Point $ Shoot Pirates

easygoing is good,
watching the album 15 years later and enjoying it is good too
Yes, unless it becomes a constant reminder of an unpleasant
confrontation between the photographer and others.
99% of the time it will be:

".... a constant reminder of an unpleasant confrontation between the BRIDE and other guests pestering her."

Too many brides complain that "uncle Harry pestered me all day long", or "we didn't have much time to dance, 'cos uncle Harry wanted to take more & more pics...."

If you've EVER done weddings on a pro basis you'll have noticed it a number of times.

A good pro will 1) discuss the matter with the bride BEFORE the wedding; & 2) take the matter to the bride if guests start pestering her or himself.

Regards,
--
JF
 
that's an extreme Characterization, but I can easily reply that a professional (any field) knows how to handle extreme situations simply because of the experience: so, let's don't worry about that: we know what to do.
 
Of particular frustration were the parents that stood behind me and
took their own shots of the team photo session that I was hired to
do by the league, I had given them a rock bottom price for the
league's pictures in order to have rights to take orders from the
parents. I felt those particular point and shoot pirates had their
hands in my pocket book.
Yep. I think this is simply a "fact of life" and photographers will have to change their pricing to reflect this.

With cheap scanning available to all....let alone folks with their own cameras....the business model of "lowball the event fee and get the money on the prints" is not adequate.

I'm a parent and I have kids in sports and I take lots of pictures of them an d the team. I'd probably be one of those taking my own picts at "team photo day" too.

The LEAGUE made an agreement with you, not me -- nor did the league make any agreement with me.

Lee
 
Huh? This guy sounded like the RIGHT kind of "family photog". Did NOT try and take the shots the pro was taking --- concentrated on being where the pro WASN'T.

You think pro's don't talk to "non-pro's" about camera equipment? Well....maybe YOU are just too smart and elevated to think you could learn from anyone else.

I have friends who are pro's and when it comes to digital they DID wonder about my equipment and still kibitz with me regarding this relatively new part of photography.

But hey....just because they run their own family photo business...one they grew up with and had handed down to them by their father....maybe they just aren't as "professional" as you who has graced the "non-professional" poster with ---gasp--- and actual reply for you.
the pro90is was my first digital, but I couldn't possibly take it
with me at work bacause I was shooting with 2 bronica sqa (6x6)
back then.
this is the reason why amateurs still have hard time to understand
the philosophy of the picture-taking-for-a-living people.
They believe that for us it's more like a game and we can get all
excited like they do and playing cat and mouse with one of you.
It's a job, you don't really have to compete with us: he made your
day watching your TV show out of that pro70?
fine.
happy now?
and the best part is that you had the urge to come up here and tell
us about it.

he had to go to the next wedding and deal with somebody else like
you..my friend, it happens ALL THE TIME..every single event we go
there is somebody like you.
for us it's better to smile otherwise you guys can really harm our
workflow. it doesn't mean that we get excited when we see a new
cigarette lighter sized camera with a TV connection. He was trying
to be polite with you.

I relally love the part when you p&s people supposed to give him
advices on poses, as I understand he already did a dozen of
weddings just to your family, and you really think that he needed
any help from you guys? no, really.. do you honestly believe so?
after 10 weddings you pretty much know all the poses, the metering,
the lighting conditions and the reaction of your camera..trust me,
he didn't need your help.

I know that I said that I wanted to talk to other pros only about
this, but ehy...
sorry, I couldn't resist.
 
Don't waste your breath. You've encountered the type who's too insecure in his own work to tolerate that anyone is getting pictures he isn't.

See....your good work...getting the pictures the pro doesn't....while adding immensely to the joy of your relative....devalues the overall worth of what the pro is providing.

The more and better your photos are -- the less valuable what he is selling is....or that's the way some view it.

I simply think the time of "make your money on print orders" is going away. Because folks like you (and me too) are becoming more numerous.

Lee
Yes I agree, there were some P&S there that did it. I didn't. I
never approached him, I never talked to him, until he came up to
me. I think you anger toward the P&S has somehow been directed to
me. If he hadn't approached me when he was leaving, we would have
never crossed paths, other than the group photo I was in. How can
that be "getting in his way?"

Did other people get in his way? Yes. Did I? NO.

OGD
the "The art of friendliness" goes both ways. Now that I have your
permission to get my shots I really feel better. I'll explain the
reason why I don't believe that your intentions are truly friendly:
if you really care about our business, being all worried about us
getting more business from friends & family, why don't you leave us
doing our job in peace? don't you know that getting in the way can
put our work in jeopardy? showing a little respect would be a nice
way to demonstrate your good intentions. Why don't you start doing
it right at the very next wedding you'll attend as a guest. show
us how much you care.. it would be very much appreciated.
well, now you know what to do to be credible on what you say here.

but if you say one thing and you do another..hmmm you're not so
friedly then, and you posting friendly toughts here would be
pointless, for both of us in this case.

this coucludes my friendly conversation with P&S and photo
enthusiasts on weddings.
 
LeeBase,
that's the beauty of life.

you do whatever you like until you find somebody like me who'll make clear to you that he doesn't like it.

that can happen too, easily in my case

it can also happen that I'll decide to come over where you work and offer my time for less money that you make or actually for free.
In that case I'd guess that you will be the one unhappy about it.

I take my job seriously, just like you take yours seriously as well (I'm sure)
Mark
 
Joe,
I wasn't talking to you, and I didn't ask for your opinion.
Did you even read the thread?

Do you think ALL those who commented on his insulting posts/comments are imagining things?
HA!!
Enough questioning and reasoning with you.
Seems to me your perspective is as distorted as the person I was replying to.

Like him you have obviously have no social skills whatsoever and posses an extremely abrasive personality, and only listen when communicated to in kind.
No, ..I wouldn't expect you to recognize that.
I want to play the devil's advocate & hope that your ill-mannered
attitude is due to the fact that you are relatively new to these
forums, & that you lack adquate communication skills. I won't play
for long, though.
I really don't care what you want to play (here or anywhere else), or to see demonstrations of your severely lacking psychic abilities.

Regarding that "...I won't play for long..",

Cute!
:)

I'm not sure exactly what you meant by that, but if that was meant to be a threat of some sort... you really want to be 'very' careful about biting off more than you can chew.

--------
You've got a serious inferiority complex, you should see someone
about that...really!
What cheek. So do you, to feel you have to respond to a matter that
does not concern you at all: you are not a pro!
Keep in mind those weddings you're talking about are organized
for/and with the friends & family in mind, not you.
So? Who said the contrary? No pro here ever even IMPLIED that s/he
expects to take over the wedding & bug the couple. It is the P&S
crowd, the uncle Harry's, who pester the B&G & ruin their day.
You are the outsider who's presence is being 'tolerated'.
This sentence must really come from a sick mind; or else you did
not think before you speak. It doesn't make sense at all. Here's
why: If that's your attitude to having a pro at your wedding, you
shouldn't get a pro in the first place! Get a realtive/friend to
shoot some snaps.

Where do statements like these come from? I can tell you with
precision: 1) from sour grapes (that means you're probably a peat
at other people's weddings, a pesky "Uncle Harry")

2) & or you or your friend/relative's wedding could not afford the
pro they wanted (or wanted a free lunch). Another case of sour
grapes.

Two things are is certain;
1: You don't make a lot of money (and therefore aren't very
successful) in this business.
Oh, so you're a clairvoyant as well; & an insolent one at that. You
should be working with the FBI.
2: With your foul attitude, you won't be in this business for very
long.
How can you make any comment on MarkLe's attitude DURING WEDDINGS
if you've never seen him work? He's responding to irate,
irrational, egoistic Uncle Harry's here. You know, the ones that
egoistically turn a kind invitation to a friend's wedding into a
press conference.
Not meaning to be petty but, are you from an English speaking
country? if so did you graduate high school?
...just trying to understand the grammar and spelling problems
evident in all your posts, ...from a 'professional' perspective.
What has that got to do with Mark Le's professionalism? One of
Europe's top wedding pros is severely dyslexic. Does that make him
any less professional?

You should apologise for making an offensive statement like that.
It's called "flaming" in the posting rules.

I want to play the devil's advocate & hope that your ill-mannered
attitude is due to the fact that you are relatively new to these
forums, & that you lack adquate communication skills. I won't play
for long, though.

--
JF
 
I'm pretty blown away by one of the responses to your post, sheesh, what an arrogant dweeb!

I'm going to presume your daughter's a pretty sharp cookie. I'm a guy and I'll tell you, the memory of my wedding day means a HECK of a lot more than the pictures, and my wife feels totally the same way. It was a BLAST. I actually had a ball at my own wedding, AND got great pix. The "pro" wedding photographer cost a fortune and gave us emotonless doo doo, the "other" photographer, (my friend) who is a semi-pro (shoots billiard tournaments and had never shot a wedding) gave us beautiful shots, as a GIFT and... they captured the JOY of the party.

The "pro" who "knows how to capture the day" gave us hallmark card moments, nothing like the actual emotion of the day. My friend's pictures take us back to the real memory of the joy of that great experience.

Unless you have seen your daughter make serious errors in judgement before, don't listen to these snobs and let her do her day the way she wants to.

Wow! The arrogance of some of you guys!

yer pal™,
Scooter
My daughter is getting married in the fall. She met with several
photographers and chose the one she did because, in her words "He
seemed very easygoing. I don't want some cranky person ruining my
day. This guy seems like he'll help make the day fun."

I think her outlook was that she rather enjoy her day and get
decent photos than have a lousy wedding and get great photos.

Diane
 
LeeBase,
that's the beauty of life.
you do whatever you like until you find somebody like me who'll
make clear to you that he doesn't like it.

that can happen too, easily in my case

it can also happen that I'll decide to come over where you work and
offer my time for less money that you make or actually for free.
In that case I'd guess that you will be the one unhappy about it.

I take my job seriously, just like you take yours seriously as well
Exactly --- but "things change". You are experience what is called a "disruptive technology". You either adjust or you become economic roadkill.

There are folks offering to do my job for less money -- it's called "outsourcing". And I can whine and complain all I want -- or I can adjust.

So...what are you going to do besides display your displeasure?

Lee
 
I think you handled the situation well. It's one thing for someone to use their own equipment, it's quite another for them to presume to use yours.

I might have added to him "Uncle Henry...your neice would probably get a lot more from your pictures if you took different ones that what she's PAYING me to take."

I agree with the technique of going to the bride and letting her (or the groom) decide how to deal with "Uncle Henry".

I wouldn't have even pulled him aside myself -- let one of the family explain the "facts of life" to Uncle Henry.

Lee
At my own wedding our photographer was awesome. She would set up
the picture and after she had taken her shots she let our family
and guests take a few snaps. Then she would go on to her next shot.
After awhile the guests get tired and die down anyways.

Doing this left us with a lot of positive comments for her. I think
you have to expect this at a wedding and accomadate for them. These
are all special people to the bride and groom and hey, it's there
day not yours.
Sure Justin.

What I (as a pro) would NOT do is accomodate cheeky amateurs to the
camera settings I'm using, etc.

Example: at a wedding recently, the "uncle harry" of the day had an
identical high end DSLR to mine. I was shooting with studio lights,
witha 1m softbox, barndoors, the whole hog.

He asked if he may take a picture. As I always do, I smiled & said
"of course", while switching OFF my studio lights.

The guy almost went beserk.... but in a very soft & astute manner.
He asked me why i had switched off the lights, what aperture I was
using.

What would you have done?

I pretended to look the other way, looking for the head waiter;
when he repeated his request in a more insisting fashion.

Again: Forget your client perspective, imagine you were a pro for a
moment.......What would you do?

Remember; I have taken the trouble & time (years) to learn my
skills & develop my art; i had taken the trouble to bring & set up
MY lights....

......anyway: when I again pretended I was looking the other way,
this guy went up to my lights & tried to switch them on. My gosh,
what cheek.

"please don't touch my lights", I said. I gently but FIRMLY held
his arm, for my request fell on deaf ears.

I proceeded to tear down my setup, explaining to the bride that we
were continuing the session in another room. Which I did.

Needless to say, the guy followed. I did the professional thing. I
took the matter to the bride. I explained that I found no objection
to people shooting pictures, but only after we were ready & NOT
with my equipment.

thank goodness the bride put the guy in place with a mildly
sarcastic jibe ("Please let me enjoy my wedding, Uncle Harry")

NOW comes the important part of my post. many pros will stop there.
WRONG!

After the session i found Uncle Harry, started up a conversation on
equipment.....then dropped the bomb.

These "uncle Harry"s don't realise that they are harassing the
bride more than anything else. I diplomatically explained that this
is THEIR day, & that "I" (ie "he") did not want to ruin it by
taking a long time, or ranting over photo technique in front of the
couple.

I made sure I said all this in front of other guests; looking at
them while speaking to get their consensus. I turned it into a fake
"apology" on my part, so that he accepted my words.

Before he could delve iagain into what settings I used, etc.; I
excused myself 'cos I was "needed" elsewhere.

the guy did not hassle the couple (or me) anymore, not even during
the cake.

Hope this helps.

--
JF
 
Nice technique.....

Lee
I mentioned this on a previous post about a year ago...I was at a
wedding being shot by a pretty famous Canadian Pro...Heres how he
kept the pirates at bay...and how I do now when shooting posed
group photos.

1 4 foot piece of Plastic pipe 1.5 inch diameter
1 Flash light (normal house hold style
1 Trailer Light Lens Red in color round pointy style a la cadillac
from 60's most automotive parts stores carry them for about a
buck.

Mount the flashlight on the plastic pipe...zap straps...black duct
tape works, glue the red light lens on the top of the flashlight...

Ask the bride to explain to guests.... when the red light is
on....please do not use your camera..

I shoot hundreds of team photos with this method... no more
grief...no more over exposures...no more...strobe false flashes...

My assistant holds the pole...light is on...soon as I finished
shooting she clicks it off... BANG instant barage of point & shoot
flashes...

Peace
Eddy
 
LeeBase
I told you what I am gonna do: I whine, complain and also get more monopods.

it's not the end of the world, ya know... I can use monopods to hold cameras too.. so, it won't be a complete waste of money after all.
 
:)

Kisses hugs and peace all around

Lee
LeeBase
I told you what I am gonna do: I whine, complain and also get more
monopods.

it's not the end of the world, ya know... I can use monopods to
hold cameras too.. so, it won't be a complete waste of money after
all.
 
Scooter,
with all due respect (and I do appreciate your opinions about cameras)

unless you're a working wedding photographer I couldn't care less about who you are with .
In this particular thread I mean.

And also I care very very little if you (let's say) will find me arrogant at work.
The way I do my job shouldn't bother you. And if it does what can I do?
 
I don't like kisses from another guy (I'm used to chick-kiss my female models before a photoshooting for good luck, but never done to a male model..dunno why)

I'll take it as a sign of friendship that I'm glad to return back to you.
 
The LEAGUE made an agreement with you, not me -- nor did the league
make any agreement with me.
A good point Lee,

Perhaps the answer is back at that agreement with the league, they sold me the rights to exclusive photography and they didn't deliver. Logistically there may have been no way that they could have, but those are issues that need to be addressed during the contract negotiations, and should be ironed out long before the day of the shoot.

Thanks for your view point,

BCC
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top