Okay...I was ALL excited about the D70 until....

I started seeing these greenish daylight pictures...I was kind of hoping that the problem was just operator error, but pictures with casts like this: http://www.pbase.com/image/26865840
are really giving me concern.

I know the D70 has a choice or choices for setting hue. Is it possible to change the default so that you don't have to look at something like this straight out of the camera?

Isabel
--
http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/
pBase supporter

without knowing what kind of day it was, you really shouldnt be blaming the camera for the green. That looks like pollution to me, his other day images are good quality.

Don't worry - haven't seen one green picture yet in the first 300 shots, and even if the problem did exist:

a) it is probably be a auto white balance issue - not hard to shoot manual
b) if you shoot NEF you can fix it later, and shooting NEF on this baby is easy

c) even if it wasnt easy, colour correction aint exactly hard in this day and age.

Every camera has issues, and this one seems like a non-issue to me. You get a hell of a camera for your money. If you are looking for perfection though, you will always be disappointed.

I have had far less white balance issues with the D70 than with my Sony F717.

regards,

David F.
Melbourne Australia.

Allow me to guess, Isabel.

All "greenish" pictures we've seen so far come from the South East Asian countries - Singapore, Malaysia and the Phillipines (Daniel's from there). We've been having really dull, cloudy days for the past few weeks in Malaysia, and I can only imagine it has been the same in Singapore, not too sure about the Phillipines though.

FWIW, some of Daniel's other architectural shots taken with his Fuji S2 Pro appear bluish-greenish too, although they've been taken sometime ago:
http://www.pbase.com/image/25089531
http://www.pbase.com/image/25089794

Pollution? Weather? Postprocessing? I'm not too sure. Browsing through Pbase's 300D pics, I chance across a greenish picture, in Hong Kong:
http://www.pbase.com/image/23975306
Eyedropping the boat's hull, and greens seem to have an additional bias.

Actually, depending where you eyedrop Daniel's pic, the whites seem quite OK. It's the sky that shows quite a lot of green, and that could probably boil down to the properties of the atmosphere / air / lighting we're having over here in Asia at the moment.

The pics taken in this thread shows no such greenish cast (location where the pics are taken is not in Asia):
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=7965362

Hope this provides some food for thought.

Isabel Cutler said:

Isabel
--
http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/
pBase supporter

Click to expand...

--
Rgds,
David, C P 4 5 0 0 (see profile for more info)
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
C.P.5.4.0.0 - Personal Experiences :>
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/cp5400_experiences

Isabel Cutler said:

I started seeing these greenish daylight pictures...I was kind of
hoping that the problem was just operator error, but pictures with
casts like this: http://www.pbase.com/image/26865840
are really giving me concern.

I know the D70 has a choice or choices for setting hue. Is it
possible to change the default so that you don't have to look at
something like this straight out of the camera?

Isabel
--
http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/
pBase supporter

Click to expand...

As others have posted, although this might indicate some slight weakness in the AWB, really there are too few shots with this problem to make this assumption.

But let's assume for the sake of argument that you are correct, and that there is a consistent problem with a slight greenish cast - if the problem indeed is consistent, then the solution is so trivial that it is not worth worrying about at all - you certainly would not need to bother shooting in RAW or anything to correct it, a minor tweak set up as a batch action and applied to all your shots and you are fine!

Really, Isabel, as others have said, it doesn't matter what you pay for a camera, you are never going to buy perfection!
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment

Hi David! I have to agree with the pollution/overcast skies reasoning on all these pics we've seen come out of the SE Asia region, and until Daniel can verify this, that's my opinion, and I' stickin' to it. The Aussie pics have nice blue skies in them. Put away your fears.

David Chin said:

Allow me to guess, Isabel.

All "greenish" pictures we've seen so far come from the South East
Asian countries - Singapore, Malaysia and the Phillipines (Daniel's
from there). We've been having really dull, cloudy days for the
past few weeks in Malaysia, and I can only imagine it has been the
same in Singapore, not too sure about the Phillipines though.

FWIW, some of Daniel's other architectural shots taken with his
Fuji S2 Pro appear bluish-greenish too, although they've been taken
sometime ago:
http://www.pbase.com/image/25089531
http://www.pbase.com/image/25089794

Pollution? Weather? Postprocessing? I'm not too sure. Browsing
through Pbase's 300D pics, I chance across a greenish picture, in
Hong Kong:
http://www.pbase.com/image/23975306
Eyedropping the boat's hull, and greens seem to have an additional
bias.

Actually, depending where you eyedrop Daniel's pic, the whites seem
quite OK. It's the sky that shows quite a lot of green, and that
could probably boil down to the properties of the atmosphere / air
/ lighting we're having over here in Asia at the moment.

The pics taken in this thread shows no such greenish cast (location
where the pics are taken is not in Asia):
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=7965362

Hope this provides some food for thought.

Click to expand...

It's refreshing to hear from people who haven't had the problem!
I really want to get the D70.

About the reported underexposure which has come up several times...I'm glad for that...certainly it will keep us from getting burnt out highlights...we can always lighten the pics!
Isabel

David Martin said:

Isabel Cutler said:

I started seeing these greenish daylight pictures...I was kind of
hoping that the problem was just operator error, but pictures with
casts like this: http://www.pbase.com/image/26865840
are really giving me concern.

I know the D70 has a choice or choices for setting hue. Is it
possible to change the default so that you don't have to look at
something like this straight out of the camera?

Isabel
--
http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/
pBase supporter

Click to expand...

As others have posted, although this might indicate some slight
weakness in the AWB, really there are too few shots with this
problem to make this assumption.
But let's assume for the sake of argument that you are correct, and
that there is a consistent problem with a slight greenish cast - if
the problem indeed is consistent, then the solution is so trivial
that it is not worth worrying about at all - you certainly would
not need to bother shooting in RAW or anything to correct it, a
minor tweak set up as a batch action and applied to all your shots
and you are fine!
Really, Isabel, as others have said, it doesn't matter what you pay
for a camera, you are never going to buy perfection!
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/
pBase supporter

to pick one of Daniel's pictures without praising the many good ones in his collection...but I think many of us on the cusp of our first dslr decision are a bit edgy about making the right decision. I apologize, Daniel!
Isabel

Isabel Cutler said:

About the reported underexposure which has come up several
times...I'm glad for that...certainly it will keep us from getting
burnt out highlights...we can always lighten the pics!
Isabel

David Martin said:

Isabel Cutler said:

I started seeing these greenish daylight pictures...I was kind of
hoping that the problem was just operator error, but pictures with
casts like this: http://www.pbase.com/image/26865840
are really giving me concern.

I know the D70 has a choice or choices for setting hue. Is it
possible to change the default so that you don't have to look at
something like this straight out of the camera?

Isabel
--
http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/
pBase supporter

Click to expand...

As others have posted, although this might indicate some slight
weakness in the AWB, really there are too few shots with this
problem to make this assumption.
But let's assume for the sake of argument that you are correct, and
that there is a consistent problem with a slight greenish cast - if
the problem indeed is consistent, then the solution is so trivial
that it is not worth worrying about at all - you certainly would
not need to bother shooting in RAW or anything to correct it, a
minor tweak set up as a batch action and applied to all your shots
and you are fine!
Really, Isabel, as others have said, it doesn't matter what you pay
for a camera, you are never going to buy perfection!
--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/
pBase supporter

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/
pBase supporter

Disclaimer: This is not in nay way meant to put down any consumer level camera.

It's my opinion that nikon would never let one of their DSLRs be released without having thoroughly tested it for color accuracy by taking 10's of 1000's of test shots. Beyond the oversaturated reds, there's is no way this camera is going to have some oddball overall colorcast to it, like one "might" see in a lessor cost consumer level camera, esp in days of old. That just isn't gonna happen. They have far too much riding on the success of this camera (think many lens sales) to let such an obvious, glaring mistake slip through their QC channels.
--
Steve S
http://www.pbase.com/sshyone

... and not to confuse anyone... Could it be a matter of "familarity"? Steve and David, you guys might remember when I first got my 5400, I notice a green cast (even with manual WB) and I was trying very hard to make the "look" of the 5400 to match the 5700.... I even came up with my own "warming cards"!

Sometime ago, a Fuji S2 user emailed me and asked me how to correct the green cast in the S2. I thought it was a WB issue and when I saw the shootout in Imaging Resource, I also notice the cast....

I suppose every CCD has a different colour cast, just a matter of which one suit you, or which one you will get used to (just like my 5400).... On that note, one might say that the D100 has a "reddish" cast ))

Steven S said:

David Chin said:

Allow me to guess, Isabel.

All "greenish" pictures we've seen so far come from the South East
Asian countries - Singapore, Malaysia and the Phillipines (Daniel's
from there). We've been having really dull, cloudy days for the
past few weeks in Malaysia, and I can only imagine it has been the
same in Singapore, not too sure about the Phillipines though.

FWIW, some of Daniel's other architectural shots taken with his
Fuji S2 Pro appear bluish-greenish too, although they've been taken
sometime ago:
http://www.pbase.com/image/25089531
http://www.pbase.com/image/25089794

Pollution? Weather? Postprocessing? I'm not too sure. Browsing
through Pbase's 300D pics, I chance across a greenish picture, in
Hong Kong:
http://www.pbase.com/image/23975306
Eyedropping the boat's hull, and greens seem to have an additional
bias.

Actually, depending where you eyedrop Daniel's pic, the whites seem
quite OK. It's the sky that shows quite a lot of green, and that
could probably boil down to the properties of the atmosphere / air
/ lighting we're having over here in Asia at the moment.

The pics taken in this thread shows no such greenish cast (location
where the pics are taken is not in Asia):
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=7965362

Hope this provides some food for thought.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Regit Young, FCAS Member, PBase Supporter
48 species caught, 802 species to go ...
'Seeing and interpreting are entirely personal processes' - Steve Parish
http://www.pbase.com/regit

at startup, just like I did to my my D2H, then go from there. Will probably even try +.5 or +.7 as default.
--
Steve S
http://www.pbase.com/sshyone

Isabel,

I was having the same thoughts about the pictures coming from the far east regarding the green cast on some of the pictures but not all of them, then I saw an album from Jaco in Belgium which showed no sign of any cast in the european light.

Take a look here: http://www.belgiumdigital.com/

I think the title is Jacos surprise album.

I have noticed over the year that I have owned my D100 that people from different parts of the world use differing WB settings which are appropriate fro the light in that region, for example cloudy -3 seems to be popular in North America but on my D100 in England Cloudy -3 is too warm for my liking and I now use Cloudy +2 for most outdoor shooting.

I think maybe as people find the settings that work best for them on the D70 we will start to see more of a uniform output.

Regards.

Brian.

Isabel Cutler said:

to pick one of Daniel's pictures without praising the many good
ones in his collection...but I think many of us on the cusp of our
first dslr decision are a bit edgy about making the right decision.
I apologize, Daniel!
Isabel

.

Click to expand...

is more likely several ppl's choice of, (and I'm not naming names here ;c) their default setting of Cloudy -3, isn't it? ;c) Or is that +3? :/

--
Steve S
http://www.pbase.com/sshyone

Ok, it's "-2" !!! And that's just because, as someone just commented, Australia has deep blue sky ))

Steven S said:

is more likely several ppl's choice of, (and I'm not naming names
here ;c) their default setting of Cloudy -3, isn't it? ;c) Or is
that +3? :/

--
Steve S
http://www.pbase.com/sshyone

Click to expand...

--
Regit Young, FCAS Member, PBase Supporter
48 species caught, 802 species to go ...
'Seeing and interpreting are entirely personal processes' - Steve Parish
http://www.pbase.com/regit

... not a colour cast? (I remember how we loved, and still love "warm" colours )

I'm actually asking that of myself too. The 5400 definitely has a different colour balance to it compared with the 4500 / 5700. The 4500 is great for capturing flora / fauna, not too great for skin tones. I prefer the 5400 for skin tones, but flora / fauna taken with it somehow seem to have less "pop".

Coming back to the D70 / D100. I'm not too familiar with the D100 because I haven't seen as many full-sized pics from it as I have from the D70. And it is my personal opinion that I really, really like the D70 pictures from all aspects, colour balance, tonality, contrast, sharpness & definition - simply amazing.

I think you're right about "familiarity" - personal preferences weigh in very heavily here:

Examples of my personal perception of pictures from other DSLRs:
=========================================

D2H - yellowish skin tones with flash, but I've seen PERFECT skin tones with D2H too. Ultra-high acutance and sharpness

D100 - pretty similar colours compared to the 4500 / 5700, so, no complaints from me ). JPEGs slightly softer than the D70's.

10D / 300D - yellowish skin tones with flash. Bokeh-ed highlights have too much cyan in them which I don't like. Too harsh a transition into highlights.

To cut a long story short, yes, I agree with your theory ).

Regit Young said:

... and not to confuse anyone... Could it be a matter of
"familarity"? Steve and David, you guys might remember when I first
got my 5400, I notice a green cast (even with manual WB) and I was
trying very hard to make the "look" of the 5400 to match the
5700.... I even came up with my own "warming cards"!

Sometime ago, a Fuji S2 user emailed me and asked me how to correct
the green cast in the S2. I thought it was a WB issue and when I
saw the shootout in Imaging Resource, I also notice the cast....

I suppose every CCD has a different colour cast, just a matter of
which one suit you, or which one you will get used to (just like my
5400).... On that note, one might say that the D100 has a "reddish"
cast ))

Click to expand...

Regit Young said:

--
Regit Young, FCAS Member, PBase Supporter
48 species caught, 802 species to go ...
'Seeing and interpreting are entirely personal processes' - Steve
Parish
http://www.pbase.com/regit

Click to expand...

--
Rgds,
David, C P 4 5 0 0 (see profile for more info)
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
C.P.5.4.0.0 - Personal Experiences :>
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/cp5400_experiences

Isabel Cutler said:

It's refreshing to hear from people who haven't had the problem!
I really want to get the D70.

About the reported underexposure which has come up several
times...I'm glad for that...certainly it will keep us from getting
burnt out highlights...we can always lighten the pics!
Isabel

Click to expand...

What I've been pondering is, with D100/D70 having more noise in the shadows, is underexposing really that good a thing? I.e. if you have to expand the histograms of the underexposed NEF or JPEG pics from the cam, noise should come out as even more noticeable? Right? Better to tweak the exposure up properly, directly in the camera?

--
jw

Isabel Cutler said:

first dslr decision are a bit edgy about making the right decision.

Click to expand...

I am also buying my first DSLR - in fact I have not had any SLR let alone digital.

I have owned:

• Some kind of Epson sub 1meg pix camera
• Olympus C3000z
• Canon iXus v3
• Canon iXus 400
• Nikon Coolpix 5700

So I need to move on and get the DSLR, I have the iXus 400 for carrying around everywhere and take fabulous shots (its a perfect 4 meg pix point and shoot).

My decision to get the D70 was simple, it's a Nikon, its affordable. Nikon needs to get this one right, it needs to kill the Digital Rebel in the market for anyone like us who don't have a stock pile of Canon lenses etc. I am confident that Nikon will not shoot themselves in the foot and the sample pics I have seen, the reviews I have read all seem to confirm this. I definatly loved my 5700 that I now sold to help pay for the D70.

For the price I do not think you can expect the perfect DSLR. But what you will undoubtably get is a excellent quality camera from a reputable company who has a lot at stake in this camera. It has all the manual control you would want - more than the Digital Rebel and this is why I am going for the D70.

(And it is black, but thats just asthetics, that silver digital rebel looks like a toy)

--
R.I.Pienaar
http://gallery.devco.net/rip/
http://www.devco.net/

--
Steve S
http://www.pbase.com/sshyone

that if I use a minus ev setting (underexpose) because I need to get a higher shutter speed, when I lighten up I will have more noise!
I'm getting lots of practice with Neat Image and Noise Ninja.
Isabel

http://www.pBase.com/isabel95
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Digipets/
pBase supporter

Indeed personal preference has a lot to do with it

I felt that a lot of "issues" are just a matter of preference-mismatch. Like noise, colour, sharpness, etc. This is especially amplified in the D70 cases. Many users have just decided to embark on a long and expensive system investment. And all of them would like to "think" that they are getting the best (or best-bang for the money); and whenever someone raise a "personal preference-mismatch" issue, it immediately become a problem!!!

One man religion becomes everyone's crusade (right phrase?)

I guess it is only natural for everyone to worry about what their hard-earned money is buying ... But I will pass on my personal motto here nonetheless .... "Buy now, shot immediately, worry later"

David Chin said:

I'm actually asking that of myself too. The 5400 definitely has a
different colour balance to it compared with the 4500 / 5700. The
4500 is great for capturing flora / fauna, not too great for skin
tones. I prefer the 5400 for skin tones, but flora / fauna taken
with it somehow seem to have less "pop".

Coming back to the D70 / D100. I'm not too familiar with the D100
because I haven't seen as many full-sized pics from it as I have
from the D70. And it is my personal opinion that I really, really
like the D70 pictures from all aspects, colour balance, tonality,
contrast, sharpness & definition - simply amazing.

I think you're right about "familiarity" - personal preferences
weigh in very heavily here:

Examples of my personal perception of pictures from other DSLRs:
=========================================
D2H - yellowish skin tones with flash, but I've seen PERFECT skin
tones with D2H too. Ultra-high acutance and sharpness

D100 - pretty similar colours compared to the 4500 / 5700, so, no
complaints from me ). JPEGs slightly softer than the D70's.

10D / 300D - yellowish skin tones with flash. Bokeh-ed highlights
have too much cyan in them which I don't like. Too harsh a
transition into highlights.

To cut a long story short, yes, I agree with your theory ).

Regit Young said:

... and not to confuse anyone... Could it be a matter of
"familarity"? Steve and David, you guys might remember when I first
got my 5400, I notice a green cast (even with manual WB) and I was
trying very hard to make the "look" of the 5400 to match the
5700.... I even came up with my own "warming cards"!

Sometime ago, a Fuji S2 user emailed me and asked me how to correct
the green cast in the S2. I thought it was a WB issue and when I
saw the shootout in Imaging Resource, I also notice the cast....

I suppose every CCD has a different colour cast, just a matter of
which one suit you, or which one you will get used to (just like my
5400).... On that note, one might say that the D100 has a "reddish"
cast ))

Click to expand...

David Chin said:

--
Regit Young, FCAS Member, PBase Supporter
48 species caught, 802 species to go ...
'Seeing and interpreting are entirely personal processes' - Steve
Parish
http://www.pbase.com/regit

Click to expand...

--
Rgds,
David, C P 4 5 0 0 (see profile for more info)
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/
C.P.5.4.0.0 - Personal Experiences :>
http://www.pbase.com/dlcmh/cp5400_experiences

Click to expand...

--
Regit Young, FCAS Member, PBase Supporter
48 species caught, 802 species to go ...
'Seeing and interpreting are entirely personal processes' - Steve Parish
http://www.pbase.com/regit