... mine did much better than Rob's.
 
Slow and unreliable (been replaced by viking once already)

My Lexar 12x is noticibly faster...

FWIW
I just gotmy 256mb ultra II, now i understand that its faster than
regular sandisk but compared to the viking cards theyre the same.
if one IS faster, then i think ultra is by half a sec.

i got excited when i saw the package coz you can clearly see that
the camera in the packaging is a rebel, almost like optimized for
the rebel.

Am i sending it back? no, coz $62- $15rebate = is an OK price for a
256mb. but getting a 512mb then $99viking over a $150sandiskultra
II is a no brainer.

just thought id let you guys know.

--
PORTFOLIO SITE: http://kaizenbiz.com/jush ***
 
I can't believe this... I just tested all three cards( the two ultra II's 256 mb and the supposedly crappy (but very new... new packaging) sandisk 256mb card with my USB 2.0 cardreader and 2.0 ports (the whole abit max2 board has exclusively USB 2.0 ports, and I am running a pentium IV with 1 gig of fast ram (corsair)). I formatted both Ultra II's in Canon 300d just before running the test, and I think _ did the same yesterday for the regular sandisk... it was empty so therefore just ran the benchmarking test... after I post this note I will reformat it again in the camera and retest a third time... I may have reformatted it by accident through win xp pro instead...

Each test took upwards of almost 10 mins to run using SiSoftware Sandra 2003 to "benchmark" properly... the results are below. I didn't believe the first slow card result and retested it again at the end... still faster than the two ultra II's. I haven't tested in camera performance yet... will get to that. I didn't touch the computer while running the tests to cause interference... can someone please collarate with their testing.. also please mention the date of purchase of the cards... for me the new sandisk regular was purchased end of feb, and the 2 ultra II's were purchased mid January.
Thanks
========

1) "Slow" Standard 256 mb CF card

Test Status
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 1
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : No
Windows Disk Cache Used : No
Use Overlapped I/O : Yes
Command Queue Depth : 4 command(s)
Test File Size : 220MB

Benchmark Breakdown
Buffered Read : 2441 kB/s
Sequential Read : 2442 kB/s
Random Read : 2019 kB/s
Buffered Write : 2348 kB/s
Sequential Write : 2515 kB/s
Random Write : 917 kB/s
Average Access Time : 5 ms (estimated)

Drive
Drive Class : Removable
Drive Device : Generic volume
Total Space : 244MB
Free Space : 244MB, 100%

2) Ultra II 256mb card I

SiSoftware Sandra

Test Status
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 1
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : No
Windows Disk Cache Used : No
Use Overlapped I/O : Yes
Command Queue Depth : 4 command(s)
Test File Size : 220MB

Benchmark Breakdown
Buffered Read : 2426 kB/s
Sequential Read : 2425 kB/s
Random Read : 1141 kB/s
Buffered Write : 2488 kB/s
Sequential Write : 2589 kB/s
Random Write : 753 kB/s
Average Access Time : 30 ms (estimated)

Drive
Drive Class : Removable
Drive Device : Generic volume
Total Space : 244MB
Free Space : 244MB, 100%

3) Ultra II 256mb card II
SiSoftware Sandra

Test Status
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 1
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : No
Windows Disk Cache Used : No
Use Overlapped I/O : Yes
Command Queue Depth : 4 command(s)
Test File Size : 220MB

Benchmark Breakdown
Buffered Read : 2426 kB/s
Sequential Read : 2425 kB/s
Random Read : 1141 kB/s
Buffered Write : 2536 kB/s
Sequential Write : 2590 kB/s
Random Write : 755 kB/s
Average Access Time : 30 ms (estimated)

Drive
Drive Class : Removable
Drive Device : Generic volume
Total Space : 244MB
Free Space : 244MB, 100%

Didn't believe the result of the first crappy sandisk card and tested it again:
SiSoftware Sandra

Test Status
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 1
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : No
Windows Disk Cache Used : No
Use Overlapped I/O : Yes
Command Queue Depth : 4 command(s)
Test File Size : 220MB

Benchmark Breakdown
Buffered Read : 2441 kB/s
Sequential Read : 2442 kB/s
Random Read : 2028 kB/s
Buffered Write : 2348 kB/s
Sequential Write : 2516 kB/s
Random Write : 922 kB/s
Average Access Time : 5 ms (estimated)

Drive
Drive Class : Removable
Drive Device : Generic volume
Total Space : 244MB
Free Space : 244MB, 100%

It is scary to note just how close the read write speed duplicated for the ultra II's they are identicle...

Any comments?
 
I reformatted the sandisk regular card 256mb in camera one last time to control the last possible factor that I could believe may have contributed to the different times.. again the regular card remains much faster than the ultra II's
Result dump file below::

SiSoftware Sandra

Test Status
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 1
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : No
Windows Disk Cache Used : No
Use Overlapped I/O : Yes
Command Queue Depth : 4 command(s)
Test File Size : 220MB

Benchmark Breakdown
Buffered Read : 2441 kB/s
Sequential Read : 2442 kB/s
Random Read : 2020 kB/s
Buffered Write : 2349 kB/s
Sequential Write : 2517 kB/s
Random Write : 919 kB/s
Average Access Time : 5 ms (estimated)

Drive
Drive Class : Removable
Drive Device : Generic volume
Total Space : 244MB
Free Space : 244MB, 100%

Performance Tips
Notice 5008 : To change benchmarks, click Options.
Notice 5004 : Synthetic benchmark. May not tally with 'real-life' performance.

Notice 5006 : Only compare the results with ones obtained using the same version!
Tip 5202 : Use cache on to measure Windows performance.
Warning 5206 : Low Disk index. Check DMA bus-mastering is enabled.

Tip 2 : Double-click tip or press Enter while a tip is selected for more information about the tip.

Tomorrow I will test the card "real life" shooting again with the three cards in raw format on a tripod. If again the speeds are the same I think I am going back to costco and get a few more of these cards! Here in Canada they are about 65$ compared to the retail price of 119 $ for the Ultra IIs... will sell the Ultra II's on ebay.

I would love to see others test their cards with sandra 2003 or 2004 and post the results here as well. I trust rob galbraith's results but on my system things seem to be different than I expected, and I cannot doubt my own results!
 
Oh, one last thing.. I am using the russian hack firmware... this allows anywhere from 36 to 42 raw files per 256 mb with small coarse jpgs thumbnails in the raw compared to the 32 I believe I was getting pre-russian hack
 
I'd prefer to see 300D times - your USB 2.0 interface/reader could be the bottleneck.

Note Rob Galbraith's tests, the Ultra II to computer should be much more than 2.4K/sec.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-6133

As he notes - USB 2.0 card readers are not consistent, and the speeds you are seeing does indicate its definitely USB 2.0 of some sort, but perhaps not such a great performing card reader. I don't have a card reader to test with for USB 2.0 though.
I can't believe this... I just tested all three cards( the two
ultra II's 256 mb and the supposedly crappy (but very new... new
packaging) sandisk 256mb card with my USB 2.0 cardreader and 2.0
ports (the whole abit max2 board has exclusively USB 2.0 ports, and
I am running a pentium IV with 1 gig of fast ram (corsair)). I
formatted both Ultra II's in Canon 300d just before running the
test, and I think _ did the same yesterday for the regular
sandisk... it was empty so therefore just ran the benchmarking
test... after I post this note I will reformat it again in the
camera and retest a third time... I may have reformatted it by
accident through win xp pro instead...


Each test took upwards of almost 10 mins to run using SiSoftware
Sandra 2003 to "benchmark" properly... the results are below. I
didn't believe the first slow card result and retested it again at
the end... still faster than the two ultra II's. I haven't tested
in camera performance yet... will get to that. I didn't touch the
computer while running the tests to cause interference... can
someone please collarate with their testing.. also please mention
the date of purchase of the cards... for me the new sandisk regular
was purchased end of feb, and the 2 ultra II's were purchased mid
January.
Thanks
========

1) "Slow" Standard 256 mb CF card

Test Status
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 1
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : No
Windows Disk Cache Used : No
Use Overlapped I/O : Yes
Command Queue Depth : 4 command(s)
Test File Size : 220MB

Benchmark Breakdown
Buffered Read : 2441 kB/s
Sequential Read : 2442 kB/s
Random Read : 2019 kB/s
Buffered Write : 2348 kB/s
Sequential Write : 2515 kB/s
Random Write : 917 kB/s
Average Access Time : 5 ms (estimated)

Drive
Drive Class : Removable
Drive Device : Generic volume
Total Space : 244MB
Free Space : 244MB, 100%

2) Ultra II 256mb card I

SiSoftware Sandra

Test Status
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 1
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : No
Windows Disk Cache Used : No
Use Overlapped I/O : Yes
Command Queue Depth : 4 command(s)
Test File Size : 220MB

Benchmark Breakdown
Buffered Read : 2426 kB/s
Sequential Read : 2425 kB/s
Random Read : 1141 kB/s
Buffered Write : 2488 kB/s
Sequential Write : 2589 kB/s
Random Write : 753 kB/s
Average Access Time : 30 ms (estimated)

Drive
Drive Class : Removable
Drive Device : Generic volume
Total Space : 244MB
Free Space : 244MB, 100%

3) Ultra II 256mb card II
SiSoftware Sandra

Test Status
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 1
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : No
Windows Disk Cache Used : No
Use Overlapped I/O : Yes
Command Queue Depth : 4 command(s)
Test File Size : 220MB

Benchmark Breakdown
Buffered Read : 2426 kB/s
Sequential Read : 2425 kB/s
Random Read : 1141 kB/s
Buffered Write : 2536 kB/s
Sequential Write : 2590 kB/s
Random Write : 755 kB/s
Average Access Time : 30 ms (estimated)

Drive
Drive Class : Removable
Drive Device : Generic volume
Total Space : 244MB
Free Space : 244MB, 100%

Didn't believe the result of the first crappy sandisk card and
tested it again:
SiSoftware Sandra

Test Status
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 1
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : No
Windows Disk Cache Used : No
Use Overlapped I/O : Yes
Command Queue Depth : 4 command(s)
Test File Size : 220MB

Benchmark Breakdown
Buffered Read : 2441 kB/s
Sequential Read : 2442 kB/s
Random Read : 2028 kB/s
Buffered Write : 2348 kB/s
Sequential Write : 2516 kB/s
Random Write : 922 kB/s
Average Access Time : 5 ms (estimated)

Drive
Drive Class : Removable
Drive Device : Generic volume
Total Space : 244MB
Free Space : 244MB, 100%

It is scary to note just how close the read write speed duplicated
for the ultra II's they are identicle...

Any comments?
 

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