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Has Nikon Lost it?

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Hello.

All Valid points and did not intend to imply my comments to everyone.

I was not complainig about the lack of FF as I do not have a need or deep enough pockets to buy one:-) But if there was a need and enough money it would be nice to have the option of a one system approach supported by one manufacturer.

As to improvement, yes it seems more features for less initial outlay the functionality you get in a d100 or the d70 is fantastic for the price tags.

The only thing that niggles me about nikon is their warranty but this is common to a few manufacturers. And i did complain to Nikon on this but final result was no result.

Oh and user that will have pistols at dawn for any comment against Nikon, or Canon for canon user, or sony or pentax etc.

Its a tool produced by a company that wants to make a profit, and will genrate products that address a large user base if possible.

Thanks for the response.
Man-Fai Wong said:
Camand said:
wow its funny to see how quick this thread fell apart, and it was
decided this was a troll.
Click to expand...
Well, some of the reaction are probably due to people simply being
tired of this line of thinking and complaining -- some are probably
trolls while others are just impatient, but sincere, folk.

And just like them, you're pretty quick to judge that we all think
Jim's a troll already. OTOH, good trolls are not quite so easy to
spot, and the jury's still out on this one.
Man-Fai Wong said:
To some extent it’s a shame that there is so much defending
undertaken with regards to gear.
Click to expand...
Well, I guess that's bound to happen. Happens in the Canon forums
too. People have feelings afterall, and while the complainer may
just be impatient, so can forum regulars w/ the same old complaints.

If all these complainers are for real, they should go complain to
Nikon more directly. Also, if he's going to post, at least be a
little bit better inform and get his facts straight. It's hard to
be taken seriously otherwise.
Man-Fai Wong said:
And yes Nikon is not as large as Canon but it would still be nice
to have one body that offered FF and possibly 8, 11 mega pixel or
higher for people who could use it or wanted such a camera.
Click to expand...
It would be even nicer if Nikon had this or did that too. It's
silly to seemingly agree w/ the sentiment and then still complain
about the FF situation. Canon only has 1 FF body so far you know.
It's not like Canon's got 2 or 3 concurrent models available w/ at
least one mid-tier range. You're talking about a niche market w/in
a niche market there. The 1Ds is probably more for show as
flagship model than for real consumption at its price tag. Also,
is FF really necessary and truly desirable? Or are we just stuck
w/ legacy thinking? We don't even know if Canon is really
committed to FF at this point, so why complain so much about Nikon?

As someone else pointed out, for those who need FF for image
quality, perhaps they really should consider medium format digital
in the long run. Maybe it really makes more sense to shift some of
those needs up to a truly different format, instead of shoehorning
multiple crop factors into DSLRs. Most people don't seem to need
FF it seems, and 1.5x crop factor seems like a good compromise for
most w/ potential savings down the line w/ lens manufacturing,
weight/size, etc. It could possibly deliver more of the original
point of 35mm film format.

And surely, there's still plenty room for improvement w/ DSLRs, no?
As it is, many seem to feel that even today's 1.5/1.6x crop 6MP
DSLRs already rival 35mm film format for image quality.

Anyway, as I said above, Canon only has 1 model so far, and has not
shown real commitment for much more, especially given the 1DMk2's
1.3x crop factor. And on Nikon side, you do have Kodak as
alternative for FF for now. If you need FF now for your Nikon
glass, you do actually have an option.

Man

--
Just another amateur -- see profile for more + some basic photog
resources.
As usual, YMMV + caveat emptor.
Contact me at [email protected]
Indulge my fancies at http://www.pbase.com/mandnwong
Click to expand...
 
Jim Nicholls said:
Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders.
Click to expand...
Both brands follow and lead at different times and in different areas. Canon are leading at present in some areas, but that's not the end of the world for you Nikon folk (Try to find a decent wide-angle lens for a 1D/10D!). I seriously considered switching to Nikon in 2000, to get my hands on a D1 when Canon had nothing like it. If you switch brands every time something new comes out then you will go bankrupt!
Jim Nicholls said:
Prime lens prices are astronmical.
Click to expand...
Prime lens prices are astronomical for any major brand. If you want pro glass, you have to pay pro prices. Take it or leave it.
Jim Nicholls said:
the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D.
Click to expand...
Doesn't seem to be rushed to me, but I haven't looked at one yet, let alone touched it. The D70 is a prime example of the lead changing I mentioned above. It PULVERIZES the 300D for specs, but if I had a 300D and a big collection of Canon glass I wouldn't be jumping ship for it. Why? because sooner or later Canon will release a better camera. Then Nikon will release a better camera...... ad-infinitem. You change for a system, not a single body. Both systems have strong plus and minus. Pick the one that suits you.
Jim Nicholls said:
But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal).
Click to expand...
So what? Are you in the market for a $8000 body? Canon have sold a dismally low number of 1Ds bodies. I have used Canon digital bodies since 2001, and I have never NEEDED an FF body. The sole advantage (currently) is for wide angle, and at least at present Nikon has that covered with DX lenses. Perhaps in future FF will be needed to solve noise with increased pixel densities but at the moment this is not an issue. FF also has some disadvantages especially when shooting with a telephoto. I sometimes wish my 1D was 'only' 1.5x!

Besides, if you NEED a Nikon FF then you could always get a Kodak.

Bottom line:

Stop complaining and take pictures. Digital cameras are like computers: If you keep waiting for the 'next new thing' then you will never buy anything. The current DSLRs from (almost) any manufacturer are probably better that you can use anyway (no insult intended) so there is no reason not to buy one. No matter what major brand you choose, there will always be an upgrade path.
 
Stephen Simpson127975 said:
Jim Nichoills said:
But worst of all, they still don't have a full frame DSLR (this is
almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are you going to
get your act together?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I agree totally with what Stephen said about the D70. It has all the makings of a block buster.

On the full frame dSLR aspect, you also seem to forget that Nikon has forged alliances with Kodak and Fuji. That means the end user has many choices in bodies from various manufacturers.

Kodak has just brought to the plate the Pro SLR n. Maybe one day, they will bring to the plate the Pro SLR c. This camera, the successor to the 14n, seems to have fixed the issues that the 14n had. In fact, Kodak is nice enough to offer an upgrade to the 14n so that you can get most of the features and improvements of the Pro SLR n in an original 14n. Of course, I don't need to remind you that the Kodak offering is the HIGHER mp 35 mm format SLR on the market.

Then there's Fuji who is bringing out the S3. This camera, with its super CCD SR, should be able to capture more stops of dynamic range than any other dSLR on the market.

As for the lenses, after waiting for the 70-200 VR to be released for more than a year, I can tell you that it was well worth the wait. Yes, I would have liked to get it earlier. But I'm also a realist and I know sometimes things take time. The 17-55 DX as well as the 200-400 VR should be out in the next month or so.

Speaking of DX lenses, I haven't noticed Canon coming out with anything comparable. Yes, you can purchase a 1Ds for getting wide angle images, but this doesn't do very much for the Mark II users or the 10D and 300D users. Nikon was at least smart enough to cover all the bases and whether you have the most expensive Nikon mount camera or a cheaper one, you can still take images wide angle with them.

No, Nikon hasn't lost anything. But I do think Canon is missing a few things.
--
Tony

http://homepage.mac.com/a5m http://www.pbase.com/a5m
 
Yves P. said:
Not, it is my birthday today, find the budget with the papers and
fly me to your country so we can hve a beer or to and shoot some
pictures with our toys ...

Have a good day Gerard.
Click to expand...
...... well we must manage something, maybe you could team up with the other wedding photographer and get passage as his assistant, we could meet up and have a shindig.

Sounds a nice idea.
 
DoF said:
I am just so tired of hearing the dame drivel flow from your
keyboard. Your lack of positive contribution to this forum speaks
very loudly.
Click to expand...
.... so speak up for YOUR chosen product then.

I do, very clearly.

Merely doing the hound-dog on it will not convince anyone else that YOU are happy with YOUR gear. Your post (here) just comes across as sour grapes and possible jealousy.

Where we came in: telling people to buy Canon is not very encouraging to anyone interested in Nikon gear, people often just scan the headlines, I don’t think even sarcastic posts like ‘I hate my …….!’ Is of any benefit to the casual reader, as they often will not get the sarcasm.

If you like your Nikon gear, say so, I love my Canon gear.

In this splinter I have said nothing negative about Nikon, I asked people not to tell others to buy Canon and you to say something constructive, like ‘I support Ger Bee on this one, we should be more positive in our OWN outlook!”

Cheers ... ;)))
 
nobody needs to defend nikon from other brand user opinion.
Ger Bee said:
DoF said:
I am just so tired of hearing the dame drivel flow from your
keyboard. Your lack of positive contribution to this forum speaks
very loudly.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Ger Bee said:
.... so speak up for YOUR chosen product then.
Click to expand...
National geographiic likes nikon dslrs . To me it says alot about its quality.
Ger Bee said:
I do, very clearly.

Merely doing the hound-dog on it will not convince anyone else that
YOU are happy with YOUR gear. Your post (here) just comes across as
sour grapes and possible jealousy.

Where we came in: telling people to buy Canon is not very
encouraging to anyone interested in Nikon gear, people often just
scan the headlines, I don’t think even sarcastic posts like ‘I hate
my …….!’ Is of any benefit to the casual reader, as they often will
not get the sarcasm.

If you like your Nikon gear, say so, I love my Canon gear.

In this splinter I have said nothing negative about Nikon, I asked
people not to tell others to buy Canon and you to say something
constructive, like ‘I support Ger Bee on this one, we should be
more positive in our OWN outlook!”

Cheers ... ;)))
Click to expand...
--
Craig H. north jersey
http://www.pbase.com/craigh
 
one year after Nikon introduced D1, canon users' prayers were only answered with a D30. Did you think nikon was 'way ahead' at that time? Were you able to foresee 1D MkII and 1Ds at that time?
Jim Nichoills said:
Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim
Click to expand...
 
I agree with every point made here and this is one of the best reponses I've seen to this type of flamebait.

Canon lost me a long time ago when they turned my bag full of FD Glass into worthless junk if I wanted to stay with their system. I didn't.

I prefer Nikon's pace and the options available to me using their system. I have a D2H which fills my needs rather nicely but I do want to span out in the future. Kodak now has something that is quite interesting in the Pro SLR/n and Fuji is coming out witth the S3. Nikon should also have an uplift to the D1X at some point. If I decide I can't wait for Nikon I do have a choice from both Kodak and Fuji so I find little to complain about.
GoTheCanon said:
Bust212349 said:
Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders.
Click to expand...
Both brands follow and lead at different times and in different
areas. Canon are leading at present in some areas, but that's not
the end of the world for you Nikon folk (Try to find a decent
wide-angle lens for a 1D/10D!). I seriously considered switching to
Nikon in 2000, to get my hands on a D1 when Canon had nothing like
it. If you switch brands every time something new comes out then
you will go bankrupt!
Bust212349 said:
Prime lens prices are astronmical.
Click to expand...
Prime lens prices are astronomical for any major brand. If you want
pro glass, you have to pay pro prices. Take it or leave it.
Bust212349 said:
the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D.
Click to expand...
Doesn't seem to be rushed to me, but I haven't looked at one yet,
let alone touched it. The D70 is a prime example of the lead
changing I mentioned above. It PULVERIZES the 300D for specs, but
if I had a 300D and a big collection of Canon glass I wouldn't be
jumping ship for it. Why? because sooner or later Canon will
release a better camera. Then Nikon will release a better
camera...... ad-infinitem. You change for a system, not a single
body. Both systems have strong plus and minus. Pick the one that
suits you.
Bust212349 said:
But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal).
Click to expand...
So what? Are you in the market for a $8000 body? Canon have sold a
dismally low number of 1Ds bodies. I have used Canon digital bodies
since 2001, and I have never NEEDED an FF body. The sole advantage
(currently) is for wide angle, and at least at present Nikon has
that covered with DX lenses. Perhaps in future FF will be needed to
solve noise with increased pixel densities but at the moment this
is not an issue. FF also has some disadvantages especially when
shooting with a telephoto. I sometimes wish my 1D was 'only' 1.5x!

Besides, if you NEED a Nikon FF then you could always get a Kodak.

Bottom line:

Stop complaining and take pictures. Digital cameras are like
computers: If you keep waiting for the 'next new thing' then you
will never buy anything. The current DSLRs from (almost) any
manufacturer are probably better that you can use anyway (no insult
intended) so there is no reason not to buy one. No matter what
major brand you choose, there will always be an upgrade path.
Click to expand...
--
Shad
-----------------------------------------------------
What piano should I buy if I want to play like Mozart?

...Kit in profile...
...pbase supporter...
...Nikonians supporter...
...Charter Member Team Yellow Hands...
 
Rushed out...what, a year is rushing it? You sound like some of the programmers at work.
Jim Nichoills said:
Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Ger Bee said:
.... so speak up for YOUR chosen product then.

I do, very clearly.

Merely doing the hound-dog on it will not convince anyone else that
YOU are happy with YOUR gear. Your post (here) just comes across as
sour grapes and possible jealousy.

Where we came in: telling people to buy Canon is not very
encouraging to anyone interested in Nikon gear, people often just
scan the headlines, I don’t think even sarcastic posts like ‘I hate
my …….!’ Is of any benefit to the casual reader, as they often will
not get the sarcasm.

If you like your Nikon gear, say so, I love my Canon gear.

In this splinter I have said nothing negative about Nikon, I asked
people not to tell others to buy Canon and you to say something
constructive, like ‘I support Ger Bee on this one, we should be
more positive in our OWN outlook!”

Cheers ... ;)))
Click to expand...
 
I like the D70, D100 and the D2H and I like the 10D, 1D, 1Ds and 1D markII. They are all good cameras. I could not have said it better than you, Canon man. When I receive my D70, I will be a happy Nikon and Canon owner. People are going to buy Nikons and Canons. I would love to have the 1Ds. Can't afford it, as is with most of us. I can afford a D70 and for the price right now at this date and time I like it best. Six months from now that might change. Big deal. The D70 will still take good pictures if it is not broke. They both, (Canon & Nikon) have their ups and downs. Bottom Line.
GoTheCanon said:
Bust212349 said:
Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders.
Click to expand...
Both brands follow and lead at different times and in different
areas. Canon are leading at present in some areas, but that's not
the end of the world for you Nikon folk (Try to find a decent
wide-angle lens for a 1D/10D!). I seriously considered switching to
Nikon in 2000, to get my hands on a D1 when Canon had nothing like
it. If you switch brands every time something new comes out then
you will go bankrupt!
Bust212349 said:
Prime lens prices are astronmical.
Click to expand...
Prime lens prices are astronomical for any major brand. If you want
pro glass, you have to pay pro prices. Take it or leave it.
Bust212349 said:
the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D.
Click to expand...
Doesn't seem to be rushed to me, but I haven't looked at one yet,
let alone touched it. The D70 is a prime example of the lead
changing I mentioned above. It PULVERIZES the 300D for specs, but
if I had a 300D and a big collection of Canon glass I wouldn't be
jumping ship for it. Why? because sooner or later Canon will
release a better camera. Then Nikon will release a better
camera...... ad-infinitem. You change for a system, not a single
body. Both systems have strong plus and minus. Pick the one that
suits you.
Bust212349 said:
But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal).
Click to expand...
So what? Are you in the market for a $8000 body? Canon have sold a
dismally low number of 1Ds bodies. I have used Canon digital bodies
since 2001, and I have never NEEDED an FF body. The sole advantage
(currently) is for wide angle, and at least at present Nikon has
that covered with DX lenses. Perhaps in future FF will be needed to
solve noise with increased pixel densities but at the moment this
is not an issue. FF also has some disadvantages especially when
shooting with a telephoto. I sometimes wish my 1D was 'only' 1.5x!

Besides, if you NEED a Nikon FF then you could always get a Kodak.

Bottom line:

Stop complaining and take pictures. Digital cameras are like
computers: If you keep waiting for the 'next new thing' then you
will never buy anything. The current DSLRs from (almost) any
manufacturer are probably better that you can use anyway (no insult
intended) so there is no reason not to buy one. No matter what
major brand you choose, there will always be an upgrade path.
Click to expand...
 
Jim Nichoills said:
Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim
Click to expand...
--
Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
 
frankh138191 said:
frankh138191 said:
.... so speak up for YOUR chosen product then.
Click to expand...
National geographiic likes nikon dslrs . To me it says alot about
its quality.
frankh138191 said:
I do, very clearly.

Merely doing the hound-dog on it will not convince anyone else that
YOU are happy with YOUR gear. Your post (here) just comes across as
sour grapes and possible jealousy.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I'm not here to defend Ger Bee or anyone else, and I have been a Nikon owner for a long time. But only Ger Bee and the original poster seem to be acknowledging the real plight that some professional shooters seem to see for themselves in, with not knowing Nikon's road map for the future.

Canon's road map seems to be clear: 1. Make High-Rez smaller format PJ/General Purpose PRO Bodies. 2. Make Very High-Rez Full Format PRO Bodies. 3. Make "fairly" High-Rez smaller format "Non-Pro" bodies. The future is not so clear with Nikon branded products, and many of us don't know if we should wait Nikon out, continue to buy Nikon compatable products (S2/3, Kodak SLRn) or bite the high cost bullet and jump ship.

Let me give a real world example of a friend of mine. He was relating a story of a $8000USD stock-photo sale he lost, because the Digital image that the buyer liked wasn't high Rez enough. And then the stock agency came back to him and said that future submissions should be shot with a Canon 1Ds!!!!! The agency happly accepted D1x shots in the past, but now they think they are not good enough to be competitive in the market. Now he has to decide if he should buy the lower featured Kodak SLRn, wait for Nikon in the hope that they come out with something competitive, or switch to Canon.

The world isn't just made up of photo-journalists and serious ameraturs who can be satified with "good-enough", or wait for it to be so. In various Pro markets, some "savy" clients are demanding a high level of proformance from us, and if we can't deliver, we won't be competing.

------Joseph
 
Don't feed the trolls... anyone who can look at what the D70 has
and think that it is a rush job to match the Canon is obviously a troll.
Jim Nichoills said:
Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim
Click to expand...
 
And read what GoTheCanon has to say. He speaks the truth. The rest of this stuff to include the original message really means little or nothing because in the end we all buy different cameras on different budgets and take different pictures for different purposes whether it be professional or pleasure or both. I like both. Nikon and Canon. Why? Because I like to take pictures and they both do it well.
Joseph Larson said:
Joseph Larson said:
Joseph Larson said:
.... so speak up for YOUR chosen product then.
Click to expand...
National geographiic likes nikon dslrs . To me it says alot about
its quality.
Joseph Larson said:
I do, very clearly.

Merely doing the hound-dog on it will not convince anyone else that
YOU are happy with YOUR gear. Your post (here) just comes across as
sour grapes and possible jealousy.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I'm not here to defend Ger Bee or anyone else, and I have been a
Nikon owner for a long time. But only Ger Bee and the original
poster seem to be acknowledging the real plight that some
professional shooters seem to see for themselves in, with not
knowing Nikon's road map for the future.

Canon's road map seems to be clear: 1. Make High-Rez smaller
format PJ/General Purpose PRO Bodies. 2. Make Very High-Rez Full
Format PRO Bodies. 3. Make "fairly" High-Rez smaller format
"Non-Pro" bodies. The future is not so clear with Nikon branded
products, and many of us don't know if we should wait Nikon out,
continue to buy Nikon compatable products (S2/3, Kodak SLRn) or
bite the high cost bullet and jump ship.

Let me give a real world example of a friend of mine. He was
relating a story of a $8000USD stock-photo sale he lost, because
the Digital image that the buyer liked wasn't high Rez enough. And
then the stock agency came back to him and said that future
submissions should be shot with a Canon 1Ds!!!!! The agency
happly accepted D1x shots in the past, but now they think they are
not good enough to be competitive in the market. Now he has to
decide if he should buy the lower featured Kodak SLRn, wait for
Nikon in the hope that they come out with something competitive, or
switch to Canon.

The world isn't just made up of photo-journalists and serious
ameraturs who can be satified with "good-enough", or wait for it to
be so. In various Pro markets, some "savy" clients are demanding a
high level of proformance from us, and if we can't deliver, we
won't be competing.

------Joseph
Click to expand...
 
Don't you guys have anything else to do? If you look through a camera, you see the world in an entirely different way. Both Canon and Nikon make incredible technological imagining devices that barely existed in anyone's imagination 10 years ago. Enjoy it, shoot your poison, look at images, find ways to encourage each other and get to work. Save all this emotion for you love live's

Jeez louise!

Best to all

Geoff
 
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