Which should I go for, clear 6mPixel (D70) or 8mPixel (8700)

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After reading "The Megapixel Myth by KenRockwell.com"
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm ,

I had second thoughts on buying the Nikon 8700, D70 seems to be anytime better than 8700 in terms of speed, ISO, quality. The only other advantage getting 8700 is its 8mPixel feature (apart from its size/weight).

Is it true that difference between 6 and 8mPixel is marginal? Is the noise in 8700 that bad compared to D70?

Would really appreciate your comments. Thank you.
 
Is it true that difference between 6 and 8mPixel is marginal? Is
the noise in 8700 that bad compared to D70?
IMHO, yes and yes! For image quality, 8mp doesn't have much advantage over 6mp. But 8mp does give you more space to crop. The image sensor (CCD) in D70 is larger than the one in 8700, thus it produces less noise. From what I learnt so far, ISO400 on 8700 is almost useless, but you can push the ISO on D70 to 1600 and still get usable pics. So if money is not a issue, go get D70, and if money really is NOT an issue, go get both 8700 and D70 :-)

--
Nikon Coolpix 5700
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Is it true that difference between 6 and 8mPixel is marginal? Is
the noise in 8700 that bad compared to D70?
If you are going to get an 8700 over a D70, it should be because you value the convenience of a small, light, less expensive camera with a good all-in-one lens. If you don't mind the cost and bulk of carrying around multiple lenses and a larger camera, the D70 is superior in every way.

But to directly answer your questions:

1) Yes, the difference is marginal. The image quality of the 6.1MP D70 will probably be superior to the 8MP 8700 in terms of resolution of detail. 8MP may mean you can make slightly larger prints, but that's about it (going by pixel count, the picture is increasing in size by 14% on each side). Nikon's top-of-the-line D2H is only 4MP...

2) Yes and no. With the 8700, you're pretty much restricted to ISO 50 or maybe 100 if you want to keep the noise level low. The D70 doesn't even go that low - its lowest is ISO 200. It can probably go down to ISO 1600 before seeing as much noise as the 8700 at ISO 200 or 400. So if you shoot in the lowest ISO each camera has (50 vs. 200), the noise levels will not be much different (but the 8700 will be much slower). But at the same ISO, the 8700 will be much noisier.

--
Jesse
(see profile for equipment)
 
After reading "The Megapixel Myth by KenRockwell.com"
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm ,
I had second thoughts on buying the Nikon 8700, D70 seems to be
anytime better than 8700 in terms of speed, ISO, quality. The only
other advantage getting 8700 is its 8mPixel feature (apart from its
size/weight).
The 8700 also has a closed sensor - very important in the field (changing a lens on a DSLR in dusty or humid/wet environments is asking for trouble - lots of cleaning later as a minimum).
Is it true that difference between 6 and 8mPixel is marginal? Is
the noise in 8700 that bad compared to D70?
Certainly the noise of the 8700 is worse than most 6mp DSLRs. On the plus side, the extra 2mp does make a difference. Resolution and image quality are not the same, and more mp gives more resolution (all things being equal), but image quality might suffer if you crank in more noise reduction or are taking night shots.

The technical reason why this is so is because the 8mp sensor chip is in the same area as the 5mp sensor chip, thus each sensor is smaller, and area of the sensor determines the amount of light gathered. However, there are more sensors, so you can resolve finer details.

Now, the DSLR has a much larger sensor area, so it does work better in low light. On the down side, the images from DSLRs typically need some post processing, meaning more computer time.

So, which is better? That depends upons what you want to do with the camera. The 8700 has excellent macro mode, a decent quality lens, and a lot of zoom range built in too. The D70 will need at least 2 lenses to cover this range (and the kit lens most likely is just adequate - this is the case of most DSLR 'kit' lenses - Canon and Sigma too).

For many, the fixed lens pro-sumer camera is a better buy. For those wanting to go the DSLR route, consider spending at least $2000, if not $2500, to get what you need for creative photography (camera body, a couple of high quality lenses, a good strobe, filters, lens hoods, batteries, bag, etc). Make a list of what you need, price each item, then decide whether the increased cost is really justified.

Oh, there is a difference between the 5mp and 8mp images - more resolved details with the 8mp, and less noise under darker conditions with the 5mp. (this is 5700 vs 8700)

For general use (for me that includes hiking and backpacking too), I prefer a closed sensor system. For creative indoor use, the DSLR is great, but I really don't like to change lenses in the field - cleaning sensors is not my idea of fun.

Wayne

--
Canon Digital Rebel, Nikon 5700, Nikon 8700, Panasonic LC5
 
Forgot to mention - when I go for a walk, I always grab the 5700 (or now, 8700). If I go for a photo session, I grab the DR. For vacations, I like the LC5 as it is the fastest (kids like the rides) to first shot.

Wayne

--
Canon Digital Rebel, Nikon 5700, Nikon 8700, Panasonic LC5
 
The "dirty secret" of the prosumer cameras, especially the 8mp models, is that they must be used at low ISO due to poor signal to nosce ratio. Look at the 8mp models and you will see the new low ISO 50-64.Furthermore, most of the pictures posted will be at these ISOs, occaisonally 100.Over 100 will demand noise-removal. This will limit you to bright light outdoors or close range flash- ie snapshots. Of course there are some very scenic places that look good in bright light, but those are the exception. The D70 with 50mm lens is a lightweight package that can be used in any light. Downside is sensor cleaning.
It all boils down to what you want to use it for.

Stuart
After reading "The Megapixel Myth by KenRockwell.com"
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm ,
I had second thoughts on buying the Nikon 8700, D70 seems to be
anytime better than 8700 in terms of speed, ISO, quality. The only
other advantage getting 8700 is its 8mPixel feature (apart from its
size/weight).

Is it true that difference between 6 and 8mPixel is marginal? Is
the noise in 8700 that bad compared to D70?

Would really appreciate your comments. Thank you.
 
If you don't mind the cost and bulk of carrying around multiple
lenses and a larger camera, the D70 is superior in every way.
Not in EVERY way. Think about flash synch, and availability.

Give me some time and I'll try to come up with something else :-).

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank,
FCAS Charter Member, Hummingbird Hunter
Contributing Editor, digicamhelp.com
http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/coolpix
 
... sealed system, so you never get dust on the sensor...
--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank,
FCAS Charter Member, Hummingbird Hunter
Contributing Editor, digicamhelp.com
http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/coolpix
 
Twist & swivel lcd... ability to preview...

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank,
FCAS Charter Member, Hummingbird Hunter
Contributing Editor, digicamhelp.com
http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/coolpix
--

the images will not exceed thaty of a DSLR. I own both the 8700 and the D1x & D100 and while the 8700 takes wonderful images for a nice easy to carry package, they are not better.

Greg Gebhardt in
Jacksonville, Florida
 
Ya got me on those, although my mindset was in terms of range of control and image quality. I should have mentioned those you listed when I said the 8700 would be more convenient.

--
Jesse
(see profile for equipment)
 
Not in EVERY way. Think about flash synch, and availability.
Hehe, true, the D70 might as well be vaporware to the consumer market ATM. But theoretically...

As for flash sync, that's something I need to learn about. The D70 already has better flash sync than the D2H. I know the Coolpixes have better flash sync than the DSLRs (despite the crippled external flash support), but not being big on flash use, I wouldn't know what to do with it. :)

--
Jesse
(see profile for equipment)
 
the images will not exceed thaty of a DSLR.
For "normal" situations, I wouldn't be afraid to match my 5700's pics with those from a dslr. Under extreme conditions, such as low light or action, the dslr has the clear advantage.

When I reach the point where my digicam limits my picture making ability, I'll definitely consider a dslr... but I'm no where near that point yet. And from what I've seen, only a few very advanced photographers EVER reach that point.

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank,
FCAS Charter Member, Hummingbird Hunter
Contributing Editor, digicamhelp.com
http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/coolpix
 
As for flash sync, that's something I need to learn about. The D70
already has better flash sync than the D2H. I know the Coolpixes
have better flash sync than the DSLRs...
The d70 synchs flash at 1/250th second, the 5700 synchs at 1/2000th second.
I wouldn't know what to do with it.
Stuff like this :-).



--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank,
FCAS Charter Member, Hummingbird Hunter
Contributing Editor, digicamhelp.com
http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/coolpix
 
The d70 synchs flash at 1/250th second
Actually it's 1/500. The D2H is 1/250.
Stuff like this :-).
But would a DSLR require 1/2000 in order to capture such a shot? Again, I don't use flash much (mostly since I don't have an external), so I don't know what is involved.

What exactly were the conditions in which you shot that image? Does one normally need to shoot with flash at 1/2000 to capture hummingbirds outdoors, or is that specifically to freeze the wings, or...?

Someday I'll get a flash and learn all this stuff. :) I've a few other things to get first though...

--
Jesse
(see profile for equipment)
 
What exactly were the conditions in which you shot that image?
Does one normally need to shoot with flash at 1/2000 to capture
hummingbirds outdoors, or is that specifically to freeze the wings,
To get the frozen wing shots, I shoot in full manual at a tight aperture (~ f/6), and at a shutter speed of 1/2000th second. That means I don't have enough natural light for a good exposure, even on a bright day, so I use fill flash. A dslr wouldn't work for this approach, since the wings beat at 80 cycles per second. At 1/500th, they'd be a blur.



Since this is a tiny niche specialty, it shouldn't dissuade you from buying a dslr. It's just one of the few areas where I can claim superiority for digicams :-).

--
Warm regards, Uncle Frank,
FCAS Charter Member, Hummingbird Hunter
Contributing Editor, digicamhelp.com
http://www.pbase.com/unclefrank/coolpix
 
. "This
will limit you to bright light outdoors or close range flash- ie
snapshots. Of course there are some very scenic places that look

good in bright light, but those are the exception. > It all boils down to what you want to use it for."
DOes this mean that I will have issues on, say, cloudy days...i.e. scenic overlook in the mountains on a cloudy day? I want a camera that does it all....I cant afford both the D70 and the 8700...I do have the 35mm Canon DR. DOes this mean I will need to carry both my canon and the 8700 (that will be in on Friday!) to cover all my photos?
Thanks!
Suzy
After reading "The Megapixel Myth by KenRockwell.com"
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm ,
I had second thoughts on buying the Nikon 8700, D70 seems to be
anytime better than 8700 in terms of speed, ISO, quality. The only
other advantage getting 8700 is its 8mPixel feature (apart from its
size/weight).

Is it true that difference between 6 and 8mPixel is marginal? Is
the noise in 8700 that bad compared to D70?

Would really appreciate your comments. Thank you.
 
As for flash sync, that's something I need to learn about. The D70
already has better flash sync than the D2H. I know the Coolpixes
have better flash sync than the DSLRs (despite the crippled
external flash support), but not being big on flash use, I wouldn't
know what to do with it. :)
The 8700 flash system is not the same as the 5700! You can turn off the internal flash (yes, it is a menu option) and use the hot shoe for ANY low voltage trigger flash (including the Wein Safe sync) without the internal flash firing. You still have the auto and both modes, but the off setting is of importance to non-Nikon TTL compatible flash units. Nikon TTL compatible flashes work as before.

The crippled external flash support is no longer valid.

Wayne

--
Canon Digital Rebel, Nikon 5700, Nikon 8700, Panasonic LC5
 

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