Tired of crippled talk

You don't see film Rebel owners complaining too much about lacking
features found in Elans, because they know they bought the lower
priced Rebel instead of the Elan.

When it comes to digital though, sheesh, people want the 10D or 1D
or D30 or whatever features in the 300D/DR.

--
Sony 717, Canon DR
You are exactly right. I never complained about my Rebel G lacking any features and it still takes excellent photos. I would think that the vast majority of people that buy the 300D have never heard of FEC, for example, and really don't care.
 
I am completely aggree with others, and don't blame Canon or don't think they are doing something unfair (and happy with my 300D), but:

I just think the car example you have given is not a good one, SE version (cheaper on) of the car does not have the air-condition and ABS subsystems at all. I mean they do not have the ABS unit itself. However, what we have here (up to some extend), is a LX car, air-condition installed but A/C button just removed, and full ABS infrastructure installed but not powered :)

This is always happen on the software industry, most software have some LE edition which is indeed crippled versions (some simply upgradeable to Pro version with the addition of a new license rather than installing a new software)

This is how it goes...
I can't understand how people keep calling the DRebel crippled.
It's not like Canon said it would do more than it does. My Rebel
does everything it said it would. Of course you have to pay more
for more features. Have you ever heard of anyone complaining about
their crippled car because they bought the cheaper SE version than
the LX? So what if the car's chassis is the same...the company has
the right to put whatever features they want into the vehicle for a
set price. With today's cars capable of performance upgrades
with chips or firmware upgrades, you still never hear of people
starting petitions to get features they never paid for in the first
place. Stop whining about your Rebel...use it...love it...and if
you want more features, spend a few thousand more on a D1s.
 
I can't understand how people keep calling the DRebel crippled.
It's not like Canon said it would do more than it does. My Rebel
does everything it said it would. Of course you have to pay more
for more features. Have you ever heard of anyone complaining about
their crippled car because they bought the cheaper SE version than
the LX? So what if the car's chassis is the same...the company has
the right to put whatever features they want into the vehicle for a
set price. With today's cars capable of performance upgrades
with chips or firmware upgrades, you still never hear of people
starting petitions to get features they never paid for in the first
place. Stop whining about your Rebel...use it...love it...and if
you want more features, spend a few thousand more on a D1s.
--
Sony 717, Canon DR
 
Because someone called the camera they own crippled. A camera that
you probably won't own this time next year, it's a CAMERA!

Now if someone talks about the lens i own then that's a different
story. Get over it!
Huh?
The original poster made a great point.
You make little sense with this reply.

The 300D is NOT crippled. It does as advertised, at a great price
to boot and can create a photo as good as the best SLR. The
D70 is $500CDN more and with no option of the battery grip which
contains a second battery which I can't live without.
 
Wow, you guys sounds really angry. I'm sticking my neck out here by taking the contrary position. I'm not sure about other dissenters, but I'll tell you why I haven't bought a 300D. No malice intended. Just to explain the mindset of those who don't think 300D is value for money and why they think its 'crippled'.

Before the 300D came out, we never knew that DSLRs could be manufatured at $1000 and still be profitable. One simply had to assume that $2000 or whatever was the price of production and that we were getting the 'most camera' for that buck. Now we know that in fact, you could manufacture a similar camera for a whole lot less. In fact you could make a 300D with the same features of the 10D at the price of the 300D.

You're right, the 'trolls' who complain don't own 300Ds. That's because they are excercising their choice not to pay for a camera that has a set of features disabled not because of production costs but for marketing differentiation so that Canon can maintain a price premium where there is really no compelling reason to. (of course its Canon's right to milk the customer base for what its worth in a free market system)

Therefore, the question is not why I the customer should pay more if I want more features. The question should be why Canon disabled the features on that camera. The existence of the 300D is proof that I'm not getting value for money. That value-for-money-camera should not be far round the corner now that Nikon has made its move. Thanks to the free market economy which kept prices high because of Canon's monopoly will now force Canon's hand to release a non-crippled 300D.

Although the 300D is cheap compared to other digital SLRs, it is still as expensive as a high end film SLR with tons more features. If I were moving from an EOS 30 or EOS 3 to a digital SLR and paying so much money for it, and expecting to use it for many years, I don't want to commit now only to have Canon release the 300D Mark II 1 year later (which I'd expect them to do with a cheap firmware upgrade) as an internal roadmap of planned obselence.

Be kind. :-)

Lee Kuo Ann
...is the "crippled" posts coming from trolls that don't even own a
DRebel. My DRebel is way more camera than my photographic skills
need, and I'm having a blast using my camera!
 
Go buy yourself a Pontiac Sunfire and go tell GM it doesn't run like a Corvette even if they got similar shape.

Go take picture and learn to use the camera, then we'll see if there'S something the 300D cannot do.
Before the 300D came out, we never knew that DSLRs could be
manufatured at $1000 and still be profitable. One simply had to
assume that $2000 or whatever was the price of production and that
we were getting the 'most camera' for that buck. Now we know that
in fact, you could manufacture a similar camera for a whole lot
less. In fact you could make a 300D with the same features of the
10D at the price of the 300D.

You're right, the 'trolls' who complain don't own 300Ds. That's
because they are excercising their choice not to pay for a camera
that has a set of features disabled not because of production costs
but for marketing differentiation so that Canon can maintain a
price premium where there is really no compelling reason to. (of
course its Canon's right to milk the customer base for what its
worth in a free market system)

Therefore, the question is not why I the customer should pay more
if I want more features. The question should be why Canon disabled
the features on that camera. The existence of the 300D is proof
that I'm not getting value for money. That value-for-money-camera
should not be far round the corner now that Nikon has made its
move. Thanks to the free market economy which kept prices high
because of Canon's monopoly will now force Canon's hand to release
a non-crippled 300D.

Although the 300D is cheap compared to other digital SLRs, it is
still as expensive as a high end film SLR with tons more features.
If I were moving from an EOS 30 or EOS 3 to a digital SLR and
paying so much money for it, and expecting to use it for many
years, I don't want to commit now only to have Canon release the
300D Mark II 1 year later (which I'd expect them to do with a cheap
firmware upgrade) as an internal roadmap of planned obselence.

Be kind. :-)

Lee Kuo Ann
...is the "crippled" posts coming from trolls that don't even own a
DRebel. My DRebel is way more camera than my photographic skills
need, and I'm having a blast using my camera!
 
Call us cheapskates, or perhaps prudent, but there are a bunch of people like me waiting on the sidelines refusing to pay up for a 10D when they know that one day, not long from now, a 300D will come out with the features of the 10D. I'm sure Canon marketing guys know that too but have calculated that they can get a way with it until the competition comes up with precisely such a camera.

I'm sure we all know its going to happen... only question is when?

FYI: I'm no novice as you imply, having owned and used the EOS 500, EOS 30, EOS 5, and G2 for many years, I have come to expect a minimum feature set in a DSLR, and I think its criminal to leave out a commonly used and important feature like manual Flash Exposure Compensation.

OK, I've made my point and I'll just leave it there.

KA
Go buy yourself a Pontiac Sunfire and go tell GM it doesn't run
like a Corvette even if they got similar shape.

Go take picture and learn to use the camera, then we'll see if
there'S something the 300D cannot do.
 
If you took the trouble to read more around the subject you would know that there are specific problems which have been identified with this camera - problems which have nothing to do with "feature envy".

My own single biggest criticism of the camera would be the lack of a way to switch off the AI focus mode, for two reasons. One, it sometimes makes it impossible to use the basic technique of focus, recompose and shoot, without the servo kicking in, and two, because it renders the camera partially incompatible with lenses that should have full-time manual focus capability (but don't have, thanks to this "feature".)

I would add that using a subject line like the one you've chosen undermines any credibility that your argument might otherwise carry, quite apart from being unnecessarily rude.

DB
Go take picture and learn to use the camera, then we'll see if
there'S something the 300D cannot do.
Before the 300D came out, we never knew that DSLRs could be
manufatured at $1000 and still be profitable. One simply had to
assume that $2000 or whatever was the price of production and that
we were getting the 'most camera' for that buck. Now we know that
in fact, you could manufacture a similar camera for a whole lot
less. In fact you could make a 300D with the same features of the
10D at the price of the 300D.

You're right, the 'trolls' who complain don't own 300Ds. That's
because they are excercising their choice not to pay for a camera
that has a set of features disabled not because of production costs
but for marketing differentiation so that Canon can maintain a
price premium where there is really no compelling reason to. (of
course its Canon's right to milk the customer base for what its
worth in a free market system)

Therefore, the question is not why I the customer should pay more
if I want more features. The question should be why Canon disabled
the features on that camera. The existence of the 300D is proof
that I'm not getting value for money. That value-for-money-camera
should not be far round the corner now that Nikon has made its
move. Thanks to the free market economy which kept prices high
because of Canon's monopoly will now force Canon's hand to release
a non-crippled 300D.

Although the 300D is cheap compared to other digital SLRs, it is
still as expensive as a high end film SLR with tons more features.
If I were moving from an EOS 30 or EOS 3 to a digital SLR and
paying so much money for it, and expecting to use it for many
years, I don't want to commit now only to have Canon release the
300D Mark II 1 year later (which I'd expect them to do with a cheap
firmware upgrade) as an internal roadmap of planned obselence.

Be kind. :-)

Lee Kuo Ann
...is the "crippled" posts coming from trolls that don't even own a
DRebel. My DRebel is way more camera than my photographic skills
need, and I'm having a blast using my camera!
--
DB
 
You absolutely correct. Canon (or any other company) is entitled to offer whatever specification they choose. The consumer can then decide to buy or not to buy based on their requirements.

People that buy the camera and then start complaining about being 'cheated' because of features it's lacking deserve no sympathy and have only themselves to blame.

Simon C
http://www.eyematter.com
I can't understand how people keep calling the DRebel crippled.
It's not like Canon said it would do more than it does. My Rebel
does everything it said it would. Of course you have to pay more
for more features. Have you ever heard of anyone complaining about
their crippled car because they bought the cheaper SE version than
the LX? So what if the car's chassis is the same...the company has
the right to put whatever features they want into the vehicle for a
set price. With today's cars capable of performance upgrades
with chips or firmware upgrades, you still never hear of people
starting petitions to get features they never paid for in the first
place. Stop whining about your Rebel...use it...love it...and if
you want more features, spend a few thousand more on a D1s.
 
Because someone called the camera they own crippled. A camera that
you probably won't own this time next year, it's a CAMERA!

Now if someone talks about the lens i own then that's a different
story. Get over it!
Huh?
The original poster made a great point.
You make little sense with this reply.

The 300D is NOT crippled. It does as advertised, at a great price
to boot and can create a photo as good as the best SLR. The
D70 is $500CDN more and with no option of the battery grip which
contains a second battery which I can't live without.
I was of course being sarcastic with the comment about someone saying something bad about a lens I own. It just sounds stupid doesn't it.

Just think about it, this post was started to defend a camera because people are calling it crippled. It's rediculous to defend a camera or lens or your car you drive. If someone says something derogatory about your mother then that's worth posting about, this is not.

The only thing that makes this camera crippled is the lack of focus lock, just try to lock focus on a brown dogs eye and recompose to the middle of it's nose using the 50mm f1.8 at f/1.8, it's almost impossible. I've tried two different cameras with the same result. Send me yours i'm sure it works the same.

Since you mentioned it compared to the nikon's feartures the digital rebel could very well be called crippled. Oh no, i called your camera crippled! Nikons lens options don't appeal to me and i'm not convinced their sensor is a good as the cmos so i will stick to canon and by this time next year I and many others on here will not own this camera, we will own the next model.
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

 
The only thing that makes this camera crippled is the lack of focus
lock, just try to lock focus on a brown dogs eye and recompose to
the middle of it's nose using the 50mm f1.8 at f/1.8, it's almost
impossible. I've tried two different cameras with the same result.
Send me yours i'm sure it works the same.

Pauly,
I think that there is an piece to piece variation in these cameras and its Canons quality control thats at fault. I do not have ANY problem with focus lock and recomposing [except maybe twice in 1500 images]. I am NOT saying that to blindly defend my "NEW BABY" as someone has said. I am merely pointing out a fact and am not defending Canon, infact since there seems to be so much variation they must improve QC. What does p* me off is the err99 that I get on and off. Otherwise I am really happy with the 300D. And incidently mine is made in JAPAN and not TAIWAN. Could that be a difference? The cameras soldin US are made in Taiwan.
 
The only thing that makes this camera crippled is the lack of focus
lock, just try to lock focus on a brown dogs eye and recompose to
the middle of it's nose using the 50mm f1.8 at f/1.8, it's almost
impossible. I've tried two different cameras with the same result.
Send me yours i'm sure it works the same.

Pauly,
I think that there is an piece to piece variation in these cameras
and its Canons quality control thats at fault. I do not have ANY
problem with focus lock and recomposing [except maybe twice in 1500
images]. I am NOT saying that to blindly defend my "NEW BABY" as
someone has said. I am merely pointing out a fact and am not
defending Canon, infact since there seems to be so much variation
they must improve QC. What does p* me off is the err99 that I
get on and off. Otherwise I am really happy with the 300D. And
incidently mine is made in JAPAN and not TAIWAN. Could that be a
difference? The cameras soldin US are made in Taiwan.
What lens are you using when you get error 99? Have you tried recomposeing using the 50mm f1.8 at f/1.8? The recomposing issues have a lot to do with the lens and the light, contrast of the subject. I sent a letter to canon about it, but have not heard back. I will simply upgrade when a new model comes out, but i did try a lady's i work with and it kicks into servo just as mine does. If you get an error 99 without a lens on the body then you need to worry. How often do you get the error?
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

 
Why do people get all upset over a piece of inanimate object? So what if someone says that your piece of inanimate object is crippled? Does it hurt your feeling?

My piece of inanimate object, the 300D, is crippled. So what. Most of us will probably dump this camera in a year or two and upgrade. Will we look back and feel good about being all upset over someone calling it crippled?

Years from now, what we will remember is the picture that we have taken. A memory last a lifetime, the camera, well, its just a piece of equipment.
John from Southern California
http://www.pbase.com/johnrweb/favorite
http://www.pbase.com/domdom
F707 and 300D
 
I have got err99 on two days, each day twice. Once with Sigma 70-300 APO [red ring] and once with the 18-55. Both times when I was shooting fast and I got a odd noise as if the shutter was faulty. Have not had it since so am hoping for the best.

I have recomposed even with the 50mm 1.8 lens and not had a problem with the servo kicking in. Infact I have done exactly what you have described, focus on an eye and recompose and shoot. Only the subject has been my daughter and not a dog. Think that makes a difference ;-) ?
The only thing that makes this camera crippled is the lack of focus
lock, just try to lock focus on a brown dogs eye and recompose to
the middle of it's nose using the 50mm f1.8 at f/1.8, it's almost
impossible. I've tried two different cameras with the same result.
Send me yours i'm sure it works the same.

Pauly,
I think that there is an piece to piece variation in these cameras
and its Canons quality control thats at fault. I do not have ANY
problem with focus lock and recomposing [except maybe twice in 1500
images]. I am NOT saying that to blindly defend my "NEW BABY" as
someone has said. I am merely pointing out a fact and am not
defending Canon, infact since there seems to be so much variation
they must improve QC. What does p* me off is the err99 that I
get on and off. Otherwise I am really happy with the 300D. And
incidently mine is made in JAPAN and not TAIWAN. Could that be a
difference? The cameras soldin US are made in Taiwan.
What lens are you using when you get error 99? Have you tried
recomposeing using the 50mm f1.8 at f/1.8? The recomposing issues
have a lot to do with the lens and the light, contrast of the
subject. I sent a letter to canon about it, but have not heard
back. I will simply upgrade when a new model comes out, but i did
try a lady's i work with and it kicks into servo just as mine does.
If you get an error 99 without a lens on the body then you need to
worry. How often do you get the error?
--
http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

--
Deepak

[email protected]
 
I've been hearing a lot of analogies to the "crippling" of the Digital Rebel, but none of them quite capture the essence of the Rebel's, shall we way, "limitations."

The analogy I'm about to offer isn't perfect either, but I think it illustrates the camera's limitations in a more appropriate context. When you buy a PC, it's perfectly capable of running (for example) Adobe Photoshop, but it won't actually be able to run Photoshop unless you pay more for that software. But all the necessary hardware is there! The PC is perfectly capable of running Photoshop! It must be crippled!

Obviously (well, hopefully) we don't use this sort of reasoning when considering a PC and its capabilities. A camera is slightly different because the hardware and software are sold as a unit, and (for the most part) the user doesn't have much choice about what software runs on it. (Incidentally, if Microsoft has its way, PCs of the future will be more like this, but that's a different story!)

Cheers,
Jeremy

--
Jeremy L. Rosenberger
http://users.frii.com/jeremy/
 
it's easier to call it crippled when you aren't shooting and
printing the photos...

for me, and the folks at the photo lab, nobody can tell I don't
have an FEC control... as a matter of fact, the last set I
printed earned some ohhhs and ahhhs from the people standing next
to me at the counter... (I love casually looking at my 8x10s when
there are others standing there... CCD prints don't compare to
CMOS prints... I know the CCD prints look sharper on the screen,
but on photo paper, there's a difference sharply in favor of the
CMOS)

if people wanted all those features, then they should have bought
the durn 10D or a used D30/D60...

bunch of ingrates if you ask me... after all, I got a 6.3 MP CMOS
DIGIC on an APS-C sized sensor for under $1k... no other camera
manufacturer did that... none of them

only reason Nikon put all those features on their D70 is because
it's a freakin nightmare to figure out what their cameras are
thinking... then again, maybe it's to obfuscate other problems...
or then again, it's probably because they are a year late out of
the gate...

Cheers!

JB
How many of the complainers rushed to pre-order a 300D before actually researching it and trying it before buying it? My 300D behaves just as I expected it would. --
Mike
 
People who spend $1,000 have more expectation than people who spend
$250. That's why you see lots of complaints from Digital Rebel
owners vs Film Rebel owners.
The Digital Rebel is to the 1D as the Film Rebel is to the Elan or the EOS-1 or -3. If people haven't done their research and understand this very simple concept, perhaps they shouldn't be spending $1000 on a camera, or maybe they should be buying a used 1D.

They should also know that Canon and others take names very seriously.

There is a reason it had Rebel in the name. If they don't understand this reason, too bad.

Meanwhile the rest of us are happy to have a Canon DSLR that takes great pictures, for under $1000.
 
I have got err99 on two days, each day twice. Once with Sigma
70-300 APO [red ring] and once with the 18-55. Both times when I
was shooting fast and I got a odd noise as if the shutter was
faulty. Have not had it since so am hoping for the best.

I have recomposed even with the 50mm 1.8 lens and not had a problem
with the servo kicking in. Infact I have done exactly what you have
described, focus on an eye and recompose and shoot. Only the
subject has been my daughter and not a dog. Think that makes a
difference ;-) ?
That's how mine started and it eventually got to where i couldn't take any pics with the error, they eventually replaced the shutter. Hopefully yours just got stuck a couple of times and is fine. Subject definately makes a difference as well as lighting, mine does it a lot with my 400mm lens at any aperture, with the 50mm f1.8 is does it bad inside my living room with very low light situation. Yours sounds like it is less sensitive, not sure if that is really possible since they didn't adjust mine when i had the shutter replaced.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top