Are there other good cameras, YES.

The only problem I see here is with the name calling (e.g. troll). Believe it or not, some of us are new to this and would like to see the merits of various brands and models discussed thoroughly. The best way to do that is through comparison. The idea that everybody should meekly keep to their own little space out of fear that a comparison might be introduced seems silly. Currently I'm very interested in hearing specifically why people think this or that camera is better than its competition. If that means a separate comparison forum is needed in order to placate the sensitive, then so be it. I don't work for a camera manufacturer and don't want to feel like I have to take some loyalty oath. None of them are above criticism or unworthy of praise.

Wild-Mike said:

To learn about Canon 300D, go to this forum. To learn about Nikon,
go to the Nikon forum, etc., etc.

Also, read Phil's reviews and look at some of the unprocessed photos.

Learn what you are looking for in a camera, what your shooting
requirements are, etc. Then determine your needs.

Regards,
Mike

Click to expand...

...this place has areas of thin ice if you are sensitive to some of the aggressive posters. I can't imagine what the world would be like if everything had to stay so pigeonholed. Nothin new could be tried. Digital cameras would never be invented. Medical cures - hah! Yet some of these folks are supposedly creative!

Additionally, most readers of this forum , like any other on the internet, do not post. They lurk and read.

Stan

yes, I agree. a specific forum to compare the merits and drawbacks of each camera would be very helpful. as folks like me narrow down our choices and have very specific questions then entering that brands forum would probably be most beneficial, but to start at a specific forum gets you all the praise and nuance for the camera in question with very little objective criticism.

what I've discovered is that the buying guide is a very good first step at helping one identify what is most important to their photographic process. as you then research one or two choices, the more you learn new things that are not a part of the spec comparisons that might actually be deal-breakers for some - like shutter lag.

a respectful debate forum would be great. in fact I already know my first question to throw out there: What digital camera will most approximate a leica-street-shooter style and why?

at this point my answer would be the Olympus c-5050 or c-5060 because of the imressive 'my mode' control, form factor, fast lens and quality optics at five megapixels.

I guess I'll throw it out there in the general forum and see if it sticks, or if people just defend their purchase decision. but again, a specific form for debate would be great.

thanks for everyone's input,
keats

notpc said:

Wild-Mike said:

To learn about Canon 300D, go to this forum. To learn about Nikon,
go to the Nikon forum, etc., etc.

Also, read Phil's reviews and look at some of the unprocessed photos.

Learn what you are looking for in a camera, what your shooting
requirements are, etc. Then determine your needs.

Regards,
Mike

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

There are posters here that take every oportunity to bash a camera and continue to do it over, and over, and over, and over again. Making the same point hundreds of times. That gets tiresome.

Besides that, a lot of the comparisons are extremely biased, especially by the camera bashers, ...so in my opinion the best place is to read Phil's review and to determine what you need as far as a camera goes.

Hopefully, with Phil's threat of banning there will more posters adhering to the rules posted by the owner of this site, for example, I have seen this rule broken by several posters:

Bashing - Deliberately and repeatedly bashing the same brand, product or company will get you banned. If you have a complaint or comment to make then make it once and make sure you have facts to support it. See first rule.

I know of one poster that I would suspect works for Nikon or has a friend that works for Nikon. But then, I don't want to name names.

Hopefully this poster's incessant actions will diminish.

Also, all this new person needs to do is ...like you said "They lurk and read" well they can read the posts about the comparisons ...there are tons of them here. All he needs to do is search for D70 in this forum and hundreds will show up. There is no need to keep posting the same thing over and over again. It is not only annoying, it is against the rules.

Regards,
Mike

Stan said:

...this place has areas of thin ice if you are sensitive to some of
the aggressive posters. I can't imagine what the world would be
like if everything had to stay so pigeonholed. Nothin new could be
tried. Digital cameras would never be invented. Medical cures -
hah! Yet some of these folks are supposedly creative!

Additionally, most readers of this forum , like any other on the
internet, do not post. They lurk and read.

Stan

Click to expand...

--
300D Gallery:
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

Joy in looking and comprehending is nature's most beautiful gift. -- Albert Einstein

...as there are too many possible combinations and permutations to work.

So how do youd do it? You do it by having such comparisons stay in their own thread, as they generally do already. Notice that many of the posts angry about such comparisons themselves are highly active in those same, exact threads. Noone is forcing them to keep clicking and typing and posting.

Pretty Remarkable.

You'll see lots of heated discussions as various similarly priced DSLRs enter the Drebel price range and endeavor to compete. This sort of thing comes in waves.

Stan

..Phil's tests and comments aren't the final word. Talking about different cameras and photography during such an era of collosal change in the industry and field is rather normal I'd say. I think it's good.

Stan

Stan said:

..Phil's tests and comments aren't the final word.

Click to expand...

No, and I agree. I have no problem with someone asking intelligent questions about cameras they plan to purchase.

But then there are some posters that have gone overboard. Take the D70 for example, the camera wasn't even available and so-called experts were crawling out of the woodwork toting how great it was. There were no images available as examples yet, and what appeared to be trolls jumped on the oportunity to bash the Canon 300D ...even though it should have been a comparison to Canon's 10D. Heck, Nikon even asked Phil "not" to post any images from the D70 he had used for his initial review.

It is the obsessive few that are annoying, not those truly interested in knowledge.

Regards
Mike

It really doesn't matter to me whether it's another forum or not, I just want people to be able to talk about these things comparatively without some people (let's call them the "troll police") trying to stifle the discussion. If someone isn't interested in the topic, he/she doesn't have to participate. Unfortunately the zeal to control seems to drown out that bit of logic.

In my short time here, I know that I've learned the most about equipment from these kind of threads. Things that are not quickly discernable from a long feature list suddenly become very apparent when someone is praising or criticising a camera. For example, when I first started reading, one of the most informative discussions I came across was a debate about the crippling of the Rebel. Some hated having the term applied to their camera, but it seems to be factually based and I learned a lot in one thread. Same thing for the Pro1 vs Rebel discussions.

keats said:

yes, I agree. a specific forum to compare the merits and drawbacks
of each camera would be very helpful. as folks like me narrow down
our choices and have very specific questions then entering that
brands forum would probably be most beneficial, but to start at a
specific forum gets you all the praise and nuance for the camera in
question with very little objective criticism.

what I've discovered is that the buying guide is a very good first
step at helping one identify what is most important to their
photographic process. as you then research one or two choices, the
more you learn new things that are not a part of the spec
comparisons that might actually be deal-breakers for some - like
shutter lag.

a respectful debate forum would be great. in fact I already know
my first question to throw out there: What digital camera will
most approximate a leica-street-shooter style and why?

at this point my answer would be the Olympus c-5050 or c-5060
because of the imressive 'my mode' control, form factor, fast lens
and quality optics at five megapixels.

I guess I'll throw it out there in the general forum and see if it
sticks, or if people just defend their purchase decision. but
again, a specific form for debate would be great.

thanks for everyone's input,
keats

Click to expand...

..the Drebel and the D70. If you're near CT you're welcome to try it out. Supposedly I'll have it late next month.

Stan

Actually, I wouldn't be interested in Nikon. And I am so tired of comparisons I might just throw up.

I choose the Canon line on the advise of several pros that have both lines. I already invested in Canon lenses and the 300D is just a temporary body since I am waiting for some new advancements in DSLR.

In any case, the Nikon D70 looks promising and hope that the images turn out better than the ones I've seen. I did see some decent ones at one site, but not sure how much processing was involved or if NeatImage or something like that was used to process the images.

My biggest concern for this market is that no company gets a monopoly. That is not good for consumers ...look at our utility companies like the gas company. Hope the D70 proves to be some stiff competition to Canon ...that will only help me in the future. Unfortunately, nobody really knows yet, at least until some scientific image testing is completed.

Regards,
Mike

Stan said:

..the Drebel and the D70. If you're near CT you're welcome to try
it out. Supposedly I'll have it late next month.

Stan

Click to expand...

--
300D Gallery:
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

Joy in looking and comprehending is nature's most beautiful gift. -- Albert Einstein