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Let me say it again: No doubt Nikon is the leader after all

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ron mcmillan said:
The whole 'X Co is better than Y Co' rant game is inherently
stupid, as are most of its rabid adherents, here and elsewhere.

There is no shortage of trolls out there, for sure -- but equally,
no shortage of troll bait snappers happy to fight their stupid
battles for them.

rm
avi said:
I started this phrase when the d2h came out . and Now i think i can
repeat it again with confidence , , not a gimmiky leader but a well
thought and planned camera leader who takes its time before coming
out with the next item, obviously the dx line is here to stay for
the forseeble future ,and why not , the FF might come out but who
will really need it , The professionals who need very big files and
very sophisticated peripheral gear that go with it ,,,,, LF
printers etc,,
I am ready now for DSLR..
--
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Ron I've written a reply to your last message , but it didnt go up so I am writing again , so in case the first comes out later on forgive me , Also forgive me for starting this maybe , as you say stupid thing> , maybe you are right but the fact that you dont agree with what I think , does not mean that I am a troll (BTW I did participate later on under the name avinoam = avi , the one is at the office the other at home ). I just wanted to express my personal subjective thoughts to a technological viz camera Topic, and not to offend anyone . As you Could see people understood my intention differently and I must say that I learnt new things from peoples' thoughts on the matter . that what its all about learning and growing isnt it? Anyway great and exciting times for us photographers. >
avis
 
avi said:
I started this phrase when the d2h came out . and Now i think i can
repeat it again with confidence , , not a gimmiky leader but a well
thought and planned camera leader who takes its time before coming
out with the next item, obviously the dx line is here to stay for
the forseeble future ,and why not , the FF might come out but who
will really need it , The professionals who need very big files and
very sophisticated peripheral gear that go with it ,,,,, LF
printers etc,,
I am ready now for DSLR..
--
avis
Click to expand...
--Who gives a rat's ass which camera company is "the leader"?

deecy//
 
Hi Avi,

Sorry for not spotting that you'd posted again under a slightly longer name. If I'd realised that, I would certainly not have pointed the ugly 'troll' finger at you.

Unfortunately, many participants in these forums are highly intolerant of any thoughts that don't coincide exactly with their own, and nothing, apparently, gets blood boiling faster than a poster declaring that manufacturer X is better than manufacturer Y in ANY way whatsoever.

The malicious mass outpourings are very discouraging, I know -- and reached an all-time low recently when, after the operator/owner of another website praised a certain Sony camera as being a very useful practical tool, his views were met with vitriolic insults that questioned his sanity as well as his probity. So then he had the temerity to get angry about people wondering aloud whether he was crazy, insane, alcoholic, on drugs or in the pay of Sony Corporation, and he returned, in actually the most measured terms under the circumstances, one or two digs at the measurebators and pixel counters -- that cued multiple threads calling him all sorts of new things -- and a new 'debate' denouncing his website and declaring that this one was SO much better anyway. Pathetic, for sure.

ron
avinoam said:
Member said:
Member said:
--
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Ron I've written a reply to your last message , but it didnt go up
so I am writing again , so in case the first comes out later on
forgive me , Also forgive me for starting this maybe , as you say
stupid thing> , maybe you are right but the fact that you dont agree
with what I think , does not mean that I am a troll (BTW I did
participate later on under the name avinoam = avi , the one is at
the office the other at home ). I just wanted to express my
personal subjective thoughts to a technological viz camera Topic,
and not to offend anyone . As you Could see people understood my
intention differently and I must say that I learnt new things from
peoples' thoughts on the matter . that what its all about learning
and growing isnt it? Anyway great and exciting times for us
photographers. >
avis
Click to expand...
 
avinoam said:
Nikon IMO makes top class cameras for ordinary and high end
professional creative amateurs who want to take photographs at
affordable costs
Click to expand...
Historically, Nikon has never been the "affordable cost" leader, for high end professionals or creative amateurs. That distinction has usually fallen on Canon. The recently introduced D70 is really a break-through for Nikon in that it actually offers better value than many other available cameras. But look everywhere else, and Nikon has typically been priced higher compared to Canon's exact equivalent product. This is most notable in lenses, where Nikon's lenses are consistently priced higher than Canon's. Only recently have we seen the price of Nikon's lenses and accessories creep down to the level of Canon's lenes and accessories. As for camera bodies, for quite some time, the D100 was priced at $1700 while the newer and better spec'd 10D was priced at $1500. And the 300D still offers the most affordable entry into DSLR photography, with a body and lens being under $1000, whereas the D70 body and lens costs $1300. No doubt, we'll now see the 300D price drop even more, as well as the 10D price, too.
Member said:
Canon ,its true, makes terrific gear but their market strategy ,
and thats how i see it, is different. They come out very often with
the latest and greatest keeping us hiped up , look how often they
put new d's on the market , d30 d60 d10 , , which at the end of the
day all are basically the same,
Click to expand...
You seem to forget that each new introduction (D30, D60, 10D) has come with improvements plus a considerable price reduction, driving down costs in the market. For example, D30 at 3MP ~$2900 in 2000 (at the time, the cheapest DSLR on the market), then the D60 at 6mp ~$2000, then 10D at 6MP with new magnesium body and other improvements ~$1500. If it weren't for the 10D, the D100 would have probably stayed at its original $2000 price for quite a while longer. And even when it did drop in price, the D100 only initially dropped to $1700.
Member said:
, First to come out with the FF wow
thats a leader .. but who can afford it, and who actually needs
it,very few and techno minded ???
Click to expand...
...err, professionals who make a living off of photography, for example? Better to offer the option than not offer it at all (like Nikon). You see, we in the real world actually believe in freedom of choice, freedom of options, freedom to select the tools that we find best suits our needs. We don't care too much for people who dictate to us what me may or may not need. You can only speak for yourself. But when you speak for others ("...who actually needs it, very few and techno minded...") you just sound like a fool.
Member said:
and then they come out with a
striped off d300, at apperently low price , sorry to say but did
you hold it in your hand? did you see its specs? , 900 $, give me a
break , should have been a 400$ at most ,
Click to expand...
Well, it may very well drop to that price. But for it's time, $900 for the 300D was still a whopping $600 cheaper than the next lowest prices 6mp DSLR.
Member said:
Nikon takes its time , they revolutionized photography with their
d1 and then went on slowly for the next generation , My friend, we
have come to a stage that we have enough pixels , at least for most
creative photographers , there are other things to improve , they
came out with d2h , and what focusing and reaction speed , not more
pixels. Sure, some people will need those extra pixels ,and they
will come out with one . while canon was going for the FF . and
everyone was wondering whats hapening to nikon ,, nikon new it has
to be leader for those really creative photographers , not
computer freaks ,, they know what is really important for a
photographer , not the camera but ,,,,well come on you know what i
mean ..., a good lens, suitable for the these sensors which have a
problem, they need special glass to direct that ray of light staigh
on to the sensor , so they came out with the dx lenses . almost
full range now . canon now realises that there is nothing wrong
with 1.5 (1.6) crop and immediately set foot with a lens like that
(also tamron and sigma BTW) I can go on and on with this...
You see you have all sorts of leaders- those that jump and trout
backward and forward (good for short term business strategy),, and
then you have that slower leader who guides you safely and surely
to the promised land and future. - this is the kind of leader I was
refering to in saying that nikon is the leader - .
sorry about this lengthy story , but i had to spell it out ,
actually to explain myself why I am in love with nikon .
Click to expand...
Jeez, you speek of Nikon as if it were a religion:"...guides you safely and surely to the promised land and future...!!!!!" Give us a break. You obviously are blinded by your Nikon religion and you can't see straight.
 
T3 said:
Jeez, you speek of Nikon as if it were a religion:"...guides you
safely and surely to the promised land and future...!!!!!" Give us
a break. You obviously are blinded by your Nikon religion and you
can't see straight.
Click to expand...
THIS from the man with the Canon shrine in his back yard!

Go and say three "HAIL CANONs" and come back tomorrow.

You really crack me up, Peter.

--
Jamie

http://homepage.mac.com/sitehost/penrithfire
 
What the hell are you talking about? If you have particular points or counterpoints to make, please do. Do you agree or disagree with avioam's characterizations, please say. I have yet to hear of anyone characterize any other brand as the "leader who guides you safely and surely
to the promised land and future. - this is the kind of leader I was

refering to in saying that [insert brand name here] is the leader." I've heard plenty of people lay down concrete, evidence-based arguments regarding why they feel one particular brand has the edge over another, but what 'avioam' writes is mainly just party-line, boiler-plate rhetoric. Hopefully, someone like yourself, Jamie, can speak a little more sensibly and respectably on the matter, if you are so inclined. Please enlighten us, without the degrading mudslings, personal jabs, and schoolyard childish taunts that often reveal lesser minds for what they are.
 
From a financial standpoint, I can't. That is what I meant, I should have been more clear. :)

korvus

: : Kodak DX6490 : :
peteb said:
Remember SLR users (often) spend much, much more per lens than on
your whole camera.

that is not a statement to slight your camera, they are fully
different tools. You cannot compare the two, so don't see this as
a bigger than yours or anything, just a different.
korvus said:
korvus

: : Kodak DX6490 : :
Don Van Patten said:
My Thoughts,

Don
Jan Erik Stokke said:
Wake up, this is not a football game! Why do you have to defend a
company in general? The companies make some great cameras, other -
not so great. They have different pros and cons: One has image
noise, the other has PF, one has long shutter lag, low battery life
and so on. (Hm, only cons!).

As to the Nikon/Canon discussion - owners of Nikon equipment should
praise Canon for making some competition and vice versa. This
competition keeps the companies improving their products.

And what the heck if one camera is better than the other - in a
couple of years they will all be obsolete anyway.

I´ll buy a Canon, Nikon, Minolta, Pentax, Sony, Olympus or whatever
camera that best suits my needs at the time of purchase.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
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deecy// said:
avi said:
I started this phrase when the d2h came out . and Now i think i can
repeat it again with confidence , , not a gimmiky leader but a well
thought and planned camera leader who takes its time before coming
out with the next item, obviously the dx line is here to stay for
the forseeble future ,and why not , the FF might come out but who
will really need it , The professionals who need very big files and
very sophisticated peripheral gear that go with it ,,,,, LF
printers etc,,
I am ready now for DSLR..
--
avis
Click to expand...
--Who gives a rat's ass which camera company is "the leader"?

deecy//
Click to expand...
actually it could be worth considering buying from the leader as ther is a chance their products will be around longer than from #18 on the market ...
 
I used to work for Yoshi Okomoto in the White House for Time-Life. He was LBJ's photographer. He shot everything with 2 old Nikon S2 or SP cameras. Eddie Adam won a Pulitzer with a Nikon F with a pentaprism(no meter). They never ridiculed each others cameras - they only commended each other's talent and photographs.

Van Gogh never compared his brand of brushes to Gaughin's. Cezanne never purported to have the newest oils to Degas.

Just load your cameras with film or memory cards and go outside and take pictures. I guess its easier for me in WARM BEAUTIFUL Key Biscayne.
matt said:
deecy// said:
avi said:
I started this phrase when the d2h came out . and Now i think i can
repeat it again with confidence , , not a gimmiky leader but a well
thought and planned camera leader who takes its time before coming
out with the next item, obviously the dx line is here to stay for
the forseeble future ,and why not , the FF might come out but who
will really need it , The professionals who need very big files and
very sophisticated peripheral gear that go with it ,,,,, LF
printers etc,,
I am ready now for DSLR..
--
avis
Click to expand...
--Who gives a rat's ass which camera company is "the leader"?

deecy//
Click to expand...
actually it could be worth considering buying from the leader as
ther is a chance their products will be around longer than from #18
on the market ...
Click to expand...
 
Harvey Trautenberg said:
Van Gogh never compared his brand of brushes to Gaughin's. Cezanne
never purported to have the newest oils to Degas.

Just load your cameras with film or memory cards and go outside and
take pictures. I guess its easier for me in WARM BEAUTIFUL Key
Biscayne.
matt said:
deecy// said:
avi said:
I started this phrase when the d2h came out . and Now i think i can
repeat it again with confidence , , not a gimmiky leader but a well
thought and planned camera leader who takes its time before coming
out with the next item, obviously the dx line is here to stay for
the forseeble future ,and why not , the FF might come out but who
will really need it , The professionals who need very big files and
very sophisticated peripheral gear that go with it ,,,,, LF
printers etc,,
I am ready now for DSLR..
--
avis
Click to expand...
--Who gives a rat's ass which camera company is "the leader"?

deecy//
Click to expand...
actually it could be worth considering buying from the leader as
ther is a chance their products will be around longer than from #18
on the market ...

Harvey , you are so right, the important thing is the photograph and not the gear, thats what i meant when I said that nikon is the leader for photographers and not for technologists, Canon is a bit more advanced technology-wise , BTW - reading through this site , which I enjoy very much ,I think its more tehnical than from athetics of photography, for that you have other excellent sites , where people discuss photography per se,less on gear issues. I have gained lots of knowledge in this forum , concerning photographic gear which I am grateful.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Which one, what the resale value?
korvus said:
korvus

: : Kodak DX6490 : :
peteb said:
Remember SLR users (often) spend much, much more per lens than on
your whole camera.

that is not a statement to slight your camera, they are fully
different tools. You cannot compare the two, so don't see this as
a bigger than yours or anything, just a different.
korvus said:
korvus

: : Kodak DX6490 : :
Don Van Patten said:
My Thoughts,

Don
Jan Erik Stokke said:
Wake up, this is not a football game! Why do you have to defend a
company in general? The companies make some great cameras, other -
not so great. They have different pros and cons: One has image
noise, the other has PF, one has long shutter lag, low battery life
and so on. (Hm, only cons!).

As to the Nikon/Canon discussion - owners of Nikon equipment should
praise Canon for making some competition and vice versa. This
competition keeps the companies improving their products.

And what the heck if one camera is better than the other - in a
couple of years they will all be obsolete anyway.

I´ll buy a Canon, Nikon, Minolta, Pentax, Sony, Olympus or whatever
camera that best suits my needs at the time of purchase.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Click to expand...
 
toughluck said:
You just have to love those pompous freaks like you. Wonderful, as
far as it can be seen, there is no world outside Canon, Nikon and
Sony, right???
What about Minolta? What about Fuji??? What about their 'prosumer'
digital cameras???
Click to expand...
....... the Minolta 9000, a neat compact totally professional camera, let down by poor AF in the cold (it stopped at anything below 3 degrees) and poor electronics which I dubbed the Bermuda Triangle, Minolta are not alone in this, the electronics are the hardest part to ‘toughen’ without actually using military grade toughened components.
 
Obviously .... the photgrapher makes the photo not the camera ...

all the computers in the camera cant do more than picking a shutter/aperture combination, that is something one can do themselfes ....

Still ... you might want to invest in a system which will be on the market in 2 years so that you can get spare parts, reoairs or new lenses
Harvey Trautenberg said:
Van Gogh never compared his brand of brushes to Gaughin's. Cezanne
never purported to have the newest oils to Degas.

Just load your cameras with film or memory cards and go outside and
take pictures. I guess its easier for me in WARM BEAUTIFUL Key
Biscayne.
matt said:
deecy// said:
avi said:
I started this phrase when the d2h came out . and Now i think i can
repeat it again with confidence , , not a gimmiky leader but a well
thought and planned camera leader who takes its time before coming
out with the next item, obviously the dx line is here to stay for
the forseeble future ,and why not , the FF might come out but who
will really need it , The professionals who need very big files and
very sophisticated peripheral gear that go with it ,,,,, LF
printers etc,,
I am ready now for DSLR..
--
avis
Click to expand...
--Who gives a rat's ass which camera company is "the leader"?

deecy//
Click to expand...
actually it could be worth considering buying from the leader as
ther is a chance their products will be around longer than from #18
on the market ...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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