Reading mode: Light Dark

A1: does EVF limit usability for insect close-ups?

Go to last post
Z

Zdravko Kolev

Well-known member
Messages
165
Reaction score
0
Location
FI
A more specific question regarding the capabilities of the A1. The main use I have for a camera is insect close-up photography, esp. butterflies. In six years I have gotten quite good at it with my entry-level Dynax 500si Super, though credit should go to the unbelievable Sigma 105mm Macro lens (not surprisingly, the Dynax has often metering problems and, to compound these, I use the camera's own flash for fill-up contrary to all recommendations I've read. Yet I am as ever surprised how this usually, though not always, produces excellent results).

Anyway, one of the most important things in close-ups is to get the focus right. I focus exclusively by hand, as automatics are slow and unreliable and not likely to lock exactly on the part I want in focus. And this has to happen FAST. In this optical VF is, I hear, indispensable and in fact one reason why digital cameras other than DSLR are not particularly suitable for such type of shooting. However, OzRay has a nice gallery with close-ups of dragonflies, moths and other invertebrates (see in the thread "A1 review by DPReview - how true?").

So, OzRay and others who use A1 for this type of photography, what is your experience? Is the EVF on A1 up to the task?
 
The A1 evf is good, but not perfect (far from it) - I'd love to see what the A2 is like. But the AF does lock on to what you want as your focus point - I find it to be quite good in fact. I doubt the A2, or any other similar format, would be much better for fast moving subjects, regardless of evf.

Manual focus is still a bit of an oddity, because it is not direct like the zoom and so the control is not the same for fast focus changes (I'd love a manual focus the same as the zoom, but I'd also need the high-res evf).

Much has to do with the type of photography you are interested in, for very fast moving objects, I doubt any of the SLR-like cameras would cope with the subject movement. But then, close-up/macrophotography is often more a case of patience, pre-setup, pre-focus and pre-exposure, than anything else.

The in-built flash is quite hopeless for macro/close-up, and quite personally, for anything else. If flash is important, then get something additional.
Zdravko Kolev said:
A more specific question regarding the capabilities of the A1. The
main use I have for a camera is insect close-up photography, esp.
butterflies. In six years I have gotten quite good at it with my
entry-level Dynax 500si Super, though credit should go to the
unbelievable Sigma 105mm Macro lens (not surprisingly, the Dynax
has often metering problems and, to compound these, I use the
camera's own flash for fill-up contrary to all recommendations I've
read. Yet I am as ever surprised how this usually, though not
always, produces excellent results).

Anyway, one of the most important things in close-ups is to get the
focus right. I focus exclusively by hand, as automatics are slow
and unreliable and not likely to lock exactly on the part I want in
focus. And this has to happen FAST. In this optical VF is, I hear,
indispensable and in fact one reason why digital cameras other than
DSLR are not particularly suitable for such type of shooting.
However, OzRay has a nice gallery with close-ups of dragonflies,
moths and other invertebrates (see in the thread "A1 review by
DPReview - how true?").

So, OzRay and others who use A1 for this type of photography, what
is your experience? Is the EVF on A1 up to the task?
Click to expand...
--

There are no limitations, only challenges - me (unless someone else said it first).

http://www.wyndhambusiness.com/PhotoGallery/
 
Zdravko Kolev wrote:
[...]
Zdravko Kolev said:
So, OzRay and others who use A1 for this type of photography, what
is your experience? Is the EVF on A1 up to the task?
Click to expand...
I take a lot of insect macros with my 7i which might even have a worser EVF than the A1 (I am not sure). I general I focus manually using the x2 magnification to do this precisely. Although it is more laborious than on a real SLR, I find it very useful and useable.

Victor.

--
http://www.victorbos.com/ -Nature photography (dutch)
 
I have a few insect shots in my gallery:

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=1&pic=16

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=1&pic=15

When I need to focus on a certain part of the subject the "Flex Focus Point" is great. I think that's what I've used for the two pictures above.

Below is a picture where I used manual focus, but that subject isn't moving so fast ;)

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=4&pic=4

The conclusion must be that if you use the flex focus point you can get focus (almost) where you want it as long as you can keep the camera steady. If you "shake" the camera the flex focus point wont focus or it doesn't focus where you want it too. The manual focus is great if you have a lot of time, but it's not for a quick adjustment from infinity to "very close". I think the EVF is up to the task, but it could be better of cause.

Feel free to browse my entire gallery at http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1
Zdravko Kolev said:
A more specific question regarding the capabilities of the A1. The
main use I have for a camera is insect close-up photography, esp.
butterflies. In six years I have gotten quite good at it with my
entry-level Dynax 500si Super, though credit should go to the
unbelievable Sigma 105mm Macro lens (not surprisingly, the Dynax
has often metering problems and, to compound these, I use the
camera's own flash for fill-up contrary to all recommendations I've
read. Yet I am as ever surprised how this usually, though not
always, produces excellent results).

Anyway, one of the most important things in close-ups is to get the
focus right. I focus exclusively by hand, as automatics are slow
and unreliable and not likely to lock exactly on the part I want in
focus. And this has to happen FAST. In this optical VF is, I hear,
indispensable and in fact one reason why digital cameras other than
DSLR are not particularly suitable for such type of shooting.
However, OzRay has a nice gallery with close-ups of dragonflies,
moths and other invertebrates (see in the thread "A1 review by
DPReview - how true?").

So, OzRay and others who use A1 for this type of photography, what
is your experience? Is the EVF on A1 up to the task?
Click to expand...
--
Regards
Peter



Homepage with photos: http://petermogensen.dk
Please have a look, and write a comment :)
 
OzRay said:
The in-built flash is quite hopeless for macro/close-up, and quite
personally, for anything else. If flash is important, then get
something additional.
Click to expand...
While I agree that the built-in flash has its limitations, it can be ok for certain applications, even some macro, but I have not done much macro work. I used the built-in flash with a tissue over it to soften the shot and P-TTL mode for this macro I took for the Minolta Challenge #4:
http://www.pbase.com/image/26562510

I find that if I wrap a single layer of kleenex tissue around the front of the flash and gather the remainder together and tuck it under the EVF, it stays in place very well. The lighting seems ok to me, although there is of course some shadow.

 
to diffuse the flash might go a long way to help. I think you're right about the diffusing bit. Minolta actually sell a diffuser that attaches to the flash mount specifically for macro work with the flash. Without some diffusion, it's just too directional and harsh in my opinion. I've tried to get this critter for weeks and used the camera flash tonight (out of frustration), but because it hasn't been still here for one minute, it's virtually impossible to focus properly and the lighting is way too harsh.


John down under said:
OzRay said:
The in-built flash is quite hopeless for macro/close-up, and quite
personally, for anything else. If flash is important, then get
something additional.
Click to expand...
While I agree that the built-in flash has its limitations, it can
be ok for certain applications, even some macro, but I have not
done much macro work. I used the built-in flash with a tissue over
it to soften the shot and P-TTL mode for this macro I took for the
Minolta Challenge #4:
http://www.pbase.com/image/26562510
I find that if I wrap a single layer of kleenex tissue around the
front of the flash and gather the remainder together and tuck it
under the EVF, it stays in place very well. The lighting seems ok
to me, although there is of course some shadow.

Click to expand...
--

There are no limitations, only challenges - me (unless someone else said it first).

http://www.wyndhambusiness.com/PhotoGallery/
 
Peter

You are getting some incredibly sharp images, whereas lately mine seem to be a tad out of focus (sometimes seems to take longer to focus as well). So much so that I've contacted the place I bought the camera from and they have offered to replace it. To date the camera has been great, so I can't figure out why the sudden change. They should have new stocks in mid next week, so I'll find out then how different it is.

--

There are no limitations, only challenges - me (unless someone else said it first).

http://www.wyndhambusiness.com/PhotoGallery/
 
PWM said:
http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=1&pic=16

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=1&pic=15

When I need to focus on a certain part of the subject the "Flex
Focus Point" is great. I think that's what I've used for the two
pictures above.

Below is a picture where I used manual focus, but that subject
isn't moving so fast ;)

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=4&pic=4

The conclusion must be that if you use the flex focus point you can
get focus (almost) where you want it as long as you can keep the
camera steady. If you "shake" the camera the flex focus point wont
focus or it doesn't focus where you want it too. The manual focus
is great if you have a lot of time, but it's not for a quick
adjustment from infinity to "very close". I think the EVF is up to
the task, but it could be better of cause.

Feel free to browse my entire gallery at
http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1
Zdravko Kolev said:
A more specific question regarding the capabilities of the A1. The
main use I have for a camera is insect close-up photography, esp.
butterflies. In six years I have gotten quite good at it with my
entry-level Dynax 500si Super, though credit should go to the
unbelievable Sigma 105mm Macro lens (not surprisingly, the Dynax
has often metering problems and, to compound these, I use the
camera's own flash for fill-up contrary to all recommendations I've
read. Yet I am as ever surprised how this usually, though not
always, produces excellent results).

Anyway, one of the most important things in close-ups is to get the
focus right. I focus exclusively by hand, as automatics are slow
and unreliable and not likely to lock exactly on the part I want in
focus. And this has to happen FAST. In this optical VF is, I hear,
indispensable and in fact one reason why digital cameras other than
DSLR are not particularly suitable for such type of shooting.
However, OzRay has a nice gallery with close-ups of dragonflies,
moths and other invertebrates (see in the thread "A1 review by
DPReview - how true?").

So, OzRay and others who use A1 for this type of photography, what
is your experience? Is the EVF on A1 up to the task?
Click to expand...
--
Regards
Peter



Homepage with photos: http://petermogensen.dk
Please have a look, and write a comment :)
Click to expand...
After seeing Peter's shots I hesitate to show mine, but you can find a lot of them with the D&, 7i, A1 and A2, at http://www.pbase.com/bertramm

The A1/A2 manual states that you cannot use the built in flash for macro. This was true of the D7xx, but I find it does very well with the A1/A2.

However, if you add a close up lens then you have to use either a ring flash or some kind of diffuser.

My solution was to make a diffuser out of an old piece of kitchen cutting board, which works fine and is convienient to carry.

Autofocus with the flex focus point lets you use AF very effectively in macros, and it is quick.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23896013/medium

The A2 is very similar to the A1, but the faster autofocus, better EVF and the ability to crop a lot more I expect to find very useful for these shots. I have only had it a few days - time will tell.

--
http://www.pbase.com/bertramm
pbase & dpreview supporter
Dimage A2, Epsom 3200 scanner, HP 2500 printer
Photoshop CS, Qimage, ACDSee
 
I totally agree with John down under, at least my experience of using the fill-in flash of my very basic Dynax for close-ups has been overwhelmingly positive. The only drawback (except the camera's own metering deficiencies and lack of more manually adjustable options) is that sometimes, when the sun shines sideways on the subject, a very unnaturally looking double shadow results. This is however rarely so big as to be noticeable.

I don't find the flash light too harsh, and having a shadow below the subject is only natural: sunlight produces very much the same :) I did play around with homemade diffusors for a while but have since used the flash as it is. Btw, I'd be glad to post some pics (scanned from slides) to illustrate my point, but can't figure out how to attach files to my messages (??).

My 105 mm Macro lens focuses down to ca. 35 cm from the subject, so there is no danger of the camera's flash throwing a shadow over the subject (no hood attached to the lens, though: otherwise this would be a problem). I figure that since A1's tele zoom is 200mm (35mm equiv.) that should be even less of a problem and the flash's output would be even more even and suitable. Hopefully I am not mistaken.

Zdravko
John down under said:
OzRay said:
The in-built flash is quite hopeless for macro/close-up, and quite
personally, for anything else. If flash is important, then get
something additional.
Click to expand...
While I agree that the built-in flash has its limitations, it can
be ok for certain applications, even some macro, but I have not
done much macro work. I used the built-in flash with a tissue over
it to soften the shot and P-TTL mode for this macro I took for the
Minolta Challenge #4:
http://www.pbase.com/image/26562510
I find that if I wrap a single layer of kleenex tissue around the
front of the flash and gather the remainder together and tuck it
under the EVF, it stays in place very well. The lighting seems ok
to me, although there is of course some shadow.

Click to expand...
 
engbert said:
After seeing Peter's shots I hesitate to show mine, but you can
find a lot of them with the D&, 7i, A1 and A2, at
http://www.pbase.com/bertramm

The A1/A2 manual states that you cannot use the built in flash for
macro. This was true of the D7xx, but I find it does very well
with the A1/A2.

However, if you add a close up lens then you have to use either a
ring flash or some kind of diffuser.

My solution was to make a diffuser out of an old piece of kitchen
cutting board, which works fine and is convienient to carry.
Click to expand...
It is very interesting. Can you explain in more detail how the diffuser work??
Member said:
Autofocus with the flex focus point lets you use AF very
effectively in macros, and it is quick.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23896013/medium

The A2 is very similar to the A1, but the faster autofocus, better
EVF and the ability to crop a lot more I expect to find very useful
for these shots. I have only had it a few days - time will tell.
Click to expand...
Does the A2 EVF make a significant difference??
Member said:
--
http://www.pbase.com/bertramm
pbase & dpreview supporter
Dimage A2, Epsom 3200 scanner, HP 2500 printer
Photoshop CS, Qimage, ACDSee
Click to expand...
 
OzRay said:
to diffuse the flash might go a long way to help. I think you're
right about the diffusing bit. Minolta actually sell a diffuser
that attaches to the flash mount specifically for macro work with
the flash. Without some diffusion, it's just too directional and
harsh in my opinion. I've tried to get this critter for weeks and
used the camera flash tonight (out of frustration), but because it
hasn't been still here for one minute, it's virtually impossible to
focus properly and the lighting is way too harsh.
Click to expand...
G'day Ray,

I hadn't thought to use bacon fat. Sounds messy. LOL

I'm sure you have thought about experimenting with slight flash diffusion and some negative flash compensation, especially as you like MRW so you can fairly easily recover the exposure you want in DIVU.

Im equally sure you would be prefocusing if you could. It's tough trying to track spiders and insects at close range when they want to scurry away, isn't it? Dogs are bad enough at normal range.

 
omfr said:
engbert said:
After seeing Peter's shots I hesitate to show mine, but you can
find a lot of them with the D&, 7i, A1 and A2, at
http://www.pbase.com/bertramm

The A1/A2 manual states that you cannot use the built in flash for
macro. This was true of the D7xx, but I find it does very well
with the A1/A2.

However, if you add a close up lens then you have to use either a
ring flash or some kind of diffuser.

My solution was to make a diffuser out of an old piece of kitchen
cutting board, which works fine and is convienient to carry.
Click to expand...
It is very interesting. Can you explain in more detail how the
diffuser work??
Click to expand...
You screw the Close up lens on to the camera lens - (I do not removed the UV filter first), then simply slide the diffuser over it, with the larger part up. The diffuser is thick enough that it does not require any supporting brackets.

Pop up the built in flash.

Although the diffuser is quite thick, at that distance the built in flash hits it with enough light to provide nice diffuse illumination of the subject.

You can make the light more directional by masking one half of the diffuser with black paper.

In the next day or so I should have another camera to take some pictures of the A2 with this in place.

You can get white slightly translucent plastic cutting boards form dollar stores for a dollar or two. Then you need a 2 inch hole saw, preferably in a drill press.
omfr said:
omfr said:
Autofocus with the flex focus point lets you use AF very
effectively in macros, and it is quick.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23896013/medium

The A2 is very similar to the A1, but the faster autofocus, better
EVF and the ability to crop a lot more I expect to find very useful
for these shots. I have only had it a few days - time will tell.
Click to expand...
Does the A2 EVF make a significant difference??
Click to expand...
I think so. Also I am convinced that image quality is significantly better. You can find lots of contraryy opionons on this forum. Not all are from people who have an A2.

--
http://www.pbase.com/bertramm
pbase & dpreview supporter
Dimage A2, Epsom 3200 scanner, HP 2500 printer
Photoshop CS, Qimage, ACDSee
 
PWM said:
I have a few insect shots in my gallery:

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=1&pic=16

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=1&pic=15
Click to expand...
Very good pictures!!!
Did you use Close-up lens to take these pictures??

When I need to focus on a certain part of the subject the "Flex
PWM said:
Focus Point" is great. I think that's what I've used for the two
pictures above.

Below is a picture where I used manual focus, but that subject
isn't moving so fast ;)

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=4&pic=4
Click to expand...
 
Thanks to John down under for the detailed instructions on how to post pics! Here goes...



Lycaena tityrus male, wingspan 2,5 cm.



Issoria lathonia, forewing base to tip = ca. 2,4 cm.



Lycaena thersamon male, wingspan 2,7 cm.



Polyommatus escheri male, wingspan 3,5 cm.

All taken with Minolta Dynax 500si Super with Sigma 105 mm Macro EX lens (only Manual focus has been used!), camera's own fill-in flash without diffusor, Aperture Priority mode with f/16-19, shutter speed 1/90 s (automatic setting when flash is in use, cannot be changed on this model), Kodak slide film (can't remember exactly what kind) ISO 100. Scanned at 3700 dpi, post-processed with PaintShop Pro 7.04 (crop, unsharp mask, brightness adjustment and very slight Automatic saturation enhancement).

I think that the camera's own flash works best for close-ups when the subject is "detached" from the substrate, i.e. when sitting on a grass blade (so no double shadows can form), as seen in some of the above images. Otherwise the shadows can sometimes (but rarely in my experience) be quite disturbing, as here:



Polyommatus coridon male, wingspan 3,7 cm. All settings as above.

(for those interested, all species have been photographed in Bulgaria in June-July 2003)

Anyway, based on my experience I find the camera's own flash totally adequate (though could be I just got lucky: haven't used any other camera so far) and hope that it will be even more so on the A1, what with the possibility to set shutter speed and all. Now I am drooling, so I better shut up and start to think where I can scrape up the money for an A1 :)))

Zdravko
 
I have the flex focus enabled all the time, but usually centred. I wonder if this is potentially causing some of my focus problems. I'll have to try without and see how it goes. Mind you, it shouldn't be a problem because some of my latest shots have been taken with a tripod.
PWM said:
http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=1&pic=16

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=1&pic=15

When I need to focus on a certain part of the subject the "Flex
Focus Point" is great. I think that's what I've used for the two
pictures above.

Below is a picture where I used manual focus, but that subject
isn't moving so fast ;)

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=4&pic=4

The conclusion must be that if you use the flex focus point you can
get focus (almost) where you want it as long as you can keep the
camera steady. If you "shake" the camera the flex focus point wont
focus or it doesn't focus where you want it too. The manual focus
is great if you have a lot of time, but it's not for a quick
adjustment from infinity to "very close". I think the EVF is up to
the task, but it could be better of cause.

Feel free to browse my entire gallery at
http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1
Zdravko Kolev said:
A more specific question regarding the capabilities of the A1. The
main use I have for a camera is insect close-up photography, esp.
butterflies. In six years I have gotten quite good at it with my
entry-level Dynax 500si Super, though credit should go to the
unbelievable Sigma 105mm Macro lens (not surprisingly, the Dynax
has often metering problems and, to compound these, I use the
camera's own flash for fill-up contrary to all recommendations I've
read. Yet I am as ever surprised how this usually, though not
always, produces excellent results).

Anyway, one of the most important things in close-ups is to get the
focus right. I focus exclusively by hand, as automatics are slow
and unreliable and not likely to lock exactly on the part I want in
focus. And this has to happen FAST. In this optical VF is, I hear,
indispensable and in fact one reason why digital cameras other than
DSLR are not particularly suitable for such type of shooting.
However, OzRay has a nice gallery with close-ups of dragonflies,
moths and other invertebrates (see in the thread "A1 review by
DPReview - how true?").

So, OzRay and others who use A1 for this type of photography, what
is your experience? Is the EVF on A1 up to the task?
Click to expand...
--
Regards
Peter



Homepage with photos: http://petermogensen.dk
Please have a look, and write a comment :)
Click to expand...
--

There are no limitations, only challenges - me (unless someone else said it first).

http://www.wyndhambusiness.com/PhotoGallery/
 
engbert said:
Member said:
Member said:
My solution was to make a diffuser out of an old piece of kitchen
cutting board, which works fine and is convienient to carry.
Click to expand...
It is very interesting. Can you explain in more detail how the
diffuser work??
Click to expand...
You screw the Close up lens on to the camera lens - (I do not
removed the UV filter first), then simply slide the diffuser over
it, with the larger part up. The diffuser is thick enough that it
does not require any supporting brackets.
Click to expand...
Somewhat like this diffuser that same with my A-Macro?



--
Tricia
 
No, I didn't use any close-up lens (I haven't even got one ;) ) since we're testing the A1 macro capabilities here :)

But thanks for your compliment :)
omfr said:
PWM said:
I have a few insect shots in my gallery:

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=1&pic=16

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=1&pic=15
Click to expand...
Very good pictures!!!
Did you use Close-up lens to take these pictures??

When I need to focus on a certain part of the subject the "Flex
omfr said:
Focus Point" is great. I think that's what I've used for the two
pictures above.

Below is a picture where I used manual focus, but that subject
isn't moving so fast ;)

http://petermogensen.dk/om_pwm/interesser/foto/index.php?lng=eng&style=style1&cat=4&pic=4
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Regards
Peter



Homepage with photos: http://petermogensen.dk
Please have a look, and write a comment :)
 
Tricia said:
engbert said:
Tricia said:
Tricia said:
My solution was to make a diffuser out of an old piece of kitchen
cutting board, which works fine and is convienient to carry.
Click to expand...
It is very interesting. Can you explain in more detail how the
diffuser work??
Click to expand...
You screw the Close up lens on to the camera lens - (I do not
removed the UV filter first), then simply slide the diffuser over
it, with the larger part up. The diffuser is thick enough that it
does not require any supporting brackets.
Click to expand...
Somewhat like this diffuser that same with my A-Macro?



--
Tricia
Click to expand...
Here it is in place



More pix on my site uder "Gadgets."

--
http://www.pbase.com/bertramm
pbase & dpreview supporter
Dimage A2, Epsom 3200 scanner, HP 2500 printer
Photoshop CS, Qimage, ACDSee
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top