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Nikon Capture should be free

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How do I know you know what you're talking about when you don't even have a web gallery? After all the proof is in the pictures. ;)

Cassandra
Cassandra said:
Cassandra
Iliah Borg said:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=ShowProduct&kw=KOCSGS&Q=&O=&sku=26662

It consists of 2 parts - gray scale (described in xls), and color
separation guide, fairly meaningless nowdays.
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no text
Click to expand...
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http://www.pbase.com/cassandra
Click to expand...
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http://www.pbase.com/cassandra
 
Cassandra59044 said:
So how does your chart correlate with Q-13?
Click to expand...
The lightest patch on the gray scale is 0.1D (density). The patches go in 1/3 eV, or 0.1D steps, covering dynamic range of 6 stops.

The middle patch, marked "M", is 0.7D, or 20% reflectance, that is the calibration point aka "middle gray".

If you put Q13 into the scene, and than bring the scene to PS, you would be able to use curves for accurate reproduction of the scene, based on the values in the column marked with your editing space gamma (2.2 for Adobe/sRGB, 1.8 for Apple, for example).

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Ah, yes makes perfect sense now. But wouldn't an 18% gray card or even a black/white/gray card work also?

Cassandra
Iliah Borg said:
Iliah Borg said:
So how does your chart correlate with Q-13?
Click to expand...
The lightest patch on the gray scale is 0.1D (density). The patches
go in 1/3 eV, or 0.1D steps, covering dynamic range of 6 stops.

The middle patch, marked "M", is 0.7D, or 20% reflectance, that is
the calibration point aka "middle gray".

If you put Q13 into the scene, and than bring the scene to PS, you
would be able to use curves for accurate reproduction of the scene,
based on the values in the column marked with your editing space
gamma (2.2 for Adobe/sRGB, 1.8 for Apple, for example).

--
no text
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/cassandra
 
Cassandra said:
Ah, yes makes perfect sense now. But wouldn't an 18% gray card or
even a black/white/gray card work also?
Click to expand...
For this purpose, no. Gray scale is a very important tool for eye training in regards to exposure compensation. It also helps to establish the tonality of the image in post-processing. Now, it is a gross misconcept that given very uneven color rendition of the output from digital cameras, it is possible to establish correct tonality and color balance based on 1 or 3 points.

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Cassandra said:
Equipment collectors and tech geeks abound in these forums! :D
Doesn't anyone enjoy taking pictures and displaying them anymore? ;)
Click to expand...
Oh yes. My equipment collection started with my grand-grand father, who was a photographer in a small city in Ukrain. As of the pictures, I print them :)

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no text
 
a very dedicated photographer. It's just too bad I can't see any of your pictures! ;0 Time to say good night...

Cassandra
Iliah Borg said:
Cassandra said:
Ah, yes makes perfect sense now. But wouldn't an 18% gray card or
even a black/white/gray card work also?
Click to expand...
For this purpose, no. Gray scale is a very important tool for eye
training in regards to exposure compensation. It also helps to
establish the tonality of the image in post-processing. Now, it is
a gross misconcept that given very uneven color rendition of the
output from digital cameras, it is possible to establish correct
tonality and color balance based on 1 or 3 points.

--
no text
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/cassandra
 
I had minor issues with NC4.0, notably the bug Nikon created with Nikon View 6.2.1 (NEF rotation corrupted files when attempting to view with NC4.0). The upgrade to NC4.1 went perfectly, and I've no complaints. I work almost exclusively Nikon View 6.2.1 to Nikon Capture 4.1, since the Batch conversions from NEF to JPGs -- with resizing and conversion to sRGB -- are so simple. I much prefer Nikon's batch mode to PS 6 (I'm sure PS/CS is a vast improvement...). I use Windows XP Home on a Toshiba P4 laptop.

My only issues with Nikon software now are that they periodically screw up the profile assigned to my images; when both NC and NV are open, occasionally my images will suddenly act as if the profile has changed (become grossly oversaturated). I simply close NC/NV and re-open to fix it. I guess I'm so used to bugs now, that this doesn't bother me.

Chris
Cassandra said:
Cassandra
paulfrye said:
I'll jump into the fray, here, too.

Like most folks who came to a DSLR for the first time I was used to
using jpegs. When I changed to NEF, the rules changed. I tried
all the different ways one could initially process a NEF. I'm a
Mac user primarily and Capture was a true dog in the 3xx versions,
especially for Mac OSX.

After checking them all, it was still apparent that the best
processing came from the Nikon Capture program and in my opinion
still does. At the same time, the Nikon software development team
has been working very hard to make improvements. On the Mac side,
each change actually became quicker, with added features, and less
bugs. I haven't tried the Windows version for awhile. NV 6.2.1
and NC 4.1 are much much improved over previous versions. (with a
few quirks still left, but these products fast maturing). The
multi-file feature in the new NC 4.1 alone justifies its cost.

As a result I'm now doing my processing almost primarily in a Nikon
View/Capture workflow, with just a couple of tweaks and resizing in
Photoshop. I am about to abandon using jpegs entirely except as a
final web output, because the performance has improved so much and
the jpegs are actually slowing me down in the Nef + jpeg mode.

On my Mac which is a 14 month old 1.25 GHz DP running Panther (OS X
10.32), the NEFs open in Capture in 3-4 seconds. On my Powerbook
they take about 7-8 seconds. Performance is not the issue it was
in previous versions. (Sorry I can't speak for PC users).

As an aside, at the same time, improvements in PS CS allow me to
open the NEF files using Adobe's Capture Raw program almost
instantaneously. A little over a year ago Adobe didn't even have a
plug-in to do this.

Bottom line. Nikon provides a very nice previewing, cataloging,
and limited processing program free with their cameras (Nikon View
and Capture Edit). And most amateurs don't need Capture, but can
certainly use PS or PS elements.

Capture is a professional's tool and competes with Adobe and
several other companies who make fine products which have been
mentioned on this forum many times. Many of those products cost
more than Capture and if Capture were given away so would the
after-market for a bunch of those products. Again, amateurs don't
necessarily need Capture.

Nikon has spent real money with real people developing NC. It does
get better with each release. Certainly you should check out the
latest versions and/or take a little time to read the manual which
is online.

As for performance on your PC, think about how much money you are
spending on your camera and lenses to get great pictures. A
computer is also part of the equation in digital processing.

Regards,

Paul
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/cassandra
Click to expand...
 
There are other options as I understand it. Use View or Photoshop's RAW converter. From what I have seen Capture is far more sophisticated. and can do most of the necessary editing without full blown Photoshop. I would rather have the choice and the option to try it and see if it meets my needs than pay for it with the camera (and every camera at that remember that people that buy multiple cameras would have to pay for with every purchase if the price was included in the camera).

If it is good then I'll buy it, if not, at least Nikon had the decency to let me tell them to "keep it"

--
Just my nickels worth.
Happy Snappin'!

Ron
----------------------------------------------------
http://www.pbase.com/recalcitrantron
FCAS Member No. 68
pbase supporter
Coolpix 45 Hundred
 
motofoto said:
we're seeing more of this downstream marketing from all the
manufacturers ... with the D100 you really need the NC ($100) if
you plan to shoot RAW, and the AC adapter ($100) if you plan to
clean your own CCD.

so add another $200 bucks to the initial purchase price.
Click to expand...
Well, no. I have been using Nikon View and Nikon Edit and Photoshop. You do not really have to have Capture for RAW. But it is nice and worth the $99. The other camera makers who provide a free software package do a lousy job from all reports and Nikon Capture seems to be better than the very expensive third party options you are stuck with if you have a Canon for instance.

I have to agree about the AC adaptor, but it is Nikon's policy to not have you clean it yourself. But then again it is like having to buy your own shutter release cable. That is not included either.
 
Cassandra said:
Thanks Paul. Anyone using NC 4.1 on a PC care to comment?

Cassandra
Click to expand...
I find Capture excellent and quite frankly don't understand why people complain about it's performance. I run it on a notebook with 1.4 GHz pentium and 512MB RAM (as well as my "proper" PC and its performance is totally acceptable, if not always instantaneous ;)

If I want to run a big batch job, I set it off and go and do something else. Maybe some people prefer to watch it :O

Jason
 
Cassandra said:
Okay boys enough already! I've seen more flaming here in one day
than I saw in 2+ years in three other forums put together! I for
one am not making a dime from my photography, so it can get pretty
expensive. I don't think it's unreasonable to want camera
manufacturers to supply halfway decent software for viewing and
editing RAW files, then perhaps charge money for a more
feature-packed editing program. If you don't like my opinion then
b*te me! :D

Cassandra
--
http://www.pbase.com/cassandra
Click to expand...
How do you know they are all boys? ;)

I think the point is that Nikon View is free and offers basic NEF editing (look at it, it's a free download and offers a lot of extra features for file transfer - see my post above). You can also shoot in jpreg and use whatever editing program you like. You can also buy Capture and get more advanced editing features. Sounds exactly what you asked for! :)

I think you will find a lot of people write off NV for editing because they still think of it in terms of what it was 2 years ago when it was purely a transfer and viewing program.

Quick list of features now includes:
General Adjustments (Contrast, Sharpening and "Effects")
Red Eye Correction
Colour Balance
Exposure and White Balance Adjustment
Crop
Multiple File Conversion

Quite frankly, as an amateur, this covers what I do to approximately 98% of my photos anyway.

Cheers, Jason (a boy)
 
...or at least they should fix Nikon Editor so that it can save in NEF format.

But I still think that when buying an expensive DSLR (from D100 upwards) the Capture-editor that gives you so much more image-quality as a result should be included. Compared to (free) editors of other brands I've worked with, the Nikon editor-series already is top-notch. Including them both for free would be a great deal.
--
CHEERS!
 
chris3010 said:
My only issues with Nikon software now are that they periodically
screw up the profile assigned to my images; when both NC and NV are
open, occasionally my images will suddenly act as if the profile
has changed (become grossly oversaturated). I simply close NC/NV
and re-open to fix it. I guess I'm so used to bugs now, that this
doesn't bother me.

Chris
Cassandra said:
Cassandra
paulfrye said:
I'll jump into the fray, here, too.

Like most folks who came to a DSLR for the first time I was used to
using jpegs. When I changed to NEF, the rules changed. I tried
all the different ways one could initially process a NEF. I'm a
Mac user primarily and Capture was a true dog in the 3xx versions,
especially for Mac OSX.

After checking them all, it was still apparent that the best
processing came from the Nikon Capture program and in my opinion
still does. At the same time, the Nikon software development team
has been working very hard to make improvements. On the Mac side,
each change actually became quicker, with added features, and less
bugs. I haven't tried the Windows version for awhile. NV 6.2.1
and NC 4.1 are much much improved over previous versions. (with a
few quirks still left, but these products fast maturing). The
multi-file feature in the new NC 4.1 alone justifies its cost.

As a result I'm now doing my processing almost primarily in a Nikon
View/Capture workflow, with just a couple of tweaks and resizing in
Photoshop. I am about to abandon using jpegs entirely except as a
final web output, because the performance has improved so much and
the jpegs are actually slowing me down in the Nef + jpeg mode.

On my Mac which is a 14 month old 1.25 GHz DP running Panther (OS X
10.32), the NEFs open in Capture in 3-4 seconds. On my Powerbook
they take about 7-8 seconds. Performance is not the issue it was
in previous versions. (Sorry I can't speak for PC users).

As an aside, at the same time, improvements in PS CS allow me to
open the NEF files using Adobe's Capture Raw program almost
instantaneously. A little over a year ago Adobe didn't even have a
plug-in to do this.

Bottom line. Nikon provides a very nice previewing, cataloging,
and limited processing program free with their cameras (Nikon View
and Capture Edit). And most amateurs don't need Capture, but can
certainly use PS or PS elements.

Capture is a professional's tool and competes with Adobe and
several other companies who make fine products which have been
mentioned on this forum many times. Many of those products cost
more than Capture and if Capture were given away so would the
after-market for a bunch of those products. Again, amateurs don't
necessarily need Capture.

Nikon has spent real money with real people developing NC. It does
get better with each release. Certainly you should check out the
latest versions and/or take a little time to read the manual which
is online.

As for performance on your PC, think about how much money you are
spending on your camera and lenses to get great pictures. A
computer is also part of the equation in digital processing.

Regards,

Paul
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/cassandra
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/cassandra
 
99% of the time it is boys who like to argue for the sake of argument. I grew up with four brothers and raised two sons so I know this! :D

I will dl NV and give it a try when my D70 arrives.

Cassandra
J_Pia said:
How do you know they are all boys? ;)

I think the point is that Nikon View is free and offers basic NEF
editing (look at it, it's a free download and offers a lot of extra
features for file transfer - see my post above). You can also shoot
in jpreg and use whatever editing program you like. You can also
buy Capture and get more advanced editing features. Sounds exactly
what you asked for! :)

I think you will find a lot of people write off NV for editing
because they still think of it in terms of what it was 2 years ago
when it was purely a transfer and viewing program.

Quick list of features now includes:
General Adjustments (Contrast, Sharpening and "Effects")
Red Eye Correction
Colour Balance
Exposure and White Balance Adjustment
Crop
Multiple File Conversion

Quite frankly, as an amateur, this covers what I do to
approximately 98% of my photos anyway.

Cheers, Jason (a boy)
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/cassandra
 
. . . I mean, what good is a camera without a lens? What's up with THAT!

Yeah, so every camera should come with a good lens. For free.

Unless I already have that lens. Or I don't need it. Then they shouldn't include it.

And if they don't include it, they should reduce the price of the camera by the amount they jacked it up in the first place for the "free" lens.

Come to think of it, don't include anything! I'll just decide for myself what I want.
 
Brian Li said:
Pentax also has a free remote control s/w for its DSLR camera, why
Nikon still charge us for the Capture!
Click to expand...
... and add a touch of miserlyness ~ Nikon make and have made cheap products that were underspecified as to the competition

Canon for instance are not only giving a free equivalent of NC4 with their new MK11 but are also allowing previous 1D owners to upgrade for FREE.

When I got my 1D (having got rid of a D1x) I able to use the camera out of the box because the mains adapter was supplied as standard for instance, these are the touches that separate the quality manufacturers from all the rest.
 
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