PowerShot S1 (not Pro1) looks like a winner!

jhsia · Feb 9, 2004

Agreed, it is more of a hassle to use an external memory card reader...but consider the advantages:

+ doesn't use any camera battery power

+ one driver for the memory card reader vs. multiple drivers for multiple cameras
+ choice of USB 2 (480 Mbps), Firewire 400 Mbps or Firewire 800

Whenever you connect your camera directly to the computer, there's a small risk that you'll accidentally knock it off the table...

A CompactFlash-only USB 2.0 reader is about $15 (less if you find them on sale with a rebate). A 6-in-1 reader (to handle SD, MS, etc.) is about $20. If you ever needed to buy a Canon USB cable (because you forgot/lost it), it might cost you $$.

Personally, I've never bent a pin on my CF cards.

RMac · Feb 9, 2004

I called CanonUSA about when the Pro1 would be available and they said it would be available in stores in April.

Ira Cohen said:
Phil Askey said:

Daniel Card said:

Member said:

If it's a bother to have to figure out how to take the CF Card

Click to expand...

How many people have had bent pins taking these things in and out?

Click to expand...

--
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com

Click to expand...

--
Ira

--
Sony DSC-V1, Canon G3, S50 , Olympus C750UZ, TCON-17, Minolta G500 & Canon i950

Mark B. · Feb 9, 2004

Daniel Card said:
Phil Askey said:

That certainly sounds like a reason not to get a camera.

(not)

Click to expand...

Why not? Some of us are not avid photographers that will go to
great lengths to get the picture you want. The majority of us want
convenience. It is more convenient to just plug in wires download,
then go take more pictures then to:
1. Figure out how to take the card out.
2. Figure out how to take the batteries out.
3. Plug the batteries and flash card into the right place.
4. Wait
5. Reverse the above procedure.
What happens when you visit relatives? More stuff to remember to
take. Also your computer desk is more cluttered.

Any people who like convenience think I'm making a mountain out of
a mole hill?

Yes. I take it you've never used a film camera - what an inconvenience that would be to figure out where to put the film.

Mark

DarenC · Feb 9, 2004

The Winner?!?
with 3MP sensor!
Uhh ...

I'm sorry.

Why not 4MP ?

Dan Deery · Feb 9, 2004

I got a bent pin in my 300D. I have always been careful how I insert the CF card and remove it. Don't know how I did it but Best Buy would not honor the warranty for a bent pin. Canon however, repaired it at no charge. Now I'm very reluctant to remove the card for any reason. I use the USB cable to download to the computer.

Dan

Ira Cohen said:
Phil Askey said:

Daniel Card said:

Member said:

If it's a bother to have to figure out how to take the CF Card

Click to expand...

How many people have had bent pins taking these things in and out?

Click to expand...

--
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com

Click to expand...

--
Ira

greentoe · Feb 9, 2004

On Canon's Powershot webpage there are links to all Powershot products, including the new ones announced yesterday. I don't have it off the top of my head, but if you start from the basic http://www.canon.com and follow the consumer products link you will eventually get to it.

-gt

mark1000 said:
Hi,

Not seen the sample images yet, can you please post the link.

thanks,

marko

nhf7170 · Feb 9, 2004

DarenC said:
The Winner?!?
with 3MP sensor!
Uhh ...

I'm sorry.

Why not 4MP ?

With a 4MP sensor, there would be too much image noise. The S1 uses a 1/2.7" CCD. If it used the larger 1/1.8" CCD, the lens system would have to be huge to accommodate the larger image area AND the Stabilization mechanism.

Lee Jay · Feb 9, 2004

Have you ever critically compared a 4MP image to a 3MP image after printing at least 8x10? They are so close to each other that other image parameters (white balance, sharpness, lens effects, noise, contrast etc.) outweigh the difference in sensor size.

A 4MP image has sqrt(4/3) = 15.4% more spacial resolution than a 3MP image. 15% is hardly anything. Look at a printed image from 42 inches away instead of 48 inches and see if you can truely see more resolution. It's there but it's not much.

I'd take 3 million high-quality pixels over 5 million low-quality pixels any time. Another member (professional) has posted that his best selling image came from his D30 (3MP). Many people claim that the 1D (4MP) produces images that are better than the 10D (6MP). Don't get too caught up in the mega-pixel wars. It matters, but other things matter more.

Lee Jay

DarenC said:
The Winner?!?
with 3MP sensor!
Uhh ...

I'm sorry.

Why not 4MP ?

Max Fun · Feb 9, 2004

For casual use and as a back up camera.

Besides, I think I would rather have a smaller, but cleaner image than a smidgen larger, but much noiser one (think FZ10).

nhf7170 said:
DarenC said:

The Winner?!?
with 3MP sensor!
Uhh ...

I'm sorry.

Why not 4MP ?

Click to expand...

With a 4MP sensor, there would be too much image noise. The S1
uses a 1/2.7" CCD. If it used the larger 1/1.8" CCD, the lens
system would have to be huge to accommodate the larger image area
AND the Stabilization mechanism.

--
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
http://www.pbase.com/supperman

DarenC · Feb 9, 2004

I'm not sure about much more noise and huge lens system (ok maybe FZ10) but that’s not that bad at all!

Miniaturisation is not the way to go as far as lens system is concern in respect to image quality.

Look here both with IS:
Panasonic FZ10 - 4.0 MP; 1/2.5 sensor;
Minolta A1 - 5.0 MP; 2/3 sensor!

nhf7170 said:
With a 4MP sensor, there would be too much image noise. The S1
uses a 1/2.7" CCD. If it used the larger 1/1.8" CCD, the lens
system would have to be huge to accommodate the larger image area
AND the Stabilization mechanism.

--
DarenC

mark1000 · Feb 9, 2004

DarenC · Feb 9, 2004

Hi,

Lee Jay said:
Have you ever critically compared a 4MP image to a 3MP image after
printing at least 8x10? They are so close to each other that other
image parameters (white balance, sharpness, lens effects, noise,
contrast etc.) outweigh the difference in sensor size.

Oh yes believe me I did. Most of my prints are A4. Here I need to mention I'm not in mega pixel race.

Lee Jay said:
I'd take 3 million high-quality pixels over 5 million low-quality
pixels any time.

I have no idea what you mean under bad or good pixels. According my understanding "good" pixels are physically bigger then "bad" pixels

.
That’s way I prefer bigger sensors 1/1.8 or 2/3 and 4.0 to 5.0 MP.

Lee Jay · Feb 9, 2004

Now we're in sync! Bigger sensors are definitely a good thing. By "good pixels" I meant, high-contrast, good dynamic-range, and low-noise. I also mean good lens without CA, lens-distortion, and with good contrast.

When the mega-pixel race ends (soon, I hope) the sensor-size race will begin. Remember camcorders? They started advertizing the sensor size right on the box. 1/4". 1/3". 3-CCD 1/4" etc. I'm hoping this becomes more important to consumers soon because the difference between a 1/3" sensor and a 1/4" sensor (examples only) is probably more than the difference between a 4MP sensor and a 3MP sensor.

Lee Jay

DarenC said:
DarenC said:

Have you ever critically compared a 4MP image to a 3MP image after
printing at least 8x10? They are so close to each other that other
image parameters (white balance, sharpness, lens effects, noise,
contrast etc.) outweigh the difference in sensor size.

Click to expand...

Oh yes believe me I did. Most of my prints are A4. Here I need to
mention I'm not in mega pixel race.

DarenC said:

I'd take 3 million high-quality pixels over 5 million low-quality
pixels any time.

Click to expand...

I have no idea what you mean under bad or good pixels. According my
understanding "good" pixels are physically bigger then "bad" pixels
.
That’s way I prefer bigger sensors 1/1.8 or 2/3 and 4.0 to 5.0 MP.

AO · Feb 9, 2004

DarenC said:
I'm not sure about much more noise and huge lens system (ok maybe
FZ10) but that’s not that bad at all!
Miniaturisation is not the way to go as far as lens system is
concern in respect to image quality.

Look here both with IS:
Panasonic FZ10 - 4.0 MP; 1/2.5 sensor;
Minolta A1 - 5.0 MP; 2/3 sensor!

The A1 stabilizer is in the body, not the lens. Plus, it has a shorter reach (200mm equivalent).

--
Tentative location of the unofficial FZ1 FAQ:

jsmith · Feb 9, 2004

4 or 5mp would have made this a much better seller. I for one would not invest in a 3mp camera at this stage of the game.

Max Fun said:
There's definitely a market for ultra-zooms, and currently on
Panasonic has an offering for a stabilized one. The S1 Pro might
only 3MP, but it's much smaller than the FZ10, has a swivel screen
and a winning movie mode!

If the CCD is the same as the one in the A70, then I think the
picture quality will be great!

I'll reserve my comments of the Pro 1 when we see more about it...

--
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
http://www.pbase.com/supperman

Jeremy · Feb 9, 2004

Maybe a bent pin isn't a problem. How about the door breaking off? That just happened to me. I know I'm not the only person who had to replace the door to their CF compartment. Good thing it only cost $8.87 from Canon (incl. tax & shipping). Oh, and I spent $6 at home depot for a jewelers screwdriver set.

Phil Askey said:
Daniel Card said:

Member said:

If it's a bother to have to figure out how to take the CF Card

Click to expand...

How many people have had bent pins taking these things in and out?

Click to expand...

--
Phil Askey
Editor / Owner, dpreview.com

--
Jeremy

Jeremy · Feb 9, 2004

Don't forget about the CardBus adapters for us laptop users. They are even faster than USB or Firewire!! See http://www.dpreview.com/news/0310/03102103delkincardbustest.asp

jhsia said:
Agreed, it is more of a hassle to use an external memory card
reader...but consider the advantages:

jhsia said:
+ choice of USB 2 (480 Mbps), Firewire 400 Mbps or Firewire 800

--
Jeremy

Sonyad · Feb 9, 2004

I guess you only use the starter card that comes with the camera. And once you've fill up that 16mb card you're done for the day until you get back home to download. Live a little. Be daring. Change cards. Use a reader.

Daniel Card said:
Daniel Card said:

If it's a bother to have to figure out how to take the CF Card

Click to expand...

How many people have had bent pins taking these things in and out?

Max Fun · Feb 9, 2004

If you know that larger pixels usually mean better quality, then shouldn't you be applauding Canon for not squeezing 4MP or more into a sensor that's effectively the same size? Look at the Olympus 750 UZ and the Panasonic FZ10. They all use 1/2.5 or 1/2.7 size sensors, but with more pixels than the Canon!

Currently only the FZ10 can be a credible competitor, but the noise and size really brought it down. That's why I think the S1 Pro is now the reigning champ for the UZ cameras!

DarenC said:
DarenC said:

Have you ever critically compared a 4MP image to a 3MP image after
printing at least 8x10? They are so close to each other that other
image parameters (white balance, sharpness, lens effects, noise,
contrast etc.) outweigh the difference in sensor size.

Click to expand...

Oh yes believe me I did. Most of my prints are A4. Here I need to
mention I'm not in mega pixel race.

DarenC said:

I'd take 3 million high-quality pixels over 5 million low-quality
pixels any time.

Click to expand...

I have no idea what you mean under bad or good pixels. According my
understanding "good" pixels are physically bigger then "bad" pixels
.
That’s way I prefer bigger sensors 1/1.8 or 2/3 and 4.0 to 5.0 MP.

--
The Secret to Life is... Calcium!!
http://max-fun.fotopic.net
http://www.pbase.com/supperman

DarenC · Feb 9, 2004

ljfinger said:
When the mega-pixel race ends (soon, I hope) the sensor-size race
will begin. Remember camcorders? They started advertizing the
sensor size right on the box. 1/4". 1/3". 3-CCD 1/4" etc. I'm
hoping this becomes more important to consumers soon because the
difference between a 1/3" sensor and a 1/4" sensor (examples only)
is probably more than the difference between a 4MP sensor and a 3MP
sensor.

Lee Jay

DarenC said:

Lee Jay said:

Have you ever critically compared a 4MP image to a 3MP image after
printing at least 8x10? They are so close to each other that other
image parameters (white balance, sharpness, lens effects, noise,
contrast etc.) outweigh the difference in sensor size.

Click to expand...

Oh yes believe me I did. Most of my prints are A4. Here I need to
mention I'm not in mega pixel race.

Lee Jay said:

I'd take 3 million high-quality pixels over 5 million low-quality
pixels any time.

Click to expand...

I have no idea what you mean under bad or good pixels. According my
understanding "good" pixels are physically bigger then "bad" pixels
.
That’s way I prefer bigger sensors 1/1.8 or 2/3 and 4.0 to 5.0 MP.

Click to expand...

--
DarenCRE

Lee Jay said:
Now we're in sync! Bigger sensors are definitely a good thing. By
"good pixels" I meant, high-contrast, good dynamic-range, and
low-noise.

In my opinion some of your criteria depend more on general hardware implementations and software solutions and not just sensor. That’s why me are here in CANON forum and not in Kyocera, Premier or any other

Lee Jay said:
I also mean good lens without CA, lens-distortion, and
with good contrast.

I do trust in Canon glass! Still S1 are not that extreme at all 38-380 (to be honest tele quite impressive but on the other side 38 wide

.

Lee Jay said:
When the mega-pixel race ends (soon, I hope) the sensor-size race
will begin. Remember camcorders? They started advertizing the
sensor size right on the box. 1/4". 1/3". 3-CCD 1/4" etc. I'm
hoping this becomes more important to consumers soon because the
difference between a 1/3" sensor and a 1/4" sensor (examples only)
is probably more than the difference between a 4MP sensor and a 3MP
sensor.

Fully agree here!

PowerShot S1 (not Pro1) looks like a winner!

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