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pbleic said:
These are the works of one of our greatest living photographers -
William Eggleston. He is a photo essayist of American life. They
are more likely to be found in a major art museum than in a gallery.

I post these, because I am sure that many in this forum will have
come to a different conclusion having looked at the photos without
this information. Many of us are (and I will include myself) are
quick to comment on photos posted in this forum, and make
suggestions about composition, white balance, color saturation,
etc. Perhaps we are more oriented towards a conventional view of
photography and art. I know that looking at Eggleston's work, and
that of others like Atget, etc. has helped me to expand my thinking
about what a great photograph is.

Hope you don't mind me sharing. Sorry if you were fooled.

Paul

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Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
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Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
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http://www.malaquias.net/en/joseluis/
 
Isn't that people don't like the photos - they aren't meant to be beautiful in the conventional sense of the word. What is surprising is that with few exceptions, people just write off the possibility that this artist - recently sharing the bill with Ansel Adams in a major retrospective at the Hayward Gallery in London; with exhibitions in the MoMA in NYC, and the Tate Gallery in London -- isn't worthy of anything more than a dismissive "the pictures suck." It is not elitist and/or snobby to think that great art isn't only the stuff that is immediately accesible. Anyone who has developed an appreciation for Opera or Jazz will know that art sometimes takes education, familiarity, and committment.

I am not asking anyone to like the work, or even to understand it today - just to consider the possibility that there first impressions may be premature.

Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
 
pbleic said:
isn't only the stuff that is immediately accesible. Anyone who has
developed an appreciation for Opera or Jazz will know that art
sometimes takes education, familiarity, and committment.
Click to expand...
Plebic , a note of an aria or a discordant note in a jazz performance if presented in isolation without an explanation of it's context or its meaning has no value whatsoever.

One was only to read the 2nd part of your post after evaluating the pics. You designed your post to trick the viewer and then cant understand the fact that the "isolated" pics were almost universally scorned or dismissed. Esoteric art does not have universal appeal , much the same as some folk who call those that cant eat a bowl of jalepeno peppers and enjoy it , food boors.

What exactly do you expect here , bowing and scraping in thanks for the fact that it has been pointed out that the folk that responded were philistines in your eyes and need to be woken up to "true" art appreciation?

If it does not stir an emotive resposnse in me , its not appealing to me and no one has the right to comment on or put down my or orthers subjective tastes.
--
Rodney Gold

The nicest thing about smacking your head against the the wall is.......The feeling you get when you stop
 
This was posted not as a trick - but to point out that our critiques of others photos are often oriented towards a very conventional view of photography. I thought it might be helpful if people considered other perspectives.

What surprised me is that people were essentially unwilling to even consider that these photos might be worth exploring. Not even curiosity.

Go figure.

--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
 
I have appreciation for your ability, technique and visualization in that painting , It does not suit my personal taste or decor , but think it will sell in the right market. I wish I were able to paint or play an instrument and am envious of you for that.

If I were to have to choose between your painting and one of those photos as an item I would have to sell to the general public , It would be a no brainer choice for me , the chances of selling your painting would be order's of magnitude higher for me as I can see many markets for your piece.

--
Rodney Gold

The nicest thing about smacking your head against the the wall is.......The feeling you get when you stop
 
I recognize the tricycle shot. If that had been in the first post I would have gotten it right off the bat. Thanks for waking up a few brain cells.
Wolff
pbleic said:
I expected some of you to recognize this, and some to be more
appreciative about it. Honestly, all - Eggleston is "... widely
regarded as the leading and most influential color photographer of
the 20th century."

He is not just about 1976. He is 65 today and still active. Here
is a recent work from 1996:



and here is his most famous work:



Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
Click to expand...
--
'Nobody can forget the sound.'- Michele Mouton
 
I agree, it was interesting. Though to be fair they were taken out of context, nonetheless it makes you appreciate how technically focused these forums can be.

Nigel
--
Pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/sgidude
pbleic said:
This was posted not as a trick - but to point out that our
critiques of others photos are often oriented towards a very
conventional view of photography. I thought it might be helpful if
people considered other perspectives.

What surprised me is that people were essentially unwilling to even
consider that these photos might be worth exploring. Not even
curiosity.

Go figure.

--
Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
Click to expand...
 
pbleic said:
I think you hit the nail on the head. Eggleston created a view of
America that is stunning - uncomfortable to look at (see the man
with the gun, above), garish, cheap, and snapshot like. However,
when you flip through one of his books you are left with a definite
perspective on American life. It is very different from the pretty
view you might get from America 24/7 that is so popular today. It
is more like reading a short story. His photos have an impact on
the viewer.

This reminds me of something a relative said to me. She is a
fairly well known artist, and I was anxioius to show her my photos
online. She looked at them and appreciated that some of them were
nice, but said cryptically "Eventually you will figure out what you
are taking pictures of" or something like that. What I think she
meant is that eventually I might develop a theme and purpose and
style to my photography. This is what distinguishes most of us
amateurs and commercial pro photographers from photographic
artists. When you view their pictures it is more like viewing an
artist from a period. You can see the evolution of their
photography over the years - the gradual emergence and exploration
of themes. I don't think I ever will develop this; but now at least
I think about it once in a while.

--
Paul
Click to expand...
And you figured out a way to make some of us think about it too. When I went to art school we (us students and faculty) were as a whole not as concerned about technical details as we were about trying to find that theme or purpose. Later I went through periods of thinking the technical aspects were the key, but now I can really appreciate some of the thinking we did way back then when the art was more important and the technique was just a means.
Wolff
 
is that no matter who took the photographs . . .technically I do not like them. The power lines are distracting and I find nothing artistic about them. I'm taking nothing away from the "artist" but these are not his best works . . .in MY opinion. I believe anyone near a city could walk out, hold the camera at waist level and match these . . .and if they post it, it's "nothing special" but if your artist posts them, "it's art" . . .I don't (and won't ) buy it.
--
Claude Adams
'Semper Fi'
http://members.cox.net/adams.photo
http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/23931.html

New to the EOS 300D Digital Rebel? Check the FAQ's . . . http://www.marius.org/eos300dfaq.php
 
Point well taken - I won't be so close-minded to your rebuttal! But I wasn't referring to the well thought out opinions themselves as much as the preponderence of quick, negative responses. That's what I was referring to by "close-minded responses" - they seemed to rapidly disallow any other possibility. I had no judgements that they "didn't appreciate what they were looking at" - don't restate my words. I didn't mean to say anyone had to appreciate it. "Close-minded" was too strongly worded, but jeez people, don't over analyze what's said in a rapid, off-the-cuff posting.
Wild-Mike said:
I wasn't going to comment because the post was so ridiculous in
calling those who didn't appreciate what they were looking at
"close-mnded". An oxymoron for sure.
Click to expand...
 
I agree whole-heartedly. And I think it's a cop-out to say that you have to see these in the right context to appreciate them. What context? They do absolutely nothing for me - the indifference is overwhelming. I just can't see anything creative about them - they're just boring snapshots that anyone could have taken from a $3 disposible camera. Why celebrate that?

And the idea that this "art" shared a gallery recently with Ansel Adams?? (as was mentioned earlier in this thread). How can you even compare the two? Every one of Adams works can be appreciated on its own. Complete photographic morons can pick up any one of his pictures, without knowing any special kind of qualifying "context", and appreciate what a masterful picture it is.

If this is art, then I'm happy to remain artistically ignorant. I'll keep shooting the pictures that move me and leave junk like this to the "enlightened".

Chris
Adnauseam said:
is that no matter who took the photographs . . .technically I do
not like them. The power lines are distracting and I find nothing
artistic about them. I'm taking nothing away from the "artist" but
these are not his best works . . .in MY opinion. I believe anyone
near a city could walk out, hold the camera at waist level and
match these . . .and if they post it, it's "nothing special" but if
your artist posts them, "it's art" . . .I don't (and won't ) buy it.
--
Claude Adams
'Semper Fi'
http://members.cox.net/adams.photo
http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/23931.html
New to the EOS 300D Digital Rebel? Check the FAQ's . .
. http://www.marius.org/eos300dfaq.php
Click to expand...
 
All of us need to be "told" what is art - most of our views of arts were not with us when we were born. In childhood and school we artificially learn what is good, and what is not, what is art and what is not.

These photos do suck according to conventional definition of art most of us learned.

But I like to keep my mind open to other views.
JackHHHH said:
A discription of Egglestons work from The Encyclopedia of Photography

Eggleston forced attention by exaggerating the ungraceful seeing
and falsely "real" color of amateur 35mm slide photography. In
effect, visual shouting made audiences confront the lack of beauty
or style in the snapshots and the contemporary environment that
they were accustomed to accepting without notice. It was the
snapshot aesthetic used with a nonviolent vengeance, and the echoes
of the attack have not died.

he took big pictures of the world we choose to shut out of our
minds... what a genius if only I had thought to sell my crappy pics
as art and not crappy pics.

This guy truley lived the american dream... get rich of selling
cheap stuff.
Click to expand...
 
I understand your point and I guess close-minded was a poor choice of words. Anyway, I have looked at the photos and as stand alone photos and I really don't see art that "I" would regard as appealing or moving. In fact I don't see anything that is artistic except for the tricycle photo. Had they been taken today by an amature photographer I would venture to say the person would have an extremely difficult time getting them into an art gallery.

Now, take a look at the following link for color photos from the 50's. These photos are what I consider artistic and have a lot of meaning. A friend of mine dug up some old slides taken by his father-in-law.
http://www.earlwaggoner.com

Regards,
Mike
M Irwin said:
Wild-Mike said:
I wasn't going to comment because the post was so ridiculous in
calling those who didn't appreciate what they were looking at
"close-mnded". An oxymoron for sure.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
300D Gallery:
http://tkis.com/wild-mike/

Joy in looking and comprehending is nature's most beautiful gift. -- Albert Einstein

 
Daniella,

This reminded me discussion of your blured bobcat chase picture.

Was it a good work according to typical standards? No, it was total waste. "I have seen similar topic done by other photographers with much better creativity"

Was it an intersting picture nevertheless? Yes, I've found it interesting. It gave me some feeling of speed and chase. I don't know why.

I look at these pictures the same way - are they good pictures according to typical standards we all learned? Of course not, total waste too.

Do you feel photographer's mood and impression he wanted to give? Yes, they do very good.

Obviously, he was not creating a pretty picture. He created an ultra realistic view. Does it make it worthless?
Daniella said:
as for those, I really don't consider it a good work because I have
seen similar topic done by other photographers with much better
creativity. Those look like snapshots and anyone of us can do
better than that I am sure :)
pbleic said:
These are the works of one of our greatest living photographers -
William Eggleston. He is a photo essayist of American life. They
are more likely to be found in a major art museum than in a gallery.

I post these, because I am sure that many in this forum will have
come to a different conclusion having looked at the photos without
this information. Many of us are (and I will include myself) are
quick to comment on photos posted in this forum, and make
suggestions about composition, white balance, color saturation,
etc. Perhaps we are more oriented towards a conventional view of
photography and art. I know that looking at Eggleston's work, and
that of others like Atget, etc. has helped me to expand my thinking
about what a great photograph is.

Hope you don't mind me sharing. Sorry if you were fooled.

Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
Click to expand...
--
I am not an English native speaker!
Please email me at [email protected] for questions
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918
Click to expand...
 
LazarWolfe said:
If this is art, then I'm happy to remain artistically ignorant.
I'll keep shooting the pictures that move me and leave junk like
this to the "enlightened".

Chris
Click to expand...
I agree whole heartedly Chris. I'd rather be labled a close minded ignoramus than call the 4 posted pics "art". Now if pbleic had posted the photo of the gentelman with the revolver in his hand I would have been much more inclined to think "art" or "theme" or "evolution of an artist" Or "Eggleston's blue period". But the 4 examples posted are plain and simple snapshots, pehaps taken out of context of a photo essay or something like that. But as 4 unrelated images posted on a photography site they are pure schlock.

--

Photography has suprisingly little to do with cameras; but indeed almost everything to do with the person behind the camera.
 
Those are truly remarkable. I can't really describe what they emote but they're sure doing a lot of it! They're kinda like production stills from "The Searchers" or a diorama from a museum or Disneyland set of 40 years ago. So 3D. That's the coolest thing I've seen in this forum to date - thanks!
Wild-Mike said:
I understand your point and I guess close-minded was a poor choice
of words. Anyway, I have looked at the photos and as stand alone
photos and I really don't see art that "I" would regard as
appealing or moving. In fact I don't see anything that is artistic
except for the tricycle photo. Had they been taken today by an
amature photographer I would venture to say the person would have
an extremely difficult time getting them into an art gallery.

Now, take a look at the following link for color photos from the
50's. These photos are what I consider artistic and have a lot of
meaning. A friend of mine dug up some old slides taken by his
father-in-law.
http://www.earlwaggoner.com

Regards,
Mike

Click to expand...
 
I wasn't "fooled"...My opinion of the photos was not changed after you mentioned the photographer....I still think they won't sell.
pbleic said:
These are the works of one of our greatest living photographers -
William Eggleston. He is a photo essayist of American life. They
are more likely to be found in a major art museum than in a gallery.

I post these, because I am sure that many in this forum will have
come to a different conclusion having looked at the photos without
this information. Many of us are (and I will include myself) are
quick to comment on photos posted in this forum, and make
suggestions about composition, white balance, color saturation,
etc. Perhaps we are more oriented towards a conventional view of
photography and art. I know that looking at Eggleston's work, and
that of others like Atget, etc. has helped me to expand my thinking
about what a great photograph is.

Hope you don't mind me sharing. Sorry if you were fooled.

Paul

------------------------------------------------
Pbase supporter
Photographs at: http://www.pbase.com/pbleic/photos
--------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 All rights reserved.
Click to expand...
--




http://www.pbase.com/natalia
 
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