The Great Paper Chase

Matt,

Most Swellable papers (glossy or pearl/matte) have some form of curvature under high humidity conditions. Not unlike silver halide prints from labs, those also have slight curling lengthwise...

So far, I have experienced a little curling with these swellable papers (including Ilford Classic Pearl), but they are NOT serious to raise any alarm. But I understand that this curling may be more pronounced in high-humidity areas.

No remedy except to try to curl the way opposite to the original shape and then leave it under some heavy weight (such as books). :)
--
fotografer

...the great paper chase! (see http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )
 
(Please post your thoughts and comments under the Readers’ Response
thread below)
Okay, perhaps ‘Great’ is a little too pompous, but hey, it has got
to be a little more catchy than titles like “HP Photosmart 7150
Paper Review” or the down-right boring ones like “Paper
Compatibility to Tri-Colour No.57 & Photo No. 58 Cartridges”. ;)
But whatever the title may be, the quest is the same, and a serious
one – to discover that elusive paper with the look, feel, image
quality, and perhaps even longevity, of real silver-halide
photographs. Like many of you, I was hit by the
test-your-printer-till-it-drops (TYP-TID) syndrome soon after I
acquired and powered up my ps7150 in February this year.



I am sure you are familiar with the heavenly-feelings when the very
first print emerged from the printer. That glassy-eyed,
I-can’t-believe-my-eyes euphoric high was difficult to put in
words. However, when the pixy-dust settled somewhat (for me, it
happened the day after), I started to notice things I somehow
conveniently missed while I was so completely in the trance the day
before.
Colours were bright but a little forced, sharpness was a little too
artificial to be pleasing (I set everything to auto on my very
print), the paper was (I printed with the sample paper pack that
came with the printer)… well… it was… very… INKJET.
POOF! ZAP!!
I didn’t know what hit me. After it was successfully diagnosed as
TYP-TID syndrome, I have no choice but to find the PP:FLQ (photo
paper: feel, look & quality) as an antidote for my ps7150… (gosh,
is this cheesy or what?!)

--
Fotografer
...like, a total himbo
------------------------------------
I'M GLAD SOME ELSE IS SEARCH FOR ANSWERS TOO.

THANKS FOR SHARING.
--
dzl
 
dzl wrote:

Obviously I was unaware of this thread--and your most detailed posts are absolutely wonderful! I do research, writing, helping people myself, etc--and your efforts are dream-like.

So I do understand that my thread " HP 7906 quizz.." may be offensive--but then again it clearly reveals my novice status.

What ever you could answer would be much appreciated. I hastened to add that, of course, you would advise that I use HP Plus, and HP inks would be best.

But what about the cost estimate per print--and this silly thing about 8.5 x11 vs 8 x 10--what do I do?

And is there a best supplier re costs?

Any help --without repeating your generous instruction already posted would be appreciated.

Deeply grateful,
dzl
(Please post your thoughts and comments under the Readers’ Response
thread below)
Okay, perhaps ‘Great’ is a little too pompous, but hey, it has got
to be a little more catchy than titles like “HP Photosmart 7150
Paper Review” or the down-right boring ones like “Paper
Compatibility to Tri-Colour No.57 & Photo No. 58 Cartridges”. ;)
But whatever the title may be, the quest is the same, and a serious
one – to discover that elusive paper with the look, feel, image
quality, and perhaps even longevity, of real silver-halide
photographs. Like many of you, I was hit by the
test-your-printer-till-it-drops (TYP-TID) syndrome soon after I
acquired and powered up my ps7150 in February this year.



I am sure you are familiar with the heavenly-feelings when the very
first print emerged from the printer. That glassy-eyed,
I-can’t-believe-my-eyes euphoric high was difficult to put in
words. However, when the pixy-dust settled somewhat (for me, it
happened the day after), I started to notice things I somehow
conveniently missed while I was so completely in the trance the day
before.
Colours were bright but a little forced, sharpness was a little too
artificial to be pleasing (I set everything to auto on my very
print), the paper was (I printed with the sample paper pack that
came with the printer)… well… it was… very… INKJET.
POOF! ZAP!!
I didn’t know what hit me. After it was successfully diagnosed as
TYP-TID syndrome, I have no choice but to find the PP:FLQ (photo
paper: feel, look & quality) as an antidote for my ps7150… (gosh,
is this cheesy or what?!)

--
Fotografer
...like, a total himbo
 
Use Epson Prem Luster on my Epson 960 and love the results. Absolutely beautiful color. For B&W, I only use Epson Prem Glossy which yields the smallest amount of color tint out of all the Epson papers I've tested.
 
Obviously I was unaware of this thread--and your most detailed
posts are absolutely wonderful! I do research, writing, helping
people myself, etc--and your efforts are dream-like.

So I do understand that my thread " HP 7906 quizz.." may be
offensive--but then again it clearly reveals my novice status.

What ever you could answer would be much appreciated. I hastened to
add that, of course, you would advise that I use HP Plus, and HP
inks would be best.

But what about the cost estimate per print--and this silly thing
about 8.5 x11 vs 8 x 10--what do I do?
dzl, sorry for the late reply. I actually won't recommend HP PPPP or their own brand of papers on the hp ps7xxx series photo printer. My review above should give you a clue that other (cheaper) third-party paper (and even rival printer manufacturer's paper - i.e. Epson) fared better in terms of image quality while retaining the same light-fastness estimate to the OEM HP inks.

There was some cost estimate threads I have created a while ago. Please check this link: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=4725246

I hope the pbase image base is still active (i.e. you can still see those images posted).

--
fotografer

...the great paper chase! (see http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )
 
Use Epson Prem Luster on my Epson 960 and love the results.
Absolutely beautiful color. For B&W, I only use Epson Prem Glossy
which yields the smallest amount of color tint out of all the Epson
papers I've tested.
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter
 
Use Epson Prem Luster on my Epson 960 and love the results.
Absolutely beautiful color. For B&W, I only use Epson Prem Glossy
which yields the smallest amount of color tint out of all the Epson
papers I've tested.
--
Tom

'The opportunity to catch your images and fulfill your visions is
today, not tomorrow.' (quote from Bjørn Rørslett)

--------------------------
pbase supporter
 
WoW,thank you very much for the time you have taken to post all this info... It has been book marked, thanks to you..... Victory
Ilford Galarie Classic Gloss Paper (Ilford GCGP), code: CAT 198
2273, 240gsm
Resin-polymer coating + polymer resin paper base
Price: cheap, average, expensive (Internet/High-Street retail price):
Reasonable High-Street price of £11.95 for a pack of 25, which is
only 48p per A4. Internet price is as low as £19.99 for 90 sheets,
which works out to be only 22p per A4 – excellent deal at

http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=777_2_208&sort=2a&&page=2&PHPSESSID=38c6b674a7f22c8d8c05649408c01dac .
Feel: thickness, weight, texture [max. 10]
8/10: Even though weight and thickness wise this paper is
essentially identical to the Pearl version (see below), the Gloss
version has a different print surface feel. Even compared with its
closest relative, the Ilford Printasia Photo Glossy Paper, the
print surface of this one feels ‘wetter’ by touch, and somewhat
‘over-done’. Still, it’s rather good at mimicking a wet-chemical
silver-halide commercial photo paper, just not as good as the
Printasia Glossy stock.
Handling/Display/Storage: paper pick-up, under glass/plastic sleeves stains? [Max. 10]
7/10: This paper poses no problem with the (infamous) U-path of the
new HP printers. But for full-proof paper pick-up (taking into
consideration printer-to-printer manufacturing variance), the
“two-papers-in-the-input tray” method is still recommended. What is
not good is that this paper has a high tendency to leave stain
marks on glass surface of a frame or under plastic album sleeves.
This is despite the prints undergoing more than 72 hours of drying
time. However, the stain marks are not caused by insufficient dry
time, it’s highly probable that the inherently ‘wet’ print surface
is the culprit.
Grain Management: obtrusive, or barely perceptible? [max. 20]
18.5/20: Grain management, while good when viewed on its own or
when compared with some resin-coated papers, is still inferior when
pitted against the best equivalent resin-coated print sample. To be
fair, however, grains on this paper are not obtrusive. It’s just
that Ilford has set itself so high a standard with its other papers
in this test, it’s hard to expect anything less from this one.
Colour Saturation: muted, ‘normal’, intense? [max. 20]
19.5/20: Like its other Ilford family members, it renders normal
saturation, which is to say it’s very good indeed.
B/W potential: neutrality/cast, Dmax [max. 10]
9/10: Having a whiter paper base than the Printasia series
generally, one would have presumed that this one should yield
relative less warm grey scales using the same ‘Colorfast’ paper
setting (known to give a warmish tone to pictures). This is indeed
so. Dmax is very good, but not atypical of a resin-coated (glossy)
inkjet paper.
Highlights & Shadows: details rendered in these 2 extremes [Max. 10]
9/10: Details in the highlight areas is a little ‘fuzzier’ than the
Printasia Glossy paper, but this is not significant enough to mark
it down. Shadow details perform similarly as with other
resin-coated Ilford papers (Classic Pearl, Printasia Satin and
Glossy).
Overall Image Quality: artifacts, bandings, layering, mid-tone details, ‘x-factor’ [max. 20]
18/20: The only Achilles’ heel of this paper is its stain marks,
and boy was it ‘good’ at this! They do not, however, affect the
actual print quality (i.e. no smudges or colour bleeding), but the
obvious stain marks remain like a scar when prints are subsequently
viewed even at a slight angle, and it can be a little distracting.
Total score & grade: [max. 100%]
89% (B+ Grade)
Drying Time: instant, quick, ‘normal’ (takes at least 6 hours)
“Normal” (though stain marks may give an impression that prints
never dry – which, of course, is not true).
Estimated Light-fastness: poor (less than 5 years); average (5-9.9 years); good (10-14.9 years); very good (15-24.9 years); excellent (> 25 years)
Excellent – 30.3 years natural light room illumination (275 lux, 8
hrs daily average) [ see
http://www.livick.com/method/inkjet/pg2d.htm ]
Water-resistance: poor (aqua phobia), average (could stand minor splashes), good (water resistant), very good (water-proof)
Poor.
Recommend Paper Setting:
HP Colorfast Photo Paper
Comments:
While it is easy to sing praises to the Classic Pearl Paper (see
below), the same does not apply to its Glossy counterpart. It’s sad
to know that, top image quality notwithstanding, something
seemingly unrelated to print quality could mark this paper down
from its otherwise A-grade performance. One just cannot think of a
practical way of storing the prints under plastic sleeves or
display under glass as they are. The only workaround, it seems, is
to invest on a fixative spray, but this can may prove frustrating
(i.e. extra work and money) to end-users. For your information:
though fixative spray increases the water-resistance of the paper,
it normally increases the paper’s tendency to ‘warp’ unevenly when
the weather changes.
Samples/enlarged segments:


--
Fotografer
...like, a total himbo
 
First and foremost, I'd like to commend you on the effort you put forth in reviewing the different paper types.

Going on your recomendation, I purchased the Ilford Gallerie Classic paper and have been quite pleased with the images printed on my HP Photsmart 7760.

However, I've been noticing considerable staining of the images on album covers. The images are quite tacky, almost as if there was a layer of non-absorbed ink on top of the paper. This type of performance is unacceptable by anyones standards.

Seeing that there is no "Colorfast Paper" option in the 7760 driver, I went with HP's recomendation that the "premium photo paper" option should be used when printing to Colorfast paper.

Located in Southern California, humidity level should not be an issue. I'm hoping you have a recomendation to help solve this annoying problem.

Thank you again!

Alex Gigliotti
AFGimages.com
 
It's unfortunate to know that Ilford Classic PEARL (you are referring to Pearl and not Gloss?) is staining the album sleeves. In my experience here in the UK, which can get rather wet in autumn/winter and humid in summer, the gloss version will be almost hopeless in all cases while the Pearl never stains.

But to address this problem somewhat, you may want to invest on a spray fixative on the existing photos you have. What you need to do is to but the fixative that is suitable to gloss or satin/matte media surfaces. Make sure you follow the instructions on the spray can. But generally, you would try spraying the pics while letting it 'stand' (not lie down on table) on something and then start pressing the spray nozzle a few inches away (not directly on the paper when you first depress the nozzle), then move onto the image area swiftly and as evenly as possible, covering the entire image area in the end. This will ensure even coating.

Let it dry or settle for at least 15 minutes (normally longer). It almost eliminates staining on the glossy media. I never used spray on the PEARL version, but I should think it works all the same.

Hope this helps.

--
fotografer

...the great paper chase! (see http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )
 
How long are you letting the prints cure before placing them in the album?I would reccommend drying for an hour unstacked and then stacck with a sheet of plain white paper between each print for at least a week before placing in an album sleeve or framing unmatted.
 
... I normally let the media (swellable or nanoporous) 'cure' out in the open for at least 24 hours.
How long are you letting the prints cure before placing them in the
album?I would reccommend drying for an hour unstacked and then
stacck with a sheet of plain white paper between each print for at
least a week before placing in an album sleeve or framing unmatted.
--
fotografer

...the great paper chase! (see http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )
 
I live in Poland (temperate climate) and from my experience

the Ilford Classic Pearl need 72 hours to completly dry (especially when there are on printout black areas) while Ilford Classic Gloss need about week to completly dry.
HP PPP Matte need more time then Ilford Classic Pearl.
Also HP PPP Gloss need more time then Ilford Classic Gloss.

Xenon
How long are you letting the prints cure before placing them in the
album?I would reccommend drying for an hour unstacked and then
stacck with a sheet of plain white paper between each print for at
least a week before placing in an album sleeve or framing unmatted.
--
fotografer
...the great paper chase! (see
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1003&message=5683956 )
 
Thank you so much for your hard work. It is very much appreciated. I was about to post a question about paper recommendations when I came across this thread.

Great Job !!!

GB
 

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