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The right lens to end the pain

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Dray-511

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For the last two years I have made an attempt to photograph High School football with an Olympus E20. Bad stadium lights and limited E20 functionality lead me to seek improvement. I staked my hopes on a Sony F828, but quickly came to the conclusion that it would fit for my nature work and portrait work but not for sports. Now I have a 10D, I am impressed with the speed and functionality. I am trying to end the pain in one final purchase. But I am not sure which Lens - Reach is important, Speed is important and price is important vice my dilemma!

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX APO HSM AF Canon

Sigma 50-500mm F4.0-6.3 APO EX RF HSM AF

or

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 USM

Here is what I am trying to improve upon!



--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
 
The other two are nice lenses, but not for this. You need the wide aperture of the F2.8 lens to give you enough shutter speed to stop the action (what your picture needs).

the 135f2 is another possibility. It is very sharp and fast but will limit your shots somewhat. The 200 f2.8 is another choice.

I use the 70-200 IS, but your first choice will be nearly as good and a whole bunch cheaper. An f4 lens won't get the job done unless you have extremely good lights. Search on the topic "high School Sports" and check the settings.

Duke
dray511 said:
For the last two years I have made an attempt to photograph High
School football with an Olympus E20. Bad stadium lights and
limited E20 functionality lead me to seek improvement. I staked my
hopes on a Sony F828, but quickly came to the conclusion that it
would fit for my nature work and portrait work but not for sports.
Now I have a 10D, I am impressed with the speed and functionality.
I am trying to end the pain in one final purchase. But I am not
sure which Lens - Reach is important, Speed is important and price
is important vice my dilemma!

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX APO HSM AF Canon

Sigma 50-500mm F4.0-6.3 APO EX RF HSM AF

or

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 USM

Here is what I am trying to improve upon!



--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
Click to expand...
 
maybe look for 70-200 f2.8L without IS it's cheaper ligter than f4
and it has faster af than sigma and on 10D Yo'll get 112-320mm
dukefleming said:
the 135f2 is another possibility. It is very sharp and fast but
will limit your shots somewhat. The 200 f2.8 is another choice.

I use the 70-200 IS, but your first choice will be nearly as good
and a whole bunch cheaper. An f4 lens won't get the job done
unless you have extremely good lights. Search on the topic "high
School Sports" and check the settings.

Duke
dray511 said:
For the last two years I have made an attempt to photograph High
School football with an Olympus E20. Bad stadium lights and
limited E20 functionality lead me to seek improvement. I staked my
hopes on a Sony F828, but quickly came to the conclusion that it
would fit for my nature work and portrait work but not for sports.
Now I have a 10D, I am impressed with the speed and functionality.
I am trying to end the pain in one final purchase. But I am not
sure which Lens - Reach is important, Speed is important and price
is important vice my dilemma!

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX APO HSM AF Canon

Sigma 50-500mm F4.0-6.3 APO EX RF HSM AF

or

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 USM

Here is what I am trying to improve upon!



--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
... There is another way ...
 
Was apparently what was used for these, looks like they were in good light, but fantastically sharp - not mine!

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=7745569

Mine are at http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=7825823 , with a not so impressive 28-105 f3.5.

Rugby is the nearest equivalent to american football I guess!

Simon
dray511 said:
For the last two years I have made an attempt to photograph High
School football with an Olympus E20. Bad stadium lights and
limited E20 functionality lead me to seek improvement. I staked my
hopes on a Sony F828, but quickly came to the conclusion that it
would fit for my nature work and portrait work but not for sports.
Now I have a 10D, I am impressed with the speed and functionality.
I am trying to end the pain in one final purchase. But I am not
sure which Lens - Reach is important, Speed is important and price
is important vice my dilemma!

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX APO HSM AF Canon

Sigma 50-500mm F4.0-6.3 APO EX RF HSM AF

or

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 USM

Here is what I am trying to improve upon!



--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
Click to expand...
--
http://www.miodem.com
Canon EOS 10D, Olympus E-10, Canon EOS 5

'The belief that something is NOT impossible is the absolute essence of discovery'
 
You guys have solidified what I was thinking. I gotta tell you the 50-500 sent me down a whole new path this morning. I figuring I would get about 5.6 at 300mm using ISO 800. I tired to find some night sports shots with the lens with no luck. Is this flawed thinking?

About the soccer pictures -- Trying to make up for the shortfall of the camera, I over sharpen sometimes in Photoshop.
SimonTay said:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=7745569

Mine are at

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=7825823 , with a not so impressive 28-105 f3.5.

Rugby is the nearest equivalent to american football I guess!

Simon
dray511 said:
For the last two years I have made an attempt to photograph High
School football with an Olympus E20. Bad stadium lights and
limited E20 functionality lead me to seek improvement. I staked my
hopes on a Sony F828, but quickly came to the conclusion that it
would fit for my nature work and portrait work but not for sports.
Now I have a 10D, I am impressed with the speed and functionality.
I am trying to end the pain in one final purchase. But I am not
sure which Lens - Reach is important, Speed is important and price
is important vice my dilemma!

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX APO HSM AF Canon

Sigma 50-500mm F4.0-6.3 APO EX RF HSM AF

or

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 USM

Here is what I am trying to improve upon!



--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
Click to expand...
--
http://www.miodem.com
Canon EOS 10D, Olympus E-10, Canon EOS 5
'The belief that something is NOT impossible is the absolute
essence of discovery'
Click to expand...
--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
 
dray511 said:
You guys have solidified what I was thinking. I gotta tell you the
50-500 sent me down a whole new path this morning. I figuring I
would get about 5.6 at 300mm using ISO 800. I tired to find some
night sports shots with the lens with no luck. Is this flawed
thinking?
Click to expand...
The Sigma 50-500mm is a very good lens in every aspect, but not made for low light action shooting.
You DEFINITELY need a f/2.8 or even faster lens.
tc

--
Some digital cameras, some lenses, 2 eyes

http://www.tom-crowning.com

 
dray511 said:
I am trying to end the pain in one final purchase. But I am not
sure which Lens
Click to expand...
the answer is not always in the lens :-)
Dray-511 said:
Here is what I am trying to improve upon!
Click to expand...
looks to me like you already have the reach part, have you considered fill-in flash for freezing the action?

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/better_beamer.shtml
http://www.naturephotographers.net/gs/gsbb.html

at $36 it's much cheaper than an L lens...

also don't be afraid to hike the 10D to ISO 1600 and even 3200, you may be surprised by the quality. you may need some cleanups, for that you have NeatImage or some of the actions from Fred Miranda (never tried FM's myself, I swear by NeatImage though)

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/software/neatimage.shtml
http://www.neatimage.com/
http://www.fredmiranda.com/10DISOR/

good luck!

--
One per customer
Ira Abramov
 
The posted image is cropped and I do use a flash in some situations. Everyonce in a while, a referree will remind you not to use the flash until the play is over (crazy I know). The E20 Lens is a only 105mm lens, the ISO goes to 320 and adding anything to the front of the lens makes the situation worse. I have been playing with my new 10d at 3200 and 1600 the jury is still out because I have not been to a sporting events since I purchased the camera.

Dray
Ira Abramov said:
dray511 said:
I am trying to end the pain in one final purchase. But I am not
sure which Lens
Click to expand...
the answer is not always in the lens :-)
Ira Abramov said:
Here is what I am trying to improve upon!
Click to expand...
looks to me like you already have the reach part, have you
considered fill-in flash for freezing the action?

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/better_beamer.shtml
http://www.naturephotographers.net/gs/gsbb.html

at $36 it's much cheaper than an L lens...

also don't be afraid to hike the 10D to ISO 1600 and even 3200, you
may be surprised by the quality. you may need some cleanups, for
that you have NeatImage or some of the actions from Fred Miranda
(never tried FM's myself, I swear by NeatImage though)

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/software/neatimage.shtml
http://www.neatimage.com/
http://www.fredmiranda.com/10DISOR/

good luck!

--
One per customer
Ira Abramov
Click to expand...
--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
 
I have used a variety of lenses in low light sports - 50 1.4, 70-200 4.0, 70-200 2.8IS, 85 1.8. I think 2.8 is the minimum and even faster is better. I haven't shot outdoor lowlight so maybe 2.8 is adequate but indoors in flat lighting, seems everything works against you - low contrast means hard to focus, wide aperture means shallow DOF and slow shutter speeds when you need 1/300 or faster.

So you may find yourself trying several lenses to find the best solution. For what I shoot, my preferred lens is the 85 1.8 unless I just have to have a longer lens. Many people swear by the Sigma since its so much cheaper than the Canon version. If you want to stay all Canon and like to shoot action, a great combo could be the 70-200 4.0, 85 1.8 and 135 2.0. Add a fast wide prime or short zoom and you'd have a great bag.
dray511 said:
For the last two years I have made an attempt to photograph High
School football with an Olympus E20. Bad stadium lights and
limited E20 functionality lead me to seek improvement. I staked my
hopes on a Sony F828, but quickly came to the conclusion that it
would fit for my nature work and portrait work but not for sports.
Now I have a 10D, I am impressed with the speed and functionality.
I am trying to end the pain in one final purchase. But I am not
sure which Lens - Reach is important, Speed is important and price
is important vice my dilemma!

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX APO HSM AF Canon

Sigma 50-500mm F4.0-6.3 APO EX RF HSM AF

or

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 USM

Here is what I am trying to improve upon!



--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
Click to expand...
 
but night time lights are a totally different situation. Sometimes, even f2.8 is slow. The exception is in college stadiums or similar fields where lights are better for TV or in some new high school stadiums. I saw some pictures from a high school in Texas that looked like they were shot in the daytime. Wish I had that assignment. (-;

Duke
SimonTay said:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1031&message=7745569

Mine are at

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=7825823 , with a not so impressive 28-105 f3.5.

Rugby is the nearest equivalent to american football I guess!

Simon
dray511 said:
For the last two years I have made an attempt to photograph High
School football with an Olympus E20. Bad stadium lights and
limited E20 functionality lead me to seek improvement. I staked my
hopes on a Sony F828, but quickly came to the conclusion that it
would fit for my nature work and portrait work but not for sports.
Now I have a 10D, I am impressed with the speed and functionality.
I am trying to end the pain in one final purchase. But I am not
sure which Lens - Reach is important, Speed is important and price
is important vice my dilemma!

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX APO HSM AF Canon

Sigma 50-500mm F4.0-6.3 APO EX RF HSM AF

or

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 USM

Here is what I am trying to improve upon!



--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
Click to expand...
--
http://www.miodem.com
Canon EOS 10D, Olympus E-10, Canon EOS 5
'The belief that something is NOT impossible is the absolute
essence of discovery'
Click to expand...
 
you are shooting actions shots anyway and need a relatively fast shutter speed? I have a 300/4 which is to much for indoor sport plus probably not fast enough. A 100-400 which isn't any faster at the low end and not sharp at the long end.

Unless you are using it in low light for something other than sports wouldn't the 70-200 non IS fare just as well. If I can save the difference and by another fast lens (prime),
John R
 
randy jk said:
So you may find yourself trying several lenses to find the best
solution. For what I shoot, my preferred lens is the 85 1.8 unless
I just have to have a longer lens. Many people swear by the Sigma
since its so much cheaper than the Canon version. If you want to
stay all Canon and like to shoot action, a great combo could be the
70-200 4.0, 85 1.8 and 135 2.0. Add a fast wide prime or short
zoom and you'd have a great bag.
dray511 said:
For the last two years I have made an attempt to photograph High
School football with an Olympus E20. Bad stadium lights and
limited E20 functionality lead me to seek improvement. I staked my
hopes on a Sony F828, but quickly came to the conclusion that it
would fit for my nature work and portrait work but not for sports.
Now I have a 10D, I am impressed with the speed and functionality.
I am trying to end the pain in one final purchase. But I am not
sure which Lens - Reach is important, Speed is important and price
is important vice my dilemma!

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX APO HSM AF Canon

Sigma 50-500mm F4.0-6.3 APO EX RF HSM AF

or

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 USM

Here is what I am trying to improve upon!



--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
 
... for dark action. The other two lenses are just not fast enough.
If you decide you need the extra reach, you can always get a 1.4 or 1x TC.

Get the 70-200 2.8 and you will not regret it.

Duncan
dray511 said:
For the last two years I have made an attempt to photograph High
School football with an Olympus E20. Bad stadium lights and
limited E20 functionality lead me to seek improvement. I staked my
hopes on a Sony F828, but quickly came to the conclusion that it
would fit for my nature work and portrait work but not for sports.
Now I have a 10D, I am impressed with the speed and functionality.
I am trying to end the pain in one final purchase. But I am not
sure which Lens - Reach is important, Speed is important and price
is important vice my dilemma!

Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX APO HSM AF Canon

Sigma 50-500mm F4.0-6.3 APO EX RF HSM AF

or

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 USM

Here is what I am trying to improve upon!



--
http://dray511.smugmug.com/gallery/60676
Click to expand...
--
http://www.actionimages.ca
 
I think IS in this situation has none to limited value. Probably depends on the shutter speed you can get. If 1/500 or faster, can't see it helping much. But if you are handholding and the speeds drop below this, it can't hurt other than consuming battery power. I certainly wouldn't buy it based on using it for this situation.

I think a fast longer prime is worth having for low light sports. I got a couple stunning shots the first time I used the 85 1.8 that I don't think would have been possible with the 70-200 2.8, one was taken at f1.8, 1/200 @ ISO 800. Probably the sharpest shot I have taken in low light and wide open at that!
John Harrison said:
you are shooting actions shots anyway and need a relatively fast
shutter speed? I have a 300/4 which is to much for indoor sport
plus probably not fast enough. A 100-400 which isn't any faster at
the low end and not sharp at the long end.
Unless you are using it in low light for something other than
sports wouldn't the 70-200 non IS fare just as well. If I can save
the difference and by another fast lens (prime),
John R
Click to expand...
 
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