Got my new T1!

srichard13 · Feb 8, 2004

Again let me say thanks for your excellent posts!

Quick startup and second picture time is very important to me as well as battery life so I am happy with your reports. Either you make $$$ for each T1 sold or you are a very helpful person who loves digicams. =)

Is there any reason to think that full resolution would consume more power than the 640x480? I am quite impressed with the battery life that you and someone else reported. I also am a fan of the sony infolithium batteries because they give you real information. My camcorder is a Sony and I really like knowing how much power I have left.

Waiting for the T1's to get in stock at the local Circuit City....

scott.

gho said:
gho said:

... and did not see you or your camera

Click to expand...

Didn't see you either...

gho said:

I was really in need of a digital camera with quick start-up times... I missed many great
shots of the kid because the camera wasn't ready in time.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that was one of my biggest gripes with cameras that have
extending lenses - slow startup times (the p10 was fast, but still
too slow).

The T1 won't disappoint you here. It powers on faster than Canon
DSLRs. Flip the front panel down, and its ready to shoot in about
1 second. Next shot less than a second later. You can get in two
shots before some DSLRs even power up!

gho said:

Also, I didn't see more than a couple of film cameras the entire day, it looks like the world has gone digital.

Click to expand...

Its getting more and more common to see digicams. When I first
started taking my kids to Disneyland, you hardly saw any digicams.
Now you see a few film SLRs, lots of disposables, and mostly
digicams.

Times are a changin'

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

Donald Cooper · Feb 8, 2004

You have great experience with digicams! So how would you compare it to the S400? The sizes are similar though the Canon doesn't have the tres cool internal lens. And the S400 gets good reviews on the image front which makes it a decent benchmark.

Thanks for any info.

DSC

gho said:
I use the camera primarily as a suppliment to my D100. So it
follows me everywhere (places where the D100 are impractical).

I've owned and used the p5, p10, f707, s400. And I've compared
this camera to samples from the web and reviews of the Pentax Optio
S/S4, Casio exslim, and IMHO, the T1 seems to do the best. I was
hesitant with the quality of the S/S4 even though its been out for
a while, and decided to wait a bit. The quality, to me, did not
seem significantly better than my p5 to justify buying it.
However, with the samples from the T1, its size factor and its
performance, I made the plunge, and I'm very pleased with the
results.

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

vincentnyc · Feb 8, 2004

i love my new T1 as well - 3 days old. however, please do look at my posting in this forum re: odd flash-related artifacts/reflections when i took some indoor shots. even when i avoided reflective objects in the photograph, there were still these odd, round shaped grayish/white amoeba-like images on a number of my indoor flash pictures.

i'm still experimenting, but they worry me. especially after i took pains to experiment with pics without reflective objects in the picture.

any advice anyone? do you think it is a defect in the design or this particular unit? another forum member in England has similar issues and he sent me a picture he took.

thanks!

Donald Cooper said:
Thanks for any info.

DSC

gho said:

I use the camera primarily as a suppliment to my D100. So it
follows me everywhere (places where the D100 are impractical).

I've owned and used the p5, p10, f707, s400. And I've compared
this camera to samples from the web and reviews of the Pentax Optio
S/S4, Casio exslim, and IMHO, the T1 seems to do the best. I was
hesitant with the quality of the S/S4 even though its been out for
a while, and decided to wait a bit. The quality, to me, did not
seem significantly better than my p5 to justify buying it.
However, with the samples from the T1, its size factor and its
performance, I made the plunge, and I'm very pleased with the
results.

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

Click to expand...

ometofu · Feb 8, 2004

especially in fine mode... man, the only issue i have now is backup strategy for all these 1/g Gb movie that I'm going to take. If you don't buy it for pictures, buy it for DVD quality movie!!!

gho said:
Took a few pics and here is my initial impressions.

Pros:
1) Its SMALL!
2) Its FAST - startup time about a sec, pic to pic time about a
sec. Focus time in less than a sec. Speed is comprable to the
F7x7, if not faster!
3) Its focus is ACCURATE! Almost no OOF images - a problem I had
with the P5 and the P10.
4) macro is excellent.
5) LCD is 100% visable in DIRECT sunlight - It uses that
trans-relective technology that PDAs use. You can even turn off
the backlight indoors and still see the image clearly.

Cons:
1) default sharpening is over-sharpened (leading to very noisy
images). I set image to low and sharpen in PS with much better
results. With this method, noise is comprable, to that of the P
series.
2) Flash is weak, but will work fine for most snapshots.
3) You will get red-eye in with the flash.

Here is a sample I took: its full sized, low sharpening, and
sharpened in PS with the flash. The flash illuminates the subject
fine, there is noticable dropoff in the background, but its very
good compared to the P series.

For the full sized image:
http://www.pbase.com/image/25768513

Definately a keeper for me! Questions? Comments? Requests?

I'll be happy to help.

Gregory
--
http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

nonamebrand · Feb 8, 2004

Here are the differences which I posted couple weeks ago in different forum...

They are all above 1mb. Purple flower is over 2mb.

1. 0.5mm led in its casing. Hand held.
http://web.augsburg.edu/~leem/pic/t1/05mm_led.JPG

2. 0.5mm led pencil. Desk leverage.
http://web.augsburg.edu/~leem/pic/t1/05mm_led_pencil.JPG

3. Purple flower. Dark room, macro. hand held.
http://web.augsburg.edu/~leem/pic/t1/purple.JPG

4. Redish flower. Dark room, macro. hand held.
http://web.augsburg.edu/~leem/pic/t1/redish.JPG

sakura said:
What's the difference between them? With regards to picture quality
and ideal use?

gho · Feb 8, 2004

srichard13 said:
Again let me say thanks for your excellent posts!

You're very welcome. I'm glad you found this helpful.

srichard13 said:
Quick startup and second picture time is very important to me as
well as battery life so I am happy with your reports. Either you
make $$$ for each T1 sold or you are a very helpful person who
loves digicams. =)

Yup, I guess I'm just a gadget freak. I wish I made money off each T1 sold

srichard13 said:
Is there any reason to think that full resolution would consume
more power than the 640x480?

Yes, 5mp will consume more battery power for a couple of reasons: more data to for the processor to work with, more data to write to the memory card (which consumes power when being written to or read from). This said, however, the difference, in my experience would probably be minor. I shot VGA mode with my P5 and at full rez, and battery consumption was pretty similar.

srichard13 said:
I also am a fan of the sony infolithium batteries because they give you real information.

One of the best in the industry, IMHO.

srichard13 said:
My camcorder is a Sony and I really like knowing how much power I have left.

I really like this feature too. I have 4 Sony camcorders (one really old 8mm, 1 miniDV, 1 newer 8mm, and 1 hi8), and my newest three also use the lithium ion batteries, and are fairly accurate and last pretty long. The oldest one (now dead) used NiCD.

srichard13 said:
Waiting for the T1's to get in stock at the local Circuit City....

Got mine from sonystyle.com (had bad experiences with CC - price matching, returns/exhcnages so many times, I no longer do business with them, no matter how good the deal). Good luck with your T1. Hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine.

Feel free to ask if you have more questions.

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

nonamebrand · Feb 8, 2004

Well... Even though movies are 640 X 480 + 160 X 120, you have to have pro duo for 30fps in 640 X 480. I'm pretty sure they are working on a bigger pro duo memory, which is bigger than 512mb (little over 6min of video with 30fps, or over 22 minutes in 16fps, or over 2 hours in 160x120 16fps), but I'm sure it'll also be expensive as another DSC-T1... However, at that point I'll be purchasing a Digital Video Cam

ometofu said:
especially in fine mode... man, the only issue i have now is backup
strategy for all these 1/g Gb movie that I'm going to take. If you
don't buy it for pictures, buy it for DVD quality movie!!!

nonamebrand · Feb 8, 2004

I must say, I do enjoy the oooo's and ahhhh's or "that's a camera?!" from people. Now, if I can teach some of these people to get their finger prints away from the LCD, i would be happy =P. Anyone know a good LCD protector? For case I've been using my exilim camera case (I returned the Z4U and kept the casae =P but I've read on some T1 posts, that you can use your Ipod cases too) I can't seem to stop playing with the camera. I'm definately using this camera to the fullest... However, I'm waiting for some warmer weather, so I can test it out more in the outside. I'm getting tired of the snowy pictures =P.

One thing I hate about this camera is that takes awhile to charge to the fullest.

gho · Feb 8, 2004

Member said:
So how would you compare it to the S400?

For me I prefer the T1 (obviously), in fact, I prefer the p10 over the s400. The s400 has very high quality low-noise images, but the colors seem a bit saturated and warm (although this can be corrected with software, so its not a big deal) for my tastes. The main issue I had with the s400 was the focusing. It doesn't seem to focus as quickly and accurately as the p10 (or the T1, which focuses even better than the p10).

I did a somewhat unscientific test of the p10 and the s400's focusing systems. What I did was I held the p10 in my left hand and the s400 in my right hand (both set for default focusing modes) and shot pics of my erratically running toddler (pressed the shutter on both simultaneously) - my main subject is my toddler, so I thought this would be a fair test for me. I then took a series of shots with the cameras switched (s400 in my left hand and p10 in my right).

The results after carefully evaulting 200 or so pics from each camera was that the focus on the p10 produced significantly more in-focus images than the s400. The p10 consistently fired off shots faster then the s400 (focusing was much faster in the p10) in almost every shot.

Since toddlers are my main subject, I decided to go with the p10 (which I sold in anticipation of the T1).

Member said:
The sizes are similar though the Canon doesn't have
the tres cool internal lens. And the S400 gets good reviews on the
image front which makes it a decent benchmark.

If you are shooting mostly static objects, the s400 peforms amicably and you can't really go wrong with it. It is a very good camera, and produces very good results.

I dunno if this helps any. I guess my advice would be to go with the one you like better overall. I believe they are both very good cameras, and that you can't really go wrong with either.

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

gho · Feb 8, 2004

nonamebrand said:
I must say, I do enjoy the oooo's and ahhhh's or "that's a
camera?!" from people.

You get that? Nobody's seemed to notice mine (but I prefer to keep it that way).

nonamebrand said:
Anyone know a good LCD protector?

I've heard of people using those PDA screen protectors (I use one on my clie - but you write on the screen of a PDA so I think its necessary). On the camera, though, I haven't put one on, and I don't think I will. I will make your screen more difficult to see (it does on my PDA) and I don't think its really necessary if you are somewhat careful with it.

nonamebrand said:
I've read on some T1 posts, that you can use your Ipod cases too

I'll have to look into that. It sounds like a good idea.

nonamebrand said:
I can't seem to stop playing with the camera. I'm definately using
this camera to the fullest... However, I'm waiting for some warmer
weather, so I can test it out more in the outside. I'm getting
tired of the snowy pictures =P.

Mee too! I'll have to see about that movie mode when I get my MS pro. I wouldn't expect it to be as good as my miniDV, but it sounds very interesting (I don't carry my miniDV everywhere I go)

nonamebrand said:
One thing I hate about this camera is that takes awhile to charge
to the fullest.

I ordered a second battery. You can also get the external charger for that, that way you will always have a charged battery on hand and battery charging time becomes moot.

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

nonamebrand · Feb 8, 2004

Well... I'm not sure if you have looked in to MPEG 2, 4 hadrive based video cam, which are small and innnterrresting. I'm very intrigued by these toys and waiting to get better. As of now few of them are out there that I know of. panasonic and samsung are couple of the big names who makes it. Towards the highend you have to pay over a grand... but at the price you could even go buy the canon XL series... but that's more pro and this is more fun and 10 times smaller.

gho said:
gho said:

I can't seem to stop playing with the camera. I'm definately using
this camera to the fullest... However, I'm waiting for some warmer
weather, so I can test it out more in the outside. I'm getting
tired of the snowy pictures =P.

Click to expand...

Mee too! I'll have to see about that movie mode when I get my MS
pro. I wouldn't expect it to be as good as my miniDV, but it
sounds very interesting (I don't carry my miniDV everywhere I go)

gho said:
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

Um... dumb and quick question, but what's the limit of space in imagestation?

gho · Feb 8, 2004

vincentnyc said:
i love my new T1 as well - 3 days old. however, please do look at
my posting in this forum re: odd flash-related
artifacts/reflections when i took some indoor shots. even when i
avoided reflective objects in the photograph, there were still
these odd, round shaped grayish/white amoeba-like images on a
number of my indoor flash pictures.

I'd have to agree with others, the fact that they are translucent indicates that it is a dust particle that is illuminated by the flash. I haven't noticed this problem with my camera, but it could be an issue, like the others have stated with the flash being in such close proximity to the lense. I've taken pics with very similar lighting but have not had this issue. The fact that they show up in random places indicates that its not anything on the camera itself.

Is your place particuarlly dusty? Is the air somewhat stagnant (motionless).

vincentnyc said:
any advice anyone? do you think it is a defect in the design or
this particular unit? another forum member in England has similar
issues and he sent me a picture he took.

Try using a higher ISO, such as ISO400, which will reduce the amount of flash output, and not illuminate dust as much. Also you may position yourself so that there is a slight breeze so that the dust particles don't remain suspended too long (open a window or something).

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

gho · Feb 8, 2004

nonamebrand said:
Well... I'm not sure if you have looked in to MPEG 2, 4 hadrive
based video cam, which are small and innnterrresting. I'm very
intrigued by these toys and waiting to get better. As of now few
of them are out there that I know of. panasonic and samsung are
couple of the big names who makes it. Towards the highend you
have to pay over a grand... but at the price you could even go buy
the canon XL series... but that's more pro and this is more fun and
10 times smaller.

Sounds interesting. I wish I were better at taking video though. Soooo much work involved in getting good results. My miniDV does great though - got firewire and I can edit in the computer.

nonamebrand said:
Um... dumb and quick question, but what's the limit of space in imagestation?

None... Infinite... no limit (this is why I use it).

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

gho · Feb 8, 2004

Those are some really impressive shots. I'll have to try more.

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

sunilc · Feb 9, 2004

gho said:
Took a few pics and here is my initial impressions.

Pros:
1) Its SMALL!
2) Its FAST - startup time about a sec, pic to pic time about a
sec. Focus time in less than a sec. Speed is comprable to the
F7x7, if not faster!
3) Its focus is ACCURATE! Almost no OOF images - a problem I had
with the P5 and the P10.
4) macro is excellent.
5) LCD is 100% visable in DIRECT sunlight - It uses that
trans-relective technology that PDAs use. You can even turn off
the backlight indoors and still see the image clearly.

Cons:
1) default sharpening is over-sharpened (leading to very noisy
images). I set image to low and sharpen in PS with much better
results. With this method, noise is comprable, to that of the P
series.
2) Flash is weak, but will work fine for most snapshots.
3) You will get red-eye in with the flash.

Here is a sample I took: its full sized, low sharpening, and
sharpened in PS with the flash. The flash illuminates the subject
fine, there is noticable dropoff in the background, but its very
good compared to the P series.

For the full sized image:
http://www.pbase.com/image/25768513

Definately a keeper for me! Questions? Comments? Requests?

I'll be happy to help.

Gregory
--
http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

Gregory, do you just use the standard sharpen filter from the filter menu or sharpen more or sharpen edges, or something else!? Do you have any examples of a shot taken with the sharpening set to normal compared to the same shot taken with sharpening set to (-) and then sharpened in photoshop? Thanks!

Sunil

sakura · Feb 9, 2004

What settings did you use in this pic? ISO? Metering? Exposure? Focus?

sakura · Feb 9, 2004

Were these taken from the T1? They're really good!

Donald Cooper · Feb 9, 2004

Gregory,

This helps a lot actually. I'd want this cam for when I just couldn't get to the real one -- like when you're on a zodiak and the spray is all over you and you don't have much time to mess with your camera bag -- you just want to reach into your pocket and take a snap of the landing.

So AF and startup times are important to me, and the subjects would probably not be static, relatively speaking. Much thanks for your time.

DSC

gho said:
gho said:

So how would you compare it to the S400?

Click to expand...

For me I prefer the T1 (obviously), in fact, I prefer the p10 over
the s400. The s400 has very high quality low-noise images, but the
colors seem a bit saturated and warm (although this can be
corrected with software, so its not a big deal) for my tastes. The
main issue I had with the s400 was the focusing. It doesn't seem
to focus as quickly and accurately as the p10 (or the T1, which
focuses even better than the p10).

I did a somewhat unscientific test of the p10 and the s400's
focusing systems. What I did was I held the p10 in my left hand
and the s400 in my right hand (both set for default focusing modes)
and shot pics of my erratically running toddler (pressed the
shutter on both simultaneously) - my main subject is my toddler, so
I thought this would be a fair test for me. I then took a series
of shots with the cameras switched (s400 in my left hand and p10 in
my right).

The results after carefully evaulting 200 or so pics from each
camera was that the focus on the p10 produced significantly more
in-focus images than the s400. The p10 consistently fired off
shots faster then the s400 (focusing was much faster in the p10) in
almost every shot.

Since toddlers are my main subject, I decided to go with the p10
(which I sold in anticipation of the T1).

gho said:

The sizes are similar though the Canon doesn't have
the tres cool internal lens. And the S400 gets good reviews on the
image front which makes it a decent benchmark.

Click to expand...

If you are shooting mostly static objects, the s400 peforms
amicably and you can't really go wrong with it. It is a very good
camera, and produces very good results.

I dunno if this helps any. I guess my advice would be to go with
the one you like better overall. I believe they are both very good
cameras, and that you can't really go wrong with either.

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

gho · Feb 9, 2004

sunilc said:
Gregory, do you just use the standard sharpen filter from the
filter menu or sharpen more or sharpen edges, or something else!?

I use USM.

sunilc said:
Do you have any examples of a shot taken with the sharpening set to
normal compared to the same shot taken with sharpening set to (-)
and then sharpened in photoshop? Thanks!

Okay, I did a test shot and made up a quick comparison for you. Both shots were taken immediately after each other, program mode with flash, one with sharpening set to normal, and the other with sharpening set to low. I sharpened the "low" photo using photoshop's unsharp mask, and left the "normal" as is. No other processing was done, and both are 100% crops.

I must say, that the difference is somewhat minor. I've highlighted areas of interest for you. You will notice less edge noise using PS USM (red arrows) compared to the camera default. Look at the around the edges of the eyes, and on the black edges of the bib. Also there is less noise in the whites of the eyes. That said, the camera seems to do very well in its own right.

Here is the sharpening comparison:

I also used Neat Image to clean up some noise (I used only very light noise reduction). Notice the cheek is smoother with less noise, and the noise under the chin also virtually eliminated. Neat image has a trial version available for download on their site, along with T1 noise profiles. You can find it at http://www.neatimage.com

Here is the noise reduction comparison:

I must say, that I'm no expert at this stuff, and I'm still learning the intricacies of sharpening and noise reduction, and I only just got Neat Image.

Let me know if you would like me to use a differnt subject (my primary subject is my kids, hence, the test shot). Hope you find these helpful. Comments? Questions?

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

gho · Feb 9, 2004

sakura said:
What settings did you use in this pic? ISO? Metering? Exposure?
Focus?

Which pic were you refering to? I normally shoot program mode ISO100, multi metering (default), 0 EV compensation & spot focusing. If the exposure is too dark, I bump the ISO a bit. But I think most of my shots I've posted were ISO100. The pic from the convention center was using the "moon-man" mode, not the "program" mode.

--
Gregory

http://www.imagestation.com/members/ximina
You need to create an account, but its free!

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