Who is kidding who re Sony T1 ?

c3pio · Mar 8, 2004

Maybe we ought to make direct actual pictures comparisons
between the T1 and other digicams such as the Optio 555,
SD100, etc. A picture is worth a thousands words or messages and
we ought to settle it by actual test results. We need to know how
many percentage the image quality got affected with a sensor
of certain size given somewhat similar amplification circuitry
as well as the size and weight of the object itself.

First let us mention shutter speed. The following is comparisons
between shutter speed of different aperture in actual testing in
low light using the 717 reference.

F2.0 = 1/2 sec
F2.8 = 1 sec
F3.5 = 1.6

The T1 is F3.5 so in low light shot, it will take 0.6 sec longer than
the Optio 555 at F2.8 or just about any super compact which can
only reach a maximum of F2.8.

Now you have to plug in statistics and show how many micropulsations
of hand shakes occur in between 1 sec and 1.6 sec and the magntitude
of the shakes. Any mathematician can show an actual example?

Let's go to sensor size and noise. How many additional noises
or strength of it for a smaller 1/2.5" sensor versus the normal 1/1.8"
in the W1, Optio 555, G500, and other super compacts. Here one
can share shots in low light between the T1 and Optio 555 at equal
settings and plug the pictures in a good image processing program to
actually count the noise values and plot the results.

Let's to the sizes and weight of the digicams in question. If you hold
a heavier Optio 555 and lighter and thinner T1. What's the physiological
process that occurs... like how many muscle parts in the hands,
shoulders are in tension when holding each of them and which is
more stable and why and the percentage difference between them. One
must calculate the amount and know the optimum geometric and
gravitional center in question.

Now add each partial analytical results and see how they contribute to
the total shaking thresholds. This can enable us to understand how worse
is the T1 shake versus the Optio 555 and whether it has a real impact
in real world and in actual image acquisition.

Come on. Let's settle the T1 low light issues with lab tests and formulas
and not emotional attachments and personal bias.

matt

highsector said:
another few years down the road, when something smaller, slimmer,
better megapixel comes out which is equivalent to 35mm quality,
when digital has surpassed film, nobody will ever talk about the T1
anymore.

im still waiting for that camera, perhaps another 3 years?
sorry, but i cant accept the T1. true, i will console myself by
hypnoptizing myself how good the T1 is if i still have that camera.
but now i dont have it, the condemnation has began.

George Lechter said:

I have noticed that MAKING AN EFFORT TO HOLD IT STEADY while gently
pressing the shutter makes a big difference.

A lot of people are simply clutzy...and when they "take the
picture" they make a Nike V sign showing that the picture has been
taken, to others and to themselves.

I bet you that this "happy" and "jerky" style of movement (my wife
is like that she drops every thing she touches) is responsible for
SO many blurry shots.

nonamebrand said:

highsector said:

look there is a kodak moment, oh wait, lemme set the speed burst,
ah, set the aperture, wait, i almost forget to adjust the p mode
and be perfectly still, hopefully the wind is not going to blow the
t1 away, erh.. what am i shooting? the kodak moment has passed by..

Starboard said:

highsector said:

i rather get smallest aps camera like ixus III than T1. have u go
to pbase.com and see the t1 pictures? i owned a t1 before...

Click to expand...

Yes. http://www.pbase.com/image/26678460
For a F3.5 Digital Camera, and limited flash, the indoor images are
not too bad. Read the T1 specification/instruction and shoot at
indoor condition accordingly. I know I cannot shoot from end zone
to end zone in a football field at night. Maybe some other camera
can. Good luck in finding such camera. I have a Cannon 300D and the
T1 compliments the portability.

Voodoo Magic

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

silversport · Mar 8, 2004

Chronis said:
Chronis said:

Chronis said:

The V1, Sony's flagship at the 5MP compact range. Nothing special,
not really recommended by many reviewers

Click to expand...

except here...did you READ Dave's Review??? (highly recommended!)

Click to expand...

I have indeed. Look carefully at the end of the "Compared to"
sections. Sony fails to win in any substantial aspect (substantial
to the quality picture taker) against the Canon and Nikon.

Ok...that proves YOU like Canon and Nikon better. Your statement was it is "Nothing special, not really recommended by many reviewers..." My response was "except here...did you READ Dave's (sic...Phil's) Review??? (highly recommended!) perhaps he was just one of the "not really recommended by many reviewers"???

Chronis said:
Chronis said:

Chronis said:

The F828, its much hyped flaship at the 8MP DSLR substitute rage
(the purple lady). A real fiasco with tons of CA and noise (heavy
and bulky as many an SLR).

Click to expand...

Tons??? You mean on some photos???

Click to expand...

On some?....well yes on the ones that count and the ones you would
not like to see any.

I guess YOU had a bad experience. Sorry for that but how are others getting some I'd like to see anyway???

Please feel free to pick and choose what parts of my response you would like to twist and distort and re-form for your own purposes.
Some people here actually like what they have and are enjoying photography...

Bill

highsector · Mar 8, 2004

c3pio said:
Let's to the sizes and weight of the digicams in question. If you hold
a heavier Optio 555 and lighter and thinner T1. What's the
physiological
process that occurs...

wow. physiological. are we talking about camera quality or wat?

we better talk about life. what are our purpose on earth? to be born to discuss about the t1? wow.. deep.

like how many muscle parts in the hands,

c3pio said:
shoulders are in tension when holding each of them and which is
more stable and why and the percentage difference between them.

trying to be funny is it? you have successfully make me laugh.

One

c3pio said:
must calculate the amount and know the optimum geometric and
gravitional center in question.

laugh till stomach ache.

c3pio · Mar 8, 2004

I'm serious. After reading all the complains. It seems the primary

problem at low light is in the shaking of the hands when holding the camera. And I'd like to know how large does it have the tendency to shake compared to other camera at a given hand holding and steadying
reference. Say. You have the Pentax Optio 555 now. Does your
hands shake less when holding it? What settings do you use mainly,
program mode like the T1 or shutter priority??

All digicams I own are Sony, the old 2 mp F55, T1, F717, and other
digicams I tried are Sony such as V1, P10, P72. This is because Sony
has dominated the market in my country. So I'm curious as to how
the Optio 555 performs against the T1. Pls. let me know about the
settings you use (where auto or shutter priority which may explain
why it shakes less). I'm deciding whether to get another T1 as a
present to my 717. Yeah. When you own a big digicam like 717
or 300D. You have a tendency to get a smaller one... it's because
of a subconscious programming about mother image which we are
all born with. The 717 or 300 is like a mother, it needs a son or
daughter to be perfect and the T1 is its offspring.

matt

highsector said:
highsector said:

Let's to the sizes and weight of the digicams in question. If you hold
a heavier Optio 555 and lighter and thinner T1. What's the
physiological
process that occurs...

Click to expand...

wow. physiological. are we talking about camera quality or wat?
we better talk about life. what are our purpose on earth? to be
born to discuss about the t1? wow.. deep.

like how many muscle parts in the hands,

highsector said:

shoulders are in tension when holding each of them and which is
more stable and why and the percentage difference between them.

Click to expand...

trying to be funny is it? you have successfully make me laugh.

One

highsector said:

must calculate the amount and know the optimum geometric and
gravitional center in question.

Click to expand...

laugh till stomach ache.

Chronis · Mar 8, 2004

silversport said:
Please feel free to pick and choose what parts of my response you
would like to twist and distort and re-form for your own purposes.

Hmmm, another conspiracy theory.... And what purposes do you think those might be..... Get real.

SONY produce mediocre cameras, at best they are good just that. But good is not good enough. The fact that you enjoy photografy is besides the point.

They look nice (very nice) but against the competition they don't deliver (latest proof the 828). And that is not my statement. Read the reviews.....thoroughly.

Over and out

Chronis

silversport · Mar 8, 2004

Chronis said:
Chronis said:

Please feel free to pick and choose what parts of my response you
would like to twist and distort and re-form for your own purposes.

Click to expand...

Hmmm, another conspiracy theory.... And what purposes do you think
those might be..... Get real.

SONY produce mediocre cameras, at best they are good just that. But
good is not good enough. The fact that you enjoy photografy is
besides the point.

They look nice (very nice) but against the competition they don't
deliver (latest proof the 828). And that is not my statement. Read
the reviews.....thoroughly.

Over and out

Chronis

stuartd · Mar 8, 2004

Before I start, can I ask if the store you bought the T1 from has a favourable returns policy ?

I'm sorry to see that you're struggling to get photo's you find acceptable from the T1.

I've been in a situation like this before myself. I bought a Konica 510Z (aka Minolta G500 in the US) after I read a couple of favourable reviews and also read how some owner's though it was a great camera. I made a huge mistake as the camera was just not very capable in low light, and even in daylight I was unimpressed. Thankfully the store I bought it from (Jessops in the UK) allowed me to get a full refund and I bought my Sony F717, which I like this far (although I'd still like a DSLR).

I looked at the photo's of the T1 prior to release and was distinctly unimpressed by the very small and limiting lens.

What I'm saying here is don't go by the good press that things get and don't take as gospel the very (and sometimes OTT) favourable comments made by owners that rave about how good their one is. Try it for yourself in a camera store before you buy, it's a lot of money so you deserve the opportunity to see if you'll like it.

Onto the photo's

1. The biker. This is very overexposed which is likely due to spot being used, and the dark clothed biker taking centre frame. To be honest I find the focus on the biker a little on the soft side as well.

2. The unfortunate model. Looks like the flash fired far too strongly. I'd recomment dropping the etrength of the flash for photo's as close as that. I always set flash to '-' with my 717 to ensure I avoid a similar effect.

3. What's that being held there? The noise is typical of what I'd expect from a camera of that size. Metering seems OK in this one, as is focus.

4. Armadillo. Again, noise is as I expected from that size of camera. The tiny camera really doesn't help with indoor shots

5. Car Park. Poor/dull lighting, as indoors with small camera's (small lens, small ccd) leads to noisy photo's.

For those types of photo (apart from the biker in 1) a super compact camera's just not the best choice, the lens and ccd combination are just too limiting and the results, in my opinion, not good enough.

I'll say one positive thing though. There's no PF issues here

biderek said:
--
Hello again, well I am still trying NOT to take my Sony T1 back and
throw it at the shop manager I like is so much If only it was a
Camera in the sense that it took photographs!

I read all these forums and chaps say they get brill photo's well
perhaps they are on drugs or have very bad eye sight . Or perhaps
that's me! Joking apart I have had the worse photo's ever from this
smart looking and surperb made portable camera.

If I compare it to my last camera Minolta F300 the shot sthat I got
from the Minolta were clear crisp and very nice in color, th eshots
I have had in the 3 weeks of owing the T1 are terrible lot of RED
in them and when I come to print A4 photos MAX res on Epson Photo
Gloss or HP they come out as if it is on a effect setting , then
some come out just bad not sharp and NEVER GOOD.

Why ? I have tried all the stuff off this site re settings made NO
difference just as bad if not worse, so I ask who is kidding who?
and why ? is it not Sony who is getting the best laugh at £460 or
$695 equivelent they must be.

Anyone who can help me all I need is simple nice sharp and color
right prints.......... I would like them with this camera.

I fret that I will not get them though!
The red eye and the poor quality dark room photo's dont worry me
but the terrible ill focused and RED all over photos from a clear
English garden daytime shots do!!!!!
thank you kindly

BIG D

Big Derek

--
See my gallery at http://www.pbase.com/stuartd

c3pio · Mar 8, 2004

Sony products appear not to be perfect because they are
the pioneers. They were the maker of the first 8mp sensor,
the first tiny T1, the first 8mp 828, etc. Even the popular
1/1.8" sensor used in all brands were created by Sony. As
pioneers, mistakes can be made. And other manufacturers
can learn from that mistakes and produce a more improved
model.

matt

Chronis said:
Chronis said:

Please feel free to pick and choose what parts of my response you
would like to twist and distort and re-form for your own purposes.

Click to expand...

Hmmm, another conspiracy theory.... And what purposes do you think
those might be..... Get real.

SONY produce mediocre cameras, at best they are good just that. But
good is not good enough. The fact that you enjoy photografy is
besides the point.

They look nice (very nice) but against the competition they don't
deliver (latest proof the 828). And that is not my statement. Read
the reviews.....thoroughly.

Over and out

Chronis

c3pio · Mar 8, 2004

I don't know how much sensor size contributes to the noise. I still
haven't seen comparison shots between the T1 1/2.5" based sensor
versus the 1/1.8" versus the 2/3" sensor. I'm thinking whether
the sensor difference would be noticeable between say a dSLR with
5 times sensor area than between the above which only differs by a
few mm. If anyone has a T1, P10, 717 and can share the noise of
each shot using the same target object, many would appreciate it.
It's important to know whether they differ large and noticeable and
the difference like day and night or just insignificant (like after Neat
Image application maybe the resolution loss is that not big). We
need hard data before continuing all the debates. Can't someone
lend his T1 to Phil at dpreview for detailed technical analysis (which
he is good at).

matt

stuartd said:
I'm sorry to see that you're struggling to get photo's you find
acceptable from the T1.

I've been in a situation like this before myself. I bought a Konica
510Z (aka Minolta G500 in the US) after I read a couple of
favourable reviews and also read how some owner's though it was a
great camera. I made a huge mistake as the camera was just not very
capable in low light, and even in daylight I was unimpressed.
Thankfully the store I bought it from (Jessops in the UK) allowed
me to get a full refund and I bought my Sony F717, which I like
this far (although I'd still like a DSLR).
I looked at the photo's of the T1 prior to release and was
distinctly unimpressed by the very small and limiting lens.

What I'm saying here is don't go by the good press that things get
and don't take as gospel the very (and sometimes OTT) favourable
comments made by owners that rave about how good their one is. Try
it for yourself in a camera store before you buy, it's a lot of
money so you deserve the opportunity to see if you'll like it.

Onto the photo's

1. The biker. This is very overexposed which is likely due to spot
being used, and the dark clothed biker taking centre frame. To be
honest I find the focus on the biker a little on the soft side as
well.

2. The unfortunate model. Looks like the flash fired far too
strongly. I'd recomment dropping the etrength of the flash for
photo's as close as that. I always set flash to '-' with my 717 to
ensure I avoid a similar effect.

3. What's that being held there? The noise is typical of what I'd
expect from a camera of that size. Metering seems OK in this one,
as is focus.

4. Armadillo. Again, noise is as I expected from that size of
camera. The tiny camera really doesn't help with indoor shots

5. Car Park. Poor/dull lighting, as indoors with small camera's
(small lens, small ccd) leads to noisy photo's.

For those types of photo (apart from the biker in 1) a super
compact camera's just not the best choice, the lens and ccd
combination are just too limiting and the results, in my opinion,
not good enough.

I'll say one positive thing though. There's no PF issues here

biderek said:

--
Hello again, well I am still trying NOT to take my Sony T1 back and
throw it at the shop manager I like is so much If only it was a
Camera in the sense that it took photographs!

I read all these forums and chaps say they get brill photo's well
perhaps they are on drugs or have very bad eye sight . Or perhaps
that's me! Joking apart I have had the worse photo's ever from this
smart looking and surperb made portable camera.

If I compare it to my last camera Minolta F300 the shot sthat I got
from the Minolta were clear crisp and very nice in color, th eshots
I have had in the 3 weeks of owing the T1 are terrible lot of RED
in them and when I come to print A4 photos MAX res on Epson Photo
Gloss or HP they come out as if it is on a effect setting , then
some come out just bad not sharp and NEVER GOOD.

Why ? I have tried all the stuff off this site re settings made NO
difference just as bad if not worse, so I ask who is kidding who?
and why ? is it not Sony who is getting the best laugh at £460 or
$695 equivelent they must be.

Anyone who can help me all I need is simple nice sharp and color
right prints.......... I would like them with this camera.

I fret that I will not get them though!
The red eye and the poor quality dark room photo's dont worry me
but the terrible ill focused and RED all over photos from a clear
English garden daytime shots do!!!!!
thank you kindly

BIG D

Big Derek

Click to expand...

--
See my gallery at http://www.pbase.com/stuartd

silversport · Mar 8, 2004

mestleman said:
matt

Chronis said:

c3pio said:

Please feel free to pick and choose what parts of my response you
would like to twist and distort and re-form for your own purposes.

Click to expand...

Hmmm, another conspiracy theory.... And what purposes do you think
those might be..... Get real.

SONY produce mediocre cameras, at best they are good just that. But
good is not good enough. The fact that you enjoy photografy is
besides the point.

They look nice (very nice) but against the competition they don't
deliver (latest proof the 828). And that is not my statement. Read
the reviews.....thoroughly.

Over and out

Chronis

Click to expand...

nonamebrand · Mar 8, 2004

Well... opinion this opinion that. Let's compare photos.

With all the T1 Satisfied users photo VS. the other compact Camera anti T1 users Photo

highsector · Mar 8, 2004

. So I'm curious as to how

c3pio said:
the Optio 555 performs against the T1. Pls. let me know about the
settings you use (where auto or shutter priority which may explain
why it shakes less). I'm deciding whether to get another T1 as a
present to my 717. Yeah. When you own a big digicam like 717
or 300D. You have a tendency to get a smaller one... it's because
of a subconscious programming about mother image which we are
all born with. The 717 or 300 is like a mother, it needs a son or
daughter to be perfect and the T1 is its offspring.

actually im not comparing the T1 against the 555, because T1 wont be able to get anywhere near 555 quality. and they both different camera. one is design, the other is a small semi pro. digital camera.

if you really want design, choose a black T1, it looks much better, just like the nokia 8910i, titanium black body, eventhough the function is not much better and limited than the rest of nokia and samsung phone. but again the design seem to mesmerize people mind into buying such a phone.

sony has done well to reach this stage.

just a thought for you mestleman, if t1 is not by sony, but its by another company, like china company called the ching chang chong. will you buy it? have the same function and everything but without marketing and advertisement like what sony did successfully. little will buy it, heck the price wont be that much.

human brain are very interesting indeed, they will always try to console themselves. heck i shouldnt even argue pigs can fly in the first place, arguing about the T1 give loophole to T1 is actually a good camera.

c3pio said:
of a subconscious programming about mother image which we are
all born with. The 717 or 300 is like a mother, it needs a son or
daughter to be perfect and the T1 is its offspring.

i wouldnt say T1 is the off spring, T1 is the premature baby, not able to cope well like the other healthy baby.

i have 555, ixus 400, fuji 420, canon g2...

i can say that v1 is comparable to 555. i have no complain about v1. but the t1, tsk tsk tsk. its only design. i have it about a month, and the best shots from it are just a par with my fuji. i rather buy fuji. small size and looks quite solid too.

not as expensive as sony. and the color from fuji cameras are amazing, sometimes my canon 400 lose out to fuji in color.

T1 is like those car in movie production. with ferrari body but using honda machine waiting to be blown away.

i rest my case.

c3pio said:
matt

highsector said:

c3pio said:

Let's to the sizes and weight of the digicams in question. If you hold
a heavier Optio 555 and lighter and thinner T1. What's the
physiological
process that occurs...

Click to expand...

wow. physiological. are we talking about camera quality or wat?
we better talk about life. what are our purpose on earth? to be
born to discuss about the t1? wow.. deep.

like how many muscle parts in the hands,

c3pio said:

shoulders are in tension when holding each of them and which is
more stable and why and the percentage difference between them.

Click to expand...

trying to be funny is it? you have successfully make me laugh.

One

c3pio said:

must calculate the amount and know the optimum geometric and
gravitional center in question.

Click to expand...

laugh till stomach ache.

Click to expand...

c3pio · Mar 8, 2004

The other day I had this party and I chanced upon these wonderful
chicks and got to know them. Too bad I had no camera with me.
It was one of those times when I wished i had a small camera with
enough resolution to view every speck and hair of these women's
lovely faces. I guess this is the reason Eric Ryder likes his T1 so
much.. because he can carry it anywhere, at all times.

About if the T1 is made by a china company and people would
buy them. Well. Actually I am interested in reverse engineering
the T1 and letting a china company produce it at say $150-$200.
It's a great pocketable item that you won't hesitate to carry all day
long. Eric stuff that the W1 too thick may have some merit in that
you can't carry it at all times without getting uncomfortable.

Now about how bad the T1 is. I guess it's the flash that is the
culprit at night. You can see much noise in shots with flash because
the flash is not enough to brighten the scene and the shutter
is fast at 1/40 sec with flash. I wonder if the sensor size
contributes so much to the problem as the flash.

Also I found out something. When you get bad shots at low
light using the T1 without flash. It is because the scene may need
more than 1 sec exposure. My 717 at F2.8 1 sec produce a brighter
image than the T1 at F3.5 1 sec both set at certain ISO. This means
the image at some low light shots are underexposed due to it
not able to go longer than 1 second. So when you compare other
cams with F2.8 versus the T1 F3.5. You get bad result with the
T1 because it can't go longer than the maximum 1 second. So
we can say the T1 can take only limited lowest light shot.

If ever I'd get the T1, it would be for daytime and flash shots.
I know flashless low light shots would be almost useless in most

situations in parties. But with flash shots. It's better than having no pictures at all.. especialy if you have stunning ladies with you at night.

If you have time. Pls. post all shots from T1 versus the other cameras
you have. Let's see them in actual image comparisons.

matt

highsector said:
highsector said:

the Optio 555 performs against the T1. Pls. let me know about the
settings you use (where auto or shutter priority which may explain
why it shakes less). I'm deciding whether to get another T1 as a
present to my 717. Yeah. When you own a big digicam like 717
or 300D. You have a tendency to get a smaller one... it's because
of a subconscious programming about mother image which we are
all born with. The 717 or 300 is like a mother, it needs a son or
daughter to be perfect and the T1 is its offspring.

Click to expand...

actually im not comparing the T1 against the 555, because T1 wont
be able to get anywhere near 555 quality. and they both different
camera. one is design, the other is a small semi pro. digital
camera.

if you really want design, choose a black T1, it looks much
better, just like the nokia 8910i, titanium black body, eventhough
the function is not much better and limited than the rest of nokia
and samsung phone. but again the design seem to mesmerize people
mind into buying such a phone.

sony has done well to reach this stage.

just a thought for you mestleman, if t1 is not by sony, but its by
another company, like china company called the ching chang chong.
will you buy it? have the same function and everything but without
marketing and advertisement like what sony did successfully. little
will buy it, heck the price wont be that much.

human brain are very interesting indeed, they will always try to
console themselves. heck i shouldnt even argue pigs can fly in the
first place, arguing about the T1 give loophole to T1 is actually a
good camera.

highsector said:

of a subconscious programming about mother image which we are
all born with. The 717 or 300 is like a mother, it needs a son or
daughter to be perfect and the T1 is its offspring.

Click to expand...

i wouldnt say T1 is the off spring, T1 is the premature baby, not
able to cope well like the other healthy baby.

i have 555, ixus 400, fuji 420, canon g2...
i can say that v1 is comparable to 555. i have no complain about
v1. but the t1, tsk tsk tsk. its only design. i have it about a
month, and the best shots from it are just a par with my fuji. i
rather buy fuji. small size and looks quite solid too.
not as expensive as sony. and the color from fuji cameras are
amazing, sometimes my canon 400 lose out to fuji in color.

T1 is like those car in movie production. with ferrari body but
using honda machine waiting to be blown away.

i rest my case.

highsector said:

matt

highsector said:

highsector said:

Let's to the sizes and weight of the digicams in question. If you hold
a heavier Optio 555 and lighter and thinner T1. What's the
physiological
process that occurs...

Click to expand...

wow. physiological. are we talking about camera quality or wat?
we better talk about life. what are our purpose on earth? to be
born to discuss about the t1? wow.. deep.

like how many muscle parts in the hands,

highsector said:

shoulders are in tension when holding each of them and which is
more stable and why and the percentage difference between them.

Click to expand...

trying to be funny is it? you have successfully make me laugh.

One

highsector said:

must calculate the amount and know the optimum geometric and
gravitional center in question.

Click to expand...

laugh till stomach ache.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

RichST · Mar 8, 2004

I'd say theres no point in comparing different photos unless it's the same scene, taken by the same person with each camera. This is what I hope to accomplish once I have time. However, my comparison will only be between the S400 and the T1...I don't have access to other cameras.

nonamebrand said:
Well... opinion this opinion that. Let's compare photos.

With all the T1 Satisfied users photo VS. the other compact Camera
anti T1 users Photo

RichST · Mar 8, 2004

Oh and one more thing, maybe it should be the "anti other compact Camera users VS the satisfied other compact Camera users."

J/K but why don't we keep it called "T1 satisfied users VS the T1 dissatisfied users" instead.

RichST said:
nonamebrand said:

Well... opinion this opinion that. Let's compare photos.

With all the T1 Satisfied users photo VS. the other compact Camera
anti T1 users Photo

Click to expand...

c3pio · Mar 8, 2004

Of course it should be the same scene taken by same person and
within minutes of each other. If one will use flash, the flash must
be equal in intensity too. If not, you can obviously expect the result
to be good in the one with bigger flash. To be fair, there should be
no flash (since no other cam has the same flash as the T1). Another
important thing is that the other digicam must have aperture set to
F3.5. and similar ISO at all range with white balance set to flourescent
and EV 0 or normal. Here we can see how much the noise in the T1
compare to this other cam. If you'd use F2.8 in other cam, it can
produce brighter noisefree image and you can't compare it this way.
If I can get hold of a T1, I'd compare it to my 717 at the same
F3.5 and low light scene. I still can't predict how they would perform...
although I can say at daytime there is not much different (right?).
If the T1 is noisier by about 10% at nighttime. It's not significant and
image quality would be at par between its sensor and a slightly larger
one.

matt

RichST said:
nonamebrand said:

Well... opinion this opinion that. Let's compare photos.

With all the T1 Satisfied users photo VS. the other compact Camera
anti T1 users Photo

Click to expand...

Eric Ryder · Mar 8, 2004

Good catch on the spot meter, Gregory. I'm wondering on your comment on not using AutoLevels before printing... I never knew that. Is that true, or a typo? I always use Auto Levels. 'Course, I don't print out that many pictures, really.

gho said:
You don't have to shout!

I'll look into the pics. They seem a bit overexposed. I notieced
the first one (the bike) that you used spot metering. The center
of the frame is a black jacket. This will throw off the spot
meter, as it tries to expose the black as grey (that's the purpose
of the spot meter). I would first sugguest that you try and get a
good exposure. You can try the same -0.7 exposure using
multi-metering and see if your exposure looks better. Also I
noticed that your saturation was set to low as sugguested on this
forum. I sugguest you set saturation to normal and contrast to
normal and take some pics and see if you like the color better.
The desaturation could lead to off colors. Also, make sure you are
not using autolevels on your imaging software before printing.

Let me know what happens and I will try to help you out.

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

RichST · Mar 8, 2004

For my comparison that is much too complicated and, for me anyway, unnecessary. I see what you're saying about the flash...but for practicality the flash is part of the whole package. That's what I am evaluating is cam vs cam given specific circumstances. Sure I'll bump up the flash on the T1, and make sure both cams are set to equivalent resolutions, etc. But the slow lense is an unavoidable part of the T1 and will not be ignored...there is no reason to make the opposing camera "weaker."

I know you'd like the most technical of comparisons Matt. However, I'm shooting for a more practical comparison. Something the everyday user can compare.

Rich

mestleman said:
matt

RichST said:

nonamebrand said:

Well... opinion this opinion that. Let's compare photos.

With all the T1 Satisfied users photo VS. the other compact Camera
anti T1 users Photo

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

c3pio · Mar 9, 2004

Had the T1 been designed with a bigger flash. It could have
compensate for all the serious shortcomings of it, namely:
1. No tripod mount 2. Small sensor 3. Small F3.5 aperture

The smaller flash just aggravates it to the worse. I think Sony
decides to use smaller flash to save battery and space. About
space, they can make only a small area of the body bigger (this
is needed because bigger capacitor is the requirement for bigger
flash). This may intrude on the LCD and control buttons too. And
make the design a little bit uglier. I wish they make a T1-n or night
version.

So why would night outers still prefer the normal T1. For me, it's
better than having none. If you are the type who brings bags and stuff
all the time (especially ladies). No problem carrying the SD100.
But for some of us who just walk with jeans and shirt. The T1 may
be the only solution even though it has such a bad shortcomings in
being the one with puniest flash. But it's better than no pictures at
all. My old F55 which I just sold today is about 1.3" and I know
what Eric means when he says the W1 may not be so pocket friendly
(but I'm not sure about the 1.1" SD100). The other thin super
compacts such as the contax is only 3 mp (the sony U20 is 2mp)
and you need the 5 mp to see those details you love. If anyone
can prove the 2 mp sony U20 gives the same details as the 5mp
T1 at night flash shots. I'd appreciate it. Also if anyone
can show me a 1" thick digicam as small as the T1 with 5mp and
bigger flash. I'd get it. Anyone? If I can't find another
one within the week and I miss another shots of chicks at spontaneous
meetings in night outings. Then I'd get the $350 T1, again. I was
glad I sold it before at $500 because it gave me the opportionity
to find a used 717 at $500 which gave me a peek of the promises
of manual controls and enhancing photography to the maximum.
Now need a pocketable one for companion to my 717.

matt

RichST said:
I know you'd like the most technical of comparisons Matt. However,
I'm shooting for a more practical comparison. Something the
everyday user can compare.

Rich

mestleman said:

matt

RichST said:

nonamebrand said:

Well... opinion this opinion that. Let's compare photos.

With all the T1 Satisfied users photo VS. the other compact Camera
anti T1 users Photo

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Dan Pidcock · Mar 9, 2004

Chronis said:
Chronis said:

Chronis said:

The V1, Sony's flagship at the 5MP compact range. Nothing special,
not really recommended by many reviewers

Click to expand...

except here...did you READ Dave's Review??? (highly recommended!)

Click to expand...

I have indeed. Look carefully at the end of the "Compared to"
sections. Sony fails to win in any substantial aspect (substantial
to the quality picture taker) against the Canon and Nikon.

The Nikon 5400 is 40% more expensive. the G5 is a touch more expensive but the mem cards will be cheaper so these two are directly comparable. (5400=£475, G5=£375, V1=£345)

From the review:
"features wise its (sic) between the Canon G5 and Nikon 5400."
"Best resolution / detail - Canon G5 followed by Sony DSC-V1"
"Best lens sharpness - Canon G5 followed by Sony DSC-V1"
Best "chromatic aberrations - Nikon Coolpix 5400"
Best "noise - Nikon Coolpix 5400 followed by Sony DSC-V1"
V1 has poor auto white balance
V1 colours are not good

Resolution: "The Sony's managed to continue the ability to resolve detail further than Canon or Nikon"

Looking at all that the V1 does not seem to be the worst, nor the best.
I don't really see anything worth spending an extra £100 on for the Nikon.

I'm quite tempted by the G5 especially with its faster lens although it is a lot larger and heavier, and lacks the night shot modes (for IR).

Still trying to decide (CanA80, FujiS5000, FujiF700, CanS50, SonV1, Pent550 or CanG5)...

Dan

Who is kidding who re Sony T1 ?

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